- Location
- Your pantry
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Getting them to the Panama seems the safest bet, and if not, we can simply just cross it over to dock in California. I don't think a pacific republic is in the making.
The Second Reconstruction-A Post-Civil War Kaiserreich USA Quest
- Thread starter Jeeshadow
- Start date
Getting them to the Panama seems the safest bet, and if not, we can simply just cross it over to dock in California. I don't think a pacific republic is in the making.
- Location
- Most likely California
Panama is definitely out of the question. As noted, the Entente will probably take the Canal to keep it out of German control, if our ships are there, things might devolve into a shootout with the British. While Puerto is an option, assuming the ships had enough fuel on board, I would prefer the ships closer to home. Even if they can't travel long distances, they still might prove a force multiplier for defenders if the CSA decides to head south, and even if we scuttle them in port to prevent capture, we might be able to salvage them post-war.
Then again, the guy above me has a point that maybe California is an option, depending on remaining fuel supply. Also I don't know that much about Naval Logistics, so this is strictly based on the locations.
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- Location
- USA
All these fiery arguments about the entente and I just want to see America roll over everyone who basically invaded America during the CW and if the entente helps with that all the better. Also assuming the fleet still has ammo it would prove a serious boon to defending Norfolk given how much naval arty it can put out even without serious fuel supplies. Actually question but just how powerful is the fleet at Norfolk given America never actually entered the war it could be either a massive boon to coastal fighting or largely outdated given it didn't receive much funding?
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Canada is run by Edward. The British exiles have delusions of grandeur. They're going to think they hold all the cards during the civil war. The option even has us forgiving their WW1 debt to us, even if they reclaim their homeland. What happens after the civil war when we decide to focus on rebuilding instead of preparing for war? Canada can't threaten us, but under Edward they can and will act like petulant children.
We're aware we won't be a Canadian protectorate but I don't think Edward is aware of that fact. The Entente option explicitly has America committing to forgiving debts and planning to take retake Europe as part of the deal in the third option. They clearlysmell blood in the water and want major concessions. Yeah we can probably renege on it once we win, but that's bad faith diplomacy that'd hurt our standing and send mixed messages to the country.
Canada is always going to fall into America's sphere anyway. There's no need to do it on their terms. That's what the middle option is for of course, get Canadian support now without joining the Entente.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
This is explicitly an Edward that allowed the democratic government to elect someone not fully in his camp, this isn't insane revanchist version of him.
Scrapknight507
Consul of Baekdu
- Location
- Somewhere, Beyond the Sea
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While I think the debate has been well-argued by all my fellows, I think there is one clear choice:
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
These are the facts: we have already delayed long enough and put ourselves in a precarious enough position. We failed to act on MacArthur's plans and may not get another opportunity. If we're talking of sending messages to the American people and rallying around the flag, we are already evacuating to Denver. Lincoln, in the darkest hours of the First Civil War, did not have to do anything like this. These are dire times. I deeply understand the counterargument - I have no love for the Entente either - but the choice is between something distasteful and the possible end of the Republic. The deal as negotiated will prevent the worst case scenario - others have briefed us well on the catastrophe that would ensue if we lost New England - without binding us to the dangerous dreams of the British exiles. But if it comes to it, and the deal as it stands will not be approved by the President and the Secretary of State...
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
I do not like this option. I do not want to send some of our boys to die for the last gasps of old Europe. But it is better than resigning every single of us to Reed's guillotine or Long's gallows. I hope my compatriots will see reason and take the deal as it stands. But I would rather have a United States of America involved in the world than a world without the United States of America.
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
These are the facts: we have already delayed long enough and put ourselves in a precarious enough position. We failed to act on MacArthur's plans and may not get another opportunity. If we're talking of sending messages to the American people and rallying around the flag, we are already evacuating to Denver. Lincoln, in the darkest hours of the First Civil War, did not have to do anything like this. These are dire times. I deeply understand the counterargument - I have no love for the Entente either - but the choice is between something distasteful and the possible end of the Republic. The deal as negotiated will prevent the worst case scenario - others have briefed us well on the catastrophe that would ensue if we lost New England - without binding us to the dangerous dreams of the British exiles. But if it comes to it, and the deal as it stands will not be approved by the President and the Secretary of State...
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
I do not like this option. I do not want to send some of our boys to die for the last gasps of old Europe. But it is better than resigning every single of us to Reed's guillotine or Long's gallows. I hope my compatriots will see reason and take the deal as it stands. But I would rather have a United States of America involved in the world than a world without the United States of America.
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- Location
- New York
[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
I do not think that the left wing President Olson, Secretary of State Hull who always held de Gaulle and the Free French movement in disregard, if not detestation for all of WW2 OTL, and General MacArthur who had a strong hostility to the British Empire in the Interwar period OTL would be eager to join the Entente in the context Kaiserreich.
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
I do not think that the left wing President Olson, Secretary of State Hull who always held de Gaulle and the Free French movement in disregard, if not detestation for all of WW2 OTL, and General MacArthur who had a strong hostility to the British Empire in the Interwar period OTL would be eager to join the Entente in the context Kaiserreich.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
Seems like the tally isn't picking up Yun's vote (potentially because he's left his vote rank-style where he's voting for all the options but using numbers to dictate which option he actually wants...)
- Location
- somewhere on this dying planet
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Dude, we're already guaranteed to win the war, this whole quest is about the reconstruction. This option is about whether or not we'll be humoring Edward's fantasies of invading the Isles and imposing the British monarchy along with Petain's apartheid state on the citizens of the UoB and CoF.
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- Location
- NY
We're totally on the ropes here with us losing most of the country and the government relocating so the concessions seem pretty reasonable in exchange for pretty vital help in my opinion. It's nice to talk about the future and if Canada will inevitably be in our sphere or whatever but roleplay wise the admin officials are probably thinking more about whether they should kill themselves before being captured rather than what the future relationship with Canada is.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/They
Ok, I'll remember to add in one more for counter offer then. Or @Yun could repost in the next hour
Scrapknight507
Consul of Baekdu
- Location
- Somewhere, Beyond the Sea
- Pronouns
- He/Him
((while I know this OOC I don't think this would be what the cabinet and Congress would be thinking "in character" and think it's reasonable to vote accordingly
EDIT: yeah andre sums it up exactly))
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- Location
- NY
Well is it "imposing the British monarchy" or is it restoring liberal democracy to Britain under their previous system and destroying an existential enemy to our government that wants to destroy our government? And should we be deciding things purely based on OOC knowledge that the government we are deciding for wouldn't have?
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
I don't think we should treat our victory as a foregone conclusion, even if the quest is supposed to be about the reconstruction process. We can still lose if we make poor choices, otherwise our choices would not have as much meaning if victory was assured 100%. And even if we assume that our victory is supposed to be a guarantee, we could still earn a phyrric victory, one that leaves us very weak and in a dangerous position. We don't have a plan as to how we would win the war alone, which is something I maintain to be at best extremely hard, but most likely impossible because the foreign support the CSA gets will buy them enough time to be able to defeat us easily.
Hopefully Yun manages to amend his post, as that would make the tally situation more clear.
- Location
- somewhere on this dying planet
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given that both the UoB and CoF have perfectly chill democratic governments and have a citizenry that is, for all intents and purposes, perfectly happy with their socialist governments, it is very much the former. And frankly, if people here think Edward and Petain won't start murdering a fuck ton of people the minute their homelands are brought under their control, they're living in a fantasy. People here can talk all they want about how Edward is completely chill with Mackenzie King, but that means approximately fuck all when they start occupying their former homelands and deal with a populace that doesn't want them back. Doubly so with sand France, given that just about all of the paths they can go down are differing degrees of terrible (and even their one "good" path is still built on the graves of thousands of Africans and has the possibility of backfiring should La Rocque gain power).
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Here you go.
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
Because in an ideal world we'd be in a position to not need to do this, but the Union is burning, and foreign powers are throwing gasoline onto the fire. So while the Entente might be second rate compared to those supporting the traitors at the end of the day when you need to fight fire... manpower remains manpower.
Vote closed
[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.
- Location
- USA
From what I remember the international is described as "Revanchist syndicalism powers" nor do we know if the people actually support them all that much?
[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.
I hope this is the right choice.
I hope this is the right choice.
- Location
- Moscow
- Pronouns
- He
[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.
Simply because it is likely to cause the creation of New England, which means there will be a fairly important precedent for US invasion in Canada. There's no point in helping Canada invade Britain if we can arrange it ourselves.
Simply because it is likely to cause the creation of New England, which means there will be a fairly important precedent for US invasion in Canada. There's no point in helping Canada invade Britain if we can arrange it ourselves.
- Location
- Netherlands
@Jeeshadow When you have the opportunity, can we get a Word of God about if we're following KR lore with what the Entente is capable of or not?
Because there is an undercurrent in the arguments against the Entente that come out of a dismissal of the actual KR canon for the sake of what people think should be the case because that suits their political views. Is or isn't Canada a potent political force with a decent army and industry?
Because there is an undercurrent in the arguments against the Entente that come out of a dismissal of the actual KR canon for the sake of what people think should be the case because that suits their political views. Is or isn't Canada a potent political force with a decent army and industry?
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