The Second Reconstruction-A Post-Civil War Kaiserreich USA Quest

I'd be open to the third option if we're allowed to go back on that deal and subsequently tell Edward to get fucked. I'm not up for any sort of diplomatic relations with the Entente if it requires us to get involved in their petty revanchist grudge against the Internationale. The peoples of Britain and France have made it clear they don't want their old governments back, so why should we even humor the exiles' fantasies?

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.


So the International want to kill us and the Reichpakt want to steal our shit, once again I can be convinced otherwise, so I'll wait til the morning...

Speaking of help. @Jeeshadow will we have options in the future to gather our own Volunteers from elsewhere or have we burned a lot of our those bridges already?

If I can't see a consensus I'll flip a coin.

Edit: Nevermind my Freinds have spoken, and I have one reason to get involved, to make them economically dependent on us.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.

Now that New York City is in CSA hands, the Internationale are going to rush to send in volunteers and material aid. The CSA winning the 2ACW is basically the win condition for the Internationale in most Kaiserreich games. The Union State is likely going to receive a lot of lend lease aid from Germany and it's sphere of influence, maybe even some prussian jackboots on the ground. We're going to need all the help we can get to win this war quickly. Our enemies aren't fighting alone and neither should we.

Besides, joining the Entente is a diplomatic coup for us. None of the Entente nations are going to be able to match a reunified America in industry or manpower, we can very well just bully our way into leadership, even taking into account the devastation the Civil War will certainly cause.

So yeah I'm voting to fully involve Canada.

Edit: Added a second option because ranked voting got allowed.

Here's a counterpoint: The Entente are a bunch of imperialist exiles who were kicked out of their respective countries for being douchebags and by taking part in their revanchist fantasies, we'll be reverting Europe back to the old era of royalist dick-measuring. America was (on paper) founded on a complete repudiation of everything the Entente represents, and the we'd be going against the will of the peoples in their respective countries by trying to tear away the possibility of a better world.

I'd be open to this deal if we're given the option of backing out of it later. You said it yourself, none of the Entente can match America in terms of industry or manpower, so what will they be able to do should we decide we don't want to join the Second Weltkrieg when the time comes for doing that? File a formal letter of complaint to our ambassador?

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.

The unfortunate truth of the matter is that the US needs the assistance. But more than that, I suspect that the Entente offer of deploying troops to the Panama Canal and Alaska, and possibly even New England, is less a relief force out of wanting to save the US, and more of a notice of their impending arrival to secure it. After all, they've already taken control of Hawaii to keep it out of their rival's hands. Do you really think they'll allow the Panama Canal to be taken by Germany, or New England's Industry to fall into the Internationale control, regardless of what a heavily weakened US says? If we win, they can apologize and make excuses, if we lose, we're not going to need to hold on them anymore. Either way, they're coming in, no matter what choice we make.

On the other hand, I'm worried what formally joining the Entente would do to our domestic support, since it can be interpreted as forfeitting American Sovereignty for military support. And you can bet the AUS and CSA are going to milk that for all its worth, protraying Olson as bending the knee to foreign Kings, and allowing troops of British Empire to invade America, shooting American citizens in the streets, and undoing a century and a half of history to turn the USA back into a British Colony.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

If we're going centrist, then Edward VIII can go eat shit. The only thing I'm ameable in regards to the Entente is if the US invades Canada.

Never mind when the Second Civil War is over, it's going to be internal reconstruction, isolation, and lots of political shuffling around so the asshats supporting the center instead of going mask-off* can keep their jobs. The USA won't be joining any war for a while to get its house in order.

*Referring to the Dixiecrat loyalists, of course

I know a im pretty late to talk about this

Jeeshadow said:

By the skin of his teeth, Olson had won the Electoral College and thus would become the Thirty-First President of the United States.

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This is fuckin amazing

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

Starblight said:

Here's a counterpoint: The Entente are a bunch of imperialist exiles who were kicked out of their respective countries for being douchebags and by taking part in their revanchist fantasies, we'll be reverting Europe back to the old era of royalist dick-measuring. America was (on paper) founded on a complete repudiation of everything the Entente represents, and the we'd be going against the will of the peoples in their respective countries by trying to tear away the possibility of a better world.

I'd be open to this deal if we're given the option of backing out of it later. You said it yourself, none of the Entente can match America in terms of industry or manpower, so what will they be able to do should we decide we don't want to join the Second Weltkrieg when the time comes for doing that? File a formal letter of complaint to our ambassador?

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Idealistically I agree with you. I'm just formulating my vote in a way that concludes the 2ACW the fastest. Direct involvement of Canada opens up a another front to attack the CSA from the north, that will hopefully take away pressure from the eastern seaboard. The chance to usurp leadership of the Entente is just a bonus. We know they're going to get involved in the 2WK so it's a bonus if we can influence them. Not to mention that the Entente as an alliance would be economically dependent on the USA to fund any war effort.

I'm hoping there's an option to back out of the deal. Not having one just makes us really diplomatically rigid. We have no idea how long the 2ACW will take and there is an argument that America would be too devastated to get involved with the 2WK (real or not).

I also just thought of this but refusing to support the Entente against the other factions in any way would make our future geopolitical situation tense, no matter who wins the 2nd Weltkrieg, because I doubt the Entente is going to succeed all on their own. The monarchist Reichspakt would see the USA as a definite threat to their global empire. The Internationale would hate us for defeating their syndicalist brothers in the CSA. The Japanese Co-Prosperity Sphere will not accept American influence back into the Pacific or the Philippines. We have no idea what the other major nations like Austria or Russia are doing so we can't rely on friends there. I really feel like accepting the deal or counter-offering is the right play here unless the thread decides we're just going full isolationist and keeping everyone out of the Americas.

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

The way I see it Washington or Denver now is basically setting sights for bombing London, Paris, Berlin, and Tokyo after the Second Civil War. No matter what America will see why they need to secure global hegemony to destroy the old empires and forge a new world order. I'm very much going to wonder how punitive America will be on Europe and Asia. I'm pretty sure Iceland and Ireland will be great areas to bomb Britain, France, and Germany. An island hopping campaign to regain the Pacific, the Philippines, and the Legation cities will be executed and a full war economy to ensure the rest of the Americas know who holds the leash in this relationship as well as making sure Brazil knows its place. Africa will need more anti-colonialist struggles of the American persuasion to ensure hegemony in Africa. We need a lot more propaganda to destroy the empires of Marx and Bismarck after rebuilding.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

We're almost certainly going to retaliate for syndicalist and German meddling anyways and other parties jumping at the chance to gain foreign support to the tune of large-scale military deployments provides an adequate propaganda smokescreen against the opposition and justification for our base. This far deep into the war I'm not confident nationalist flag-waving will peel off insurrectionists. New England is also a concern; while they haven't left the US yet I'd like to keep it that way. Ending the war as quickly as possible is critical to reducing how many casualties in men and material the country as a whole suffers, and swallowing pride is an acceptable price to pay. Of particular interests is the entente's navy, which when combined with ours could interdict foreign support, or at least make them work in order to deploy forces here.

mid term, the US will be devastated by the war and having parties vested in our reconstruction, even if it only means granting trade with them, will obviously be helpful.

Long term, the rival powers must be destroyed for unproductive meddling in American domestic affairs, and the entente powers may well be at minimum somewhat dependent on the US to survive; beyond the potential even a damaged US obviously offers to reconquest of France and Great Britain, said lands will also be devastated by war, and maintaining a grip on their colonies will be…taxing. We could then either make them further dependent on US support by propping the Entente up, or do what OTL US did and push for decolonization to weaken them. We also have grudges to settle in Japan, and with this much enemies it would help to have overseas staging grounds and actual allies.

This decision became easy the moment everyone else looked to foreign support. If they didn't then yeah we'd be alone in looking like foreign lapdogs, but thankfully everyone's dirty. This will have knock-on effects to the American psyche, but so will allowing the war to last far longer than it should.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

Guys, now is not the time to be idealogically choosy. We are in a death struggle for our Republic right now, with international aid coming from European powers. In these circumstances, taking the full weight of the Canadian military, in exchange for an alliance later, is well worth the price. Winston Churchill teamed up with Stalin, we should swallow Eddy pretty easily.

Earl Warren said:

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

Guys, now is not the time to be idealogically choosy. We are in a death struggle for our Republic right now, with international aid coming from European powers. In these circumstances, taking the full weight of the Canadian military, in exchange for an alliance later, is well worth the price. Winston Churchill teamed up with Stalin, we should swallow Eddy pretty easily.

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Plus: From a Geo political and American Feelings standpoint, this is very much in our interest. The Union of Britian and Commune have proven their hostile intentions to us, sending armies in the thousands to aid rebels and kill loyalists. They didn't have to do this, if they were worried about our reaction if we won, they wouldn't have done this. We have no gurantee that they won't act in an egregiously hostile manner again. And then there's feelings. These folks sent thousands of people to kill loyal Americans and put their freinds in charge, likely including participating in any atrocities which happen behind the line. Pardon me, but I think an awful lot of Americans would feel pretty good marching into London and dragging the Syndie flag down.

As fun as my Windsor Restoration game was in KR, I'm afraid I will have to side with:

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

Failing that, I'll go with the moderate option that acknowledges the reality of the Brits entering New England:

[X] Recognizing that the Federals needed serious assistance, the Cabinet had accepted the offer and the agreement would be signed by Olson and Hull.

Earl Warren said:

Guys, now is not the time to be idealogically choosy.

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But this is not a question of ideology. The Federals coming to be subservient out to the British Crown of all things, will be a propaganda godsend to both our rivals. Note that our military is already bleeding men to Long's reactionaries and Reed's revolutionaries. Because coups succeed on momentum, openly subordinating the country to the Entente will deal a fatal blow to Olson's muscular Federalism. Our legitimacy is so shaky that this may well be catastrophic.

I'm afraid we must be the 'America #1!' cheerleader in this country and make our rivals seem like the ones who want to subjugate the country to foreign interests. We'll figure out post-war diplomacy after the war, right now our focus ought to be on clowning on the AUS and CSA.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

[X] The US would not allow its sovereignty to be trampled on nor be a beggar power, it would win the war and defend its overseas territories on its own.

[X] The Cabinet had a counter offer, formally asking that Canada join the Civil War on their side, launching military operations against the CSA, and in return when the time came to retake the Isles, the US would play an active role, essentially joining the Entente.

Frankly speaking, what faction were we going to join besides the Entente? I know people in the thread have a moral objection to them, but this is not a Syndicalist quest, and the socialist powers are actively arming, funding, and supporting a revolution within our borders, in addition to the Germans. Allying with the Entente only makes sense in order to get back at both and finally garner some actual allies.