Semper Ad Meliora (Code Geass/Britannian Royalty Quest)

I still believe Irish was running from Burkina Faso, or whatever it's called in this quest, and the "my EAU business burned down" is just an excuse.

[x][CCW] You will declare for the Empress
[x][TOA] India
[x][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[x][ARA] Technical Research Staff (Jaeger Expands Psionic Specialties/Organic Experimentation Bonuses)

In regards to the narrative option, remember that it was a 30/60/90 DC. We have good odds of getting a 60 if we try again, but I don't expect we'd get that much more beyond a better amount of money from it. Something different enough to be worth another action is probably locked behind the 90 DC which is still a pretty longshot.

Hawkmoon said:

I'm not sure if this is another instance of quest narrative time travel or something for turn 11 Personal actions. If it is for turn 11 I wonder if a vacation in Area 8 counts since the deal called for either a Personal or Diplomacy action to fulfill it. And if visiting Clovis would also be in line with this due to it being mostly social.

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Narrative Time Travel. Refers back to your personal actions for the turn during the prior phase.

Hawkmoon said:

And now I wonder who got through without being discovered because we waited in constructing the Watchtowers. Hindsight is 20/20.

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I'll talk about this more during the intrigue phase, but the consensus is leaning towards this being a probing operation and no one actually managed to get in, they just set up a low-key observation post nearby and watched what happened to the gullible idiots they hired. This will give them a better idea of what to expect if they (whoever they are) actually attempt to insert into the island later.

Thomasfoolery said:

In regards to the narrative option, remember that it was a 30/60/90 DC. We have good odds of getting a 60 if we try again, but I don't expect we'd get that much more beyond a better amount of money from it. Something different enough to be worth another action is probably locked behind the 90 DC which is still a pretty longshot.

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Unless it falls under the potential SL7 reroll. Since all other characters got a reroll on that perk. Then the chances go up even more.

Hawkmoon said:

Unless it falls under the potential SL7 reroll. Since all other characters got a reroll on that perk. Then the chances go up even more.

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I mean, we might have a diplo action to build up support in court to defend our actions in china or similiar next turn. Depending on a reroll for what is essentially us trying to advertise our business seems premature to me.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Accept +200 Income for the Action.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Accept +200 Income for the Action.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

Most of these are accepted or at least argued better for than I would.

I would like to point out something I don't see considered about the psionic medical corps, though. By doing it we are, functionally, creating a new field for psionics to have jobs in. Even beyond merely creating more jobs and common acceptance for psionics, this creates a new field with new research, new education, etc.

Jaeger's piles more stuff into a general research into psionics, which is important and impressive, this gets us more schools of research and more jobs for people who end up as psionics. While it won't fold directly into Jaeger's research, it should compliment it heavily. Arguably it could help more in the long run for establishing a psionic school.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

Ok, so with the clarifications and arguments made, I'm leaning towards the siblings deciding to become Technical Research Staff for Jaeger. The immediate benefits for the animal/human experimentation without any further investment needed should be quite useful at this juncture as we move to do just that. I don't want the research to stall at bottleneck, and this should tilt the odds slightly more towards our favor, while at the same time raising the chances for crits further enhancing the results. Which would directly feed into expanded opportunities later on.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Technical Research Staff (Jaeger Expands Psionic Specialties/Organic Experimentation Bonuses)

bluefur87 said:

I would like to point out something I don't see considered about the psionic medical corps, though. By doing it we are, functionally, creating a new field for psionics to have jobs in. Even beyond merely creating more jobs and common acceptance for psionics, this creates a new field with new research, new education, etc.

Jaeger's piles more stuff into a general research into psionics, which is important and impressive, this gets us more schools of research and more jobs for people who end up as psionics. While it won't fold directly into Jaeger's research, it should compliment it heavily. Arguably it could help more in the long run for establishing a psionic school.

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I would like to point out that the Jaeger's option actually opens up all of the psionics fields we would get from the two other options, if much more slowly and with more investment. It has been confirmed by Slayer:

Slayer Anderson said:

It would take a lot longer and eat more actions, but yeah, you could theoretically get all of them if you put these two in a research position where you could push them towards dedicated teaching roles.

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bluefur87 said:

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

Most of these are accepted or at least argued better for than I would.

I would like to point out something I don't see considered about the psionic medical corps, though. By doing it we are, functionally, creating a new field for psionics to have jobs in. Even beyond merely creating more jobs and common acceptance for psionics, this creates a new field with new research, new education, etc.

Jaeger's piles more stuff into a general research into psionics, which is important and impressive, this gets us more schools of research and more jobs for people who end up as psionics. While it won't fold directly into Jaeger's research, it should compliment it heavily. Arguably it could help more in the long run for establishing a psionic school.

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Pyschic surgeons are already a known phenomen, so it's not exactly breaking new ground, they are rare though.

Schools of research and broad teaching is pretty clearly more going to stem from Jaeger's tree however.

[x][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[x][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Accept +200 Income for the Action.
[x][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

meianmaru said:

I would like to point out that the Jaeger's option actually opens up all of the psionics fields we would get from the two other options, if much more slowly and with more investment. It has been confirmed by Slayer:

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Thomasfoolery said:

Pyschic surgeons are already a known phenomen, so it's not exactly breaking new ground, they are rare though.

Schools of research and broad teaching is pretty clearly more going to stem from Jaeger's tree however.

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I'm not talking about creating a theoretical scientific body of knowledge. I'm talking about creating a professional and experienced body of knowledge.

I'd expect Jaeger to get new and interesting stuff if he works with the kids, but I'm specifically aiming for a more trained profession that would require, well, professionals to give it foundations.

bluefur87 said:

I would like to point out something I don't see considered about the psionic medical corps, though. By doing it we are, functionally, creating a new field for psionics to have jobs in. Even beyond merely creating more jobs and common acceptance for psionics, this creates a new field with new research, new education, etc.

Jaeger's piles more stuff into a general research into psionics, which is important and impressive, this gets us more schools of research and more jobs for people who end up as psionics. While it won't fold directly into Jaeger's research, it should compliment it heavily. Arguably it could help more in the long run for establishing a psionic school.

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Actually since Jeager has Psionic Teaching Standards under his projects then assigning the siblings under him will actually have an impact on the psionic schooling.
Basically the first two options get us a semi imminent development option in specialized fields with 1-2 actions. Going Intrigue will give us combat medics and better assassins as the healing knowledge spreads among the shinobi. But it will most likely stay under the shinobi and we won't get generic doctors.
The reverse will be for assigning them under Crowley. We get combat medics for our generic forces and psionic doctors for our population. But the knowledge will also stay in that department.
On the other hand if we assign them to Jaeger, in addition to potentially mentally scarring them, we get both development paths in time as their knowledge will be available on the highest level to the person who will be developing the teaching standards. If we don't assign them to him then when the standards are being made he will just keep them to their limited specialty as teachers due to not having the personal knowledge of their specialty.

On the other hand assigning them to Jeager will delay both specialties from being formed. But it was already stated that they won't influence this conflict so there is no need to rush. And with the actions might come sooner than you think as Jeager is only 2 projects away finishing Psionic Computing (which is a prerequisite of Psionic Teaching Standards) and the siblings can help him with that. Psionic medical skills on test subjects plus being available full time to him. It will also help Jeager develop the standards due to having psionics on hand full time without needing to badger Lelouch or Crowley.

EDIT: The biggest problem with Jeager psionic research is that he has the psionic potential of a rock. He compensates by being a mad genius. And asking Lelouch to be his test subject fairly often. Having two psionics on hand full time will really have an impact. As those under Crowley have other projects and Lelouch is very busy.

Hawkmoon said:

Actually since Jeager has Psionic Teaching Standards under his projects then assigning the siblings under him will actually have an impact on the psionic schooling.

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As I pointed out in a later post, I'm after professional and institutional knowledge for the kids so that they can help lay the groundwork for psionic doctors. Medical training is something that takes years of effort in the modern world, so getting them started now would help with that.

Unfortunately, both department heads would scar them...

bluefur87 said:

I'm not talking about creating a theoretical scientific body of knowledge. I'm talking about creating a professional and experienced body of knowledge.

I'd expect Jaeger to get new and interesting stuff if he works with the kids, but I'm specifically aiming for a more trained profession that would require, well, professionals to give it foundations.

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bluefur87 said:

As I pointed out in a later post, I'm after professional and institutional knowledge for the kids so that they can help lay the groundwork for psionic doctors. Medical training is something that takes years of effort in the modern world, so getting them started now would help with that.

Unfortunately, both department heads would scar them...

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These are the same thing in the long run from my understanding from what Slayer said. Thus "taking more time and actions."

Actually, @Slayer Anderson, sorry to ask this again, but can I get further clarification for this to make it clear for everyone? Won't we get an exact same end result with the Jaeger -option for all of the research fields, with just not having two additional hero units in either as Shinobi or Field Medics/Doctors? And instead just doing long-term research and teaching, like you've already pointed out?

bluefur87 said:

As I pointed out in a later post, I'm after professional and institutional knowledge for the kids so that they can help lay the groundwork for psionic doctors. Medical training is something that takes years of effort in the modern world, so getting them started now would help with that.

Unfortunately, both department heads would scar them...

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The difference would be:
They work under Crowley - Dr House level healer works at a single hospital and gives the effects there with potentially some interns getting practical experience under him and getting better.
They work under Jeager - Dr House level healer is teaching at a medical school and passing his knowledge to entire classes while also working on research projects for other departments.
Second option will take longer to have an effect as more are taught but in the end the knowledge is spread farther. The first option will give us improved healing results in a single location immediately.

Our goal in teaching medics is setting up a program to find already educated medical professionals with psionic abilities (with a lower power requirement after psionic amplifer is developed which the siblings can also help with) and teaching them new skills to expand their knowledge. There will be some teaching from scratch but it is less efficient.

I might be influenced by "malicious compliance" reddit threads but institutional knowledge on the lower level can be easily undone by management that lacks practical knowledge and is experimenting. Assigning them to Jaeger will give him that practical knowledge when setting up policy for teaching healers. And he wont have that if they are down the ladder in a different department unless we spend a lot more actions to promote them.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

meianmaru said:

Actually, @Slayer Anderson, sorry to ask this again, but can I get further clarification for this to make it clear for everyone? Won't we get an exact same end result with the Jaeger -option for all of the research fields, with just not having two additional hero units in either as Shinobi or Field Medics/Doctors? And instead just doing long-term research and teaching, like you've already pointed out?

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Hawkmoon said:

The difference would be:
They work under Crowley - Dr House level healer works at a single hospital and gives the effects there with potentially some interns getting practical experience under him and getting better.
They work under Jeager - Dr House level healer is teaching at a medical school and passing his knowledge to entire classes while also working on research projects for other departments.
Second option will take longer to have an effect as more are taught but in the end the knowledge is spread farther. The first option will give us improved healing results in a single location immediately.

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This is grotesquely recontextualizing what I am arguing for to the point where it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall for all that you're responding to my arguments.

I have clarified multiple times that I'm aiming to create professionals that can be turned into teachers that would establish the backbone of a psionic medical practitioner field. This creates its own body of knowledge that is more or less tangential to further development in the field.

Jaeger researches new stuff and the underlining principles of how psionics work and what they can do. What he does not do is create a dozen psionic/medical professionals who will work together to rub out all of the kinks such as calming people down, along with other mundane and nuanced capabilities that require experience to deal with.

I am specifically aiming to create institutional knowledge. That is wildly different than theoretical knowledge and has its own benefits for teaching.

meianmaru said:

These are the same thing in the long run from my understanding from what Slayer said. Thus "taking more time and actions."

Actually, @Slayer Anderson, sorry to ask this again, but can I get further clarification for this to make it clear for everyone? Won't we get an exact same end result with the Jaeger -option for all of the research fields, with just not having two additional hero units in either as Shinobi or Field Medics/Doctors? And instead just doing long-term research and teaching, like you've already pointed out?

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You'll get the chance to develop the same options later on. Receiving the end result will not be automatic, you will have to spend actions, you will have to succeed at them, and they will probably cost more money in the grand scheme of things.

You get to improve your shinobi's skills very quickly with only one action, you get to develop professional psionic healers with only one action, or they become academics that teach their skills over a long period of time and open up extra research options instead.

As a general warning, please keep discussion polite and civil.

Edit: I am going to bed now, I'll try to answer anything that crops up later.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China

bluefur87 said:

This is grotesquely recontextualizing what I am arguing for to the point where it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall for all that you're responding to my arguments.

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I will say I don't really agree with your read of what you argue for, your clarifications do make it more clear what you feel the difference is but I don't really see it leading to where you think it'll end up.

When you talk about this opening a new field of psionic advancement and such. I don't actually think it does nearly as much as you claim it will. A lot of the nitty gritty of the psionic healing profesion already exists. These two psychics know it and so do others throughout the world. Having an established corps might add a certain amount to that body of knowledge due to density, but I don't see it as the sea change you argue for. An established and vetted curriculim seems to me that it would do far more for advancing healing as a widespread psionic career you talk about.

What it won't do is get us psionic healers in the next couple of years. Which to me seems the more relevant loss from not taking the option.

[X][CCW] You will declare for the Empress.
[X][TOA] China
[X][CtN] Reject Completed Action as Insufficient.
[X][ARA] Psionic Medical Corps. (Crowley Develops Field Medics/Doctors with Psionic Bonuses)

@Slayer Anderson Will the update to the SL page include Milly's specialty? Since I don't think it was ever put into a single phrase. In a similar way how Euphy got her specialties written out.
There was a post comparing Euphy, Kaguya and Milly for Diplomacy and Stewardship positions where it was hinted Milly will be military themed when it comes to her projects.