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You Are: A sector admiral of a strained imperium.

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EternalStruggle said:
I think it still serves us to keep perspective on what he's done and why he did it, and move forward trying to make up for all the shit he did eventually.
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Pretty much the same point as I was making.

EternalStruggle said:
You'd be right if we caused that many, but I'm pretty sure we'll only actually kill single digit millions based on what the QM said and the text of the option. Which is still uncomfortably high, but considering the context still reasonable in an anti-planetary military action.
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I read this as those killed in the initial bombardment, which one would expect to be far lower than the numbers who'd die in the weeks and months following the bombardment.

EternalStruggle said:
War has this tendency to get civilians killed no matter what you do, although some actions cause a lot more civilian casualties than others. It's a bit shit like that, yes.
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Yeah, the practical limitations of war suck. It's a big reason why war sucks so bad.

Anyways. Reinhard is a ruthless man in a crapsack world. We totally need to gain more power so we can fix human space up!

fasquardon
 
EternalStruggle said:
I think it still serves us to keep perspective on what he's done and why he did it, and move forward trying to make up for all the shit he did eventually.
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I was under the impression he did it out of a desire to personally empower and enrich himself whatever the cost to others. If he has any desire to "make up for all the shit he did eventually" I sure see no sign of it.
 
Miner249er said:
what is Reinhard reputation among NASP now?
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I'm pretty sure we're at Bogeyman level now. Parents all over NASP space tell their children that dread admiral Reinhard will come for them and their toy spaceships if they don't behave.

And used in their propaganda posters and two minutes hate, carricatured as the greatest evil living in the galaxy.
 
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Briefvoice said:
I was under the impression he did it out of a desire to personally empower and enrich himself whatever the cost to others. If he has any desire to "make up for all the shit he did eventually" I sure see no sign of it.
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Agreed. Let's not pretend we're the good guy here. We're in a crapsack world where the only way to get to the top is on the bodies of your enemies. Show any mercy or make a mistake, and everyone will jump on you
 
Briefvoice said:
I was under the impression he did it out of a desire to personally empower and enrich himself whatever the cost to others. If he has any desire to "make up for all the shit he did eventually" I sure see no sign of it.
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kaeim said:
Agreed. Let's not pretend we're the good guy here. We're in a crapsack world where the only way to get to the top is on the bodies of your enemies. Show any mercy or make a mistake, and everyone will jump on you
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Okay then let's just...

IDK quit?

As in retire. We're rich enough to at this point.

Like, don't call me squeamish. I have done... let's say a lot worse than a few million dead in Quests before for nothing more than shiny loot, or even just for a lark, but in this kinda Quest... eh?

Like it's just depressing and that motivation in these circumstances makes me go "well he doesn't even care about being nationalistic for his own shitty country, maybe he should just die in a ditch painfully."
 
whydoyoubother said:
Agreed.
Not because i agree with the rest, but i agree we have accomplished our goal and unless we are offered a lot more political power there is no need to push it. Know when to cash in the chips and all.
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...um, excuse me?

We really, really haven't accomplished any particular goal beyond being effective on a border sector. Like seriously, some context people.
 
I think House Imperial is hoping that we're in the mold of Corbulo, Agricola or most hopefully a mix between Agrippa and Marcus Furius Camillus rather than Sulla, Gaius Marius or at the worst Julius Caesar.
 
George said:
could you detail exactly what you mean by that?
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All of them (generally) highly decorated warheroes with an army who acted very differently after the outward enemies had been defeated and it was time to return home.
The first 3 were loyalists when push came to shove and did surrender their command (and often timed dictatorship) back towards the authorities.
The latter 3 did not and took power in one form or another by occupying the capital and persecuting political enemies, try a coup when returning after a succesful career or, in caesars case, outright suceeded and changed the political system of rome irreversably after he was done.
 
Briefvoice said:
I was under the impression he did it out of a desire to personally empower and enrich himself whatever the cost to others. If he has any desire to "make up for all the shit he did eventually" I sure see no sign of it.
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The idea is that once we become Emperor we'll make the Empire a shining example of TRUTH and JUSTICETM​

And then Reinhard was a Magical Girl.
 
George said:
could you detail exactly what you mean by that?
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Corbulo and Agricola were excellent Generals who while successful and highly respected never went for the throne. Corbulo committed suicide at the orders of Nero to show his loyalty proclaiming Axios (Greek for I am worthy) while Agricola retired quietly after serving a long term as Governor of Britain.

Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa was the brawn for Octavian's brains. Octavian may have been a political genius but he needed someone who could both win his battles for him and be loyal at the same time. Agrippa was that guy.

Marcus Furius Camillus was a Roman Statesman and General who saved Rome in one of it's darkest hours despite being exiled and pretty much set the standard of what a Roman Nobleman should be. Watch the trailer to Rome 2 Rise of the Republic if you have time.

The later three are pretty easy to look up.
 
Satar said:
The idea is that once we become Emperor we'll make the Empire a shining example of TRUTH and JUSTICETM​

And then Reinhard was a Magical Girl.
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Reinhard isn't a good enough person for that. Besides, an empire like the Imperium is, by its very nature and structure, tyrannical, and any change to that would alter it so dramatically there would be enormous pushback, and result in something so different as to be unrecognizable.

Frankly, the best thing to do would be to tear the whole thing down. But since that's not happening well, playing as a villain is a new and interesting experience for me.
 
Chimeraguard said:
Frankly, the best thing to do would be to tear the whole thing down. But since that's not happening well, playing as a villain is a new and interesting experience for me.
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Are you sure we're a villain here? From the view point of Chuang Mu and the NASP, perhaps, but for our officers and the empire, it's not the case.
And I don't think (but I haven't read all the comments in the thread) we've ever chosen any evil choice; we've done some pragmatic choices (let Imhotep burn to save the engine of our ships), but evil for the sake of evil, I don't think so.

Edit: After a private conversation with Chimeraguard, I think that we're playing a villain, just going by the actions of the players. We crossed that line when we started raiding civilians shipping, threatening destruction to extract a tribute and bombing non military target, all in the pursuit of wealth.

Still it does not bother me and I will continue to follow the quest.
 
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Chimeraguard said:
Reinhard isn't a good enough person for that. Besides, an empire like the Imperium is, by its very nature and structure, tyrannical, and any change to that would alter it so dramatically there would be enormous pushback, and result in something so different as to be unrecognizable.

Frankly, the best thing to do would be to tear the whole thing down. But since that's not happening well, playing as a villain is a new and interesting experience for me.
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:Citation Needed:

FYI, we have a informal truce in this quest regarding what constitutes evil empires and whether or not Reinhard is a villain. We came to this truce after pages and pages of messy, angry, and unfun ruckus between the quest's two factions. Basically: we choose to not have this discussion because everyone and their aunt has a different standard for what passes for morality and for some that is a liberal democracy, for others that is a Napoleonic Empire, etc; and we also have severe disagreements over what constitutes amoral or evil behavior, though none of these disagreements impinges on Rule 2.

So you've got a fruit on the table in front of you, and you can squeeze it if you want, but this is a fruit, that when squeezed, leaks only tar.

baud said:
Are you sure we're a villain here? From the view point of Chuang Mu and the NASP, perhaps, but for our officers and the empire, it's not the case. And I don't think (but I haven't read all the comments in the thread) we've ever chosen a clearly evil choice; we've done some pragmatic choices (let Ihmotep burn to save the engine of our ships), but evil for the sake of evil, I don't think so.
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I agree with you but let's just not engage in this discussion. It really isn't worth it and you can read through the earlier pages if you don't believe me.
 
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Satar said:
I agree with you but let's just not engage in this discussion. It really isn't worth it and you can read through the earlier pages if you don't believe me.
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I didn't know the discussion had already happened, thank you for informing me. I agree with you and will not pursue this discussion further.
 
It does seem like every time the Governor General talks to us about a recent problem he's had with our actions, we leave and come back with a giant win under our belts.

It presents an amusing image.
 
"Yes. Your honor parade was missing a third tuba. Go get another crushing victory to make up for it. "
 
cast2007 said:
He's probably trying to decide whether to kill us or give us a medal, quite possibly both.
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Although since I seem to remember he's an Imperial House loyalist, he may be very happy about how this turned out with House Arslan, in that we uncovered their plot without getting him right in the crosshairs.
Not to mention giving his nephew command of one of the prize battleships, which means that we think he's ready for a command.
 
Lightwhispers said:
Although since I seem to remember he's an Imperial House loyalist, he may be very happy about how this turned out with House Arslan, in that we uncovered their plot without getting him right in the crosshairs.
Not to mention giving his nephew command of one of the prize battleships, which means that we think he's ready for a command.
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As a loyalist, I would expect the core of his actions responding to this matter to be about how the Empress can benefit from these events, with our thorough success and political moves modifying that core reaction. So if he judges the move here is to placate House Arslan, our success and moves might serve to save our life, while if the move is to shower us in honors and send us to oversee a fleet in defense of the capital, then we might get e.g. an extra Share(s) or free officer transfers.
 
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