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Xianxia Encompassing the World! (Xianxia Rec Discussion and Idea thread)

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Blaflaix said:
Part of it is that they want their "science" to give them an advantage, but they can't actually do that as one person trying one cultivation method over a short span of time (i.e. less than 1,000 years)

The sheer scale means any cultivation science would pretty much require someone in an Immortal realm to be overseeing the experiment.
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The best I have seen is experimenting with formations and alchemy...witch still take an outragous amount of wealth ("I need one thousand units of millions year old spiritual ginseng").
I faintly remenber someone trying to make a nuclear reactor by fusing opposed Qi...
 
OldShadow said:
I faintly remenber someone trying to make a nuclear reactor by fusing opposed Qi...
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That's actually another part of the issue.

There is a difference between doing science, and applying scientific principles you learned to an engineering problem.
There's nothing wrong with engineering, (and I'd say it fits a traditional story narrative better), but it does lead to a story where someone makes a bunch of huge assumptions about how things are the same, creates one device the superficially works as intended, then declares themselves the most brilliant scientist who ever lived.
All without ever using the scientific method.
 
OldShadow said:
The best I have seen is experimenting with formations and alchemy...witch still take an outragous amount of wealth ("I need one thousand units of millions year old spiritual ginseng").
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The protagonists are doing something like that in Path of Ascension now they've finished the path. Liz's research into bloodlines and Matt's Guild's research into Rift making and low rank enchantment.
 
Ace98 said:
I've been reading a quest thats essentially a 'end-game rimworlder' in a Xianxia world, though it hasn't gone quite the direction I was hoping for since the questers are well aware of Xianxia story tropes and are being awfully cautious when I just want to see Xianxia qi stuff be scientifically studied (It's called "Scifi Ascendent Dropped Into A Cultivation World" and it's on fiction.live).

Is there any Xianxia stories where Cultivation is Properly studied and broken down? I've only seen a few stories try but they felt more like science as a flavor and excuse rather then as a methodology for learning before falling to the wayside as normal Xianxia stuff happens

Also, Amazing Cultivation Simulator is certainly the same genre as Rimworld...though what that genre is called, I have no idea
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There's Applied Immortality, which takes it up a few notches. They do science, and scientifically investigate cultivation, but it's not been translated a lot.
 
Ace98 said:
Is there any Xianxia stories where Cultivation is Properly studied and broken down? I've only seen a few stories try but they felt more like science as a flavor and excuse rather then as a methodology for learning before falling to the wayside as normal Xianxia stuff happens
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That existed in but was not focused on in Forty Millenniums of Cultivation and the author's other work Oh My God Earthlings are Insane. Both had fairly developed societies that mirror our own, so would have probably iterated on and improved upon cultivation techniques in a scientific process, but neither MC was personally invested in the process so you don't really get into the methodology in the story.

I remember in the latter cultivation techniques were always improved upon over time with people and corporations periodically updating and releasing updated versions of their cultivation techniques. MC was a regressor so he also cribbed some future updates and released them early on to get his initial headstart. It's been a while since I read that (and I didn't finish), but I don't think it was a huge personal focus of the MC, so it's mostly background stuff.

In the former I think similar stuff also happened in that cultivation society, but MC had even less interaction with that IIRC, as he was an equipment refiner instead. He did contribute to advancements in that field, but not so much with cultivation directly. Around where I stopped reading there was also another society in enemy territory where unethical cultivators were human-trialing their new cultivation techniques. Would make fake grandpas in rings and lost heritages or whatnot and dump them onto a less developed planet for people to find, and then see if those techniques turned out well or just made the user explode or something so they could continue iterating on it. So you know, those guys were going through a scientific process. A very unethical form of it, but unethical science is still science.
 
SCDarkSoul said:
That existed in but was not focused on in Forty Millenniums of Cultivation and the author's other work Oh My God Earthlings are Insane. Both had fairly developed societies that mirror our own, so would have probably iterated on and improved upon cultivation techniques in a scientific process, but neither MC was personally invested in the process so you don't really get into the methodology in the story.

I remember in the latter cultivation techniques were always improved upon over time with people and corporations periodically updating and releasing updated versions of their cultivation techniques. MC was a regressor so he also cribbed some future updates and released them early on to get his initial headstart. It's been a while since I read that (and I didn't finish), but I don't think it was a huge personal focus of the MC, so it's mostly background stuff.

In the former I think similar stuff also happened in that cultivation society, but MC had even less interaction with that IIRC, as he was an equipment refiner instead. He did contribute to advancements in that field, but not so much with cultivation directly. Around where I stopped reading there was also another society in enemy territory where unethical cultivators were human-trialing their new cultivation techniques. Would make fake grandpas in rings and lost heritages or whatnot and dump them onto a less developed planet for people to find, and then see if those techniques turned out well or just made the user explode or something so they could continue iterating on it. So you know, those guys were going through a scientific process. A very unethical form of it, but unethical science is still science.
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Well If I had to describe 40 milleniums of cultivation, I'd describe it as a Warhammer40k x Halo x Stellaris crossover with a xianxia makeover. Like it's got it's own thing going on, but the general background is uhmm... very inspired. So yeah science, lots of it, It's practically a science ficiton story but with psykers replaced by cultivators
 
Yama951 said:
... found myself imaging a scene where a group of cultivators basically act as 911 emergency responders. One being a firefighter, another a police officer, the third a police detective, the fourth a paramedic and the fifth being an operator.

Somehow, the mental scenes of what's basically a magic 9-1-1 tv show is surprisingly strong...
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Jiyinwei/Embroidery guard is basically police procedural/judge dredd in wuxia

There are many, many, many works specifically covering their story

They can be protagonist of villains depends on how sympathetic you are to the monarchy or even picking sides in a civil war
 
I've been reading Cultivation is Creation lately. It's pretty solid. Pretty standard english-native "Decent guy isekais into xianxia world and gets culture shock". The world actually seems to run on xianxia tropes to a degree, to the point where you can start to identify different kinds of protagonist... but it also has some bits where it bows to plausibility. MC's cheat is a kind of interesting two-part thing. The first part is useful but not overwhelmingly powerful, and the second part seems like a straight drawback at first but eventually grows into something with some value. MC is somewhat genre-savvy, and mostly uses that to identify rogue chunks of plot that he wants no part in and dodge them.

It's well-written in general, it's doing some interesting stuff with the world-building, and the MC has a fair number of peers of various sorts who he can't just trample over at a whim while also feeling like a guy who could go all the way. I've been liking it.
 
Blaflaix said:
All without ever using the scientific method.
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People always forgot that science is one third theory, one third testing, and one third making shit up to patch the discrepancy
Overtime this discrepancy lessens but there's still a lot out there, like dark matter and dark energy

...

These problem crops up because some author and readers part of xianxia appeal is "discovery of wonders", even the unashamedly capitalistic World of Cultivation gets it.
 
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Sirrocco said:
I've been reading Cultivation is Creation lately. It's pretty solid. Pretty standard english-native "Decent guy isekais into xianxia world and gets culture shock". The world actually seems to run on xianxia tropes to a degree, to the point where you can start to identify different kinds of protagonist... but it also has some bits where it bows to plausibility. MC's cheat is a kind of interesting two-part thing. The first part is useful but not overwhelmingly powerful, and the second part seems like a straight drawback at first but eventually grows into something with some value. MC is somewhat genre-savvy, and mostly uses that to identify rogue chunks of plot that he wants no part in and dodge them.

It's well-written in general, it's doing some interesting stuff with the world-building, and the MC has a fair number of peers of various sorts who he can't just trample over at a whim while also feeling like a guy who could go all the way. I've been liking it.
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I came across it two days ago, but the description send up a bunch of red flags. Transmigration, and Time Loop, and a system, and sending out clones to posses recently dead, like a story that was popular a few months ago? And it does the "Hang lampshades on tropes but still play them basically straight", which by this point is basically the default for western xianxia? It feels like it's assembled by looking at popular things and smashing them together without a having its own identity.
The reviews are positive, but I don't trust those on RR except in total aggregate for the top rated, which actually are pretty good (except for Zenith of Sorcery, which I'd describe as good but nowhere near as good as it gets rated and it gets there because the authors previous work). And there are a few that claim my concerns are problems. So, I dunno.

Did you read Lone Wanderer? That's the Send Out Clones story I assume it's aping, though I think I've seen ads for at least one other?
 
I always thought that fantasy Ancient Egypt was a weirdly good setting for a Xianxia story.
Make it take place during a not-Intermediary Period, where the power of Not-Pharaoh is nonexistent, and one of the main goals of the characters would be to become the founder of a new Dynasty or just destroy the system. This would also explain why the gods intervene less in the story, being focused on the general chaos over human affairs.
People cultivate by focusing Shekhem (mystical energy/not-Qi) through their multiple souls (Ka-vital energy, Ba-personality...).
Replace the elements/affinity by worship and favors of the various Gods.
When a cultivator reaches a certain power, they need to go into the land of the dead (Duat) and face various trials/tribulations.
Heavens and fate are replaced by the conflicts between the divine order/Maat and chaos, with the big bad being the incarnation/favored of Apophis.
You could have a lot of cool things, like powerful cultivators being able to act through writings of their names or exploring forgotten tombs to earn the favors of dead cultivators and learn their techniques.

And such setting would change a little of the sadly common xianxia trope of "the world is 10000 times the size of Earth, but everything in it is just Central Plains Han Chinese culture with no variation". I understand authors write what they know, but even in China itself there is far more to use than just that.
 
BurnNote said:
I came across it two days ago, but the description send up a bunch of red flags. Transmigration, and Time Loop, and a system, and sending out clones to posses recently dead, like a story that was popular a few months ago? And it does the "Hang lampshades on tropes but still play them basically straight", which by this point is basically the default for western xianxia? It feels like it's assembled by looking at popular things and smashing them together without a having its own identity.
The reviews are positive, but I don't trust those on RR except in total aggregate for the top rated, which actually are pretty good (except for Zenith of Sorcery, which I'd describe as good but nowhere near as good as it gets rated and it gets there because the authors previous work). And there are a few that claim my concerns are problems. So, I dunno.

Did you read Lone Wanderer? That's the Send Out Clones story I assume it's aping, though I think I've seen ads for at least one other?
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It's not nearly as bad as you're thinking.
His "system" is basically just a way for him to see with a great deal more precision how his cultivation works, and thereby improve his flows. it occasionally notices things and offers him advice. He's not getting any rewards from it. The "powers" that it offers him are all just information about himself and his immediate surroundings, and even that is limited by his own knowledge. It's useful, especially from a training and optimization standpoint, but it's not overwhelming.

The transmigration/time loop/clone possession thing is all one thing. Basically, sometimes his soul takes jaunts over to other worlds and experiences them, and then comes back at basically the same time as he left. So far, he's only jumped to one world, and he's always restarted at the same time and place when he did, having taken over from someone who (probably) had just died. Also, he can't bring his base cultivation with him when he goes, and his ability to bring stuff back from those places is really limited. It has now started to be useful, and it looks like it's going to wind up being more useful in the future, but it seems like it's going to be more of an opportunity to digress into alternate storylines than it is an ubercheat.
As for having its own identity? I honestly think it does. I've found it refreshing, I've liked the characters. They have some well-loved tropes, but they're not just retreads.
 
On analyzing cultivation, Essence of Cultivation springs to mind. Character from a parallel world is dropped into a cultivator world and uses his native world's institutional knowledge to analyze and break down cultivation.

Except he's a wizard from wizard land and he's looking at cultivation through the lens of magical practice. Neat POV clash and worldbuilding. I like how the story immediately asks 'Why has nobody in magicland discovered cultivation yet, and vice-versa' and then works to justify it.
 
My mind decided to give me the crazy idea of a person who's will is strong to the point of stubborn delusion and who's Dao is the Dao of Positive Thinking, like, turning new age spirituality as different cultivation paths...
 
Still reading Cultivation is Creation. It's hit the end of Book One, and is quite solid. Still reading When Immortal Ascenscion Fails, Time Travel to Try Again. It's hit the end of Story 10, and is quite solid. Still reading Ave Xia Rem Y, currently on Chapter 291. They're all pretty solid examples of standard english-native xianxia - playing around with the tropes of standard xianxia, averting and subverting some, setting a few lampshades, playing some straight, deconstructing and reconstructing. You know the drill. If you hate it you hate it, but I find I rather enjoy it, and all three are very well done. I've run into a number of examples of the type that I am not still reading.

As for levels of cheat?

- Ave Xia Rem Y doesn't really have a cheat. Protag has significantly deeper backing than he'd have reason to believe at first, and that gives him some advantages that he then goes on to leverage. He also has some pretty solid talent (though not absurd levels). He's kind of a monster at his tier, but not an impossible one. It's well done, and the character interactions and clash of ideologies are both excellent.

- WIAFTTtTA is an isekai (which gives her some genre savvy and also some exploitable stuff like knowledge of rock as a musical genre) and a returner (which gives her about the kind of advantages that you'd expect from a one-time returner, plus some complications). She's quite a lot more powerful than her cultivation tier would suggest, but she's also regularly punching way up to try to prevent tragedies that she remembers from the first time through or take advantages of opportunities that she doesn't really have the tier for. So... she basically keeps getting herself into fights that she has to work incredibly hard to survive and get herself back out of. Oh, and the MC is incredibly Chuuni, but her internal monologue kind of downplays it, which leads to entertaining dissonance with how other people react. It's light-hearted, with a fair bit of comedy, but, again, very well done, and I have never regretted the read.

- Cultivation is Creation has this intricate combination of powers that sounds like it's every kind of overpowered stacked together, but it really just boils down to a knowledge/understanding cheat plus an ability for the MC to go on not-entirely-safe training arcs to other universes with time compression so that people don't miss him while he's gone. MC is also an isekai with the associated degree of genre savvy... and he uses that genre savvy to notice that he's surrounded by lots of guys with cheats of their own, that his is in no way the most powerful, and that this is not safe. At that point he proceeds to dodge subplots as hard as he can. Again, it's very well done.

All protagonists are fairly moral, all live in worlds that have a decent number of fairly moral people in them, and all manage to productively work within the established local power structures without being too disruptive. They're pretty cool.
 
I'll second Ave Xia Rem Y as a good story, but I've found it frustratingly vague about how powerful the different realms are supposed to be.

Yes, Renegade, Emperor and Divine are all monstrously powerful, but it feels like I know more about the downsides of the realms below that than their strengths.
 
I felt like reading time loop stories, so I've been trying to read My Longevity Simulation. It was about what I was expecting from the reviews. The worldbuilding and mysteries seem well thought out, but the MC is pretty boring, though boring is still preferable to turbo asshole. Well, the summary talked about dark forests, so at least I didn't set my expectations too high going in.
 
Sirrocco said:
Cultivation is Creation has this intricate combination of powers that sounds like it's every kind of overpowered stacked together, but it really just boils down to a knowledge/understanding cheat plus an ability for the MC to go on not-entirely-safe training arcs to other universes with time compression so that people don't miss him while he's gone. MC is also an isekai with the associated degree of genre savvy... and he uses that genre savvy to notice that he's surrounded by lots of guys with cheats of their own, that his is in no way the most powerful, and that this is not safe. At that point he proceeds to dodge subplots as hard as he can. Again, it's very well done.
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I bounded off Cultivation is Creation when the LitRPG stuff was introduced. I like LitRPGs but it just seemed so unnecessary and counter productive to this story. Does the LitRPG stuff become less prominent later or least less actively hostile to interesting cultivation development?
 
Glimmervoid said:
I bounded off Cultivation is Creation when the LitRPG stuff was introduced. I like LitRPGs but it just seemed so unnecessary and counter productive to this story. Does the LitRPG stuff become less prominent later or least less actively hostile to interesting cultivation development?
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The LitRPG basically comes in two parts.

Azure - his little cultivation fairy - lives in his head and tells him stuff about his cultivation and the world around him, and occasionally highlights certain things in protag's vision. That's where he started, and that's where he stays. His level stays pretty constant. I think that in part he's a mechanism to allow the protag someone to talk with who he doesn't have to hide anything from, and who can play exposition fairy.

The rest of the System interactions fall away pretty much immediately and then don't seem to show up again. Like, I had to think hard to remember that they'd even been a thing at one point. I suspect that the author realized that they weren't adding much and dropped them.
 
Yeah, the "litRPG" part doesn't do much. Just reading his own stats, and having an interactive system fairy.

Rather, the world hopping bit that's tied into both his system and cultivation method is the thing that gives me a bit of pause. At first I thought it would throw him into a different world each time and he could just get a bit of experience and stats each time, with each trip just being a brief excursion. But instead he was able to repeatedly enter the same world at the same point in time, and spent a while in one of the attempts.

So in that case, each world is not just throwaway, which means that we could be potentially splitting focus over multiple worlds, with at least one of them being its own timeloop story. Its been fine so far, particularly since I could binge through that arc where he was in the other world for a while, but it has the potential to make the story feel too scattered from trying to do too much if not handled well.
 
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