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Xianxia Encompassing the World! (Xianxia Rec Discussion and Idea thread)

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You know what would be cool to see from a Xianxia? A recurring rival/enemy character. More specifically, one from the same backwater lower world as the MC.

Like, say it's a young master that the MC disgraced, back at the Foundation stage. I think it'd be really cool to have that character show up when the MC is an Immortal in some greater world and actually be a credible threat.

Something that would also be great to see, is an MC whose misogyny bites them in the ass. And that ass-biting is then used to fuel character development, or at least push a subplot.
 
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The Grey Mage said:
You know what would be cool to see from a Xianxia? A recurring rival/enemy character. More specifically, one from the same backwater lower world as the MC.

Like, say it's a young master that the MC disgraced, back at the Foundation stage. I think it'd be really cool to have that character show up when the MC is an Immortal in some greater world and actually be a credible threat.

Something that would also be great to see, is an MC whose misogyny bites them in the ass. And that ass-biting is then used to fuel character development, or at least push a subplot.
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Erandil said:
Well there is World of Cultivation....
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... which like I said features a pretty consistent cast of characters throughout the story which does indeed include many of antagonist characters and factions.
 
Erandil said:
... which like I said features a pretty consistent cast of characters throughout the story which does indeed include many of antagonist characters and factions.
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I know WoC is good, and I enjoy the story, but the translation can get annoying to read. I've dropped it a couple times just because of that.
 
The Grey Mage said:
You know what would be cool to see from a Xianxia? A recurring rival/enemy character. More specifically, one from the same backwater lower world as the MC.

Like, say it's a young master that the MC disgraced, back at the Foundation stage. I think it'd be really cool to have that character show up when the MC is an Immortal in some greater world and actually be a credible threat.

Something that would also be great to see, is an MC whose misogyny bites them in the ass. And that ass-biting is then used to fuel character development, or at least push a subplot.
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I've actually brought up before that it's kind of weird you pretty much never see any xianxia have that character archetype of a recurring rival/enemy who grows in strength with the hero, given that it's just about one of the easiest and most effective ways to build hype for fights.

I guess it's because having a character around the same tier and growth rate as the protagonist, who can actually push them to their limits and maybe even get a win or two early on, would mess up the "endless parade of effortless curbstomps for cheap catharsis" thing most of them have going on. Plus the way they always try to go for maximum stakes by making damn near every fight a fight the protagonist can't afford to lose even when it isn't expressly to the death.
 
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SCDarkSoul said:
By "Immortal Cultivators" I was actually referring to a faction/ideology in Forty Millenniums of Cultivation that are a form of the typical asshole cultivator who think might makes right, as opposed to cultivators who are immortal.
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Ah, those are probably rare, I think, though I do admit that there's an air of "only a strong civilization get to survive in this universe" kind of feel to the story. But that's normal, I suppose. The ultra-ruthless kinds, however... so far I'm reading Chapter 1000+ of the raws, and I didn't catch any of the sorts.
 
The Grey Mage said:
I know WoC is good, and I enjoy the story, but the translation can get annoying to read. I've dropped it a couple times just because of that.
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That is true and I had the same problem (plus the ending is a bit lacking but then I have yet to find a story with an ending in the genre that I actually like). The way I "dealt" with that issue is by forcing myself through the first 50 to a 100 chapters after which I was more or less used to the the translation style and could more or less read the rest of the story without getting to upset.
 
If World of Cultivation is the one I'm thinking of, then I also had the same issues with the translation. Also tried some other novels on that site/translator and dropped them as well.

It's the one where every chapter has a dozen new untranslated words with footnotes at the bottom right?
 
Leingod said:
I've actually brought up before that it's kind of weird you pretty much never see any xianxia have that character archetype of a recurring rival/enemy who grows in strength with the hero, given that it's just about one of the easiest and most effective ways to build hype for fights.
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There's some of that in Tales of Herding Gods.

There's a good amount of enemy/rival characters who end up becoming friends/"friends" with the MC. While they tend to keep pace, they don't really match the MC.

There's a few villains that are reoccurring, but one of them is only really a threat at his first appearance and then gets the Team Rocket treatment. The other one, is treated as a pretty significant threat when he shows up but he's also the type of character who can go "My goals today do not necessarily involve kicking your teeth down your throat so we can work together or I can get kicking. Your pick." and have most other characters go "Alright, guess we're working together."
 
Nervaqus987 said:
There's some of that in Tales of Herding Gods.

There's a good amount of enemy/rival characters who end up becoming friends/"friends" with the MC. While they tend to keep pace, they don't really match the MC.

There's a few villains that are reoccurring, but one of them is only really a threat at his first appearance and then gets the Team Rocket treatment. The other one, is treated as a pretty significant threat when he shows up but he's also the type of character who can go "My goals today do not necessarily involve kicking your teeth down your throat so we can work together or I can get kicking. Your pick." and have most other characters go "Alright, guess we're working together."
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I mean, the two recurring that come to mind...

Pangong Tso and Xing An both definitely are like that - hell, they both even rediscover a certain amount of lost heroism in later chapters. I actually became rather pleased when they showed up, as usually fun times are ahead. Later on, they even have their heroic moments.

I think part of why it works in this story is that with a lot of the rival-types the actual 'sides' of the conflicts in the plot tend to shift a lot due to events and diplomacy/trickery. As a lot of the enduring characters come across as having their own heroic tendencies (with the problem mostly being opposing goals), and a lot of times characters show mercy to those with admirable character (or who could be useful down the road), so irreconcilable grudges feel relatively rare. Even "you killed/stole treasures from me" doesn't seem to necessarily prevent working together (at least temporarily).

It honestly feels like those who have a tendency for irreconcilable grudges... well, tend to perish early in their careers (or, if they show up in the plot, shortly after their introduction). Which makes a certain amount of sense. There was only one recurring 'grudge' character that I can think of - others are recurring, and definitely would love to kill Qin Mu at many a time, but aren't "we cannot live under the same sky!" about it.

Also, the plot doesn't actually run through a whole lot of "virtuous cycles". The protagonist is very rapidly positioned in a more political arena, in a setting where sects (and their conflicts) are in the process of being severely suppressed. And he then is aligned with some fairly strong support - with his opposition being more philosophical than emotional. Qin Mu is an obstacle, not a mortal foe.

Then once he hits the big leagues, it's all about a complex struggle of individual power-brokers, with Qin Mu being an opportunity or an obstacle depending on the situation. He still, as of chapter 902, is seen that way... even as (I suspect) he's gearing up for a fairly major upsetting of the circumstances. He generally manages to get himself in a position where it's more appealing to keep him alive.
 
Do you know what bugs me about Xianxia? Magical oaths.
Their exact specifics vary widley, but its pretty common to have them be functionally unbreakable, not require any cultivation materials, and don't need any prep time.

With anything remotely like this, these oaths should be a massive massive part of the world.
Want to join a sect? Swear a oath to never oppose the sect or they don't let you join (and thus you stay a level 0 peasent forever).
If someone loses a fight? Make the other person take an oath to not seek revenge (or let anyone seek revenge on his behalf. Or (if you are more evil) become your slave and not fight back ever again or you kill them.
Be a powerful cultivator with a question for a significantly weaker one that can't say no? Make them swear an oath that they are telling you everything and aren't trying to trick you.
Buying an expensive item? A simple oath will let you know if the good you are buying is genuine and makes sure you aren't scammed.

However even with the massive utility and power of said oaths its exceedingly unlikely for them to pop up more than a dozen times across a thousand chapter Xianxia novel despite the fact that they should be appearing every few chapters.
I know that this certainly isn't the only area where most Xianxia has setting issues (nor is it anywhere near the biggest one), but the complete lack of people utilizing oaths to any meaningful degree still bugs me.
 
zinay said:
Daoist Gu uses oaths as a fairly significant setting element.
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It's fairly important to note that they are fairly restricted there since it requires a special gu to make an oath which is then used up.
So sure, the oaths in that particular novel make quite a bit of sense as they are too expensive to just waste. Even then as you say they are used fairly often because they are simply so useful.

On the flip side in say Coiling Dragon oaths are unbreakable no matter how high your cultivation, are free to use and require no equipment or prep of any kind but are used about a total of five times over two thousand chapters.
 
lemon10 said:
Do you know what bugs me about Xianxia? Magical oaths.
Their exact specifics vary widley, but its pretty common to have them be functionally unbreakable, not require any cultivation materials, and don't need any prep time.

With anything remotely like this, these oaths should be a massive massive part of the world.
Want to join a sect? Swear a oath to never oppose the sect or they don't let you join (and thus you stay a level 0 peasent forever).
If someone loses a fight? Make the other person take an oath to not seek revenge (or let anyone seek revenge on his behalf. Or (if you are more evil) become your slave and not fight back ever again or you kill them.
Be a powerful cultivator with a question for a significantly weaker one that can't say no? Make them swear an oath that they are telling you everything and aren't trying to trick you.
Buying an expensive item? A simple oath will let you know if the good you are buying is genuine and makes sure you aren't scammed.

However even with the massive utility and power of said oaths its exceedingly unlikely for them to pop up more than a dozen times across a thousand chapter Xianxia novel despite the fact that they should be appearing every few chapters.
I know that this certainly isn't the only area where most Xianxia has setting issues (nor is it anywhere near the biggest one), but the complete lack of people utilizing oaths to any meaningful degree still bugs me.
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Well, Tales of Herding Gods has swearing to the Earth Count, which happens occasionally. It seems to require some capability to set up, the wording is very important, and the consequences potentially affect both sides, so not something you'd do trivially. There's also some implication that excessive use (or exploitative use) would result in an unamused man carrying a lantern coming in a floating boat to take your soul anyway.

It's still used on occasion with a defeated foe, or using trickery (particularly the "Little Earth Count" variation).


Most settings that have magical oaths tend to have them being pretty literal and harsh - so taking on a small risk of getting smote every time you sell an item adds up to a non-trivial danger. People are going to avoid dealing with you if you demand "your soul is ash" oaths for things. And those too tiny to be able to choose to do their business elsewhere are tiny enough that they're no danger - and you'll smite them yourself if they annoy you.

And, of course, demanding oaths from everyone probably makes you look paranoid, foolish, weak. What's the matter, you can't enforce your own terms? Scared of mere merchants?
 
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lemon10 said:
Do you know what bugs me about Xianxia? Magical oaths.
Their exact specifics vary widley, but its pretty common to have them be functionally unbreakable, not require any cultivation materials, and don't need any prep time.

With anything remotely like this, these oaths should be a massive massive part of the world.
Want to join a sect? Swear a oath to never oppose the sect or they don't let you join (and thus you stay a level 0 peasent forever).
If someone loses a fight? Make the other person take an oath to not seek revenge (or let anyone seek revenge on his behalf. Or (if you are more evil) become your slave and not fight back ever again or you kill them.
Be a powerful cultivator with a question for a significantly weaker one that can't say no? Make them swear an oath that they are telling you everything and aren't trying to trick you.
Buying an expensive item? A simple oath will let you know if the good you are buying is genuine and makes sure you aren't scammed.

However even with the massive utility and power of said oaths its exceedingly unlikely for them to pop up more than a dozen times across a thousand chapter Xianxia novel despite the fact that they should be appearing every few chapters.
I know that this certainly isn't the only area where most Xianxia has setting issues (nor is it anywhere near the biggest one), but the complete lack of people utilizing oaths to any meaningful degree still bugs me.
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Lifeblood Oaths in Desolate Era are used pretty regularly in Primordial Chaos by pretty much everyone.

Sects use them to insure the loyalty of members, rando cultivators grouping up for one reason or another use them to make sure that no one backstabs anyone, and people use them when selling techniques to make it so customers can't teach that technique to someone else(unless they paid extra for that).
 
lemon10 said:
It's fairly important to note that they are fairly restricted there since it requires a special gu to make an oath which is then used up.
So sure, the oaths in that particular novel make quite a bit of sense as they are too expensive to just waste. Even then as you say they are used fairly often because they are simply so useful.
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That's the case for mortals, but for Immortals they're far easier to access and far more common. And not all of them are single use.

Of course, they certainly aren't unbreakable, seeing how a recurring plot point is FY following them to the letter until he finds a way to break the oath without eating a loss. :V
 
The Grey Mage said:
That's the case for mortals, but for Immortals they're far easier to access and far more common. And not all of them are single use.

Of course, they certainly aren't unbreakable, seeing how a recurring plot point is FY following them to the letter until he finds a way to break the oath without eating a loss. :V
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Which is perhaps one reason to not rely on them - false sense of security. Combine that with the possibility of the other party finding a way to force you into breach... and, well, you'll only want to make very careful, limited oaths; possibly only covering a short period of time (to minimize the chance of the other party finding a way out or a way to screw you over with it).
 
Genesys said:
Honestly, I can't reconcile the plethora of AYMs in some xianxia with any worldbuilding that hidden experts exist. It's one thing to boss around members of the sect if your grandfather is the founder or whatever, sure. You should be reasonably familiar with the capabilities of the people, how far you can go, who you can and cannot touch.
But then they take their attitude out of the sect of whatever local region their backing's in charge of, and then somehow expect to be treated the same, despite not actually having researched everyone around them and not knowing what kind of backing or personal power they might have. Do they just assume literally everyone around them will proclaim it to the skies if they have even a modicum of strength or backing?
And at the same time, the world should be having countless wars between major factions simply by dint of swaggering around and antagonizing everyone on a whim, because apparently everyone not friends with the MC in the younger generation is like this, except the faceless mooks who have neither strength nor backing.
(also, that thing where the AYM's like "you're not allowed to resist when I kill you" without even giving a plausible reason to not resist, like knowing who the other party's family is and having capability to wipe them out, wtf)
So I dropped a couple xianxia recently for being too much like that.
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Important context. The Arrogant Young Master is a Chinese culture specific variation of the Karen phenomenon.
Fu Er Dai - Wealthy Second Generation, referencing a proverb that fortunes are made by the first generation who labored hard for their advantages and well earned pride, and squandered by the second, who have pride and wealth but no effort or ability to back up their assets, having been raised by parents who knew deprivation and wanted their children to never experience a moment of it.

Said individuals are stereotypically spoiled rotten, entitled, out of touch with reality, given jobs on basis of their parents connections, and their catchphrase is "my father is XXX"
lemon10 said:
Do you know what bugs me about Xianxia? Magical oaths.
Their exact specifics vary widley, but its pretty common to have them be functionally unbreakable, not require any cultivation materials, and don't need any prep time.

With anything remotely like this, these oaths should be a massive massive part of the world.
Want to join a sect? Swear a oath to never oppose the sect or they don't let you join (and thus you stay a level 0 peasent forever).
If someone loses a fight? Make the other person take an oath to not seek revenge (or let anyone seek revenge on his behalf. Or (if you are more evil) become your slave and not fight back ever again or you kill them.
Be a powerful cultivator with a question for a significantly weaker one that can't say no? Make them swear an oath that they are telling you everything and aren't trying to trick you.
Buying an expensive item? A simple oath will let you know if the good you are buying is genuine and makes sure you aren't scammed.

However even with the massive utility and power of said oaths its exceedingly unlikely for them to pop up more than a dozen times across a thousand chapter Xianxia novel despite the fact that they should be appearing every few chapters.
I know that this certainly isn't the only area where most Xianxia has setting issues (nor is it anywhere near the biggest one), but the complete lack of people utilizing oaths to any meaningful degree still bugs me.
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Note that the oaths are usually made to Heaven or the Great Dao, which is not an impassive natural force, but a force with its own consciousness and great pride. It enforces oaths because of that pride, that someone dares swear upon its name in vain cannot be tolerated. Swearing trivial oaths upon Heaven would thus be punished.

Incidentally this SHOULD be the same force that sends down tribulation lightning.
 
veekie said:
Note that the oaths are usually made to Heaven or the Great Dao, which is not an impassive natural force, but a force with its own consciousness and great pride. It enforces oaths because of that pride, that someone dares swear upon its name in vain cannot be tolerated. Swearing trivial oaths upon Heaven would thus be punished.

Incidentally this SHOULD be the same force that sends down tribulation lightning.
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...which suggests the image of someone who's managed to weasel his way out from under enough oaths that he's actually pissed off the Great Dao to the point where the next time he swears an oath, he's just struck by lightning immediately.

*Zortch*
"What? Where are you going? This doesn't mean anything!"
*Zortch*
"No, really! You can -"
*Zortch*
"- trust me! I swear!"
*Zortch* *Zortch* *Zortch*

...which in turn suggests the idea of a guy who's managed to cultivate a way to be not just immune to damage from lightning, but actually both get a temporary power up and gain cultivation benefits off of it... which means that offending the heavens is an important part of his buff cycle.
 
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Sirrocco said:
...which in turn suggests the idea of a guy who's managed to cultivate a way to be not just immune to damage from lightning, but actually both get a temporary power up and gain cultivation benefits off of it... which means that offending the heavens is an important part of his buff cycle.
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There are plenty of works where having some special lightning affinity that makes you immune to being hurt by electricity or some super-rare lightning-based cultivation method is super-valuable for exactly that reason.

Of course, to do that most of them limit heavenly tribulations to just lightning, when in the original literature and some other xianxia works there's also stuff like tribulations by fire, wind, etc.
 
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Leingod said:
There are plenty of works where having some special lightning affinity that makes you immune to being hurt by electricity or some super-rare lightning-based cultivation method is super-valuable for exactly that reason.

Of course, to do that most of them limit heavenly tribulations to just lightning, when in the original literature and some other xianxia works there's also stuff like tribulations by fire, wind, etc.
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My favourite heavenly tribulations are the ones from Cultivation Chat Group where the tribulations decided to modernize and started shooting people with tank shells and nuclear missiles.
 
Leingod said:
There are plenty of works where having some special lightning affinity that makes you immune to being hurt by electricity or some super-rare lightning-based cultivation method is super-valuable for exactly that reason.

Of course, to do that most of them limit heavenly tribulations to just lightning, when in the original literature and some other xianxia works there's also stuff like tribulations by fire, wind, etc.
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Journey to the West for really old school had 81 tribulations, all (theoretically) different. Though I'm not sure Triptaka alternately risking being eaten by demons and 'eaten' by lewd demons in fifty different ways should be different tribulations.

Most notably as an explicit tribulation, after they finish the Journey, they miscounted the number of tribulations and thus experienced a final one, the scripture(or in Xianxia terms, Dao), they bring back to the world as their final great deed is ruined by water and thus cannot be perfectly taught to mankind to end suffering.

Tribulations aren't shy about hitting what you really care about.
 
veekie said:
Tribulations aren't shy about hitting what you really care about.
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Yeah, as mentioned most xianxia is simplifying it down a lot by just making it "you get struck by x number of lightning bolts." Some of them do kind of bring up the not-purely-physical aspects through warnings about "Heart Demons" and such, but in practice I've never seen that actually being a thing any MC has had to seriously deal with and been actually threatened by, even though it seems like just about the easiest and most natural way to build tension, character exploration, and narrative payoff for a big breakthrough.
 
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