Cyclone
Robotech Nerd
- Location
- Earth, Sol System
Ah. Damn it. Whoops.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Wormverse ideas, recs, and fic discussion thread 1
- Thread starter Yog
- Start date
Ah. Damn it. Whoops.
earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Some people were able to do that.
Hopefully the others will join those of us who did in fact drop it.
- Location
- Space
And the award for passive aggressive reply of 2015 goes to...
Interesting! Although, I get a similar vibe to the Infinite Loops premise, where all realities are bumping into each other while trapped in time. What kind of tone would a cross like this aim for? Fun cosmic adventure? Reality-warping, existential dread?
earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There is no such poster.
Good behavior and obedience towards the law must be rewarded, and according to Tattletale the best reward is the Smugness of the Just.
Or, as Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote: "In order that nothing may be wanting to the felicity of the blessed spirits in heaven, a perfect view is granted to them of the tortures of the damned."
(Also presumably popcorn.)
BrokenAscendent
Unum prae omnibus aliis
- Location
- Auld Lang Syne
No its earthboy.
FourthWall
Love & Destroy
- Location
- Chiraq
You could play it like a complete pastiche or parody like the Innortal Loops, make a Crisis on Infinite Taylors situation that can be played silly or serious, have Scion's multiverse coobie thing threaten much more than Earth Aleph, or make it a coming of age tale like Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi.
The premise is super flexible.
earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Objective
- Metric
- Quantify
Show me how your suggestion turns a work of fiction into a number.
Hotdog Vendor
Author of 'Sisters of Rail'
- Location
- (5 + 3 * sqrt(5)) / 8
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A few hours ago I got an alert saying that jerkface had quoted me and... well now I'm finally unconfused.
Fencer
Writer
- Location
- 2nd shift
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Mellasdo
Absentminded Writer
Preface: While I was mulling over various fic ideas and in particular trying to work without.'s premise into an actual story, this went from a two to three sentence idea into a Thing. Enjoy!
It didn't hurt. Nothing hurt, anymore. Every ache, every broken feeling, gone.
Peace.
I sank in a inky void, surrounded by nothing. No heat. No cold. I moved, but was it really? There was no wind, only the faint sense of falling, in the back of my mind.
No light, but I could see myself. I was whole. Clean, in a way I thought I never would feel again, after what had happened.
If time passed, I didn't notice. What was there to tell the time with, anymore?
A sound woke me. This void had no sound. What was that, then? I looked around, body drifting slowly as I did. Nothing to hold me in place, but yet I still slowed to a stop eventually. I had found the source of the sound, just as it repeated. Someone... crying?
Before me was a heart. In this void it was both far and near, a cracked thing that looked like it was made of glass. A bleeding heart, that seeped red. Another sob, heard through the heart as if a speaker.
I reached out, catching a few drops of red. Or tried. They fell through my colourless hands as if they didn't exist. I felt something, though. Surge of energy if just for a moment.
I reached out again. This time, I took hold of the heart. But as I pulled it toward me, everything faded.
A flash of light. The sounds of cars, of people. A siren, nearby. Had... I escaped from that place? It had been peaceful, yes. But a place to visit, not to stay, I think.
Another flash of light. I was in a bedroom. The light was from outside, a passing car. I guess I wasn't used to light, after spending who knows how long in that darkness. Gravity tugged at me again, as I tried to move. I had missed it. And from how strong it felt, it had missed me, too.
The room, I decided as my vision adjusted, was nice. A bit better than my own, to be honest. Not a lot of personal effects. Some books I couldn't see the titles of on a desk, a few pictures on the wall. But... It felt like a guest room. I looked around a bit more, but was immediately distracted.
The dresser had a mirror. The dim lighting was enough that I could see myself, though not in colour. That, I had learned, didn't matter. I had no colour anymore. Black and white, and mostly colours between. But the rest... Well, I hadn't exactly had a mirror in there.
Despite everything, it was still me. Even with the dark, empty eyes. It was a bit odd, but... I knew something had changed. I was a parahuman, after all. A bit of oddness was expected of me.
It was the sound again. Faint, hard to hear over the sounds of the city outside. A stifled sound I wouldn't have noticed if not for hearing it before. That brought me to the bed of the bedroom. Someone was sleeping, fitfully. Holding back tears even now.
I knew how it was. Moving up to them, I gently tucked them in a bit better, making sure not to wake them. I owed them, for getting me out of that place. And if I had powers... I was going to use them for good. Starting with this person.
I took a seat on the end of the bed, not moving it as much as I thought I would. Had I lost weight? Shaking my head of the thought, I closed my eyes, and threw my memory back. How did that tune go? Ah. That's right. Start like this.
I hummed softly, following a meandering tune in my memories.
The sun had risen, and the birds roused me from my drifting doze. After they had calmed down, I had tested a few things out. By focusing, I could see their heart again.... And by the same focus, I could see mine. Slightly deformed, a marbled mix of red and black. I had the feeling it was better this way, than it had before.
The memories from just before the void were not ones I wanted to draw forth. Pulling my own heart into focus, though, had kept it there. The darkness around me pooled, the shadows on my skin dripping and melting into it. Kind of neat looking, if you asked me. With a thought and a bit of will, my heart vanished and the effect faded. Liquid shadow evaporating into nothing.
In the morning light, I could see the room better. It still felt like a guest room in a way. A bit too tidy, for my tastes. The books on the desk were textbooks. The usual school subjects. A student? I didn't take a closer look at them, to narrow it down. A large and rather practical looking backpack sat next to the desk, where I hadn't noticed it in the shadows of the room.
The house itself was waking up from the sound of it, a person passing by the door. One knocked on the door, even.
That woke up the owner of the room, who grumbled a bit. I thought about it, before slipping into a corner of the room. I could have left, sure. Probably a bit safer. But I felt I needed to speak to them. If they needed help, I would help them. To do that... I had to be honest. They probably hadn't been all the way asleep when I came here, after all.
As I watched, they got up, rubbing their eyes. A young girl, who looked a bit tired. I couldn't blame her. If her night was so bad it somehow had reached that dark place...
She got up, and made her bed. She didn't seem to notice me as she dashed about, grabbing an outfit from her closet and rushing for the bathroom. There was something odd about how she moved, I noticed. Zipping along, but somehow doing it while walking.
Time passed, and she returned to her room. She looked less tired now, but only by a bit. She did it again as she closed her door. She took two steps and was somehow at her dresser. Now that I was really looking at it... One step was away from the door. And then the other step was up to the dresser. Between that was nothing. Teleportation?
She stared at the mirror for a second or two, reaching into one of the dresser drawers to grab a small pack of makeup. With practiced ease she started to cover up the bags under her eyes, the general signs of too much stress and not enough sleep.
I knew the signs, after all, having suffered them myself. I didn't bother using makeup, in my case. I might not even need it anymore. That she needed it so young, though... was worrying. With that weird movement, maybe she was a cape? As she finished, I stepped up behind her, hands visible. Didn't want her to take it the wrong way.
She glanced up at the mirror, stared for a moment, before turning around suddenly. Her mouth open, she paused for some reason, and then looked back over her shoulder. She frowned, turning to face my reflection.
"Okay... Who the heck are you, why are you in my mirror, and why the heck shouldn't I be screaming bloody murder right now?" She asked. She sounded very sure of herself. Not unfazed, but something told me she was used to weird tings happening.
"Can you hear this?" I asked. If I was only visible in her mirror, she might not be able to hear me, normally.
She gave me a nod. "Yeah, I can hear you. Doesn't sound like it's from the mirror, though."
I shrugged. "Makes sense. That's just my reflection. I'm not sure why you can't see me normally. But to answer your questions... You can call me... T for now, I guess. I'm not in your mirror, and... I wasn't sure if anyone could see me other than you, considering what happened last night."
"T, huh...? New to the powers business?" I nodded to her, as she continued. "Why would you be... visible in my mirror, but not normally?" She looked at the mirror a bit closer, her expression morphing into surprised. "Oh!"
She made a few vague gestures and a pressure I had put down to being unused to gravity lifted from my shoulders. She turned again, to look at me, and waved.
"So that's something new I learned today. Neat. Anyway, 'T'. What do you mean by 'what happened last night'?"
"It's... hard to explain? I was stuck somewhere. I'm not sure where. I think it might have to do with my powers, or just... trying to get away from... something. But I was stuck in there. I don't know for how long. Last night, though... I noticed something, and trying to interact with it made me pop out in your room. Maybe it was something to do with your power and mine?" I skipped the bit about trying to calm her down... or the whole 'heart' thing.
Probably not the best time.
The young girl winced. "A new trigger, I'm guessing?" At my expression she continued. "Getting your powers, I mean. You might be right, though. I couldn't see you because you were... somehow ignoring my power in a weird way. The mirror thing is because of something I never noticed before. So... You pop out here, and decided to stay to make sure you could be seen... Which I think you're going to be. You cast a shadow and everything."
She paused, another brows scrunching up. "Wait a minute..." She pointed at me, accusingly. "That humming was you?!"
I raised my hands. "Ah... guilty? It was the only thing I could think of! All I knew was that suddenly I was in someone's room and they were... Not sleeping well. I just wanted to help."
Frowning, she crossed her arms. "... Just don't mention it to anymore. Ever."
"Lips are sealed." I mimed zipping my lips.
For a long moment there was silence, before she sighed. "Well, T. There's good and there's bad. Good thing. I can probably help you out. Bad thing. You just made both of our days really, really complicated."
"Uh, really? How so?" I asked.
She just held up a finger, fishing out a small cellphone from... somewhere. Maybe more use of her power? She hit a button and put it to her ear.
"This is V. Sort of have a situation here. No, it's not an emergency. There's a parahuman in my bedroom. Friendly, I'm pretty sure. Usual pickup spot? Right." She hung up. "To answer your question... A lot of pointed questions, and a ton of paperwork. More for me than you on the latter."
She shrugged. "But at least it's better than the usual day in and day out stuff." A grin, as she glanced at me, and then her mirror.
I should probably be worried by her chuckles, after that. She sounded about a half second from bursting into villainous laughter.
This was brought to life by a few interesting fics on the Undertale side of things, and some personal musings about how SOULS would work in Worm.
They are both important, and not as important as you probably think.
==== 1.0 ====
It didn't hurt. Nothing hurt, anymore. Every ache, every broken feeling, gone.
Peace.
I sank in a inky void, surrounded by nothing. No heat. No cold. I moved, but was it really? There was no wind, only the faint sense of falling, in the back of my mind.
No light, but I could see myself. I was whole. Clean, in a way I thought I never would feel again, after what had happened.
If time passed, I didn't notice. What was there to tell the time with, anymore?
A sound woke me. This void had no sound. What was that, then? I looked around, body drifting slowly as I did. Nothing to hold me in place, but yet I still slowed to a stop eventually. I had found the source of the sound, just as it repeated. Someone... crying?
Before me was a heart. In this void it was both far and near, a cracked thing that looked like it was made of glass. A bleeding heart, that seeped red. Another sob, heard through the heart as if a speaker.
I reached out, catching a few drops of red. Or tried. They fell through my colourless hands as if they didn't exist. I felt something, though. Surge of energy if just for a moment.
I reached out again. This time, I took hold of the heart. But as I pulled it toward me, everything faded.
A flash of light. The sounds of cars, of people. A siren, nearby. Had... I escaped from that place? It had been peaceful, yes. But a place to visit, not to stay, I think.
Another flash of light. I was in a bedroom. The light was from outside, a passing car. I guess I wasn't used to light, after spending who knows how long in that darkness. Gravity tugged at me again, as I tried to move. I had missed it. And from how strong it felt, it had missed me, too.
The room, I decided as my vision adjusted, was nice. A bit better than my own, to be honest. Not a lot of personal effects. Some books I couldn't see the titles of on a desk, a few pictures on the wall. But... It felt like a guest room. I looked around a bit more, but was immediately distracted.
The dresser had a mirror. The dim lighting was enough that I could see myself, though not in colour. That, I had learned, didn't matter. I had no colour anymore. Black and white, and mostly colours between. But the rest... Well, I hadn't exactly had a mirror in there.
Despite everything, it was still me. Even with the dark, empty eyes. It was a bit odd, but... I knew something had changed. I was a parahuman, after all. A bit of oddness was expected of me.
It was the sound again. Faint, hard to hear over the sounds of the city outside. A stifled sound I wouldn't have noticed if not for hearing it before. That brought me to the bed of the bedroom. Someone was sleeping, fitfully. Holding back tears even now.
I knew how it was. Moving up to them, I gently tucked them in a bit better, making sure not to wake them. I owed them, for getting me out of that place. And if I had powers... I was going to use them for good. Starting with this person.
I took a seat on the end of the bed, not moving it as much as I thought I would. Had I lost weight? Shaking my head of the thought, I closed my eyes, and threw my memory back. How did that tune go? Ah. That's right. Start like this.
I hummed softly, following a meandering tune in my memories.
------
The sun had risen, and the birds roused me from my drifting doze. After they had calmed down, I had tested a few things out. By focusing, I could see their heart again.... And by the same focus, I could see mine. Slightly deformed, a marbled mix of red and black. I had the feeling it was better this way, than it had before.
The memories from just before the void were not ones I wanted to draw forth. Pulling my own heart into focus, though, had kept it there. The darkness around me pooled, the shadows on my skin dripping and melting into it. Kind of neat looking, if you asked me. With a thought and a bit of will, my heart vanished and the effect faded. Liquid shadow evaporating into nothing.
In the morning light, I could see the room better. It still felt like a guest room in a way. A bit too tidy, for my tastes. The books on the desk were textbooks. The usual school subjects. A student? I didn't take a closer look at them, to narrow it down. A large and rather practical looking backpack sat next to the desk, where I hadn't noticed it in the shadows of the room.
The house itself was waking up from the sound of it, a person passing by the door. One knocked on the door, even.
That woke up the owner of the room, who grumbled a bit. I thought about it, before slipping into a corner of the room. I could have left, sure. Probably a bit safer. But I felt I needed to speak to them. If they needed help, I would help them. To do that... I had to be honest. They probably hadn't been all the way asleep when I came here, after all.
As I watched, they got up, rubbing their eyes. A young girl, who looked a bit tired. I couldn't blame her. If her night was so bad it somehow had reached that dark place...
She got up, and made her bed. She didn't seem to notice me as she dashed about, grabbing an outfit from her closet and rushing for the bathroom. There was something odd about how she moved, I noticed. Zipping along, but somehow doing it while walking.
Time passed, and she returned to her room. She looked less tired now, but only by a bit. She did it again as she closed her door. She took two steps and was somehow at her dresser. Now that I was really looking at it... One step was away from the door. And then the other step was up to the dresser. Between that was nothing. Teleportation?
She stared at the mirror for a second or two, reaching into one of the dresser drawers to grab a small pack of makeup. With practiced ease she started to cover up the bags under her eyes, the general signs of too much stress and not enough sleep.
I knew the signs, after all, having suffered them myself. I didn't bother using makeup, in my case. I might not even need it anymore. That she needed it so young, though... was worrying. With that weird movement, maybe she was a cape? As she finished, I stepped up behind her, hands visible. Didn't want her to take it the wrong way.
She glanced up at the mirror, stared for a moment, before turning around suddenly. Her mouth open, she paused for some reason, and then looked back over her shoulder. She frowned, turning to face my reflection.
"Okay... Who the heck are you, why are you in my mirror, and why the heck shouldn't I be screaming bloody murder right now?" She asked. She sounded very sure of herself. Not unfazed, but something told me she was used to weird tings happening.
"Can you hear this?" I asked. If I was only visible in her mirror, she might not be able to hear me, normally.
She gave me a nod. "Yeah, I can hear you. Doesn't sound like it's from the mirror, though."
I shrugged. "Makes sense. That's just my reflection. I'm not sure why you can't see me normally. But to answer your questions... You can call me... T for now, I guess. I'm not in your mirror, and... I wasn't sure if anyone could see me other than you, considering what happened last night."
"T, huh...? New to the powers business?" I nodded to her, as she continued. "Why would you be... visible in my mirror, but not normally?" She looked at the mirror a bit closer, her expression morphing into surprised. "Oh!"
She made a few vague gestures and a pressure I had put down to being unused to gravity lifted from my shoulders. She turned again, to look at me, and waved.
"So that's something new I learned today. Neat. Anyway, 'T'. What do you mean by 'what happened last night'?"
"It's... hard to explain? I was stuck somewhere. I'm not sure where. I think it might have to do with my powers, or just... trying to get away from... something. But I was stuck in there. I don't know for how long. Last night, though... I noticed something, and trying to interact with it made me pop out in your room. Maybe it was something to do with your power and mine?" I skipped the bit about trying to calm her down... or the whole 'heart' thing.
Probably not the best time.
The young girl winced. "A new trigger, I'm guessing?" At my expression she continued. "Getting your powers, I mean. You might be right, though. I couldn't see you because you were... somehow ignoring my power in a weird way. The mirror thing is because of something I never noticed before. So... You pop out here, and decided to stay to make sure you could be seen... Which I think you're going to be. You cast a shadow and everything."
She paused, another brows scrunching up. "Wait a minute..." She pointed at me, accusingly. "That humming was you?!"
I raised my hands. "Ah... guilty? It was the only thing I could think of! All I knew was that suddenly I was in someone's room and they were... Not sleeping well. I just wanted to help."
Frowning, she crossed her arms. "... Just don't mention it to anymore. Ever."
"Lips are sealed." I mimed zipping my lips.
For a long moment there was silence, before she sighed. "Well, T. There's good and there's bad. Good thing. I can probably help you out. Bad thing. You just made both of our days really, really complicated."
"Uh, really? How so?" I asked.
She just held up a finger, fishing out a small cellphone from... somewhere. Maybe more use of her power? She hit a button and put it to her ear.
"This is V. Sort of have a situation here. No, it's not an emergency. There's a parahuman in my bedroom. Friendly, I'm pretty sure. Usual pickup spot? Right." She hung up. "To answer your question... A lot of pointed questions, and a ton of paperwork. More for me than you on the latter."
She shrugged. "But at least it's better than the usual day in and day out stuff." A grin, as she glanced at me, and then her mirror.
I should probably be worried by her chuckles, after that. She sounded about a half second from bursting into villainous laughter.
======
YET DARKER
Worm/Undertale
======
YET DARKER
Worm/Undertale
======
This was brought to life by a few interesting fics on the Undertale side of things, and some personal musings about how SOULS would work in Worm.
They are both important, and not as important as you probably think.
Quantumsheep
Rank Amateur
- Location
- _
Do you enjoy being pedantic? I'm aware this a classic snippy passive-aggressive sort of question, but I'm genuinely speaking from nothing but curiosity here. Do you actually derive satisfaction from doing that?
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earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You recall the actual topic, right? This is what we're talking about:
It's semi-serious, because I actually do think that certain kinds of flaws will tend to encourage the production of fan-fiction, but I honestly don't see any way to quantify those flaws into the sorts of numbers which could be matched against the other easily available numbers (like the various metrics for the volume of fanfiction).
That's why I said this:
FourthWall responded that there totally was such a thing:
... and then failed to produce any useful metrics. In fact, the whole thing was about taste, categorization, and the stuff editors do to improve a work based on their subjective judgement rather than the sorts of measures which might be suitable for a study.
In other words, it's an "answer" which does not relate to the question, not in so far as I could see.
- - -
In this case, the answer is: not really. It's kinda depressing when someone posts an "answer" which ignores the question -- but hope springs eternal, and perhaps there's an actually relevant answer which I just can't see.
In my response, I'm repeating the part of my post which @FourthWall seems to have not seen the first time through.
It's not even really pedantry -- I'm not making a subtle distinction between two similar things, nor am I claiming that some term has a narrower meaning than is commonly thought.
I'm just trying to get an answer which is actually relevant to the discussion.
- - -
If it sounds snippy, that may be because typing out a long post like this one takes time, and when I'm responding to someone who didn't seem to read a bunch of the words in either my posts or @Hotdog Vendor's posts, it feels inappropriate to spend a lot of time on that response.
- - -
True pedantry is of course vastly enjoyable, because it allows an opportunity for education and edification of others, entertainment of others through humor, and simultaneously also showing off the superiority of one's own intellect.
True pedantry is a sublime pleasure.
This is not it.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also, @LacksCreativity , you mentioned in one of your ACP updates about one possible funding source for heroes being public donations. How much did you think about it, its potential and its limitations?
Is it something directly canon, or something that you thought was plausible considering the course of canon?
Also, has anyone else given thought to this, its potential restrictions and weaknesses, or advantages for that matter?
I now have the amusing picture of a Cape setting up a Not!Patreon.
Is it something directly canon, or something that you thought was plausible considering the course of canon?
Also, has anyone else given thought to this, its potential restrictions and weaknesses, or advantages for that matter?
I now have the amusing picture of a Cape setting up a Not!Patreon.
Stop: NO
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
no
No, not 'one last time'. When you are told 'Stop', that is not a fancy way of saying 'get in one more shot in the argument you were told to stop or take elsewhere'. 25 point infraction.
Infraction expired on appeal due to misunderstanding of moderator instruction..
The minutia of Worm canon is not part of the rules of SV, nor am I here to make a ruling on them. The argument was arguably on topic, however that is also irrelevant to my warning. It was lengthy, pedantic, and getting heated. Keeping the peace here is part of the rules. If you have a concern about the rules or official action, the News, Suggestions, and Management Discussion subforum is where to take it. Not debating it here.
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FourthWall
Love & Destroy
- Location
- Chiraq
Yo, @earthboy: writerly language in books and shit is prescriptive and descriptive. It's what people thought How Writing Should Be to the point that it became How Writing Is. And making sense isn't based on personal metrics when we're talking cohesion/coherence. It's about putting words, sentences, paragraphs and concepts together in a way to present information in an understandable fashion.
And you can go look for, I don't know, KindlePorn and go through for things like cohesion, coherence and use of syntax, then measure them in regards to sales, popularity and what have you. None of the things I said were subjective in any way that wasn't in a post-structuralist "all human measures are subjective because making inferences based on data requires prejudices," sort of way.
And you can go look for, I don't know, KindlePorn and go through for things like cohesion, coherence and use of syntax, then measure them in regards to sales, popularity and what have you. None of the things I said were subjective in any way that wasn't in a post-structuralist "all human measures are subjective because making inferences based on data requires prejudices," sort of way.
- Location
- It's a whole new world we live in
I know that corporate teams were mentioned off hand at one point. And that, if not canon, it's popular fanon in works that make up "spoils" that New Wave is funded through donations.
It would make a certain amount of sense for someone like New Wave to have at least received donations at one point in time, but I don't believe any parahuman group is mentioned as receiving funding from donations.
LacksCreativity
Disgruntled Hunter
I did give it some thought. Not a huge amount, because I knew from the start it wasn't something that would get any focus, but some. Mostly I wanted to have the mention of it highlight Taylor's narrow thought-pattern up to that point. Something obvious that she didn't think of herself, but that was brought up almost immediately by someone once she started talking to them. A different viewpoint, basically.
Not canon, as far as I know, though I wouldn't be surprised if it happened sometimes. It's a sort of low-hanging fruit, in a lot of ways.
That said, there are obvious complications. First, like with any idea I have regarding Worm, I run it through my three-step plausibility test.
1) Is the idea plausible circa 2011? This can include technology, infrastructure, or just if the thing had been invented yet. In this case, Patreon didn't exist in 2011. Kickstarter did, but it wasn't nearly as big a thing.
2) Is the idea plausible on Earth Bet? This is important because Earth Bet is most definitely not our Earth. It's a world that's had over 20 years of slow societal global collapse. The infrastructure isn't going to be as good as ours in 2011, the technology is somewhat behind, and centralized government is weakening. This is something a lot of people forget, when trying to do a rationalist story or a fixfic.
3) Would the idea fit into cape culture? This one is more difficult, of course. Cape culture is mostly about what people can get away with, while presenting a view that doesn't upset the public too much. For villains, that means generally not doing the really nasty stuff in public. For heroes, that means generally not doing the really nasty stuff in public. But for both, it also includes a lot of minor PR things, even if it's as small as only getting into fights after dark, unless you have a good reason to do it during the daytime..
Anyway, public donations to support independent heroes do pass all three parts of the test, but there are obvious caveats. Without Patreon or Kickstarter existing/being big, and with Earth Bet liable to have less robust internet/banking/economy/social-media, chances are that even if a given hero/group gets popular the donations won't be that extensive. More likely they'll be primarily from local sources and quite possibly done in-person through cash, or through a given bank, than they would be online. If they do become a big thing, chances are they'd go through an established organization (possibly a charitable one) rather than a crowd-sourcing site.
There's also the question of how cape culture would affect that. Dealing with a secret identity is just the first step, and would likely mean that it would be difficult to spend donation money outside of the costumed identity. Moreover, it's possible that a donation drive would draw attention, especially if it was successful. Whether that attention be from villains (either regarding the money, or outraged that people are donating money to someone who attacks them) or the IRS, either is bad. It might even be possible for villains to track-down and attack donators.
It's also worth noting that the government probably doesn't really 'let' costumed individuals have a secret identity, it just doesn't actively prevent it. But once money starts changing hands, or contracts are signed, that might not be possible. Legal troubles could be possible. That's even without an attempt to spend donations out-of-costume, and all the possible problems that could cause. "Follow the money" being a thing, after all.
Also, some form of heroing would likely be required before donations started coming in. Taking in a few villains, or at least criminals, or saving some lives. Some proof that the money would be wisely spent.
Those are the complications (or at least the obvious ones), but all that said, I think it's highly plausible. Not on a huge scale (millions of dollars changing hands), at least not without big issues popping up. But for more small-scale stuff (a kickstarter for a costume, or for funds to buy tinkering materials) it might be entirely workable. Certainly enough to offset the opportunity costs of heroing, if not necessarily enough to live off of.
Hotdog Vendor
Author of 'Sisters of Rail'
- Location
- (5 + 3 * sqrt(5)) / 8
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Most of those flaws aren't the sort that (I think) earthboy is saying (iirc) are linked with higher rates of fanfiction though. I think he was referring to higher level flaws. i.e. "X is a decent piece of writing by objective measures, but a lot of people don't like how Y turned out, so there's a lot of fanfic of it." When I suggested that reviews and ratings could be used as a numerical measure of how 'flawed' a title is, I wasn't really addressing the point earthboy actually wanted to make. I think.
I think 'dissatisfaction' is a more applicable term that 'flaws' in this case though. There's a lot of alt-power Taylor fics, not because Skitter's power was flawed, but because a lot of people want to see what she can do with other powers. They aren't satisfied with what they got: not because it was bad, but because they want more but varied. Or if what happened to Sophia and Emma in canon wasn't enough to satisfy readers, they'll want to write fics in which different stuff happened (which some may call 'fix fixs' or 'bashing' depending on their own perspective). Not because the events in canon were necessarily objectively flawed, but because they weren't fully satisfying. I imagine it's very rare for a work to completely satisfy readers, and those that do might only do so because they haven't succeeded in generating much interest, attention, and investment.
Speaking of which, I better get on and write more alt-power Taylor and try to get out one more update this year.
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@LacksCreativity
I've had a few ideas on the subject.
One thing is the the bounty system you mentioned. One approach is that the Bounty system is funded via donation. Simple enough. Do something worthwhile, and you get rewarded an appropriate bounty for it. Just randomly busting thugs doesn't really net anything. Busting them while they are actively up to something? Worth a bit. And so on and so forth. The Bounty system isn't eligible for Protectorate or Wards, though if a Ward is the major player in taking down a serious criminal, they do get a cut of the nominal bounty.
The idea of it would be to control the actions of Independents to a degree, and to give people an outlet to help them. An Independent who is just looking to make money with their heroism won't do something stupid that isn't supported by the Bounty system, because it doesn't get them anything.
The other idea is a sort of Independent Reward system.
Basically, I'm a civvie. I just got my ass saved by a Hero not affiliated with my local branch of the Protectorate, and I want to show them my gratitude. But chances are, I'll never meet them again. So, I go full-hog and basically ask for the Protectorate to pass on my gift of gratitude to the Hero, because they have a better chance of getting in contact with them.
I've had a few ideas on the subject.
One thing is the the bounty system you mentioned. One approach is that the Bounty system is funded via donation. Simple enough. Do something worthwhile, and you get rewarded an appropriate bounty for it. Just randomly busting thugs doesn't really net anything. Busting them while they are actively up to something? Worth a bit. And so on and so forth. The Bounty system isn't eligible for Protectorate or Wards, though if a Ward is the major player in taking down a serious criminal, they do get a cut of the nominal bounty.
The idea of it would be to control the actions of Independents to a degree, and to give people an outlet to help them. An Independent who is just looking to make money with their heroism won't do something stupid that isn't supported by the Bounty system, because it doesn't get them anything.
The other idea is a sort of Independent Reward system.
Basically, I'm a civvie. I just got my ass saved by a Hero not affiliated with my local branch of the Protectorate, and I want to show them my gratitude. But chances are, I'll never meet them again. So, I go full-hog and basically ask for the Protectorate to pass on my gift of gratitude to the Hero, because they have a better chance of getting in contact with them.
LacksCreativity
Disgruntled Hunter
I wasn't really thinking of an official bounty system. More just saying that heroes would have to do some actual work before anyone would consider donating to them. You couldn't really start a kickstarter for costume money if you hadn't brought in any villains and expect to get much, for example.
Anyway, the issue with your ideas is that you're thinking of why it would work, rather than why it wouldn't. That's the purpose of my check-list up there, to consider the possible pitfalls of such a system.
First of all, it'd be pretty easy to abuse. Without a means of positively identifying someone, how are you going to assure that the donations go to the right spot? Costumes can be replicated, and so could many powers. Masters/strangers exist too. Clearly you couldn't ask for ID, because that would defeat the point. That's not even considering the possibilities of deliberate fraud, rather than theft or misrepresentation. A villain wouldn't likely have much trouble switching costumes and making some quick cash.
The only real way to solve those (and all the other problems I'm too lazy to write out) would be to regulate the bounty system fairly heavily. In real life, bounty hunters have to be licensed and registered, and they're often liable in any number of ways for harm done or crimes committed in the pursuit of a criminal. So what happens if a hero takes down a villain, but blows up someone's car? Legally, you can't really ignore that. Well, maybe you could sometimes, but eventually you'll have to prosecute.
See, while independents are unregulated and unrewarded, you can sort of just... ignore that what they're doing is illegal. Let them hide behind masks, and only pursue them if they really go too far. Like Shadow Stalker. It's not like anything she did before pinning a guy to a wall was any less illegal, or anything. There were just larger concerns. So how would you go about giving money to people like her for their activities?
More than that, what happens if it comes out in the news that you were paying out lots of money to a cape that then turned villain, or caused the death of a civilian, or destroyed a building? What about something as small as a really racist hero, who stays independent because he doesn't want to be forced to help (hated race here)? Do you pay out bounty money to him when he captures a villain, despite him going off on racist rants in front of news camera (who obviously follow him around to get more footage, because that's always good for views)?
See, this is where point two on my checklist comes in.
In this case, we have to ask whether a system like that would be possible to get implemented in the first place, by a government that's obviously afraid of out-of-control parahumans. They were mentioned to be pushing for regulation in Alexandria's interlude, after all. Would they, in the face of rising numbers of capes, be willing to put such a system in place? Make it legal (because make no mistake, there would be legal hurdles there)? And if they did, would it survive the decade+ of pressure, screw-ups, scandals, and abuse? Or would the system fail and fade out?
Keep in mind, for it to stick around it can't just be a zero-sum thing, some neutral policy that helps out the little guys (independents) without working in favor of the government/PRT. If they can't prove that it gives them a measure of control over independents (through statistics, if nothing else) then it'll get canned and the funding shifted to something else, like Endbringer recovery, which is more obviously necessary.
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I don't see why it would need a web-based platform like patron or kickstarter. Like Lacks said, most teams would only really be operating on a level of local interests, so a 'normal' charity would work just as well. Surely there's ways to obscure the corporate veil, though I'm more familiar with it masking the donators, not the donatee. Surely the Bet Supreme court passed Citizens United decades ago. I forgot, does numberman just work for villians, or does he do contract work for rogues/independents too?
Also, re the fandom popularity argument, yeah, I'm not actually sure what prompted the worm explosion. ZnT was obvious in retrospect, it had a framing device that let it act as a pretty much blank slate to blatently insert whatever SI/crossover character you wanted. Kinda sorta not really like Ranma and it's propensity to support random slice of life antics?
Also, re the fandom popularity argument, yeah, I'm not actually sure what prompted the worm explosion. ZnT was obvious in retrospect, it had a framing device that let it act as a pretty much blank slate to blatently insert whatever SI/crossover character you wanted. Kinda sorta not really like Ranma and it's propensity to support random slice of life antics?
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
I think it's because the alt-power allows similar levels of crossoverness, which then creates a feedback cycle where it's popular because it's popular. It's also well-written, which helps.
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Eh, I'm not sure how much that matters. After all, ZnT was the previous fad fandom, and the writing in that is....not really that great.