World On Fire: Shadow Ops [a Fantasy WWII Quest]

[Taut_Templar]

...I'm not sure if you know this, but literally the entire quest has been small groups of magicals taking installations or flying craft or whatever else. We don't need to be specifically told, it's been demonstrated over and over already.

Anyway, if onmyouji can put up a literal wall of danmaku the planes are 100% dead to no effect. It's undefendable and unavoidable for them. We have to be making aggressive moves to force them to do something else. That's not out of character, that's acknowledging what the reality of the battle is.

Click to shrink...

The thing I'm trying to clarify to you is that the situation we're currently in is not a special operations mission, it is the frontline of one of the most pivotal battles of the second world war. We're in a very different situation than we've encountered in the rest of the quest, and thus we need to act differently. Aircraft carriers are not zeppelins, and we absolutely shouldn't treat them like one.

I mean, hypothetically, if a team of magically inclined spec-ops was to sneak onboard an aircraft carrier at night, they could probably do a lot of damage, especially if they'd brought explosives or there was an important figure on board, etc. But sending six normal Witches to launch an attack on the Kido Butai in broad daylight during the middle of a battle is ... suicide. And unlike the Devastators, who're admittedly facing a similar situation, they don't have torpedos to make that suicide run worth it - there's simply no amount of damage they could inflict with BARs and hand grenades that'd meaningfully inconvenience an aircraft carrier. Most of all, unlike the planes which are zooming in and out, those Witches would need to stay there for a period of time. It's not that the "onmyouji" are invincible, it's that the Witches are outnumbered by a ludicrous degree and would quickly be overwhelmed by even the mundane members of the IJN.

 

[Yun]

Aight info obtained, so:

Did you know that onmyoji can fly? Best hope the Shrine Maiden of Paradise isn't on board any of the carriers here or there might be some serious problems.

The good news is that while ofuda all have specific effects dictated by the inscriptions on the cards, they're generally slower than rifle bullets. Further, a lot of ofuda users go for quantity over quality, and the effects of individual ones can be quite weak.

The bad news is that they have to have those specific effects or they don't work at all, so if one hits you, it will do something.

Click to shrink...

Yea that is what figured, and are we talking expy, or just a reference? Because the fact Youkai are going to be killing humans hopefully implies we aren't dealing with a vaguely defined protagonist OP powers Shrine Maiden of Paradise.

Also she is liable to be less bullet storm, and more quality focused due to being lazy, but in general I've been expecting them to get at least an extra carrier surviving the attack.

I'm trying to cook up something clever. The basic idea is that we want to make the enemy tunnel-vision on the squadron's Witches instead of the vulnerable Torpedo bombers, but we also can't assume our subordinates will be able to handle that kind of heat. Thus, the hypothetical plan is to copy what the OTL fighter pilots did in this situation - manuver together as a group in a way that prevents the Japanese's superior experience from showing in a way that drags the dogfights out for as long as possible. Meanwhile, we keep Shizuko and maybe a few others free to serve as a QRF, to deal with magical bullshit or to bail out anyone who gets in over their heads.

Historically, this worked really well, but the TBs still ended up getting hammered when the CAP meant to protect the Japanese carriers against dive bombers dropped out of position to attack them. Even if the only thing we accomplish is the same thing, that'll still leave Yorktown's Torpedo bombers in a much better position to launch their runs.

Click to shrink...

Hm. Well the thing to keep in mind is that the zero is liable to be faster than everyone except Shizuko once they start a dive, and in general baiting them into high speed maneuvers will work better as the zero loses maneuverability at that point iirc.

The issue is that there is going to be an odd witch out who would normally be with Shizuko is lacking a broom to keep up.

 

[Taut_Templar]

A proposed modification of @Thebigpieman's plan:

-[ ] Escort Flights 1 & 2 are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
-[ ] Escort Flight 3 will meanwhile act as a QRF, engaging the Japanese Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to Devastators, at their own discretion.

The Thach Weave is a clever little trick that especially plays havoc with the often tunnel-visioning Japanese Zeros, tying them down and wasting their minimal stores of fuel and ammunition. The Shrine Maidens are a potential wild card that can disrupt this plan - I'm guessing they'll act similarly to the rest of the Japanese CAP, but should they prove otherwise we have Shizuko free to act as a hammer.

@Zoosmell - is this a viable proposal? Having Shizoku organically come up with her own version of the Thach Weave is perhaps a stretch, but fundamentally she's in the same position as John, trying to figure out how to make a bunch of outnumbered, inferior pilots hold off a larger force of superior pilots for a short period of time. It's not inconceivable she'd arrive at a similar conclusion. I'm not sure how well the rest of the Witches would be able to pick it up on the fly, but Brooms are a lot less complex than airplanes and it's really not that difficult of a maneuver - more of a continuation of their previous doctrine to avoid dogfights and work as a group, just with some details as how to accomplish that.

 

[Icipall]

USN: "If we have no idea what we're doing, the enemy will never be able to predict our plan!"

Click to shrink...

USN and IJN on the Pacific Theater in a nutshell.

is this a viable proposal? Having Shizoku organically come up with her own version of the Thach Weave is perhaps a stretch, but fundamentally she's in the same position as John, trying to figure out how to make a bunch of outnumbered, inferior pilots hold off a larger force of superior pilots for a short period of time.

Click to shrink...

If nothing else, it could be decided with a roll if is Shizuko capable of coming up with a version of the Thach Weave on the fly.

 

[Taut_Templar]

If nothing else, it could be decided with a roll if is Shizuko capable of coming up with a version of the Thach Weave on the fly.

Click to shrink...

My idea was that she's been thinking this up for a while similar to how the actual John Thach did. Where there's some ambiguity is if the rest of the Witches in the squadron could pick it up without having practiced it beforehand, but I'm banking on the relative simplicity of the maneuver and broomsticks being a lot less complex than airplanes making this plausible.

Seeing as it's been a considerable amount of time and we still haven't settled on a plan, if the QM doesn't weigh in on the viability of my proposal I think I'm going to submit a plan and hope for the best.

 

[Thebigpieman]

Well I'll just post the edit in regardless of future QM input.

[X] Air Defense Plan V2: This Is What V2 Is For.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 Elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2 are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3 will meanwhile act as a QRF, engaging the Japanese Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to Devastators, at their own discretion.

Might need to write another one anyways later but hey, a plan is a plan.

 

[tygerbright]

[x] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [x] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford
[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

 

[Taut_Templar]

Well I'll just post the edit in regardless of future QM input.

[X] Air Defense Plan V2: This Is What V2 Is For.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 Elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2 are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3 will meanwhile act as a QRF, engaging the Japanese Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to Devastators, at their own discretion.

Might need to write another one anyways later but hey, a plan is a plan.

Click to shrink...

I'm mulling over if we want to add more detail. Do we need to further specify the positioning of our various elements? I'm thinking we want the first and second elements to stick close to the Devastators so they benefit from their umbrella of fire/close formation, and avoid what happened OTL with another wave of CAP swooping in and killing the torpedo bombers once the escort has been engaged. Similarly, I like the idea of Element 3 flying above the formation.

 

[Thebigpieman]

I'm mulling over if we want to add more detail. Do we need to further specify the positioning of our various elements? I'm thinking we want the first and second elements to stick close to the Devastators so they benefit from their umbrella of fire/close formation, and avoid what happened OTL with another wave of CAP swooping in and killing the torpedo bombers once the escort has been engaged. Similarly, I like the idea of Element 3 flying above the formation.

Click to shrink...

Hmmm...

[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

Any other ideas?

 

[Taut_Templar]

Any other ideas?

Click to shrink...

I have a few, but we need to balance the need to come up with something clever to avoid what happened IRL vs. making a plan too complex to be reasonably implemented by a bunch of regular witches we just met. I think we've got a good balance here, although we should specify Shizuko is supposed to be in Element 3 like in your original plan.

[X] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

 

[Thebigpieman]

although we should specify Shizuko is supposed to be in Element 3 like in your original plan.

Click to shrink...

Oh yeah that's probably important, I'll just back port that...

 

[Icipall]

[X] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

 

[Cute Princess]

[X] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

 

[Zoosmell]

I'm away from home for work all weekend, so I won't start the votelock countdown until Monday.

 

[Yun]

[X] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

[X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
-[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
--[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
--[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

 

[baud]

[X] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
- [X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

 

[Zoosmell]

Vote lock in 24 hours.

 

[Zoosmell]

Scheduled vote count started by Zoosmell on May 12, 2021 at 9:38 PM, finished with 42 posts and 8 votes.

• Posts

  11

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  5 people have voted

  [x] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
  -[X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford
  [X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
  -[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
  --[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
  --[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
  ---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

  • tygerbright
  • Taut_Templar
  • Icipall
  • Cute Princess
  • Yun

  2 people have voted

  [x] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)
  -[X] Abbie Rosales, Mira Conner, Elsie Mccray, Emma Green, Lily Robertson, Sophia Wilson, Jasmine Lane, Kiara Barber, Evie Blankenship, Isabelle White, Camille Bradford

  • Icipall
  • baud

  1 people have voted

  [x] You see remembering their names as your duty as squadron leader - it's a small thing, but it may help build trust (Come up with them)

  • silentorphan

  1 people have voted

  [X] Air Defense Plan V1
  -[X] Split Witches into 3 Elements of 4.
  --[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Maintain perimeter against incoming IJN fighters and witches.
  --[X] Escort Flight 3: Hold above TBD formation. 3a and 3b will dive on anything that breaks through the perimeter, alternating as necessary. 3a will additionally provide support to perimeter flights if required.
  ---[X] Shizuko will command 3a.

  • Thebigpieman

  1 people have voted

  [X] Air Defense Plan V2: This Is What V2 Is For.
  -[X] Split Witches into 3 Elements of 4.
  --[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2 are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
  --[X] Escort Flight 3 will meanwhile act as a QRF, engaging the Japanese Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to Devastators, at their own discretion.

  • Thebigpieman

  1 people have voted

  [X] Air Defense Plan V3: All Along The Watchtower.
  -[X] Split Witches into 3 flight elements of 4.
  --[X] Escort Flights 1 & 2: Flights will provide early warning and cover to TBD elements, Keeping hostiles out of formation blindspots and forcing them into the sights of the TBDs rear gunners. Flights are to implement a modified version of the Thach Weave, a maneuver designed to prevent the Japanese Zeros from engaging in the individual dogfights they dominate in. Each Element will remain composed of the original pairs the Navy has assigned, and when attacked by the enemy planes the duos will weave in and out in a way that prevents the Zeros from getting a kill without seriously exposing themselves.
  --[X] Escort Flight 3: Flight will position themselves above the formation and act as a QRF, diving in to engaging IJN Onmyoji that attempt to break this paradigm, assisting friendly Witches that are being overwhelmed, or providing cover to TBDs, at their own discretion.
  ---[X] Shizuko will command EF-3.

  • Thebigpieman

 

[Zoosmell]

[><] Air Defense Plan (v3)

At once, a plan formulates itself in your head.

"Bradford, Conner, Lane, Blankenship, team 1. You'll provide escort for the TBDs. Keep the Imps out of the steelwings' blind spots, and herd anything soft enough into their tail guns. They're torpedo bombers, don't even give them the temptation of chasing after fighters if you can avoid it. Take the left side."

"Port," interrupts Mira. You ignore her. TBDs are planes, even if they are called "ships", it's left.

"Rosales, McCray, Green, Robertson, team 2. Same thing, on the right." You shoot Mira a look before she can correct you.

"Wilson, Barber, White, with me. We're overwatch. Any Imp witches or onmyoji show up, or anything 1 or 2 can't handle, we bounce them." You look towards groups 1 and 2 as they start to take formation, and switch to radio.

<<I want to try something I overheard a pilot talking about . Stay in groups of twos. If someone focuses on you, weave across your buddy's path, try and get 'em in their sights. If it works as well as the guy's confidence made it sound like it did, it should handle just about anything.>>

As if in challenge to your statement, the hairs on the back of your neck stick up. You turn your head around and look up.

Out of the sun, already lining up for a shot - Zeroes and a handful of onmyoji.

Three rolls: 2 d10s (separate), one for the Zeroes and one for the onmyoji, and 1d20. Rolls continue for 48 hours (or until someone rolls a 1 for the d20, but "voting" will stay open), so 9 AM CST Monday.

 

[baud]

let's roll

edit: whew

baud threw 1 10-faced dice. Total: 10

 

[Icipall]

Out of the sun, already lining up for a shot - Zeroes and a handful of onmyoji.

Click to shrink...

And here we go.

Edit.
Why are our rolls for the enemies so good!?

Icipall threw 1 10-faced dice. Reason: Onmyoji Total: 7

 

[Taut_Templar]

<<I want to try something I overheard a pilot talking about . Stay in groups of twos. If someone focuses on you, weave across your buddy's path, try and get 'em in their sights. If it works as well as the guy's confidence made it sound like it did, it should handle just about anything.>>

As if in challenge to your statement, the hairs on the back of your neck stick up. You turn your head around and look up.

Out of the sun, already lining up for a shot - Zeroes and a handful of onmyoji.

Click to shrink...

Alright, let's see if our plan survives contact with the enemy.

 

[tygerbright]

Well, this first round feels like a bloody wake-up call.

tygerbright threw 1 20-faced dice. Total: 20

 

[Icipall]

What the fuck are these rolls!? Well, at least we have no reason to reroll that d20.

 

[Thebigpieman]

Is this good?