Winter's Wings: A Tremian Tale (Original ttrpg-Inspired Quest)

Vote off between tied classes or let rolls stand?

  • Vote off

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Rolls stand

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .
Hypnotism isn't all about directly lying to someone. It's about tricking the senses into believing something is or isn't there, when the opposite is true. And when in doubt, go with the age old saying, "When trying to decieve another, you must first deceive yourself." If we went with the rare technique of hypnoztizin ourselves to hypnotize an enemy, we could find a very niche and humorous path to success.

Though the Pride and Honest combination is a bit interesting to work with, considering we have a Trickery class. But that's the fun of no plan voting—sometimes you get unforeseen options. I did try to push for Focused twice, but that fell flat on its face.
(I wrote this awhile ago and forgot.)

[X] Blush of Youth (100 years)
[X] Male
[X] Solvaron Solavan Rolosavon
[X] MalgraIvan Wingtip
[X] Elven Enclave

I might as well try to make a plan. There'll surely be better ones, but at least I can claim the title of first!

[X] Focused
[X] Kind

[X] Unnaturally Average
[X] Beautiful

[X] Ganymede Fritz: The Mercenary
 
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[X] Young Master
[X] Male
[X] Meneltarial
[X] Solvaron

[X] Further Afield
[X] Mirror Marches
[X] Integrated Orphan
[X] Wild Child

[X] Materialistic
[X] Reckless
[X] Serious

[X] Slender
[X] Striking

[X] Ganymede Fritz: The Mercenary

A little explanation of the plan.

Elf male - no comment, it's just easier to associate yourself with him.

Why 150 years? The average time for which we have already learned something, but did not have time to stiffen in convictions.

We are from distant lands and this gives the author a unique opportunity to describe the reality of Mulgrave as if from the outside. Life hack we get information about two countries at once thanks to comparisons. Clever.

This backstory explains well why we are an Slayer/Mesmerist. But the main thing is not this. The main thing is that in this version we CONSCIOUSLY made this choice. We could choose absolutely anything, we were not limited by the family, we were not pressured by the environment. The first was not, and the second we were indifferent. And this, in my opinion, is a very important nuance in the development of our hero. An honest and Proud man who survived on the street, but who voluntarily became a Slayer and a Mesmerist.
I want to read this flashback.
 
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So... We had no plans before, no reason to start now.

[X] Blush of Youth (100 years old)
[X] Female
[X] Solvaron
[X] Aenen Urui: The Grifter
[X] Aelvesh Dominion
[X] Mirror Marches
[X] Dominion Noble (requires Birthplace: Aelvesh Dominion)
[X] Elven Enclave
[X] Wild Child

These backstories contrast a lot with each other, but I like any of them.

[X] Compassionate
[X] Kind
[X] Just
[X] Hopeful

We already have one neutral (Honesty) and one negative trait (Pride). The character must have at least one good trait.

[X] Noble

[X] Aenen Urui: The Grifter
 
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Eternal_0bserver said:
We already have one neutral (Honesty) and one negative trait (Pride). The character must have at least one good trait.
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You live in a strange world where honesty is not considered a positive trait. But Honesty is one of the virtues.o_O

Lol. Only now I realized that in English there is no division into "light" and "dark" pride. In transcription, this would be "gordost'" and "gordynya". The first is a bright feeling when a father sees the success of his child and he is proud of him, when the surgeon performed a ten-hour operation and is proud of the work done. The second is when a person is so withdrawn into himself, into his feelings, that he became arrogant and began to belittle other people and their achievements.

I thought that our pride is closer to the "light" meaning. Tipo: Yes, I am dangerous, I know it, I know my worth and I will not allow myself to be mistreated.
 
[X] Plan: Brash Elven Youth
-[x] Blush of Youth (100 years old)
-[x] Male
-[x] Solvaron
-[x] Elven Enclave
-[x] Mirror Marches

[X] Reckless
[X] Naïve:
[X] Extroverted

[X] Noble
[X] Striking
[X] Beautiful

[X] Matthias Moss: The Backwoodsman
 
Bylba said:
You live in a strange world where honesty is not considered a positive trait. But Honesty is one of the virtues.o_O
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Honesty in and of itself is neither a good nor a bad trait. For example, a lich who hates all living things and does not hide it is honest, but you would hardly say that he is a better person because of this. Likewise, a local hero who likes to exaggerate her exploits, but at the same time genuinely cares about the people she protects, does not become the worst person because of the habit of lying.

Bylba said:
Lol. Only now I realized that in English there is no division into "light" and "dark" pride. In transcription, this would be "gordost'" and "gordynya". The first is a bright feeling when a father sees the success of his child and he is proud of him, when the surgeon performed a ten-hour operation and is proud of the work done. The second is when a person is so withdrawn into himself, into his feelings, that he became arrogant and began to belittle other people and their achievements.

I thought that our pride is closer to the "light" meaning. Tipo: Yes, I am dangerous, I know it, I know my worth and I will not allow myself to be mistreated.
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And as you have already noticed, in English there is no special word for each meaning of Pride. This usually means that each and every one of them is correct, which is quite common. And considering that the most unpleasant manifestations of this trait are directed at other people, this is a negative trait. Especially for honest people who won't politely keep quiet about how low their opinion of you really is.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
Honesty in and of itself is neither a good nor a bad trait. For example, a lich who hates all living things and does not hide it is honest, but you would hardly say that he is a better person because of this. Likewise, a local hero who likes to exaggerate her exploits, but at the same time genuinely cares about the people she protects, does not become the worst person because of the habit of lying.



And as you have already noticed, in English there is no special word for each meaning of Pride. This usually means that each and every one of them is correct, which is quite common. And considering that the most unpleasant manifestations of this trait are directed at other people, this is a negative trait. Especially for honest people who won't politely keep quiet about how low their opinion of you really is.
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It's a pity, but our views are different.:(

Indeed, a lich's honesty makes him better than he could be, and a hero's lies make him worse than he could be.

So I would rather be in the company of a lich, he is honest, he is predictable in his honesty.

Probably the shade of pride will be influenced by origin. If we were raised in a closed enclave or dominion, we would rather lean towards the dark spectrum. If we were integrated, or a traveler, then more likely to the light spectrum. Although these are just my thoughts.
 
Bylba said:
It's a pity, but our views are different.:(

Indeed, a lich's honesty makes him better than he could be, and a hero's lies make him worse than he could be.

So I would rather be in the company of a lich, he is honest, he is predictable in his honesty.
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Well, that's exactly what you said - preferences. The lich will simply kill you without saying a word, while the hero may well risk her life to help. For me, the question of which of them is better as a person is pretty straightforward.

Bylba said:
Probably the shade of pride will be influenced by origin. If we were raised in a closed enclave or dominion, we would rather lean towards the dark spectrum. If we were integrated, or a traveler, then more likely to the light spectrum. Although these are just my thoughts.
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The origin will certainly affect the specifics of Pride, but the fact that this trait is one of the key traits for the character of the hero means that there can be negative parts to it. A simple sense of self-worth would hardly be a separate feature - this is what most people have. And you know, when you're a century-old member of a powerful and long-lived species, there's nothing strange about considering yourself better than others. Especially when you are also a capable fighter.
 
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Eternal_0bserver said:
And you know, when you're a century-old member of a powerful and long-lived species, there's nothing strange about considering yourself better than others. Especially when you are also a capable fighter.
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When you are a representative of a powerful and long-lived species that has 2 countries on the continent, while one of them is in the wastelands that no one needs, and the second is an isolationist regional power. So to speak. There is a nuance.

How capable a fighter we are will determine our age, and despite the fact that in three plans we are a hundred years old, we cannot be called a serious fighter. We will be 17, even for a genius this is not enough.
 
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Bylba said:
When you are a representative of a powerful and long-lived species that has 2 countries on the continent, while one of them is in the wastelands that no one needs, and the second is an isolationist regional power. So to speak. There is a nuance.

How capable a fighter we are will determine our age, and despite the fact that in three plans we are a hundred years old, we cannot be called a serious fighter. We will be 17, even for a genius this is not enough.
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The main reason why humanoids occupy more territory in this world is that there are simply more of them. Not something you can be particularly proud of. Oh, sure, they're still better than the goblins, but that doesn't sound like much of an achievement, does it? This is basic civility.

We all give different assessments of phenomena in the world around us. Pride, especially honest pride, means that you see the parts you excel at as more significant than other areas where you don't.

And the one who does not succeed as a fighter would hardly become the protagonist of this quest.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
The main reason why humanoids occupy more territory in this world is that there are simply more of them. Not something you can be particularly proud of. Oh, sure, they're still better than the goblins, but that doesn't sound like much of an achievement, does it? This is basic civility.

We all give different assessments of phenomena in the world around us. Pride, especially honest pride, means that you see the parts you excel at as more significant than other areas where you don't.

And the one who does not succeed as a fighter would hardly become the protagonist of this quest.
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The main reason why humanoids occupy more territories is because they are stronger. There are many more ants on Earth, and about twice as many rats. However, it is man who rules the earth. It's not about numbers, it's about strength. The elves are strong enough to have at least something. However. Where are our empires? Where is our influence? If we have influence, it is very indirect. Bribes, blackmail, murder. I doubt that the elves (we) are able to come to the Mirror Kingdoms and tell them how to live. Is it strength? Is this power?

I consider this rather than pride, but professional deformation. We have a saying "If you are a hammer, everything else looks like nails to you." Naturally, each person considers his work very important. The main point here is how important you consider the work of other people. But we do not know the attitude of our hero to this.

How far we have ALREADY succeeded is a big question. How successful we are is up to us. And I have no confidence that we will not fail the first quest and go as a slave to the colonies.
 
Bylba said:
The main reason why humanoids occupy more territories is because they are stronger. There are many more ants on Earth, and about twice as many rats. However, it is man who rules the earth. It's not about numbers, it's about strength. The elves are strong enough to have at least something. However. Where are our empires? Where is our influence? If we have influence, it is very indirect. Bribes, blackmail, murder. I doubt that the elves (we) are able to come to the Mirror Kingdoms and tell them how to live. Is it strength? Is this power?
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And it's a very humanoid-centric narrative. The elves probably don't even think they need all this space that the humanoids take up. And even if, by uniting, they achieved something significant in their own eyes, this does not change the fact that each of them individually does not correspond, except for a very few special ones.

As you can see, it all depends on the point of view.

Bylba said:
I consider this rather than pride, but professional deformation. We have a saying "If you are a hammer, everything else looks like nails to you." Naturally, each person considers his work very important. The main point here is how important you consider the work of other people. But we do not know the attitude of our hero to this.
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I'm talking rather not about professional deformation, but about the usual bias of thinking. For example, if you consider the profession of a doctor to be better than any other, you will strive to become one. And when you do that, you'll feel better about other professions because of it.

In fact, the point for pride can be very arbitrary. Someone can be proud of how cleverly he deceives people, even if many do not see this as a reason for pride.
 
[X] Young Master (150 years old)
[X] Female
[x] Solvaron
[X] Aelvesh Dominion
[X] Further Afield

[X] Dominion Noble (requires Birthplace: Aelvesh Dominion)
[X] Dominion Ward
[X] Elven Enclave

[X] Hopeful
[X] Kind
[X] Materialistic
[X] Naïve
[X] Serious

[x] Noble
[x] Beautiful
[x] Scarred
[x] Striking
[x] Tall

[X] Ganymede Fritz: The Mercenary
[X] Tassis: The Wanderer
 
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@Bylba @Eternal_0bserver If you don't mind, I'd like to weigh in on this intense discussion.

On inherent value of personality traits: The way that I tried to write the personality traits was intended to be up to interpretation. Pride can lead someone to be honorable (which is broadly positive) or haughty (which is broadly negative). Your backstory and your actions in the Quest will shed light on where you fall along that spectrum. Similarly, Honesty can be used cruelly or kindly. Someone who delights in telling brutal truths to those unprepared for them uses honesty in an evil way. Even affability or kindness can be a negative trait, if it is used to support cruelty or greed.

Being open to interpretation on the personality traits is a feature, not a bug. That being said, each one does have inherent qualities or there would be no differentiation between them. "Honesty" alone doesn't make a person good or evil but I prefer it over dishonesty. Neither does "pride" determine moral standing.

Anyways... I just want to affirm that I think you've both made very good points!

On the topic of age: Any of the listed age is appropriate for the skill level you'll have at the start of the story. If you choose 100 years old, you will physically and mentally be the equivalent of a late-teens human. However, that's not a perfect comparison. Elves don't learn any slower than humanoids, they just stay in developmental phases for longer. It's a sort of rough thing... conceptually and a source of great discomfort for Elders that find themselves living among Humanoids, which is a hard thing to avoid in Tremia.

On the topic of strength of Elders vs. Humanoids: This ties in to what I was talking about above. In a single lifetime, an exceptional human can reach what is considered the pinnacle of strength. After 100, a sufficiently motivated Elder can do the same thing in the same time span. After reaching this pinnacle, one can grow stronger but the rate of increase slows exponentially.

Effectively, only the exceptional Humanoid reaches the pinnacle of strength but every Elder who attempts it will reach it within their lifetimes. And exceptional Elder who have been pursuing power for centuries may be significantly stronger than any Humanoid has ever been. However, not to the point where they're completely invincible. Humanoids, as a species, are stronger than the Elder. A large part of that strength is in their numbers and in their ability to replenish them. In a war, every Elven casualty needs at least 100 years to be replaced while Humanoids can do it in 20, or fewer.

Yet, the individual Elder does tend to be much more skilled than the individual Humanoid. The thing is, no one knows for certain how the quantity of Humanoids would measure up to the quality of the Elders, should such an awful and impossible thing as a unified race war happen. There are many opinions on the matter.

I hope this has provided a little bit of context!
 
Bylba said:
Can you provide context for this message? I just didn't see Messmerist's influence in the side story. Maybe I didn't look there. Perhaps the past abbot was a Mesmerist?
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Sorry! That was a little confusing.

What I had meant was that I had planned on adding in a vote on the Mesmerist on top of the sidestory but I decided to go ahead with the poll instead.

The Brother Superior was a very low level Cleric, actually. In my mind, he was a good man who internalized some bad ideas.
 
CoatRackRanger said:
@Bylba @Eternal_0bserver

On the topic of strength of Elders vs. Humanoids: This ties in to what I was talking about above. In a single lifetime, an exceptional human can reach what is considered the pinnacle of strength. After 100, a sufficiently motivated Elder can do the same thing in the same time span. After reaching this pinnacle, one can grow stronger but the rate of increase slows exponentially.

Effectively, only the exceptional Humanoid reaches the pinnacle of strength but every Elder who attempts it will reach it within their lifetimes. And exceptional Elder who have been pursuing power for centuries may be significantly stronger than any Humanoid has ever been. However, not to the point where they're completely invincible. Humanoids, as a species, are stronger than the Elder. A large part of that strength is in their numbers and in their ability to replenish them. In a war, every Elven casualty needs at least 100 years to be replaced while Humanoids can do it in 20, or fewer.

Yet, the individual Elder does tend to be much more skilled than the individual Humanoid. The thing is, no one knows for certain how the quantity of Humanoids would measure up to the quality of the Elders, should such an awful and impossible thing as a unified race war happen. There are many opinions on the matter.

I hope this has provided a little bit of context!
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One more question, if you will.

How acute is the theme of death in elven culture? I just read one novel where the elves had very big problems with birth and because of this they were very afraid of death. And they were especially scared if someone kidnapped or killed their relatives, so a group of liquidators was sent for each such case. The principle "We do not negotiate with terrorists."
Actually, because of this fear of death, they progressed more slowly and more accurately, but on average they were better than people. But at higher levels the situation was more interesting. There was a very conditional parity, because hundreds of humanoids died, but purely according to statistics, there were more of those who were lucky and who "pumped" to the highest level.

As a result, such a situation appeared that an elf could be a conditional Spear Master and a Fire Master, but what difference does it make if people are able to set up three separate masters who are narrow specialists, but there are simply more of them.

Is any of this true for your universe?
 
Bylba said:
One more question, if you will.

How acute is the theme of death in elven culture? I just read one novel where the elves had very big problems with birth and because of this they were very afraid of death. And they were especially scared if someone kidnapped or killed their relatives, so a group of liquidators was sent for each such case. The principle "We do not negotiate with terrorists."
Actually, because of this fear of death, they progressed more slowly and more accurately, but on average they were better than people. But at higher levels the situation was more interesting. There was a very conditional parity, because hundreds of humanoids died, but purely according to statistics, there were more of those who were lucky and who "pumped" to the highest level.

As a result, such a situation appeared that an elf could be a conditional Spear Master and a Fire Master, but what difference does it make if people are able to set up three separate masters who are narrow specialists, but there are simply more of them.

Is any of this true for your universe?
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It goes place by place. Different Enclaves have unique cultures and unique views. They have commonalities, of course, but Elven culture doesn't exist as a monolith. The Dominion has some claim to possessing "Elven Culture" but it isn't wholly accurate.

Pedantic rambling aside (sorry, I couldn't help myself), Elves here have a birth rate problem because of biology.

What can be broadly said is that few Elves, few Elders in general, die of old age. It's pretty much widely accepted that either sickness, accident, or violence will kill you. There's no conception, no obsession, with living to an old age and passing when it is your time, like you find in human societies, both in Tremia and in the real world.

Because of this, some elves simply don't think about death. It doesn't loom over them and, if they live lives that don't tend to put them in danger, they might not really expect to ever die. Others fear it because they know that it will probably be awful and painful when it does come.

Rather than death, Elders who spend a lot of time around Humanoids are acutely aware of their extended periods of vulnerability at the beginnings of their lives. Elder are children for much longer than any other species.

Sorry about the relatively brief response, I have to run but please ask follow-up questions and I'll get to them when I can.
 
To persuade a little to what I can fro my own plan—the Starry-Eyed Youngster is a path that allows for growth. If we're in the beginnings of being an adventurer it means we have 'all the time in the world' to become great and use our potential how we please.

The Malgravian Wingtip and Elven Enclave combination ensures that we have a strong and reliable support system and fallback. It means that our family has struck itself out as strong and able to hold their own, existing in our home region for thousands of years. We learned out strength at the feet of those much more powerful than us, so if we ever neeed a training arc, home's just right around the corner. Plus, we'll get to have interesting interactions with the Fleeting members of our party, with us teaching them stuff about our life and vice versa.

And…uh…I just like the name. Alliteration's cool and all, right?

Unnaturally Average for looks just seems to fit the role of Mesmerist. Being so normal that you can be overlooked or misremembered and definitely potentially misdirect through use of your skills seems pretty important, and standing out too much looks like a detriment to the class.

I think Fritz's nice.
 
Given that the plans have not gained much popularity, parts of them will probably just be counted along with the regular votes:

Adhoc vote count started by Eternal_0bserver on Feb 4, 2023 at 8:25 PM, finished with 19 posts and 5 votes.
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Eternal_0bserver said:
Given that the plans have not gained much popularity, parts of them will probably just be counted along with the regular votes:
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This is a good idea but it unfairly disadvantages people who voted in plans by not giving them the opportunity to cast votes as widely as they might approve of. It ends up punishing the people who followed instructions.

Yet, I don't have any better ideas? I need some time to think.
 
Nigerian Duck said:
To persuade a little to what I can fro my own plan—the Starry-Eyed Youngster is a path that allows for growth. If we're in the beginnings of being an adventurer it means we have 'all the time in the world' to become great and use our potential how we please.

The Malgravian Wingtip and Elven Enclave combination ensures that we have a strong and reliable support system and fallback. It means that our family has struck itself out as strong and able to hold their own, existing in our home region for thousands of years. We learned out strength at the feet of those much more powerful than us, so if we ever neeed a training arc, home's just right around the corner. Plus, we'll get to have interesting interactions with the Fleeting members of our party, with us teaching them stuff about our life and vice versa.

And…uh…I just like the name. Alliteration's cool and all, right?

Unnaturally Average for looks just seems to fit the role of Mesmerist. Being so normal that you can be overlooked or misremembered and definitely potentially misdirect through use of your skills seems pretty important, and standing out too much looks like a detriment to the class.

I think Fritz's nice.
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All of your arguments are broken down by one remark.

He has a stupid name.

P.s. I don't even understand how this applies. We know that elves have names consisting of one word. And nothing was said about surnames, patronymics, and nicknames. I thought I'd leave that up to the author's imagination.
The only normal name is objectively only for Black.Horus
 
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CoatRackRanger said:
This is a good idea but it unfairly disadvantages people who voted in plans by not giving them the opportunity to cast votes as widely as they might approve of. It ends up punishing the people who followed instructions.

Yet, I don't have any better ideas? I need some time to think.
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Those who vote in the form of a plan can simply add free votes if they wish. To be honest, I'm not sure that the format of the plan was appropriate initially - there are no obvious synergies between the options, and the plan in this situation simply serves as a limit on the votes. And it doesn't look like we're going to come to a consensus.
 
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