- Location
- Rex, NC, USA
Yeah, there's no way something like Rumsfeldia could happen in real-
Oh wait, nevermind.
What's the most Cringeworthy Alternate History you've ever read?
- Thread starter Silent Runner
- Start date
- Post-1900
Oh wait, nevermind.
- Location
- Illinois
Is there some type of context that I'm missing on how a United China would be one of the worst scenarios? Especially compared to a Nazi US??So a bit ago I mentioned a Mod that was about a Axis victory in WW2 achieved through them allying with the Soviet Union. Well it gets worse.
Nothing like a compass that really makes it clear what the Author's views are.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't know.
- Location
- East Coast
Oh, boy, that superficial hot take again! Yes, clearly, the election of Donald Trump, despite not resembling the election of Rumsfeld in Rumsfeldia in the manner that it happens, the political era that it happens in, the philosophy of the two candidates, and what then happens when both candidates take power, proves that Rumsfeldia isn't a bad and improbable TL.
EBR
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Khazaria
I was like "This is weird, Soviet- American Union?" Then I noticed the "Better" and "Worse" axes and "Neobolshevik Axis" as the most "Radical Better" outcome.🤔
Anchises
Le Charismeur
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nazi world domination is somehow the most temperate option and on the same level of bad as united China....
Last time I checked the USA weren't invading Cuba and leaving wounded soldiers to die...
- Location
- East Coast
With cheapest bidder-built missiles that not only don't function the way missiles should, they break the laws of physics to fuck over the invading troops.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That's mostly because Trump doesn't have the gut-level courage to do the nasty things he probably wants to do. He'd happily do both (abandon wounded American soldiers for perceived personal gain, and use shitty equipment for perceived personal gain) if he thought he could get away with it and it would glorify him or let him feel like a "winner" somehow.
The core argument is that Trump managing to hold power for any length of time argues strongly that the limit on "how bad can you be as a man, and still become president" is much, MUCH worse than most of us would have liked to think before 2017. Trump retroactively takes every "modern fascist America" timeline and makes them all more plausible.
The core argument is that Trump managing to hold power for any length of time argues strongly that the limit on "how bad can you be as a man, and still become president" is much, MUCH worse than most of us would have liked to think before 2017. Trump retroactively takes every "modern fascist America" timeline and makes them all more plausible.
Anchises
Le Charismeur
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That argument also doesn't ring true. I would argue that Dubya would be a much better example here and even he doesn't make fascist America timelines more plausible.
Bad man becoming President is evidently not enough to make fascist America happen. Especially not when they happen decades ahead of schedule.
- Pronouns
- It/Its
It seems like Neobolshivik Axis (Russia+Germany) and Nazi's leading the USA are considered the "good" endings, so either the mod maker is blatantly fascist (probably) or the other endings are so awful they make Nazis seem tame. (and I know from teasers that MLK can become president, so something is up there). They also clearly prefer Japan the China, as China uniting is on the worst end of the spectrum, and Japan winning the cold war is on the best end of the spectrum
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I should point out the teaser for MLK being President has George Lincoln Rockwell as the other option and the picture name is "Two Extremes". Which...yeah.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
"Bad Man Becomes President" isn't sufficent to get 'failariously incompetently administered fascist America.'
It is, however, necessary.
Trump makes one of the necessary components of American fascist timelines more plausible, without somehow guaranteeing them or supplying all the other relevant components.
LordInsane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
I can imagine that someone making a good-bad/radical-temperate chart might go in with an assumption that the worst temperate is not as bad as the worst radical, while on the flip side good radical might go farther than good temperate (since the definition of temperate can be seen as meaning less change and a more sedate situation, for good and ill)... but while that makes sense for Cuban Missile Crisis being the worst on a more temperate axis than Third World War, it does not remotely explain why United China is more radical than global Nazi hegemony.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
How China turned out in AANW pretty much explains that particular world view.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yellow Peril reasoning, I'm guessing? The obvious horribleness of Nazi world tyranny gets rationalized as "ehhh, they'd mellow out," but even the prospect of a powerful and unified China is 'scary?'
Anchises
Le Charismeur
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't understand the sentiment here. George W. Bush introduced mass surveillance, legitimized torture and ordered US institutions to commit mass extra judicial killings and start blatantly imperialist wars.
How does Trump somehow change the believability of Fascist America TLs? I am not trying to be offensive but that seems like a uniquely American perspective tbh. America has been a brutal imperialist power for a very long time and brutal world hegemon for a long time.
I don't see how Trump substantially deviates from the pattern. Nixon and Kissinger did horrible, corrupt and criminal shit. Reagan did horrible, corrupt and criminal shit and Dubya even did it pretty recently. Even the better US administrations did a LOT of shady and criminal shit.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
1) Because he much more overtly appealed to and coordinated the support of domestic fascists.
2) Because he has much more overtly worked to subvert institutional checks on his power, and demonstrated that he can do so with the full support of his political party.
I'm not saying Bush didn't do things to increase the plausibility of Fascist America timelines. I'm saying that in addition to the things Bush and his predecessors had already done, Trump did more things. He's not breaking from the pattern, he's continuing the pattern, with new variations on the theme.
- Pronouns
- It/Its
I don't think Trump had done more things, he's done less than people like Bush and Cheney, he's just done them out in the open, instead of behind closed doors
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I don't mean "more" as in "done more numerous or more ultimately significant things." I mean "more" as in "took the existing pile of bad things, and added an additional pile of bad things to make an even bigger pile."
When Nixon argued that as president he was immune from congressional investigations, for instance, the Supreme Court basically laughed him out of their courtroom. When Trump does it we're actually having to think about whether the Court will disagree- though that's admittedly NOT all on Trump.
When Nixon argued that as president he was immune from congressional investigations, for instance, the Supreme Court basically laughed him out of their courtroom. When Trump does it we're actually having to think about whether the Court will disagree- though that's admittedly NOT all on Trump.
- Location
- Australia
- Pronouns
- He/They
To try and get back on track, I introduce you to the world's greatest timeline: The Al Gore Presidency.
The most succinct description of it comes from the second comment in the thread:
Most of the timeline's discourse revolved around how surprisingly long, or short, his trips to the bathroom were.
The most succinct description of it comes from the second comment in the thread:
Tim Thomason said:
Most of the timeline's discourse revolved around how surprisingly long, or short, his trips to the bathroom were.
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- Location
- East Coast
I've seen always that as a rather brilliant parody TL, which makes it, strangely enough not cringey at all.
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Indicus
<insert title here>
- Location
- TORONTVM, ONTARIVM INFERIOR, IMPERIVM ROMANVM
Don't insult that timeline. It's a sound depiction of a person with constipation problems.
Information: Sho shoo News and Politics is that way.
- Pronouns
- It/Its
I know that this is for bad alt history, but does anyone have any recommendations for good ones?