What Can SV Teach an Sorcerer in the Mesolithic?

0. Status, Basics, Summaries, & Tech List
0
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                         NOTICES
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Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
  (Bianca does NOT hear what you write right now)
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Next story update : soon, I hope
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 2,724 words
We're on step 5: reading & composition of in-line replies
Total words in 'what Bianca's been told' notes : 3,119
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Anything I post that's not in vote options, quote boxes,
code blocks or in spoilers may be understood to be said
by Bianca.
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Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes

If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
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You can quote other sources, but I don't want this to 
turn into Plagiarism Quest.

You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources. When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.

Please do not use Large Language Model assistants like
ChatGPT or similar to compose your effortposts. I mean
for this game to be about communication, not prompt
engineering.

Thank you.



Check the summaries in this status post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.

If you're not already involved in the game and you want to get right into it without digging through the back catalog, consider doing this:
  1. Read the summaries in this Status Post.
  2. Pull up the latest Threadmark.
  3. Skip to the line that says "B R E A K."
  4. Skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.

If there's no Closing The Vote post in the Informationals corresponding to the latest Threadmarks, then the game is in a Cacophonous Interlude and Bianca will hear what you post, unless you post inside spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a Cacophonous Interlude.

If the game is not in a Cacophonous Interlude, you can still post. It's just that Bianca can't hear you. You might still want to post so you can coordinate with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans. You can compose a message to Bianca all whether or not the game is in a Cacophonous Interlude. And once the game returns to a Cacophonous Interlude, you can vote and/or send a message to Bianca by creating a post in the thread.

If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them. I should find the 'how to vote' general post and link it here, I guess.

If you want to send a message to Bianca, keep in mind that she is a creature of another time. She may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to Bianca, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of her understanding of the world. You might even need to consider her biases and values.

I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of Bianca and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell her.

Bianca has different values than we do. She has different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Her goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But she wants power and will listen most attentively to players that tell her how to get more of or closer to what she wants.

Keep in mind that you players are not trusted advisors. You're the Astute Cacophony: voices that Bianca mostly can't tell apart from each other.

If the total amount of player-generated content gets to be more than I can handle either because there are so many players or because player posts get so long, I will set a cap. At this time, I intend that the cap will be some total number of characters, with each player who speaks to Bianca having access to an equal share. Unused share gets divided up among the rest of the players until it runs out. If each player's share seems too small, I will also set a limit on the number of players Bianca will hear in a Cacophonous Interlude. And priority will be assigned based on post order.

I guess ideally the story doesn't attract so many people who want to guide the uplift that I have to set these limits.

I do not at this time plan to set a limit on voting players. I don't see how that could get out of hand on a niche quest like this.
  1. I post and Threadmark a story update that has 3 parts:
    • Bianca's responses to player posts made during the last Cacophonous Interlude, followed by 'B R E A K'
    • An update by Bianca following a hiatus of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what she believes is worth mentioning
    • Requests by Bianca for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
  2. Following each story update, players' posts are audible to Bianca until voting is closed.
    This is the Cacophonous Interlude.
    • Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
    • No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
    • Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with me and with each other without doing so in ways Bianca can hear.
  3. When votes are tallied, I collect player posts in an Informational so that it may be known what Bianca heard.
    • Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting for. And only effectively identical write-ins accumulate votes.
    • You can vote your own write-in any time you want anyway, of course.
  4. I collect player posts and post them in the vote results for reference. This is the point where what is said in the Cacophonous Interlude is locked in.
  5. I read player posts, take notes, determine what Bianca already thinks she knows, and compose Bianca's in-line replies to those posts that invite replies.
  6. I research player advice, claims, and suggestions, check my notes for precedent, determine what Bianca's right or wrong about, how likely she is to engage with the topic, how likely Blanca's followers are to follow through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be, later in the narrative.
  7. When the narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, I devise tests for Bianca or other characters and make those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
    • Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew that's mostly the Burning Wheel system, notably including War and Factions from the Burning Wheel Anthology -- which I really, really would have benefitted from the last time around -- on d10s with different 'shade' ranges (see below), no Artha, no Beliefs or Instincts, no Stock-exclusive skills, probably no Emotional Attributes, and clocks from Blades in the Dark because setting automation is fantastic. (The Burning Wheel is a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
      • I will post the dice, threshold of success, and results of each test before rolling it.
      • Tests may:
        • Be made by rolling one of an entity's attributes against a static target, or may
        • Be made by two entities each rolling one of their attributes where the one with the greater result wins to some degree, and may
        • Have absolute results, or may
        • Have tiered results, and may
        • Result in pyrrhic victories or welcome defeats.
      • The rules being used and followed will be described in each Informational in which tests are made.
      • Normal mortals count 7s and better toward success.
      • Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better toward success, so long as what they're doing aligns with their heroism or their magical theme.
      • Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better toward success, so long as what they're doing aligns with their divine heritage.
      • Gods and count 4s and better toward success, as do their avatars, so long as what the avatar is doing aligns with the god's domains.
      • Gods count 3s and better toward success when what they're going aligns with their domains.
      • 1s and 2s never count toward success.
      • Sorcery, other magic skills, and some magical tools lower the threshold of success by a non-cumulative 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are or are essential to the skill being tested, not when they help with other skills. Players may note that a god's threshold of success when they are acting within their domain does not improve when they use magic or magical tools.
      • Helping dice provided by magic, magical items, tame (not domesticated) warbeasts larger than hounds, or any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow roll an additional die after each 9 or 10 and keep counting successes. Further 9s & 10s lead to further rolls. Unless the magic, magical item, or incendiary device is the product of an especially refined industry or practice (no exceptions for non-domesticated big warbeasts -- if the animal is dangerous to the enemy it is dangerous to everyone), these same helping dice cancel successes on 1s & 2s and roll another die for each 1 or 2. Additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2s, 9s, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, when a 9 or 10 on a helping die from war elephants provides an additional die and that die rolls a 1 or 2, that doesn't cancel successes or lead to further additional dice.
    • When players expect a test -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they might be able to add helping dice to the test by providing Bianca with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. Often, decent advice adds dice. Sometimes good advice may outright guarantee success, preventing the test entirely.
    • I'm going to have to choose some kind of accumulation-of-progress-toward-a-goal mechanic that fits the faction clocks from Burning Wheel but I'm not sure about how that's going to work right now. Maybe Conflicts from Mouseguard or Torchbearer?
    • Similarly, since this is an uplift quest and players will often provide incomplete but potentially sufficient information, some kind of test will be needed to see if Bianca and/or her minions are able to fill in the gaps and implement the desired technology. This is probably just going to be some skill test with a high obstacle and not-a-complete-failure thresholds that make the next test easier and whoops-all-on-fire-now thresholds that make the next test harder.
  8. I compose Bianca's post-hiatus update, new questions for vote, and new vote options.
  9. GOTO 1
Bianca will be the only character the players will directly interact with in this game.

Bianca is a human-shaped interface in the material world for a powerful soul entity. She's smaller than most of the human and human-like people she's met. And her phenotypic expression is unique from all surviving human-like populations. She looks really old and she'll tell you that she wears it well.

Bianca has magical abilities related to her original function as a vault guardian for her missing maker. She has other magical abilities related to the hundreds of years she spent traveling the world after she gave up waiting on her maker. As a being of divine heritage, Bianca counts 6s and better as successes on all tests. The nature of her divine heritage means she counts 5s and better as successes if what she's doing is related to getting into god crypts or similar, keeping others from getting into the same, or awakening great soul-things that have been cut off from the material world since the last time magic wasn't forbidden by reality. Other applications exist and haven't appeared in the game.

Bianca needs to return to the vault that her maker entrusted to her every few years for magical maintenance on her material form. She's pretty sure that if her material form is destroyed without injuring her soul and the stuff in that vault is intact she can rebuild her material 'body.'

Bianca has claimed to perform Soul Magic, Wayfinding Magic, and Healing Magic. She can also enchant objects under unspecified circumstances.

Despite sacrificing autonomy to connect with the Astute Cacophony, Bianca values her independence.

1. Era Choice
Bianca woke up from a long time when magic didn't work. Afterward, she spent about 900 years in the place where she woke, which the god who made her told her to guard before everyone who couldn't survive without magic went into some kind of hibernation. Then Bianca traveled the world for around another 900 years. She found people who didn't have magic. She didn't find any gods.

Bianca understands that the players can't tell her about the setting's magical systems. She wants power and wants the players to tell her how to get power in the material world.

There's stuff in Bianca's Vault that does things she understands, and more that she doesn't.

Bianca asks the players when the game should start.
2. Three Quests at the Dawn of the World
The players choose the Stone Age, but just barely.

Bianca starts with two magic items: the Red Knife, a very nice Acheulean hand axe enchanted to keep its edge and not break; and the Coat of Two Suns, a shimmery cloak made from the hide of an unspecified magical creature ("swift running beasts that shimmer like water") enchanted to smell good and be soft.

The players give Bianca a lot of advice. More than one suggest iron, which Bianca says she'll try to get.

Bianca spends around 400 years getting pottery working, finding iron ore, figuring out iron smelting and fining, making soap, figuring out clay pot distillation of alcohol, obtaining potassium nitrite, and figuring out steel bluing.

There's a community of fishers in a bay near where she's digging up ore. She pulls them into her shenanigans. The place they live is called Black Hook Bay.

Bianca enchants the best blued steel 'knife' she made like her Red Knife. It's called the Black Knife now.

The combination of the pescatarian lure of (mostly) relatively easy meat and the steel tools Bianca has given them and has taught them to make keeps the Black Hook Bay people around longer than the land will endure with grace. They've grown in number and overstayed their time such that they've cleared out medicinal and essential nutrition plants from the area. Also, they lost knowledge of a lot of them.

(Un?)fortunately, their neighbors are within reach for young people with iron weapons and bright ideas. So raids are solving some problems and creating others.

Bianca has asked the players which of three tasks she should undertake: very cursed dungeon crawl, suborn a murderous cult trying to summon the kind of god murderous cults summon, or befriend some monsters who aren't finding a place for themselves in a world after they went through some big changes.
3. Launching the River Warrior's Legend
Players chose to split Bianca's attention between a main focus on befriending the winged lions with a little side-trip to fuck up something powerful's blood-soaked wake-up call. Bianca does not win the trust of the lions and they leave. Bianca reached out again around 220 years after her last contact.

Armed with an indicator species and the function of the liver, Bianca decides that The Problem with Black Hook Bay is something in the water downstream from her smelting sites. She tells the people to move and not use the water in certain places and matters improve.

Bianca invents an alphabet, writes down iron-making instructions, and teaches BHB folk to read. They're a bit excited about being able to write their own names on stuff, but don't use literacy enough to keep it long term

Bianca loses interest in glassmaking after a series of frustrating explosions but the BHB folk are in love with the stuff and are going to try to figure it out for themselves.

Those rare magic livers the BHB folk end up with make them resistant to poisons and are there because Bianca was healing that population for generations.

People the BHB have been stealing from get fed up and follow a Special Kid on a Unicorn to attack the BHB. They get trounced and the BHB gets the Horn of Sheshlan, which has healing powers. They also get a head start on regaining their lost area lore, but kind of fuck that up instead of making progress when they get the chance.

Bianca goes looking for a place to invent farming and picks some nice floodplains with just one problem: a magical river dolphin that fucks up whatever Bianca doesn't ward the fuck out of every time the river floods. She's picked out a grain to focus on and can grow more than she can harvest alone. But she can't get enough to keep people fed year round. She does bring seed back to BHB at unspecified intervals to get more iron for tools.

Bianca kind of raised a Heroic River Warrior and needs to give the woman something to focus on.

Bianca asks the players about handling that very cursed dungeon crawl from last time, the possible murder god's wake-up call that's kind of trying to stop being on hold, that fucking dolphin, and a cache of bog iron up-country that she's been thinking about.

This list is of things that Bianca has described to exist in the setting independently (or -- later in play -- at least seemingly independently) of actions she has taken based on player advice.
  • Language
  • 'Wolves' (dogs)
  • 'Hide' clothing
  • 'Webs of vegetation' clothing
  • Sharp sticks
  • 'Broken rocks' (knapped stone tools and weapons)
  • 'How to live in the places they go' (local plant, animal, mineral, weather, and geographic lore)
  • 'Brimstone' (elemental sulfur at volcanic sites)
  • Murder
  • 'Dragon Glyphs' (actual ideograms (as opposed to logograms) that are used by or the product of magic)
  • 'Counting by dozens, grosses, great gosses, and so on' (base-12 eunmeration)
    • 'Dragon counting' (base-8)
  • 'Bulbs that grow leaves like a hawk's tail' which nearly all people plant wherever they go
  • Spreading the seeds of every plant they use as they travel
  • 'Don't handle shit, don't eat rotten things, & keep the midden away from living spaces ' (very basic hygiene)
  • Rope
  • Gold, silver, iron, and copper (all very rare)
  • Needles
  • Thread
  • 'Boats' (logs that dream of being as cool as caballito de totora but have a long way to go before they get there)
  • 'Webs' (nets, this time)
  • Resource raiding
  • Poisoning
  • 'Sunstead' (understanding of the seasons sufficient to identify a solstice)
  • Bows and arrows
  • Soft metal seen once that might have been lead
  • "Where beasts' seeds fell outside the womb" (ectopic pregnancies in animals)
  • Bees and honey
  • Toys that spin in the wind
  • 'Stones to weigh down webs' (weighted nets)
  • Buckskin tanning
  • Unicorns, horses, and zebras
    • Unicorns are larger than horses, not as robustly build, and have a magic horn
    • Zebras have family dynamics
    • Stallions do not lead horse herds, they herd from the back
  • Hills and walls of ice in high places and far north and south (Glaciers and polar caps)
  • "The world is round like a perfect river stone"
  • "There is something in the work that brains do with substance that touches the Soul Lands"
  • Bone setters (she says people just figure that shit out all the time)
  • Basket fishing and fish weirs
  • Baskets in general
  • Non-domesticated grains, beans, and nuts
  • River dolphins
This list is of things that have been described to Bianca. To let me know about something I missed, PM me a link and a searchable keyword from the passage.
Bianca reports failure
Bianca reports success - Skill exponent opened (if any)
  • Writing
    • Paper
    • Soot ink
    • Printing press
    • Cypher Wheel
  • Farming
    • Irrigation
    • Evolution
    • Selective breeding
    • Food preservation
  • Disease
    • Sickmakers (pathogens)
      • Wound care - Field Dressing
    • Undersuckling (nutritional deficiency)
    • Slow poisons
    • 'Free problems' 'wardful flesh problems' (immune problems)
    • Cankers (cancer)
    • 'Origin problems' (genetic problems)
  • Lye-making - no Skill opened
  • Soap-making - no Skill opened
  • 'The stain' (alcohol) making - Distiller
  • Clay pots and other shapes - Potter
    • Waterproofing clay with ash - no Skill opened
  • Bricks & mortar - Mason
  • 'Rock-cooking tower' (smelter) - Tree Cutter & Miner (kind of incidentally)
  • 'Air-cooking tower' (blast furnace) - no Skill opened
  • 'Bubbling cooking tower' (finery) - no Skill opened
  • Metal
    • Copper
      • Malachite
      • Chalcocite
    • Tin
      • Cassiterite
      • Bronze
    • Zinc
      • Smithsonite and hemimorphite
      • Brass
    • Iron - Blacksmith
      • Magnetite
      • Hematite
      • 'Firm iron' (steel) - no Skill opened
  • 'Blue-making' (steel bluing corrosion protection) - no Skill opened
  • 'Fat on iron' (steel oiling corrosion protection) - no Skill opened
  • 'Blow-bags (bellows) - no Skill opened
  • 'Charred coals' (charcoal) - no Skill opened
  • 'Biters' (tongs) - no Skill opened
  • 'Burning' (annealing)
  • 'Pot-ash-niter crystals' (potassium nitrate) - Munitions
  • 'Outclappers' (explosives)
  • The value of falsifiable claims (Scientific method)
  • 'Improved midden' (covered latrine) - no Skill opened
  • Long bows - Bowyer
  • Fletched arrows - Fletcher
  • 'Trunk and take' (block and tackle and related compound bow)
  • 'returning doves (homing pigeons)
  • Nose and mouth masks when in the presence of sick people
  • Storm signs
    • Birds fly low
    • Smoke stays low
    • People ache more
    • Pests bites more
    • Smells are stronger
    • Clouds that are tall, fast, or change direction
    • Certain people's headaches
  • Volcanos should show up in lines (plate tectonics)
  • Lighting lure - no Skill opened
  • Bog iron - no Skill opened
  • Boats
    • Dugout boats - Boatwright
    • Second boat fastened to first by stout branches (outrigger) - Carpentry
    • Pitch - Pitch Collector
    • Oars - Wood Carving
    • Sail
    • Seabirds fly away from land in the morning and toward it at night
    • Shallow water reflects more light to the underside of clouds
  • Buildings
    • Cob
    • Start walls below the ground (foundations)
    • Fire in home with smoke pipe (fireplace and chimney)
    • Arches - Architect
    • Concrete
  • 'Breaking rock with outclapping stuff' (blast mining with explosives)
  • Tools
    • 'Shover' (shovel)
    • 'Point' (pick)
    • 'Striker' (hoe)
    • 'Cutter' (chisel)
    • Breaking up rocks with fire
    • Hafting by shrinkage and spike and even glue
  • Agriculture
    • Plow
    • 'Dirt making' (compost) - Farming
      • Basket with layers of green & brown, little water, ready 6 months later
    • Use the seeds of the plants that work best
    • Remove undesired plants
    • Mushroom farming - Farmer
  • Grow branches as forms for clay pipes
  • Hills and ravines against flood rivers (levees and canals)
  • 'Fighters that only fight' (Standing army)
    • People should have a plan and a leader they'll listen to if they want to win combat
    • And they should play at fighting to get better at fighting
    • Murder axes should the lighter so they're faster
  • Glassmaking
  • Glue - Mending
  • Liquor social
  • Hypothermia recovery
  • Math
    • Vertical addition
    • Vertical subtraction
    • Partial product multiplication
    • Long division
  • Body weight poison determinism
  • Saltpans - no Skill opened
  • Phonetic alphabet - Read and Write
 
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[X] Mathematics and the basics of geometry and its potential applications #776 by @Lincolnator
[X] Hydraulic ram pump for irrigation, simple barometer, and an explanation of buoyancy #781 by @Lincolnator
[X] Advanced Archery techniques, better pulleys, and basic wire drawing #791 by @Lincolnator
[X] Weapons and armor by @Legion0047
[X]Miscellaneous things, maps, tools, bridges, glass and white paint by @liberty90
[X] Wheels and carts and shields by @Pyrelight
 
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[X]Miscellaneous things, maps, tools, bridges, glass and white paint by @liberty90
[X] Hydraulic ram pump for irrigation, simple barometer, and an explanation of buoyancy #781 by @Lincolnator
[X] Wheels and carts and shields by @Pyrelight
[X] Advanced Archery techniques, better pulleys, and basic wire drawing #791 by @Lincolnator

[X] Usefulness of Horses by Earth-Destroyer

Is nobody else voting? or is it just everybody's busy or something. It's been hours.

I was literally sleeping, some people live in Europe ^.^

[X] Mathematics and the basics of geometry and its potential applications #776 by @Lincolnator
[X] Hydraulic ram pump for irrigation, simple barometer, and an explanation of buoyancy #781 by @Lincolnator
[X] Advanced Archery techniques, better pulleys, and basic wire drawing #791 by @Lincolnator
[X] Weapons and armor by @Legion0047
[X]Miscellaneous things, maps, tools, bridges, glass and white paint by @liberty614
[X] Wheels and carts and shields by @Pyrelight

There is a mistake in your voting format: my nickname should be- liberty90
 
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BHB Project: Glass 4
4/6 milestones complete

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BHB Project: Lore Restoration -2
1/8 milestones complete

By the way, I'm impressed that one fishing village was able to semi-consistently pursue even the glass "project" for 200 years. I imagine that this is not like constant research effort, but more chaotic, and sometimes a few shards of glass encourage the next generation.
 
Didn't quite finish it, so there's holes around gears and levers (I suspect it's obvious I have very little idea how they work) and nothing about the calculations - seems we've got a lot of pure math but limited uses for it so far.

But there's enough detail to get some gnarly industrial accidents going 10,000 years early.

Also mentioning a couple of concepts that might or may not yet be in use but with enough detail to implement if not.



Had some comments I wanted to make:
Were they making brick houses without mortar, drystone style? No wonder they fell in. I do wonder if bark or wood shingles wouldn't be better than tiles, though.

It'd be funny if she's been going around clearing land by ripping plants up by hand instead of good old slash-and-burn agriculture.

The dolphin is exactly what I would expect a sapient dolphin with magic to be like. There's a certain combination of intellect and malice that you don't usually find in the wild. Truly dolphins are the humans of the deep.

Her comment about settled society being what makes people vulnerable to Organised Violence is fairly accurate, at least for now. As settled peoples grow they'll muscle nomads out of all the good land and retreating farther will mean living in deserts and steppes and mountains and the like, at which point chasing them in becomes a matter of logistics. Armies swim in settled countryside like very violent fish but pushing outwards needs things like, say, a big river and boats to carry all that settled agriculture grain into the wastelands. Or splitting up into small groups who can live off the land, at which point the nomads beat them with experience.

Though even if they can't be conquered outright, they'll have a hard time pushing back, too. "You can't tax me, I quit!" works but it isn't the best way to win a border dispute.

It's funny that people seem to be seriously proposing gold mining when I only mentioned it as a joke. Doesn't gold also need horrifically toxic chemicals to refine? IIRC pre-modern mining was always terrible work but gold mines in particular were openly murderous, and it's not even a useful material.

But as usual for me I put things on the backburner for a bit and whoopsie deadline.
I thought it was American calendar 6th.



Was intending to split the shield stuff into a separate post opening with this:

I think for armour it's better to start by explaining the principles behind it.

(Incidentally - why the layers of shirts? That's very expensive to make. Isn't it easier and almost as good to quilt a garment by having just two layers, stuff the middle with rags or hair, then sew it up with crossing lines of stitches so the padding doesn't bunch up or move out of place? Such a method can also make warm blankets, which is probably more useful most of the time. You only need armour in a fight. A good blanket is useful every day.)

The design of armour is much like protecting from any other danger: finding the ways danger could occur, and placing obstacles to block it until the remaining danger is acceptable or adding more obstacles is counterproductive.

Danger is made up of two things: the likelihood a bad thing will happen, or its probability, and how bad it would be, or its severity.

Relevant obstacles may either avert it entirely or mitigate it by reducing probability or severity.

Being struck by lightning would be very bad. Not standing on hilltops during thunderstorms reduces the probability; having a tall lightning rod to draw and divert it increases probability but greatly reduces severity; not offending gods with power over lightning does both.

The easiest and most effective way to not be hurt in fighting is to not be there in the first place.

Failing that, protections are like the layers of a hawktail plant: don't be seen, don't be reached, don't be hit, don't be hurt, and survive being hurt.

Wearing armour is a protection of the second-to-last kind. It's much more difficult to land an effective strike on an armoured warrior, and a warrior with less fear of being struck can fight much more boldly.

A piece of armour balances four factors: how well it resists blows, how much of the body it protects (coverage), how encumbering it is to wear, and how difficult it is to make.

Flexible armour such as cloth, hide, unboiled leather, and metal chain or scales provides good coverage, especially over body parts that are difficult to armour like the joints and neck, but such materials are often not sturdy and that flexibility also means a strike only needs to pierce the material directly beneath the blade and blunt weapons can still deliver much of their force.

Rigid materials are harder to shape, but can deflect blows and spread impacts out across the armour piece and the protected body part so that they are easier for both material and wearer to resist.

The shaping and material of a piece of rigid armour affects its protection: sharp angles and rounded curves deflect blows that do not strike squarely, greatly reducing their impact.
Shaping a piece to fit the body will tend to produce these curves naturally.
The piece moving with or bending under the blow robs energy from the strike.
Finally, the thickness, hardness and toughness of the material make it harder to pierce through.

Among most protective kinds of armour is a carapace of steel plates strapped closely to the body and made with intricate sliding segments over the wearer's joints, providing near-total coverage, almost complete impenetrability to most weapons, surprising agility as the plates are quite thin and close to the skin, and incredible difficulty of manufacture, needing enormous amounts of work from highly-skilled armoursmiths and to be made to fit the body of a specific wearer.

One risk of deflection is that the strike must go somewhere: a rounded breastplate will deflect a thrust, but that does no good if the blade is sent up into the throat. A raised edge around the neck hole or an angled ridge on the upper chest can guide it in safe directions.
Which parts of the body to protect depend on the dangers. Being wounded on the limbs is likely, but often survivable; wounds on the head or body are likely to be fatal.

The first piece of armour a warrior will wear is a shield, which resists blows decently, covers most of the body and can be moved as needed, is not very encumbering unless very large and heavy, and is very easy to make.
While a shield is often fairly flimsy if struck directly, they are usually held at an angle meaning strikes either skid away or must pierce more material, and the movement of the shield and the user's arm with the blow absorbs some of the impact.

The second piece will be a helmet on the head. These are not too hard to make; the head is solid, so the helmet can be one rigid piece with no need for flexibility unless covering the neck as well.
A raised crest on the top will help deflect blows, and puts more material in the path of one that is not deflected.
Unless covering the ears, eyes, mouth, ot under the nose, or very large and heavy, helmets aren't particularly encumbering.

Face protection comes on many forms: curved cheek-guards, nasal bars to block blows that would hit the nose, visors across the upper face with eye-holes or vision slits, fearsomely-carved war masks, and more.
Fully covering helmets will often have a hinged visor so that the face can be uncovered without removing the helmet.

These aren't just used for fighting: head protection is useful when there is a risk of falling objects, such as mining or building.

Next will usually be something to guard the chest.
After that, perhaps protection for the lower legs and feet, or for parts of the shield-arm not covered by the shield itself.
And so forth.

If guns become widespread, armouring against their bullets becomes difficult. Small or poorly-made guns can be stopped by reinforced steel armour, but more powerful bullets need thicker and better metal to stop, with correspondingly less coverage to keep the weight bearable, until eventually the only practical armour is a set of thick plates covering the vital organs of the chest and a thin helmet only meant to protect against fragments scattered by explosives.

Putting it here for reference and because otherwise I'll probably misplace the draft before next time.

Need to have a look at the posts to check which to vote for. Particularly which are actually over the limit. I was mostly checking that I wasn't saying things someone else had already covered thoroughly.
 
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Need to have a look at the posts to check which to vote for. Particularly which are actually over the limit. I was mostly checking that I wasn't saying things someone else had already covered thoroughly.

Not much more time for it, so perhaps try to be fast. ^.^

My effortpost offers many simple to introduce concepts and tools.
 
(Incidentally - why the layers of shirts? That's very expensive to make. Isn't it easier and almost as good to quilt a garment by having just two layers, stuff the middle with rags or hair, then sew it up with crossing lines of stitches so the padding doesn't bunch up or move out of place? Such a method can also make warm blankets, which is probably more useful most of the time. You only need armour in a fight. A good blanket is useful every day.)
Because i actually remember it from the last iteration of this quest. I can edit in the cheap variant if you think it would make sense?
 
It's funny that people seem to be seriously proposing gold mining when I only mentioned it as a joke. Doesn't gold also need horrifically toxic chemicals to refine? IIRC pre-modern mining was always terrible work but gold mines in particular were openly murderous, and it's not even a useful material.
L: Modern gold refining involves literal metric tons of cyanide at some step of the process, though I don't recall the exact details beyond that.

L EDIT: Having looked it up, it's even worse than it sounds! Prior to the cyanide process, the most common method involved boiling mercury after using it to leach gold out of the rocks. The cyanide process is legitimately safer and less polluting.
 
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Need to have a look at the posts to check which to vote for. Particularly which are actually over the limit. I was mostly checking that I wasn't saying things someone else had already covered thoroughly.
Yep. Anyone who has an effortpost they want to receive votes for should definitely give the first vote to themselves. Then everyone else can use the tally system to check every nominated post.
 
Need to have a look at the posts to check which to vote for. Particularly which are actually over the limit. I was mostly checking that I wasn't saying things someone else had already covered thoroughly.
I went through the posts, and only picked the ones that went of 2k words, and most pf them are in my voting block, so you can use it as a reference.
 
You voted for all of them? Isn't that like voting for none of them?
No, I voted for most of the ones that actually have useful information, which is many of them, not all of them. Basically anything that is a long post with actually useful descriptions and info that is over the 2k word limit for the player got in.

I know that is like voting for none of them, but I considered having a useful compendium to the other players good use of my vote. It's not that many anyways.
 
Because i actually remember it from the last iteration of this quest. I can edit in the cheap variant if you think it would make sense?
don't think edits are allowed/counted once it closes.

I know the linothorax worked well, I'm just not sure it's the most cost-effective. Idk much on textile armour though.
Might be contingent on improved spinning/weaving techniques.
Not much more time for it, so perhaps try to be fast. ^.^

My effortpost offers many simple to introduce concepts and tools.
Monjolo gang at it again
You voted for all of them? Isn't that like voting for none of them?
Tbf "here's a list of the applicable posts" is worth having in its own right.

[X] Mathematics and the basics of geometry and its potential applications #776 by @Lincolnator
[X] Hydraulic ram pump for irrigation, simple barometer, and an explanation of buoyancy #781 by @Lincolnator
[X] Advanced Archery techniques, better pulleys, and basic wire drawing #791 by @Lincolnator
[X] Weapons and armor by @Legion0047
[X]Miscellaneous things, maps, tools, bridges, glass and white paint by @liberty90
[X] Wheels and carts and shields by @Pyrelight

Obvs I think mine is handy. Apparently I was wrong and shields actually were used for hunting lions and the like that hunt back. Maybe wherever I heard that was speaking from a European context.

And the Monjolo again. And if we're going to have wheels, bridges and roads are handy. Poppies lmao - joining the war on drugs on the side of the drugs.

I don't think she got a barometer design last time, or at least I hope she didn't hear the one saying to dig up some mercury.

Math is fiddly and it gets everywhere. It'll be useful eventually but tbh my eyes glaze over.

Guns - cart before the horse I think. Explosives I'm pretty sure she already has the knowhow and picked up the knack last time, she just needs to try it again.

Armour is I think missing stuff but it'd be kind of shit to poke at someone for not mentioning something in their post and then not vote for that post to be seen.

Archery idk charcoal and more pulleys and things. The parkour is funny, I think a lifelong hunter-gatherer is likely to know more of the practicalities of moving over rough ground than modern hobbyists.

I think the concept that is the most cart-before-the-undomesticated-prehistoric-horselike-creature is the standing army that kept coming up. Main reason to have one of those is so the king can run off and fight a battle in the middle of planting or the harvest. Or be ready to put the boot in on rebels on a moment's notice. Otherwise there are more useful specialist occupations that are less likely to promote themselves into an aristocrat class.
 
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I think the concept that is the most cart-before-the-undomesticated-prehistoric-horselike-creature is the standing army that kept coming up. Main reason to have one of those is so the king can run off and fight a battle in the middle of planting or the harvest. Or be ready to put the boot in on rebels on a moment's notice. Otherwise there are more useful specialist occupations that are less likely to promote themselves into an aristocrat class.
Yeah, my sole reason for talking about legitimacy is because people keep trying to rush this shit when we haven't even yet fully figured out how to make a seditary society work.
 
At least nobody is explaining nuclear weapons or quantum mechanics.

Well. Somebody, I believe, mentioned greenhouses made out of glass. That's (with all due respect) about as useful as nuclear power, at this stage.
 
At least nobody is explaining nuclear weapons or quantum mechanics.

Well. Somebody, I believe, mentioned greenhouses made out of glass. That's (with all due respect) about as useful as nuclear power, at this stage.
hey, at least she asked first. I also did say that it is very expensive and I did append an actually useful piece of advice.
 
L: Modern gold refining involves literal metric tons of cyanide at some step of the process, though I don't recall the exact details beyond that.

L EDIT: Having looked it up, it's even worse than it sounds! Prior to the cyanide process, the most common method involved boiling mercury after using it to leach gold out of the rocks. The cyanide process is legitimately safer and less polluting.
So, you can always just smelt ore to get the metal out, but thats the least efficient method usually.

Also, you don't have to boil the mercury. By mixing it, pulverized ore and an acid i don't remember of the top of my head you can make a thick paste. Leaving it out in the open where the sun can dry it and having people walk barefooted on it you can produce silver and gold without any open flames involved. This was how precious metal were refined in colonial latin america until the independence wars after which Spain decided to embargo its ex colonies, preventing the sale of mercury to them. It's part of the reason why those nations were perennially broke until guano or other luxury goods could be exported en masse.
 
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