What Can SV Teach an Evil Sorceress? (abandoned)

LoserThree · Aug 30, 2020

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                         NOTICES

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Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
  (the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words

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Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
  (see Collaboration Post for details on itself)

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Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes

If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block

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This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.

You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources.  When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.

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 I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
   the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
                        about it.

Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.

If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.

If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.

So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.

If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.

If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.

I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.

The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.

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                    Collaboration Post!

The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
- Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
- An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
- Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
This is the cacophonous interlude.
- Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
- No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
- Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
- Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
- Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
- Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
  - However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
  - In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
- Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
  - Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
  - The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
  - Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
  - Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
  - Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
  - New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
  - Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
  - Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
  - Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
- Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
  - Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
  - Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
  - Huh: partial success
  - Uh huh: full success
  - Whoa: superior special case success
- When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
GOTO 1

The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)

The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.

When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.

Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.

LoserThree · Mar 31, 2019

9a

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Two of CraftingDragon's votes are being counted as a third, merged vote for some reason, as is evident below. Therefore, the Mendicant vote is tied. Like last time, Bianca will choose between the two based on her preferences.

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Who Bianca Heard
3 Boosts: BungieONI
3 Boosts: liberty90
2 Boosts: Crafting Dragon
2 Boosts: Kiba
1 Boost: Demonic Spoon
0 Boosts: Ciber
0 Boosts: Arcus
0 Boosts: Rotekian
0 Boosts: 1337Procrast
0 Boosts: Star

BungieONI said:
Greetings Great Undying One, may the sun shine upon your brow and your people prosper to give you tribute. You may call me the Oni and I would call myself friend to the voice you know as Sheep and Sheep would in turn call me their friend. You may find us two voices agreeing on some things, for we share somewhat similar perspectives.

Telling you forthrightly I do not have interest at this time in telling you of techniques or devices or the nature of materials and all those things the others in the Astute Cacophony might call technology. Instead I am drawn to open an extended dialogue with you so that we may speak of society and war and the problems you bring before the Locus of the Cacophony.

To that end on the matter of the eunuch I think he is a rather curious being of pride. Without his pride in service, his certainty that he is doing good in his service, he would be meek. This pride, I think, is what he truly has to teach to anyone. Why I think so, is because while you may with effort teach anyone who is not an idiot the ways of numbers and writing and the tallying of tablet-rulers, like you have pointed out bold people as you know them have little desire to do that and only that. And their families even less at times. And so over time there would be problems and discord.

But if that boldness becomes pride in service under you in the specific form taught by the eunuch then there is much less of that. They are content in their fulfilled pride.

Be wary though of many servants trained in this fashion because their pride will curdle over many generations and there will be subtle infighting of words and poison amongst them as their pride drives them to the idea they have that there is a power that comes from being close to you.

I would suggest that you should let him teach the youth who is 'born-to-rule'. You are not taking from the nine tribes nor are you giving them strange servants and so there will be no discord among them on this. If there is to be discord it will be limited only to the walls of your great home and a tiny handful of mortals.

And eventually the eunuch will die as mortals do, and only his apprentice will remain. And that apprentice will take a student or students, on your whim, and then they may and so on. And so slowly you may alter what they teach to be more pleasing to you as you do with the songs already amongst the greater people.

[X] [Factotum] Allow the eunuch to teach the teach the 'born-to-rule' youth, singer or no

On the matter of the lesser giant wise one, I agree with you on what may have happened had he come initially with those words. Perhaps use and prosperity could be found in having them. Now the Sleomjash are accepted as always having been part of the Nine Ways Pact, and they are in truth becoming such. There is a kind of strength to be found in this multitude of unique tribes, again notable in the Sleomjash learning horsecare before the others and being well suited to it and so on. You can find as many examples as you care to.

Perhaps the strength of these lesser giants could be taken in and added. But I would expect much turmoil of some kind, and that lessons during the taking in of the Sleomjaah will be made use of. More turmoil than the Sleomjash, because they are different in obvious forms. A weakness of mortal humans of all kinds. If you so wished I could speak on this a little, though not much? Anyway in my expectation I think they would be looked down on by the Nine for a long, long time.

I do not think kindly of oath breakers either so if it must be taken I would prefer the oath be held to and I have taken a liking to your people's thoughts on honor. Honor is worth and having no honor is to be worthless. Guiding them from a great distance will assure that this looking down on happens, for where will you get the seeds but from the Nine? Discord lies that way I think, but discord whose scope I have less of a grasp on. That is obviously worse, so I say take them in.

But I also desire to listen as well. Would you please kindly share all that you know of the Galgur? We, and especially I, am not familair with giants beyond those of our own stories.

[X] [Mendicant] Send for the Galugr tribe and settle them within the lands of the Nine Nations

And for the traveller? I do not like him at all, I would kill him if I was in your seat. It may bring down wrath from some unknown things as all such actions may but what care we for the wrath of distant gods.

[X] [Huckster] Take it all, deal with objections as they occur

And now for my final topic, that of society.

I would rightly say that the Nine Nations are a healthy and flourishing society. One human may cooperate with their neighbor or with their neighbor's neighbor or with a person from another tribe in the Nine Ways Pact. There are some who may individually be untrustworthy, but that is the way of humans and it has been since before your parents birthed you and theirs before them and theirs before them all the way to the First of the First People. The metaphorical bones, the muscle, the skin of your people's society is strong. Because of that cooperation.

At the root of that cooperation is I think, a very simple example or metaphor. A man or a woman or a child can sit next to another man or a woman or a child beside a fire and they can share food without fear of poison or trickery or greed. They can sleep besides each other without fear of their throats being slit. They can rise in the morning and go out to do battle against shared enemies, sure that the person besides them will fight their enemies with them.

But take two men who do not trust each other. They will not share food together, they will not believe they are getting their proper share unless shown and even then doubt persists. They will fear knives in the night come to take their lives and will not sleep near the other. They will not fight besides each other, because their enemies are not the same. In fact they will likely fight each other as enemies. Thus with no trust, you have none of this. With no trust you have no cooperation. With no cooperation you have no society between humans. No society of any kind.

Because that is the link between all societies. From Nine Nations, to the Forest People, to the Fisher People, to the Galgur and all lesser giants. Wherever two or more humans and all those gifted twice by Leopard dwell and trust there is a society of some form.

Obviously though they all have unique Ways of living. That is the thing which differentiates them like features of the face, body and clothing differentiate people in the same tribe.

This is worthwhile to you because when that trust breaks down widely and consistently the society is dead. Even if it may lumber forward through time like an injured beast for a while, it is dead and will dissolve and rot if that breach is not corrected. I think it worthwhile to consider how you sit in the pattern of trust that ties your people together.

If you foster oath keeping, one of your people's ways of maintaining trust, and encourage trust to be worthwhile I think you will find your society becomes stronger. And will solve more disputes save the worst which need your wisdom on their own in ways pleasing to you.

Furthermore who among your people's chiefs and elders would you say know this truth about trust? And amongst those how many do you think could clearly speak on the subject? Those are good leaders in my view.

On the topic of war, warriors are a part of their greater society. But on the field of battle the society that sits in the forefront of their minds is a simple one. "I trust the men fighting with me to kill the enemy". Break that trust and you kill the army like other societies.

There are methods to do so. Fire is one, for no man can block fire and all fear it on some level. Cast fire amongst enemy warriors and their trust will weaken or break. When one faces armies that walk in tight ranks this can be supremely effective. A man squeezed in ranks with other men finds it difficult to suddenly leap out of the way without causing chaos, and so makes for an easy target.

I would speak more of this later, my speech grows overlong and I await keenly your reply.

[X] [Cacophony] BungieONI

liberty90 said:
This is Black Cat, Great Undying One.
It's a pleasure to talk with you, as always.

[X] [Factotum] Write in: Use him as your first table-ruler and select people who love numbers and are suitable for service as lesser table-rulers, but no cutting off their balls is needed, as not all customs of cities are wise, some details are idiotic. Also, there is no reason why women couldn't be table-rulers, as no cutting off balls is truly needed, and minds of women are not worse than these of men.

There is also excellent lesser advice, whispered by one of the other voices, and I shall cite these words because I'm not sure whether he is strong enough be heard: "take only willing people (from willing families) to not get discord among your tribes over children taken against their will. Make it a honor to be selected and see that they learn things like numbers and writing. I am not sure what the eunuch plans to teach them, but maybe have a singer follow the classes so that you know what is taught. Remember to choose both women and men even if the eunuch would protest."

[X] [Huckster] Tour for spells, gold for goods, anything held for anything wanted, really.

Trade is valuable, and we need more traders to freely come here with their goods. Do you remember what I said about value? He may own things that are more interesting to you than to him, and you may own things that are more interesting to him than to you. Trade can benefit both people, even when both of these people are greedy. But show him somehow that you are powerful and he needs to always trade peacefully, as it's not possible to steal from you and live. Also, try to make him interested not only in silver and gold but also in soap and strong alcohol.

Also, his warriors. Why they protect him, I feel curious? Are these warriors mercenaries? That is, warriors given some wealth, somewhat like soldiers, but used by a trader or far-away ruler and not by the King or God of their own people?

[X] [Mendicant] Call for tribute of lesser giant bond slaves, grain, and all manner of beasts; teach agriculture and pastoralism to the lesser giants for as long as their bonds last, send them back to their tribe with the seeds and small herds; guide from a great distance.

Lesser giants and wisdom of their elders sounds useful, but to allow their settlement in the core territories of your realm - this could sow great discord. They also sound like even less well-suited for a future city life than your people.

[X] [Cacophony] liberty90

These were the most pressing matters, so let's return to lesser things...

Monjolo is a great idea, congratulations to my fellow Voices, but if you want to have other machines powered by water, for example, a powerful saw used to easily cut wood, then you need more complicated water wheel.

In regards to the crop rotation: try to replace fallow with clover.

Nitrogen in the air is not bad for humans, nor animals. Too much carbon dioxide and, for example, various poisons produced in fires - these are problematic.

I imagine that having a pit for human waste around the home could be highly convenient, especially with a small structure around to protect users from rain and snow. No need for unhealthy, full of germs and smelly bucket with waste inside, and no need to go too far outside and to defecate while wet from rain. Far enough from any water wells, but not too far from the home. And as I said before, flies wouldn't be able to move germs from one place to another, not with a solid piece of wood placed on the pit opening when not in use. I strongly advise for the creation of these pits for human waste, protected from rain and with more comfort provided by a small and simple wooden structure around. These places can be called "outhouses", places where you go out of your house to do, well, you know what. But it's true that even more complicated things, like sewers, are more essential for places with more people around.

Armed Forces are also somewhat like raising one tribe over others, but better, slower, and with some luck and skill tribes wouldn't truly understand what is slowly happening. Also: Armed Forces would obey you more than one raised tribe, because soldiers would depend on your authority more, with oaths to you, and with wealth from you. A number of soldiers could be increased very slowly, with observation what works, instead of raising one tribe over all others suddenly and violently. They could be used for conquests when you decide, not any King. You could use any suitable warriors, without restriction to one tribe or another. Obviously, such solution can cause discord, but these benefits are much greater.

Given that you considered raising one tribe over another I see no reason to not strongly consider the Armed Forces instead, as the slower and more careful way, with various additional benefits.

You can start slowly, carefully, without having too many soldiers or giving them too much wealth at first, you can try to limit discord. Make people slowly consider this as normal, see what works to motivate soldiers, and only then expand your Armed Forces.

Maybe I was slightly wrong about motivating with greed and stories about greatness and honour of soldiers could be better. On the other hand, soldiers need the finest weapons, armor and perhaps the most diverse food to be the most useful. They exist to be better than usual warriors after all.

If you understand how raising one tribe over other tribes could offer more power, then you should understand how slowly raising Armed Forces over usual warriors of the tribes could offer more power. And I believe that this can be a much better way. Let tribes remain equal but less and less important and preferably more and more similar.

Another idea: you can slowly start to call your land "Empire of United Nations", or really anything that could be still used when you conquer more. I'm not good at names. But in the "Nine Nations" there is a number that should be constantly changed after any additions to the number of tribes, and this is inconvenient. You need to conquer for more power, and we now know how to make roads and minor bridges to transport tribute more easily and to allow your warriors or soldiers to move where they need to move.

Some of the new tribute could flow not only to you, but also to the victorious Army, or to these tribes that were useful during your conquest. Thanks to this many of your soldiers or people could like conquests. Roads should be extended to these new territories, and then conquest should happen again, and your land should steadily grow until you encounter something too dangerous or useless.

You would need to control and extract tribute from the newly conquered tribes with the Army at first, but then you could slowly explain to conquered people why you are better than all other Gods or Kings and why they shouldn't fight against you anymore: people need to pay tribute, but you are so wise! There is nobody with more wisdom than you, as you can teach them black soil, soap, arches and many other marvels that would make them better off conquered than free! After a generation or two, they should understand.

Always explain to people that truly good life, changes for the better (with so many of our new ideas it's better to promote changes for the better than permanence) and wisdom are truly possible only under your rule. When people argue, remind them about black soil, arches, and many other things. Make songs about that.

This is called propaganda. Use of cunning words and talking about these things that show how great and wise you are. Propaganda is the best when there are no outright lies, or not too many lies, but only good things about the ruler are said. "Without the wisdom of the Great Undying One there is less food, people are dirty, houses collapse, and children painfully die from hunger" - this is a great example of propaganda. Thanks to use of our recent ideas it's even the best propaganda: mostly true propaganda.

Never kill all people who can write and read, reading and written records are too important. As you can see, we were right and there truly are meek people with minds of slaves. Such people are bad warriors, but extremely useful in many other ways. When somebody tries to use writing against you, kill that person and their supporters, not everyone who can write. Many meek table-rulers, traders, and people will support you regardless.

There are ways to make people believe that village tablet-rulers are useful for their families, despite mainly writing for you. I advise you as I usually advise: give them a small number of pretty things, and their family should also benefit. If you fear discord (as I can now understand better), then make the whole village believe that they benefit from your table-ruler in such a fashion, more than they would benefit from one more person doing usual work.

Cutting off balls sounds better as severe punishment than as something needed for table-rulers. Maybe you could persuade people to cut off balls of criminals sometimes, instead of making them completely useless with a severe beating and thus wasting potential labor? Throw people to the winter or outright kill them only if they persist in their bad ways even without balls. Also, of course, criminals can be used to experiment with the human body, and some of these experiments can cause death... So maybe useless beatings and useless deaths could be completely abolished? There is a need for punishments, but no need to simply waste lives of these that steal or murder, you can use even them.

About coins - I now understand that these may be badly suited to usual life in your society, at least for now, but if you ever encounter foreign traders more interested in the weight of the metal than fancy decorations - then reconsider. If somebody wants to make bronze from your copper anyway, then "coins" of equal weight could be practical for such a person, more than unrefined ore or fancy things made out of copper.

You said: "The gold figure which Va of Lan clutched as he died, years back, was melted down and remade into a fine scepter cap. Along with the rest of the fine scepter, it then joined my tribute hoard." The question is, do you need a fine scepter cap? Much more work was wasted to produce that than a few simple coins with stamped weight, I'm pretty sure. It's much easier to make simple coins of equal weight, and then you know how much metal you exactly have when you want to melt metal for something truly needed.

If you are not sure whether fine golden scepter would be ever useful and it may be well melted into something else after ten years, then better store simple coins instead of wasting more skilled labor to create a fine scepter.

Also, maybe coins could be useful to pay foreign mercenaries someday?

One wheel of the wheelbarrow should be at the front. The rear end is raised by the user with two - firmly attached to the wheelbarrow - sticks called handles. Then push wheelbarrow where you want. As I said, wheelbarrows are small and good for work, not travel.

A piece of small advice about writing: it's good to use a separate symbol for the end of a sentence, and use small empty spaces between words. Things should be then slightly easier to read.

In regards to trade language, mentioned a long time ago, I wanted to slowly reduce confusion, not increase. Make one logical and simple language more and more important, for writing and trade at first, so that other ones are very slowly less and less used. Slowly reduce confusion, increase unity. Instead of imposing one tribe over another suddenly. You can also use existing tongue that is the best suited for that.

Usually, not always but usually, men are stronger and thus better as warriors than women, better with clubs or axes. But both men and women share equal mind and abilities to learn, so maybe people could use women as horse-riders until horses are bigger? Not that boys could be prohibited from doing that, they surely love horse-riding, but maybe women could do this longer, even when fully grown.

In regards to the sand water filter, obviously place this sand in some sort of a big stone or concrete container, with water outlet at the bottom.

Scissors are tools for cutting hair, rope, cloth and shearing sheep. Scissors are hand-operated shearing tools. A pair of scissors consists of a pair of metalblades pivoted so that the sharpened edges slide against each other when the handles opposite to the pivot are closed.

A buttress is a structure built against or projecting from a wall which serves to support or reinforce the wall.

The flying buttress is a specific form of buttress composed of an arch that extends from the upper portion of a wall to a pier of great mass, in order to convey to the ground the lateral forces that push a wall outwards, which are forces that arise from vaulted ceilings of stone and from wind-loading on roofs.

Machines...

Definition: A pump is a machine which moves a liquid from one place to another, often upwards.

A screw pump is a machine used for transferring water from a low-lying body of water into irrigation ditches. Water is pumped by turning a screw-shaped surface inside a pipe.

The screw pump consists of a screw (screw is a spirally grooved surface surrounding a central rod/stick) inside a hollow pipe.

Do you understand what "spiral" means? Like... I don't know how to explain... Like snake wrapped around the stick, such snake can be also said to be "spirally wrapped", though this is a pretty bad comparison.

The screw can be turned by manual labor, or cattle, or wind power but we shall explain wind power in the future. As the screw turns the bottom end scoops up a volume of water. This water is then pushed up the pipe by the rotating screw until it pours out from the top of the pipe.

A screw can be built out of wood strips (or occasionally bronze sheeting) around a heavy wooden pole. A pipe can be built around the screw using long, narrow wooden boards fastened to their periphery and waterproofed with pitch.

The contact surface between the screw and the pipe does not need to be perfectly watertight, as long as the amount of water being scooped with each turn is large compared to the amount of water leaking out of each section of the screw per turn. If water from one section leaks into the next lower one, it will be transferred upwards by the next segment of the screw.

Archimedes screw, Wikipedia, heavily modified and simplified, with some new words and sentences added, as is usually the case

Roads and trade...

Maps. A map is a symbolic representation of land on a flat surface, clay tablet, stone, leather, whatever. For example, decide that there is a symbol for a village, lines symbolize roads, and size of average human finger symbolize distance that average healthy human can cross during one day on a decent and level road. These are obviously only examples that need to be changed and modified to better serve your needs. Now, you can make your map of some territory on a clay tablet, a picture that shows where villages are, where roads are, and how much distance may be between these. You can also include rivers, hills or whatever you like; also some written words, names of places and numbers if pictures are not enough. Maps are especially useful to traders and travelers.

There are much better ways to make maps, but I think that at first simple one is needed.

Road signs are signs erected at the side of roads to give instructions or provide information to road users. For example, writing that says "River left, hills right" and is carved on a big piece of wood where two roads meet, is an example of a road sign that helps people to understand where they are. Road signs may use pictures instead of words or both.

Road signs can be used to reassure travelers that the proper path is being followed, and to indicate for example remaining distance to the nearest destination. It's the best to use the same pictures or words everywhere to indicate the same things, then there should be less confusion.

For the same reason, roads may have assigned numbers, represented properly on maps and road signs.

How many rivers do you have? Do you use sails, big pieces of cloth that can catch wind when there is good wind, to help with moving boats? I know that cloth is expensive, but this is very useful. Deep and wide rivers stop roads and probably are impassable by bridges that you could create, but at the same time can be like a free giant road for big boats.

The calendar is a written tool for organizing days and years. People use calendars to say when something happened, and for planning things that have not happened yet. The calendar gives the days and years numbers, called calendar dates. By knowing what day something happened or will happen (if it's something planned, or something that happens every year), people have an easier life. Knowing how many days from now season would start for crops is very useful for farmers and people who eat. Knowing year number is very useful for written records. Obviously you should decide about some sort of starting number, maybe introduction of the calendar can be the year ONE.

If your world is like the world that I had seen in my dreams and know about, then one year should be composed out of between 365 and 366 days. This is inconvenient, but to be sure that seasons can be predicted properly with use of your calendar, you can have common years at 365 days, and then special 366 days year from time to time, probably once per every four years... if your world is similar enough to my wisdom and dreams about different worlds, of course.

More details about the human body... The nervous system is the part of human or an animal that coordinates its actions by transmitting signals to and from different parts of its body. The nervous system derives its name from nerves, which are bundles of fibers, that emanate from the brain and spinal cord, and branch repeatedly to innervate every part of the body. Thanks to nerves humans and animals can move their body, hands or legs without magic. I think that magic and spirits have no need for nerves, but I have no proper wisdom about magic and spirits. Nervous system damaged below brain can cause parts of the body, for example legs, to be still alive but useless - unless there are magical ways to bypass that, but magic is unknown to me. There is no mundane cure that would be known to me.

IRON. Yes, iron. Finally more about iron.
Iron oxides are chemical compounds composed of iron and oxygen.
Iron ores are rocks and minerals from which metallic iron can be extracted. The ores are usually rich in iron oxides and vary in color from dark grey, bright yellow, or deep purple to rusty red.
A bloomery is a type of furnace once used widely for smelting iron from its oxides.

A bloomery's product is a porous mass of iron and slag called a bloom, which is usually consolidated and further forged into useful wrought iron.

Definition, forging - heating something in a fire or furnace and hammering it.

A bloomery consists of a pit or chimney with heat-resistant walls made of earth, clay, or stone. Near the bottom, one or more pipes (made of clay) enter through the side walls. These pipes, called tuyeres, allow air to enter the furnace, either by natural draught, or forced with bellows. An opening at the bottom of the bloomery may be used to remove the bloom, or the bloomery can be tipped over and the bloom removed from the top.

The first step taken before the bloomery can be used is the preparation of the charcoal and the iron ore. The charcoal - as you know - is produced by heating wood to produce the nearly pure carbon fuel needed for the smelting process. The ore is broken into small pieces and usually roasted in a fire to remove any moisture in the ore. Any large impurities in the ore can be crushed and removed. Since slag from previous blooms may have a high iron content, it can also be broken up and recycled into the bloomery with the new ore.

In operation, the bloomery is preheated by burning charcoal, and once hot, iron ore and additional charcoal are introduced through the top, in a roughly one-to-one ratio. Inside the furnace, carbon monoxide from the incomplete combustion of the charcoal reduces the iron oxides in the ore to metallic iron, without melting the ore; this allows the bloomery to operate at lower temperatures than the melting temperature of the ore. As the desired product of a bloomery is iron which is easily forgeable, it requires a low carbon content. The temperature and ratio of charcoal to iron ore must be carefully controlled to keep the iron from absorbing too much carbon and thus becoming unforgeable.

Rust. Rust is an iron oxide, a usually red oxide formed by the reaction of iron and oxygen in the presence of water or air moisture.
Given sufficient time, oxygen, and water, any iron mass will eventually convert entirely to rust and disintegrate. In this one way iron is worse than bronze, but may be still very useful.

Glass: you can melt sand with great heat to create glass, that can be then formed into interesting shapes when hot. Glass is not very useful at first, but can be pretty and valued by people and traders. Things made out of glass are weak and can be easily destroyed, but can be pretty and are strong enough to be used as decorations or cups.

Glassblowing is a glassforming technique that involves inflating molten glass into a bubble with the aid of a blowpipe.

Bloomery - Wikipedia

Finally, I would like to share with you idea for a simple, useful tool for your tablet-rulers and singers. The multiplication table. Imagine that you own 6 slaves. You want to travel and need 8 pieces of bread for each of your slaves. How many pieces of bread do you need? The answer is obviously 48. But how any person that barely knows numbers could answer such a question easily? The multiplication table.

Carve on the wood the following numbers, so that one row of numbers is directly under another:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. And underneath:
2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20. And underneath:
3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30. And underneath:
4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40. And underneath:
5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50. And underneath:
6, 12, 18, 24, 30, 36, 42, 48, 54, 60. And underneath:
7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42, 49, 56, 63, 70. And underneath:
8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, 80. And underneath:
9, 18, 27, 36, 45, 54, 63, 72, 81, 90. And underneath:
10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100.

You can now easily see all common multiplication patterns on your piece of wood, and thus there is no need to memorize these patterns. In fact, you could make your table even bigger. It's possible to also have a table for addition, you should be able to figure out one easily enough.

Wikipedia, Simple Wikipedia

liberty90 said:
Consider my Factotum write-in. There is no reason to copy castration of table-rulers, or to destroy some basic gender equality, that exists in our tribal society.

I shall now talk loudly with whispers of my fellow Voices.

One of Voices said or wants to say, after a pretty good explanation of killing germs: "That said, these measures should normally not be needed for dealing with common illnesses, since the body already knows how to fight off most of these". Not true. Many children and older people die from common illnesses. Adults weakened by wounds or scurvy can easily die from common illnesses.

And sterilization of tools used during surgery is, in fact, needed always.

liberty90 said:
Showing him her hoard is a way to show the civilised world and many other traders that there is more than barbarians here.

liberty90 said:
Human races are equal, and in fact talking about human races is pseudoscience.

Not so in this case, not in the case of humans and giants... there differences are true and great. And not for the better. There would be conflict. Internal raids.

This is not true. Value is subjective. We have more need for weapons than for gold in the vault.

liberty90 said:
If we explain iron, sure, in fact then we could use these trade links to export our wares. But for now they enjoy comparative advantage and we need to buy their goods to increase our productive forces faster.

There is not enough bronze for tools and swords, for now.

liberty90 said:
@CraftingDragon

If you do not want to castrate people, vote for my write-in. "Mark them" is obviously castration.

CraftingDragon said:
[X] Cacophony CraftingDragon

Greetings oh great undying one. You can call me Dragon, tough I am more proficient in crafting than burning with fire.

I will first try to answer some of your earlier questions that i have not seen my fellow voices yet answering:

Making thread from plants:
As my fellow voices already mentioned there is many plants that can be used for the making of thread and fabric. I think hemp was mentioned before but if you don't have that then there are some other plants that I am more familiar with. Flax is a plant growing in the colder north of my world where I come from. The flowers of this plant are pure pale blue, about an finger length in diameter, with five petals. The fruit is a round, dry capsule with a diameter of about half the flower, containing several glossy brown seeds. There might be Fax with different color of flower as well. The seeds can be eaten but it is not now the focus of our interest.

Flax for making thread should be harvested around 100 days after the seed has been sown or 30 days after the plants flower have started blooming or 14 days after the blooming has ended and the capsule has formed (all these times should result in around the same time, but it might wary depending on your weather, some testing may be needed). When harvesting, pull the plant up with its root to get longer threads. After harvesting you should dry the pants, remove the seed and then you should do something called retting.

In retting you will basically have germs help you take away the unwanted parts of the plant and leave you mostly the fibers (long strands of plant material) to make thread from. I will try to explain two ways of retting that you might try and decide which one is best for your use:

Water retting is the way you can use if you have slowly moving or still water like a bog, lake or a slow river. You should bind up bundles of the plants, and put them under the water for a time between 8-14 days. This time depends on the water temperature as well as other things so some testing is needed. If you use a too short time the next step is difficult and if you use too much time the thread you will gain will be weak. This step could also be made in two steps by submerging it for about half the time, taking it up and drying it for several months then submerging it for the rest of the time. This would give you a softer fabric but takes more work. One should not drink from the same place as the water retting is done nor to close downstream.

If you don't have suitable waters to use you can use the other method called dew retting. This is better in areas where the nights are warm and moist and the day is hot. To do this you should spread out your dried plants on a grass surface or similar and let them be there for 14-21 days having your workers turn them several times during the process. This will however give you a darker thread that is not as fine as the Water retted one.

After retting you should dry the stalks for something between 14 to 60 days, rather longer than shorter.

Now you are ready for the final step of processing before you can start spinning Flax thread, called dressing. First you need to hack the stalks. This means you want to break the stalks so that the wood like bits break but not cutting the fibers. One way to do this is putting it trough "rollers". After this you need to remove the woody bits in a process called scutching. This is the most laborious part of the process. A small bunch of fibers at a time the stalks should be hanged over a vertical plank (from a notch) and then pulling down on it with a wooden knife to remove the wooden bits. After that you should use coarse combs (not as dense as for hair) to remove remaining bits of non-fiber. Now you have fiber you can start spinning thread from, in a similar way as you would spin thread from wool.

Flex fabric is much harder to dye than wool but it is easier to clean than wool and could for example be used for more comfortable undergarments. It is better for dressing wounds than wool as well as for storing food in. You can also make a type of armor called gambeson from it by making clothes with many layers of flex fabric. This I can explain another time if you want.

Many other plants can also be used, for example the earlier mentioned Hemp. Here the process is basically the same but the times I told might vary and those I don't know myself. I have also been told that cloth made from hemp is not as soft as that from Flax

Ice house:
Earlier you were told by other voices about digging a hole to make a cold room for storing food. I have some suggestions of improvement:

The room would not necessarily have to be buried into the ground, instead you could instead make a small house with thick stone or brick walls and preferably stone ceiling (using the arcs you were told about) . The room can be made less wet by making the floor a bit slanted or with a small groove for the melt water to run to a pipe buried at the floor level that the water can flow away along. A pipe is a hollow cylinder that water can flow through, it can be made for example from a series of ceramic vases without bottoms, that fit into each other to form a hole for the water. Remember that the outside end of the pipe have to be lower than the inside end and not blocked (this is easier if the room is not buried).
You could also make the room half buried if you have a hill more easy than digging a hole straight down. Dig away part of the hillside, build a house there, then put the hill back around the house. The floor of the house should be at the same level of the ground, and the same pipe system i explained should be used to get the water out. Do not bury the ceiling of the house. I have newer don this so it should be tried.

All the ice does not have to be stored in this ice house, you can store ice blocks cut from for example a lake in a pile and bury it with wood shavings left over from your carpenters work (also dried bog earth (peat) or sand could be used if you don't have enough wood shavings). Ice can be taken from the pile and put to melt in the ice house a little at a time. The ones buried in the pile should melt slower. The ice taken from a frozen lake at least 1 finger lent thick (or more) would be best. Try to keep it in as big pieces as possible to have it melt slower.

There are other ways of preserving food as well. What methods do your people already use?

Writing:
In addition to clay tables, you could, for training of writing and for calculating make wax tablets. This is basically just a shallow box with melt beeswax poured in and then cooled down so that it hardens. In it you can write with a sharp stick or similar, and the wax can make flat easily again.

Candles:
My fellow voices have earlier told you about candles for light and you ask:

I will try to answer this now. I do not know what oil you have in your oil nor the exact design of them but hear me out O undying one. In an oil lamp the oil is liquid, and if you tilt the lamp all your oil will escape which make it hard to carry around, an oil lamp made from pottery is also breaking easily, and then the oil is lost. In a candle the fuel is a piece of wax or tallow, and it is easy to carry around in a bag when not in use.

I will now try to explain the process of making candles:

Material; Tallow:
if you know of the making on tallow or lard this is no new thing for you.
In my word the fat of the pig is called lard and the fat of cattle is called tallow. I think tallow is better for candles as it is harder when cold.
You take the fat of the animal, the best you find for example around the kidneys (i think these were explained earlier by my fellow voices), but other parts are good as well try to take as much fat and as little meat as possible (the white soft parts). These you cut into pieces and put into a cooking pot and warm slowly (do not burn them). When the pieces warm the fat becomes liquid and runs out of them. After this you want to get away all the remaining pieces so only the liquid remains (you can use a cloth to let the liquid run trough to get pieces out for example. Now just let the liquid cool and it will become stiff again. This tallow/lard will be tasty in cooking and will hold for over a year, but you can also make candles of them:

The making of candles:
I will now try to explain how to make a candle. There are other ways as well but i start with this:
You take beeswax or tallow and warm it carefully over a fire till it melts (you should save a pot for this and use it for this as it will be hard to clean). Beeswax will make nicer smelling, less smoky candles, but you don't have plenty of it yet. Now when you have the liquid tallow/beeswax take a straight stick and fasten to it string with a fingers length between them. You can add as many as you wish as long as they all will fit into your pot at the same time. Now dip your string once in the pot and take it up. Wait for a while so that this layer will harden a bit, then repeat. You will notice that there will be a thicker and thicker layer of material on your thread. do this as long as you wish for example till the waxed string is as thick as your finger. Now you have a candle. Candles can also be scented by putting scented flowers in the oil, but this I have no experience on and would suggest you try only after getting the candle done.

Now to the matters you wanted answers on:

[X] [Factotum] Write in: Use him as your first table-ruler and select people who love numbers and are suitable for service as lesser table-rulers, but no cutting off their balls is needed, as not all customs of cities are wise, some details are idiotic. Also, there is no reason why women couldn't be table-rulers, as no cutting off balls is truly needed, and minds of women are not worse than these of men.

As Black cat said do not cut of their balls i see not the reasons of this barbaric thing as good enough. I would also suggest that you take only willing people (from willing families) to not get discord among your tribes over children taken against their will. Make it a honor to be selected and see that they learn things like numbers and writing. I am not sure what the eunuch plans to teach them, but maybe have a singer follow the classes so that you know what is taught. Remember to choose both women and men even if the eunuch would protest.

[x] [Mendicant] Send for the Galugr tribe and settle them within the lands of the Nine Nations

I see no reason to turn away or betray one that have asked for help with the words of your people. I am sure there is land inside the Nine Nations not actively in use. Even tough the lesser giants are temperamental they could be an asset later on. They are strong, which are a good thing in crafts like stone building and blacksmithing and it sounds like they can be fearsome soldier especially with some training.

[x] [Huckster] Write in: Show enough to get interest and trade some, but don't show all and trade with patience

This i think was the trickiest of your problems o Undying One as the decision might have effect also outside your country trough trade. I would firstly not kill the man just for asking, as if traders coming to you is killed more fill stop coming sooner or later. I would not show them all of your hoard as that would only invite thieves, but you might consider moving part of your horde to a different room, not too small to make you seem low, but not big enough to make the "trader" too full of greed. Have some warriors protect this hoard and maybe some traps if these quests would try anything stupid.
I would suggest trading some with this trader, you could have your eunuch that knows worth of things to people outside your nations give you advise on if you are being robbed or not or perhaps some of your Lan traders. Think on what you need, not on what glitters the most, and keep all your magical trinkets in the hoard you do not show especially the dangerous ones.

If you are able to get some of the soldiers seduced and to stay on your lands this would be a good opportunity for learning new ways, but don't make this your main task, nor do it too obviously.

I could write about more stuff as well having to do with food preserving and crafting, but maybe this is enough for one time

Here is links i used wile writing the candle making and the thread making instructions. I knew many things from before, but used still sources for checking facts.

Thread making:
Scutching - Wikipedia
Flax - Wikipedia
Flax - Wikipedia
How Linen is Made

On candle and tallow making:
Tallow candles, dipping, trimming the wick, snuffing
How to Make Tallow Candles | The Prairie Homestead
How to Render Tallow | The Prairie Homestead

Kiba said:
An army that pushes people around to make them obey you is clearly an insufficiently complete answer, or rather, only one possible answer or only one purpose among many. Many of the voices do not fear the armies, because the armies' purpose is to protect the people from the armies of other people who may wished to do them harm.

How does one inspire loyalty from the armies? That is a difficult and complex question to answer, but it surely does not necessary means that the nine tribes will need to cower before your army, especially if the nine tribes think the armies are themselves, then there is no need to raise a tribe above other.

I will show one way to make an army loyal and cohesive. Let for example, we want the army to be loyal to the nine nations or to the army itself, instead of particular tribe they belong to. We called such belonging, their 'identity'. It could be any group, from group of warriors, their family, the tribe they are in, and so forth. Whichever group they have the most loyalty to is usually their primary identity.

So how do we create an army identity?

You want to start by mixing members from the various tribes into individual groups, so that their survival and success is dependent on their group, succeeding. You then pitch groups of warriors against each other in mock battles and training. They will learn that if they want to live, they will need to cooperate with other warriors in their group. It does not matter what tribes they belong to.

Thus, you should reward groups of warriors on how well they fare in battle or how they helped support other groups in battle. Never reward people by what tribe they belong to. Praise them for defending the tribes, punish them for putting themselves above of that the army or the group.

This will over time create a cohesive identity for an army to work together instead of bickering with each other or favoring one tribe above another.

You can recreate this process for any group you wishes to create or strengthen.

You will also need to weave yourself into the creation of the identities so that they will be loyal to you, but I will leave it as exercises for other voices.

will expand more.

Demonic Spoon said:
Black Cat's wheelbarrow design is inefficient. The single wheel should be large and in the center, coming out through the the surface of the wheelbarrow, with a frame to prevent the cargo from touching it. This way, more of the weight of the cargo is carried by the wheel instead of the human pusher.

Demonic Spoon said:
While it is theoretically feasible to domesticate most animals, it is much harder for many not already suited for social interactions, and there should be a commensurate utility gained from the large amount of time and resources invested to accomplish this.

Demonic Spoon said:
For a third time, oh Undying Bianca, I greet you as the Demon.

I would like to know if you know of glass, melted sand, and how to make and form it into useful shapes?

Yes, in the manner of wolves, and of lions, and of the dolphins, and humans themselves and other creatures. They have the capability to live together in groups, and display social behaviours like grooming each other or caring for the young of others. The largest benefit of social living is possibly that of social learning, which allows members of a group to teach others how to better get food or warn of dangers, without needing to resort to laborious and often lethal trial and error.

Social Cats:
At first glance, cats other than lions may appear to be solitary creatures, but under certain circumstances, such as good food availability, the need for shelter, or the need for mutual protection, cats will naturally congregate into groups, and as a result, have the capacity to be socialized to live in human groups.

There seems to be two separate topics that you have touched on in your discussion of body language. I will talk about both of them.

Body Language and non-Verbal sounds as Social Cues

To humans, body language provides important subtext to conversation, a hidden layer that their conscious minds often don't even register, although it is has a large effect on the conversation. Tricks developed because being able to communicate well with each other is an advantage. Eye-contact, smiling, frowning, crying, the set of the shoulders, laughing, the set of the legs and arms, even more probably, are all non-verbal cues to help communicate the mood of the first person, and arouse reactions in the other members of his group. If a child is crying, this easily and immediately communicates to their caretakers that something is wrong, even before the child learns how to speak, for example.

This can also be seen in dogs, that you might be more familiar with than cats. The wagging of the tail, the puffing up of the back hair, the ears going flat against the head, growling. A dog looks different when it wants to play compared to when it is ready to defend itself.

Cat Body Language:
There are several factors to take note of with the body language of cat. The tail, the ears, the eyes, the cat's stance and pose, and their orientation towards you. Avoid too much direct eye contact with a cat, as this is seen as a threatening gesture, and, unlike dogs, they usually do not want to have their bellies rubbed when they roll onto their back and display them.

General Mood:

Neutral (Relaxed)
This is how a cat should spend most of their waking hours, and is a vital part of cat language – relaxed, content and comfortable in familiar surroundings. They should look like they're content to watch the world go by.

Signs of neutral cat behaviour

If lying down, they could be stretched out, curled up into a ball, or lying on their front with paws neatly tucked underneath them.

Their eyes might be blinking softly, or half closed.

Their ears will be relaxed, held casually upright and forward – although they could swivel around independently if listening to things around them.

Their whiskers will be relaxed, away from the sides of their face, and they may almost appear to smile.

Their body has no tension to suggest they might be about to spring into action.

Focused
If a cat is concentrating on a small, moving object, or on something new in their immediate area, you'll notice that their body language will change as they try to work out how to best respond to it.

Signs of focused cat behaviour

Their eyes will be open with pupils narrowed.

Their ears and whiskers will be pricked forward, with their body angled towards the focus of their attention.

Their body might be low to the ground as they stalk, with hind legs coiled under their body.

Cat's tail language will show focus by being held out low behind them. The end of their tail, along with their hindquarters, might be twitching as they get ready to pounce. This is one of the more obvious cat tail signs to look out for – once you see it, you'll know they're hunting.

If the object of their focus is you, for example if they're trying to get food or strokes, they might rub against you with tail held in the air.

Happy
A happy cat is easy to recognise – you should be able to pick up their cat body language easily. This is the state you'll want a cat to be in as much as possible.

Signs of happy cat behaviour

When sitting, a cat will be relaxed and upright, with ears pointed up and forward, but relaxed, sometimes swivelling gently towards familiar sounds like voices.

When lying down, they may have their paws tucked neatly underneath them, or be lying stretched out on their side or even on their back, with legs spread outwards, which shows they are very happy!

They may snooze with their eyes closed or half open, or look heavy-lidded – almost like they are daydreaming at times! If they blink very slowly, try blinking slowly back to show you're relaxed too – this mimicking behaviour is a great way to bond with a cat.

Whiskers will be relaxed and their tail still – or held high with a slight curl if they're standing to say hello to you.

If you stroke a cat, their eyes may close in contentment and they will gently purr.

Anxious
Cats can be very sensitive, especially to change. It can take some time for cats to settle after unexpected changes, so learning to read the symptoms of anxious cat behaviour can help you help a cat back to a relaxed state. The sooner you recognise this in a cat's body language, the sooner you can offer a reassuring stroke when they approach you for reassurance. Give a cat 2-3 days after any big change to become accustomed to it, and to return to normal.

Signs of anxious cat behaviour

Cat eyes will be open and not blinking, with pupils dilated into an oval or circle.

Their ears might move from their relaxed forward position to scan for more information, swivelling around independently from each other. If they are very anxious, they may even flatten back to their head.

Their head will begin to lower, with whiskers pulled back to the side to appear small and non-threatening – or even be swept forward on alert.

As anxiety increases, cats might start to cower, or their back might arch to prepare to run.

Cat tail language is very important here – their tail might be still or moving slowly side to side at the tip, which is a sign of anxiety. If you see this distinctive cat tail sign, make sure to offer some reassurance.

Fearful
Anxious cat behaviour might be subtle, but when a cat is afraid, it should be easier to spot – if they're scared by something such as loud noises, the cat won't be reassured by a stroke. Their body language is telling you that they're frightened, and it will only return to normal when they feel safe. Try not to move quickly to try and comfort them, as you could be seen as another threat. Instead, remove anything that could be causing their fear if you can, and wait for them to calm down.

Symptoms of fearful cat behaviour

Cat ears will be flattened back against their head, which might be lowered with gaze angled upwards.

They may run away, or stand or crouch very still if this isn't possible.

Their eyes will be open very wide, with pupils fully dilated and whiskers flattened or bristling.

They may hiss or spit at close threats, growl or strike with claws out.

Some cats will straighten their front legs to make themselves look taller, or arch their backs and fluff themselves up to look bigger.

They will stands sideways to the threat, also to make themselves look bigger.

Their tail may be held under their body, or be slashing vigorously from side to side.

Frustrated
Cats might be actively frustrated at a short-term specific event, like not being able to reach their favourite toy, or be affected by longer-term, more depressive frustration at a lack of stimulation.

Symptoms of frustrated cat behaviour

An actively frustrated cat usually focuses intently on their object of frustration, and will try everything they can do to get what they want.

All their senses are tuned onto their goal – eyes will be wide open with pupils dilated, ears forward, and whiskers forward-pointing and spread.

They may pace impatiently if they can't get to what they want.

Cats can't maintain this frustration forever, so if they can't get what they want, they will either give up, or in some cases enter into a longer-term frustration or even depression, depending on the source of their frustration.

Cats with longer-term depression may often be lethargic, off their food and won't want to play or interact with others.

Angry
If a cat displays angry behaviour, one must tread carefully. Always avoid provoking an angry cat - don't stare or shout at them, or make sudden movements, and avoid trying to touch or comfort them as they may interpret this as an added threat and lash out. Instead, retreat slowly, remove any threats if it's safe to do so and give a cat time and space to calm down.

Symptoms of angry cat behaviour

An angry cat will be rigid, with tail held out stiff and straight or curled around and under their body.

They will act very differently from usual – they could be silent, hissing, spitting or growling.

They will try to look large and threatening, with fur erect, stiff front legs, or crouching in a threatening manner.

Their ears will be tense, and flat back against their head, and whiskers will be stiff away from their face.

Their eyes will be hard and focussed. Their pupils may be narrowed, although some cats might have round, unblinking eyes.

Relieved
When an angry, scared or frustrated cat feels reassured that the perceived threat has gone, they will likely start to act relieved. Just as it's important to recognise when they are feeling angry or frightened, learning to tell when a cat is relieved is key to helping them feel like their normal, relaxed selves again.

Symptoms of relieved cat behaviour

A cat's whole body can show relief – some cats even make a full-body stretch to release tension.

Their eyes, ears, head, body and tail will all visibly relax.

Whiskers will return to a calm, position away from the face, and their head will lower.

Some may yawn, turn away and half-close their eyes, or even have a good wash.

Understanding Cat Behaviour and Body Language

Sign Language:
It is possible to create a language to communicate between people through their bodies, without using voices or sound. This is known as sign language. Primarily using the hands and arms, a variety of unique gestures or signs can be created and combined together into a proper language, useful when silent communication is needed, like in battle or on a hunt, or to communicate with people who are deaf, those who cannot hear, either because they were born that way, lost their hearing with advanced age, or through some sort of injury or illness.

Hours and Shadow-Clock
Take a day as the period from one midnight, to the next midnight, the middle of the night. Now divide this day period into twenty-four equal portions. Each of these twenty-four time periods is an hour. That is what I mean when I speak of an hour. A week is seven days. A fortnight is two weeks, originating from a way to say fourteen nights. A month is a period of roughly thirty days or four weeks. A year is twelve months, or roughly three hundred and sixty days.

The passing of time can be measured during the day by making a circular shape on a flat surface or against a wall, with markings for more or less ten hours of the day and the two hours of twilight, with a long stick in the middle or at the top, with the movement of the shadow of the central stick indicating the passing of time. Various configurations are possible and experimentation is encouraged.

As the light of the sun will vary over the seasons, this can to an extent also be used to track the year with more elaborate and larger designs

Diet
Meat, fish, eggs, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, fishbones or milk and a small amount of salt should cover most of the dietary needs of humans. Grains are good for preventing starvation and do have several useful nutrients, but will not alone make humans grow big and strong. By far the easiest way to make sure humans are getting everything they need, is to increase the variety of their diet. This also helps to prevent famine, as if they have multiple sources of food, there is less chance that all the sources will have poor harvests in a particular year.

Multiple crops, fruit trees, berry bushes, and fishing would all be important components in ensuring that your people eat what they need.

You may now better understand why many of the voices have been in favour of increasing the dietary variety of your people.

Copper Ores
I believe you are using the ore Chalcopyrite. It does not contain arsenic. It contains sulphur which is probably being partially released as a poisonous gas during smelting, and it contains iron, but not in a form that is easy to extract. There are probably better iron ores available to you. There are several dark ores that contain copper, so I couldn't say with surety which ones the Nine People are using. More information would be required.

It may be possible to decrease the harm among your smelters by having them wear cloth-masks soaked in water over their nose and mouth while working, these cloths should be discarded after one use, as they have probably become acidic from the sulphur gas reacting with the water.

Trade for herbs, steal them, search for herbs, and test new plants? I can describe to you the characteristics of some common useful plants, and where you are more likely to find them, if you wish, but that might end up quite longwinded. Often, tribal people living deep in the wilderness, who hunt and gather plants to survive, will also have an extensive plantlore, knowing hundreds of different types of plants and their uses, so you could try to take advantage of these herbalists to acquire new types.

[X] [Cacophony] Demonic Spoon
[X] [Factotum] Select some few of those who the eunuch claims are meant to serve, mark them, and have the eunuch teach them to live in that way

While there is much nonsense among what the Eunuch says, he sounds like a potentially competent administrator. I would advise you, oh Undying Bianca, to form two groups who serve under you, one the religious and cultural, your Singers, another the administrative and ruling, your Table-Rulers. This would hopefully prevent mistakes by your stewards from harming your divine authority, and also prevent veneration for divine authority from making a mess of administration.

[X] [Mendicant] Call for tribute of lesser giant bond slaves, grain, and all manner of beasts; teach agriculture and pastoralism to the lesser giants for as long as their bonds last, send them back to their tribe with the seeds and small herds; guide from a great distance

Lesser Giants could serve well as warriors, to send to the front lines and where the fighting is thickest. Steps should perhaps be taken to make them feel part of the Nine Nations as well, but for now they are too dangerous to keep close, but too useful to throw away.

[X] [Huckster] Take it all, deal with objections as they occur
I like not this man. Kill him.

Which is a bad thing, generally. Trade does not benefit those in the lower position, which we probably would be right now, seeing how this foreigner treats us.

Demonic Spoon said:
The castration of servants at high positions is a deliberate, calculated choice, to prevent them from forming their own dynasties within positions of power that may weaken the authority or rulership of the reigning monarch, and to ensure the servant's first and only loyalty is to their ruler, not to their family or children. It is not strictly necessary, and also is not completely reliable, but should not be discounted or dismissed out of hand.

Personally, I, the Demon, would recommend the usage of Eunuchs, as they help prevent infighting within your table-rulers, or attempts to overthrow you, especially if you draw from young orphans or foreign slaves.

It should also be noted, that if castration is done young enough, this will prevent the voice of a boy from changing to that of a man, which may be of interest to your Singers, oh Undying Bianca.

Ciber said:
There are a great many choices of much impact.
We have three outsider who could be useful, but if we favor them overmuch then there will be trouble with the tribes.
We must answer for each;
How much should Bianca value what they can give her.
How much should Bianca value what they desire in return.
What is the Opportunity Cost?
When you take an action, the opportunity cost is the value of all your other possible choices. As a recent example, consider your attack upon the giants. Your direct cost was all the time and effort of gathering the hunter, the spirits, armor, and weapons. But your opportunity cost was all the things you could have done instead. You could have spent all your time ensuring the harvest. You could have gained, over the course of a lifetime, tribute from all those hunters who died. You could have disappeared into the wilds and spent a season carving rocks into phallic shapes. How much you value all the things you could have done instead, that is the opportunity cost.

[Factotum]
I am unsure. He could be a good way to start up an order of scribes. I don't like most of the available options. Will have to revisit.
[Mendicant]
This could backfire horribly. I almost want to just refuse and leave them be. We have no idea if his "secrets" will be of any use. He could well die before we get them. The tribes could give some massive backlash from this. And the high "Passions" might not lend well to future city life.
[Huckster]
I think it would be "Interesting" (not necessarily best) to send him away with tales of our riches to attract more traders, but that hinges on him having useful trades. The seduction idea sounds hilarious. But how can we modify it to account for the obvious failure modes?

Code of Life
Children are similar to their parents. Not just among the Peoples, but among all life great and small, plant or animal. Some rare plants and the very smallest animals have only one parent, but the majority have two. I tell you now that these similarities are not merely skin deep. In fact, all living things possess a set of instructions that dictate their growth. To clarify, these instructions do not, and cannot, dictate the precise position of every hair upon the body, or every minor vessel of blood within. Instead, they contain the patterns from which such features are derived. For instance in almost all animals the color of hair / fur is determined by balance of only two substances.
Smallest Life
Return again to analogy of the human and the spider. There exist living things that are to the spider as the spider is to the human. As the human is to the God. It does not go on forever though, The smallest thing that can be considered life is at most one more iteration of as the human unto the god. Now consider that all large life is made up of a community of this smallest life. I understand that this is a challenging concept, not least because the smallest life cannot be directly seen, not even by the Eagle god. This arises due the subtle natures of light which we have not yet covered. Suffice to say that it is impossible for light to form a clear image of objects below a certain size.
Reproduction
Earlier I stated that smallest life has only a single parent. To elaborate, once a smallest life grows large enough it is capable of splitting in half, or sometimes quarters. It is in this way that a new plant or animal grows with each smallest life containing a full copy of the instructions of life. Now you may be wondering how reproduction with two parents takes place. Well, the male and female each have highly specialized forms of smallest life for the job. The male provides a copy of its life instructions, which the female combines at random with its own before beginning the process of growing and splitting. Thus each animal and plant begins as a singular smallest life and grows from there.
Passing of Traits
Knowing all this, you may wonder why offspring are not always a clear combination of their parents. Sometimes this is because of their life circumstance; one who is naturally tall may still end up short if they eat poorly as a child. But often, this is because traits do not mix as easily as honey and water. A dominant trait may suppress a weaker one, but the weak trait is still there, waiting for the right random combination to reveal itself in future generations. For instance, we know of a weak trait which makes one likely to get weakening sickness of the blood, but almost immune to a deadly sickness of the lungs. Thus when the sickness of the lungs is running wild, many of those with the stronger trait will die. Those few who would normally be unlucky enough to have the weak trait will survive, and their children will be more likely to have the weak trait .

Ciber said:
Liberty, you have swayed me.
[X] [Factotum] Select some few of those who the eunuch claims are meant to serve, mark them, and have the eunuch teach them to live in that way
It is a betrayal of our purpose to willfully advise that our beloved lady turn aside a potential tool. And for such petty reasons as "morality". The eunuch can have no children, no family, no dynasty to distract from their duty.
Will there be consequences for this decision?
Yes,
But such is the case for all things in life.

[X] [Mendicant] Turn down the deal
An offer made & a balance owed?
Not this time. Not this road.

[X] [Huckster] Host as huge a celebration as possible, try to arrange for the seduction of every person on the pack train, bring these strangers into the people
This could go the best for ye'.
Yet be prepared for treachery.
A counter play. A thoughtful riot.
A Huckster who don' wanna die yet.
Plant your spirits in the groun'.
And should they flee?..
...Pull them down.

Ciber said:
The Birds & the Mortals
Code of Life
Children are similar to their parents. Not just among the Peoples, but among all life great and small, plant or animal. Some rare plants and the very smallest animals have only one parent, but the majority have two. I tell you now that these similarities are not merely skin deep. In fact, all living things possess a set of instructions that dictate their growth. To clarify, these instructions do not, and cannot, dictate the precise position of every hair upon the body, or every minor vessel of blood within. Instead, they contain the patterns from which such features are derived. For instance in almost all animals the color of hair / fur is determined by balance of only two substances.
Smallest Life
Return again to analogy of the human and the spider. There exist living things that are to the spider as the spider is to the human. As the human is to the God. It does not go on forever though, The smallest thing that can be considered life is at most one more iteration of as the human unto the god. Now consider that all large life is made up of a community of this smallest life. I understand that this is a challenging concept, not least because the smallest life cannot be directly seen, not even by the Eagle god. This arises due the subtle natures of light which we have not yet covered. Suffice to say that it is impossible for light to form a clear image of objects below a certain size.
Reproduction
Earlier I stated that smallest life has only a single parent. To elaborate, once a smallest life grows large enough it is capable of splitting in half, or sometimes quarters. It is in this way that a new plant or animal grows with each smallest life containing a full copy of the instructions of life. Now you may be wondering how reproduction with two parents takes place. Well, the male and female each have highly specialized forms of smallest life for the job. The male provides a copy of its life instructions, which the female combines at random with its own before beginning the process of growing and splitting. Thus each animal and plant begins as a singular smallest life and grows from there.

Arcus said:
I believe the other voices have spoken before of germs, or as they are also known, microbes, and explained that is what causes disease.

What they may not have mentioned before is this; that the human body has an army of defenders, and when microbes invade the body through wounds or one of the body's openings, such as the mouth, nose, etc, these defenders will rally to fight off the foreign invasion and eliminate these microbes before they can cause undue harm, much like the Nine Nations would raise its warriors to fight off the attacks of a foreign tribe.

Now consider; suppose if you took some chariots to raid some far off tribe. Suppose this tribe had never seen chariots or horses before. Their warriors would be confused and perhaps frightened by an unfamiliar sight, and they would not know how best to fight. But suppose you stopped raiding when the harvest season came, and only resumed the raids come the next season. By this time, the tribe would be aware of the danger of chariots, and know of some ways to counter and fight them. Assuming you had not wounded them greviously, they would be prepared, when your warriors came again, and would mount a much more effective defence this time around.

It is the same with the defenders of the body and microbes. When strange new microbes invade the body to wreak harm, the defenders must first learn how to fight this new enemy. Once it has done so, this knowledge is stored for future attacks, and the body now knows how to produce the weapons and warriors it needs to fight these microbes should they invade again.

As an aside, this is why children sicken more easily than adults; their body's defences are inexperienced, and many diseases are unfamiliar to them, so they cannot fight off attacks as effectively.

Now consider that a completely unfamiliar disease, caused by microbes the body has never dealt with before, suddenly appears. If the attack is small and weak enough, even though the attackers are unfamiliar the defenders will be able to fend them off, and from thei attack it will learn how to fight them best in future.

But faced with a new and extremely lethal type of microbe, like the ones that caused the devastating plagues I mentioned? There was no chance to learn how to fight off these new enemied; the strange microbes perplexed and overwhelmed defences that did not know how to combat them. And there were many different types of microbes that the natives' bodies were unfamiliar with, so even fairly harmless sicknesses turned highly lethal when faced with unprepared defences.

There is a way to prepare the body against unfamiliar invasions of microbes; you must introduce a weakened version of the microbe you wish to protect against into the blood vessels, for that is where the vast majority of the body's defenders reside. The defenders should be able to deal with these microbes since they have been largely neutered already, but they will still learn and remember. So if there are any future incursions of that type of microbe, it will be fought off and destroyed without much difficulty. We call this technique vaccination.

That said, I must stress that the implementation of vaccination is quite complex, and likely far beyond your people at this time. For now, I will provide practical advice. If a plague appears and is killing a large number of its victims, the sufferers should be quarantined, and if they succumb you will likely want to burn their corpses, as extreme heat destroys microbes reliably.

Furthermore, as microbes can only enter the body through orifices or wounds that break the skin, covering up these will help to reduce the spread of infection. Minimize contact with the bodily fluids of the infected. Pus, blood, saliva and sexual fluids can often contain the harmful microbes and any who have contact with the sick should avoid getting these fluids in their mouth, eyes, nose or wounds, lest they invite the disease into their body as well. Sexual contact should be avoided. Sharing of food should be avoided if it would lead to the sharing of saliva. Healers should wear protective clothing such as face masks, gloves and robes while they tend to the sick, and either wash this clothing thoroughly with soap or dispose of it by burning afterwards. Tools used in surgery should be treated with heat to thoroughly sterilize them after use.

That said, these measures should normally not be needed for dealing with common illnesses, since the body already knows how to fight off most of these.

Arcus said:
The cutting off of balls is a rather barbaric thing, but I can provide some context. One; it is done to prevent these officials from having children. With no legacy, the idea is that they will be less inclined to seize power from the ruler, as even if they did they would not have anyone to pass that inherited power down to. The effectiveness of this in practice is arguable, though.

Another reason it is done is when the king does not trust uncastrated men with access to his person or his consorts. These kings fear the possibility of being cuckolded, to the point that they will not even let another man near their consorts unless he has been neutered first. Obviously, this is only necessary for mortal rulers who are worried about maintaining their bloodline.

Finally, it is sometimes used as a punishment for crimes committed, but that is usually not the case with those who are made into trusted servants.

In conclusion, the practice is quite pointless for you to import, if you ask me.

That said, the rest of the knowledge he offers should be sound. Let him have his pick of a small number of youths from those who are 'meant to serve', as he puts it. Let him teach them what he knows of numbers and administration and of being a servant, and then I am sure you can find some use for his students.

[X] [Factotum] Select some few of those who the eunuch claims are meant to serve, and have the eunuch teach them what he knows.

Rotekian said:
Gears
I have seen mention of gears (or wheel teeth) but not it would appear a discussion as to the size of those wheels. For it is possible to build a smaller wheel with the same size notches (or teeth) as a larger wheel allowing the two to interact. This will result in fewer teeth for the smaller wheel and the smaller wheel will turn faster than the larger wheel. A gear that is half the size takes two full revolutions to turn the larger wheel and as the total amount of effort is the same, to rotate the smaller wheel is half as difficult. If care is taken to allow the gear to turn only one way, this principle can be used to lift heavy weights.

Eunuchs
On the subject of eunuchs acting on the behalf of rulers more interested in making merry. They do not have a great reputation in song and story, oft described as the evil vizier and true power behind the throne. This has both utility and danger, for while it is true that the blame for undesirable decisions can be passed off to such people it is also true that such advisers have a tendency to try to control the flow of information to those 'born to rule'. In taking control of who is heard they can helpfully filter out unnecessary things that would only serve to waste time, but also choose to filter out those things they merely think would waste the ruler's time. If they have no faith in the ruler to take - in their view - the correct decision, then they do not have a great desire to enable the ruler to take that decision. It is far easier for them to take over if the ruler is focused on some pursuit unrelated to wielding power and thus they have every incentive to encourage the rulers to focus on making merry.

In this, you are perhaps better protected than most, in that you can ensure their oaths are to serve you directly rather than some abstract entity such as a line of mortals who they may in time come to oppose individually in the name of future generations.

1337Procrast said:
Hello Undying One you may call me UMP.

I don't have much to say but can you please tell me what you know of magic?

[X] [Cacophony] BungieONI

Star said:
When merchant goes and trades with someone he doesn't show of how much he has. You ask for a price and if you are interested you pay for it.

Him asking to see our hoard is suspicious as hell. He doesn't need to know ins and outs of our valut. That isn't trade, that is looking around.

Star said:
We will be able to create our own weapons.

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 31, 2019 at 9:25 AM, finished with 45 posts and 14 votes.

5 people have voted
[X] [Factotum] Write in: Use him as your first table-ruler and select people who love numbers and are suitable for service as lesser table-rulers, but no cutting off their balls is needed, as not all customs of cities are wise, some details are idiotic. Also, there is no reason why women couldn't be table-rulers, as no cutting off balls is truly needed, and minds of women are not worse than these of men.
4 people have voted
[X] [Huckster] Tour for spells, gold for goods, anything held for anything wanted, really.
4 people have voted
[X] [Mendicant] Call for tribute of lesser giant bond slaves, grain, and all manner of beasts; teach agriculture and pastoralism to the lesser giants for as long as their bonds last, send them back to their tribe with the seeds and small herds; guide from a great distance.
3 people have voted
[X] [Cacophony] liberty90
2 people have voted
[X] Cacophony CraftingDragon
- CraftingDragon
- Star
3 people have voted
[X] [Factotum] Select some few of those who the eunuch claims are meant to serve, mark them, and have the eunuch teach them to live in that way
- Demonic Spoon
- Star
- Ciber
1 people have voted
[X] [Factotum] Select some few of those who the eunuch claims are meant to serve, and have the eunuch teach them what he knows.
- Arcus
1 people have voted
[X] [Factotum] Whatever, just don't cut off anybody's balls.
- eternal-potato
1 people have voted
[X] [Factotum] Allow the eunuch to teach the teach the 'born-to-rule' youth, singer or no
- BungieONI
2 people have voted
[X] [Huckster] Take it all, deal with objections as they occur
- Demonic Spoon
- BungieONI
2 people have voted
[X] [Huckster] Host as huge a celebration as possible, try to arrange for the seduction of every person on the pack train, bring these strangers into the people
- Ciber
- eternal-potato
1 people have voted
[x] [Huckster] Write in: Show enough to get interest and trade some, but don't show all and trade with patience
- Star
3 people have voted
[x] [Mendicant] Send for the Galugr tribe and settle them within the lands of the Nine Nations
1 people have voted
[x] [Mendicant] Send for the Galugr tribe and settle them within the lands of the Nine Nations
[x] [Huckster] Write in: Show enough to get interest and trade some, but don't show all and trade with patience
- CraftingDragon
1 people have voted
[X] [Mendicant] Turn down the deal
- Ciber
3 people have voted
[X] [Cacophony] BungieONI
2 people have voted
[X] [Cacophony] Kiba
- devilgirl666
- Kiba
1 people have voted
[X] [Cacophony] Demonic Spoon
- Demonic Spoon

liberty90 · Apr 1, 2019

Any idea how to properly explain chukudu - Chukudu - Wikipedia - next turn? And what else we should try to mention?

1337Procrast · Apr 1, 2019

liberty90 said:
Any idea how to properly explain chukudu - Chukudu - Wikipedia - next turn? And what else we should try to mention?

How about iron?

Get ahead of the tin shortage

liberty90 · Apr 1, 2019

1337Procrast said:
How about iron?

Get ahead of the tin shortage

In my loooong post last turn I not only tried to persuade her about evil benefits of imperialism, but I also tried to explain primitive iron smelting. We shall see whether this explanation was good enough.

CraftingDragon · Apr 1, 2019

liberty90 said:
In my loooong post last turn I not only tried to persuade her about evil benefits of imperialism, but I also tried to explain primitive iron smelting. We shall see whether this explanation was good enough.

Let us see. It might need m8re explaining. Depends on how they do nowdays. They should know basic smithing fron. Before as they have bronze.

One rhing that could be explained better is the crop rotation. She asked about more general rules before. And clower could be made more interesting as fall year if we exlain that animals can pasture there. You could probably also have grass or something on fall year maybe.

Ditches beside the road might hwlp with the roads, but she might have a good enough result already.

Explaining difference on climate and weather and then asking about the climate could help on getting to know what we have to work with.

If Bianca gets her fabric production forward I was planning on trying to explain making a gambeson, maybe some other things as well as maybe making of a spinning wheel as it would be faster than what they now use.

Food and storing it is important i think because it will give us possibility of population growth and resistance against bad years. Maybe some agricultural tools could pe taught (not modern but medieval). Trading could also help with getting food on a bad year. The storing is something i plan to look into but if someone have time to check on tools..

liberty90 · Apr 1, 2019

CraftingDragon said:
Explaining difference on climate and weather and then asking about the climate could help on getting to know what we have to work with.

Winters are cold, much more people die during winters, "my" chimneys are useful. Temperate, I think.

CraftingDragon said:
And clower could be made more interesting as fall year if we exlain that animals can pasture there. You could probably also have grass

This was, in fact, explained. And I would have doubts about nitrogen-fixing properties of grass, so. Better to explain how turnips look.

CraftingDragon said:
Maybe some agricultural tools could pe taught (not modern but medieval). Trading could also help with getting food on a bad year.

If you can explain heavy ploughs properly, this would be great, alas, simple (but for now costly) iron/bronze blade and parts needed.

CraftingDragon · Apr 1, 2019

Winters are cold, much more people die during winters, "my" chimneys are useful. Temperate, I think.

Ten improving on a warming system by building a house with one short end of thick layer of brick/ or with a natural mountainside and having the fireplace with chimney there could be suggested to better store the warmth from the fire there (The later was used in Viking longhouses and building stone and brick walls like this when tecnology was available)

If you can explain heavy ploughs properly, this would be great, alas, simple (but for now costly) iron/bronze blade and parts needed.

There have been wooden ploughs as well you can find if you google it. I can try to explain those too... If i have time... I do not know what they use now

Ciber · Apr 1, 2019

So my understanding is that there is currently significant friction between the tribes. Even warfare at times. Who would support the creation of some sort of official yearly celebration where neighboring villages meet up to compete in various sports and challenges as a stand-in for actual warfare? There are nine tribes, with 350 avg 500 person villages between them. During the spring Bianca is of course to busy fertilizing the fields, summer is the time for war, and winter is no time to celebrate. So obviously some sort of harvest festival. Maybe a sort of tournament, where Bianca puts forth some of her collected tribute and perhaps a boon distributed among the best among all the tribes.

I think something like this could help with social cohesion, while binding the tribes more closely to Bianca's will.

liberty90 · Apr 2, 2019

Ciber said:
So my understanding is that there is currently significant friction between the tribes. Even warfare at times.

Internal warfare and raids are outlawed. Theft of cattle happens, mainly.

Star · Apr 2, 2019

I think i know a way for Bianca to ascend. She needs to capture wast amount of souls (nine tribes) and make her own godly domain as goddess of death.

liberty90 · Apr 2, 2019

Ciber said:
I think something like this could help with social cohesion,

On the contrary, something like this can support their identities and create even more violence.

Do you know what happens in much more advanced civs when people with different identities compete at sports?

Nika riots - Wikipedia

Ciber said:
villages meet up to compete

Christ, no, no, no and noope.

If you must, mix people from different villages and tribes in 3-4 competing groups.

Mix randomly. Not always the same tribes into the same groups, unless you want to fracture identities this way.

Star said:
I think i know a way for Bianca to ascend. She needs to capture wast amount of souls (nine tribes) and make her own godly domain as goddess of death.

She knows what she needs: she needs to capture a god. I see no indication that it's at all possible to "capture a soul" (instead of persuading a soul to haunt somewhere, leave or, rarely, to do something productive but only for a short while).

Let's carefully experiment (creation of the next Great Haunted Forest is nowhere near careful) and ask about magic if we want to be able to advise about magic. The same concerns economy, as QM pointed out to me.

LoserThree · Apr 2, 2019

liberty90 said:
Any idea how to properly explain chukudu - Chukudu - Wikipedia - next turn? And what else we should try to mention?

This is a very interesting invention. But keep in mind that inventions like this don't arise from a vacuum. Some, like the fresno scraper in the last game, are dependent on some material being plentiful like cheap sheet steel. Others, like the pony express in the last game, are doable but don't compete well with alternatives.

I'm not saying that y'all shouldn't suggest this or that thing.

I'm just saying you'll do better when you consider the production process from soil to scrap, what specific problem is being solved, and make some decent guesses about what the people are currently using to solve that problem.

liberty90 · Apr 2, 2019

A lathe is a type of machine used to shape things. A lathe works by turning an object on an axis and applying a tool to shape it. Most lathes turn the workpiece on a horizontal axis; the potter's wheel uses a vertical axis. There are various types of lathe machine but horizontal lathes can be used widely to shape wood.

Reciprocating motion is a repetitive up-and-down or back-and-forth movement of something.

Back-and-forth like a saw.

Crank is a part of an axle bent out at right angles, for converting circular motion to reciprocal motion. Circular motion, like a waterwheel. This is how you can have a waterwheel powering a saw. Connect wooden board to a bent out axle.

Windmills and wind power. The blades or sails of the windmill are turned by the wind, though obviously only when there is strong enough wind. The majority of windmills have four sails. Gears, cogs and axles transport power. In a windmill used for making flour, this turns the grinding stones. As the stones turn, they crush the wheat (or other grain) between them.

The first practical windmills had sails that rotated in a horizontal plane, around a vertical axis.

Windmills can be applied in regions where there is too little water for waterwheels, where freezing of rivers in winter is too problematic, or where wind power is more practical from some other reason.

A windpump is a type of windmill which is used for pumping water.

And finally, a great secret that is, I'm sure, known nowhere in your world...

The black powder...

The mixture of charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter produces an explosive black powder... "Explosive" means that many things around are destroyed with great force when "explosive" is exposed to fire and violently "explodes". For example, "explosion" of large amount of black powder can destroy a stone wall, or kill people, or be used in mining.

Possibility of easy destruction of walls may be very important during war against walled enemy, but easy fragmentation of stones and ore can be also great in mining, digging and some construction.

The ratio for that black powder is 75% saltpeter, 15% charcoal and 10% sulfur.

There are a few methods of obtaining and extracting saltpeter.
Mix manure with wood ashes, common earth and organic materials such as straw to give porosity to a compost pile.
The heap should be under cover from the rain, kept moist with urine, turned often to accelerate the decomposition, then finally leached with water after approximately one year, to remove the soluble calcium nitrate (something like colourless salt) which can be converted to saltpeter by filtering through the potash.

And what is potash? The name derives from pot ash, which refers to plant ashes soaked in water in a pot, the primary means of manufacturing potash.

Sulfur, on the other hand, may be known to you as "brimstone".

When I say "75%" I mean "when something is composed from 100 parts, 75 of these".

Black powder is so powerful and surprising against walls, that only you and perhaps a few from the most loyal singers should know all details, at least for now.

@Ciber we often disagree but you are much better with tech than I could ever be. Look at this draft and say what is decent and what you would prefer changed or removed.

Also, I have no f****g idea how to explain mouldboard plough properly, even with heavy citations from the wiki (I often cite wiki, in fact, with some additions: I mainly try to simplify and define words). And better agricultural tools are needed. Soo, heelp, please, anybody.

Ciber · Apr 2, 2019

First, they already know about lathing, though their conception of it is likely far different than your own. My biggest issue would be that you are too flighty. You flutter from topic to topic without spending enough time on any single one to really teach anything. Back to lathes, why are you even mentioning them without giving something to use them for? You gotta elaborate, and if you can't elaborate, then research. Consider the lathe. What are you trying to say here? You did not tell me how to make a lathe, just defined a word that covers half the machines in existence.
How do I "Bend" an axle without breaking the wood? You have told what to call a mechanism for converting rotary to reciprocating motion, but not in any way described how one might be made. If I gave you a pile of logs and metal, would you be able to show me this "Crank"?
Perhaps you meant to describe a smaller wheel fixed to the axle of my waterwheel, where this small wheel has single peg sticking out of its face near the edge. And upon said peg rests one end of a lever, and as the wheel rotates, the peg changes in height. Alternately lifting and dropping the lever. Thus creating a reciprocating motion.
How does one make gears? Wooden peg or metal? What are sails? Why is building one of these things worth the effort? My people are perfectly capable of grinding their grain as it is.
For gunpowder, you are missing some vital info. How can I convince someone to work with this stuff after the first couple idiots die? How can anyone be made to mine, tis a nasty job. How would one even use it to mine, a pile of up up against the stone barely does anything! Perhaps drilling holes... And how are we to set it off without someone commiting suicide. Perhaps the secret of fuses might be needed as well.
Remember, try to tell a Story with your post. Otherwise future readers will just skip over it and not understand the context of the story posts. Not to mention poor loserThree who has to think up intelegent responses that boil down to "I tried this and did not have enough information and it ended terribly"

liberty90 · Apr 3, 2019

Ciber said:
Perhaps you meant to describe a smaller wheel fixed to the axle of my waterwheel, where this small wheel has single peg sticking out of its face near the edge. And upon said peg rests one end of a lever, and as the wheel rotates, the peg changes in height. Alternately lifting and dropping the lever. Thus creating a reciprocating motion.

...this is great. Thank you ^.^

Ciber said:
How can anyone be made to mine, tis a nasty job.

For full-time mining during preindustrial times maybe you need slaves or people without any other way to live, but it should be much easier to persuade people to mine for a few weeks or so, and then return to their usual job. And this is only one of many ways that could be, probably, imagined.

CraftingDragon · Apr 3, 2019

I would also like to comment on your draft post black cat. The windmill too would need some elaborstion. Saying sails without elaboration is bad as they are quite different from sails (how much different depends on their sail type ofc) in addition there is no explanation on how to turn the stone. You also did not mention thar there need to be a mecanism to uncople the system or stop the mill from turning. (otherwise you will have problems) all these is okay to not mention if they would already have a water mill, but on this tech level i seriously doubt it. They probably maximally use hand driven stones on top of each other. Like this:

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On the other hand they seem to eat quite much bread so they might have something better than that. (in europe people ate their grain. Mainly as porrige (especially in the lower classes) till the midlle or late middle ages when milling got easier and the main thing to eat changed to bread. I howewer don't know what part of milling got better at that point but I would assume the non muscle driven ones were getting invented)

I would maybe not start with black powder yet as many of the actual uses need iron (i know not all) and it is dangerous to start playing with it as they don't have that advansed mixing and measuring gears (they might have some counter weight scales at most and no volume measuring gear, at most this cup can take 2 of that cups volume).
One should rather think on what have a big tecnological impact at this stage than jump so far ahead that surrounding tec is not good enough to support it. From this water/windmill would be a good examåle when ellaborated properly

liberty90 · Apr 3, 2019

CraftingDragon said:
in addition there is no explanation on how to turn the stone. You also did not mention thar there need to be a mecanism to uncople the system or stop the mill from turning. (otherwise you will have problems) all these is okay to not mention if they would already have a water mill, but on this tech level i seriously doubt it.

Many good points, but you also need to remember context. I explained water mills, rather badly and without many details, already.

And this was her answer:
"Rivers and streams are already diverted by channel to fields and gates are needed so that this or that field gets water at this or that time. But this would require some further diversion, I think, so that the water would fall some way. Or, more likely, this wheel should be built by rapids, where the water already falls far and fast. And if I understand you, then the axle of the wheel on which the water falls should also turn a wheel with teeth, which by teeth should turn another wheel, which will grind grain. I can, I think, foresee how that might work. I do not see how to make it to work bellows, but perhaps someone else will."

I should provide better descriptions in the future, indeed, but she is far from idiot and entirely capable of asking about details.

Edit:

Mouldboard plough. The plough has wheels on the front, so that it could easily be taken from field to field. The major change for the better lies in the way the plough cuts. On the frame ahead of the share is a bronze or iron knife, placed vertically to cut the sod and to make it easier for the share to enter the thick soil. Behind the share is a curved, wing-like board, sitting diagonally to the frame, to lift the cut sod and throw it clear to the right, like a wave breaking. This is the mouldboard, and it permit land to be ploughed at its wettest. As each furrow is ploughed, the plough team can make a turn at the end of the field, and then return to make a furrow parallel with the first, going in the opposite direction. The result is a series of ridges and furrows, with the highest point of the ridges at the centre of the field, running like a kind of spine down the centre of the ploughed area. This allows the water in the field to drain off to the sides.

James Burke, 1978, Connections, page 63

Summon @Ciber
Summon @CraftingDragon
Decent enough explanation of the proper heavy plough?

Edit2: she knows primitive wooden plough, these were mentioned at least a few times.

LoserThree · Apr 5, 2019

Code:

Despite what I said on the Twenty-Eighth,
it looks like I'm not getting an update in
during this particular calendar week.

At this time, Tuesday the Ninth is the
next day on which an update might
realistically occur.

Thank you for your continued support.

Ciber · Apr 6, 2019

My offer still stands.

Demonic Spoon · Apr 6, 2019

Ciber said:
My offer still stands.

Which offer?

EmptyHusk · Apr 11, 2019

Hello everybody, I plan to join after the next chapter. However, I have a problem. I remember Belca saying that some warriors used leather shields, but I can't remember if she ever mentioned the use of hardened leather. Somebody can clarify that for me?

liberty90 · Apr 11, 2019

"Warriors desire armor of bronze, but it is not available to all. So they make do with hides and leathers, sometimes boiled, and wood that is carved in thin strips and then set together with pastes." End quote.

LoserThree · Apr 11, 2019

Code:

'More update? :)' requested
3,560 words

For scale, I've just started on replying
to CraftingDragon. I'd hoped to wrap
things up today, but happenstance has been
working against me.

I might finish tomorrow or Saturday.

Silver719 · Apr 11, 2019

LoserThree said:

Code:

'More update? :)' requested[/color][/center]
[color=#ffff00]
[center]3,560 words

For scale, I've just started on replying
to CraftingDragon. I'd hoped to wrap
things up today, but happenstance has been
working against me.

I might finish tomorrow or Saturday.

Click to shrink...

So what you're saying is that I should have an in-depth discussion about the benefits of a well-rounded diet?

LoserThree · Apr 11, 2019

Silver719 said:
So what you're saying is that I should have an in-depth discussion about the benefits of a well-rounded diet?

You can. But if you want me to get to it you'll also want to get yourself well boosted.

Diet gets into worldbuilding, too. 'Cause, like, I love how the fact that these people eating bread in the bronze age while living where there are harsh winters stood out enough to get noticed. Just think what can be gleaned from a better understanding of local edibles.

Also,

liberty90 said:
James Burke, 1978, Connections, page 63

Damn straight. Now that is a fine choice of source for any uplift/bootstrap/time travel/one-person-industrial-revolution story. And I can't believe it's only coming up now.

At the same time, I can't believe the godsdamned washboard plow didn't come up in the first game. It's such a low hanging fruit.

What Can SV Teach an Evil Sorceress? (abandoned)

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