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The Aldor have always planned to defeat you once the Legion is driven out. Did you want them to lie to you? If you had clarified you meant while the Legion was present they would have said so.
 
Ceslas said:
The Aldor have always planned to defeat you once the Legion is driven out. Did you want them to lie to you? If you had clarified you meant while the Legion was present they would have said so.
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My request was clearly prefaced with a statement that I will be fighting the Legion. There's no reasonable way to interpret their response as "While the Aldor had spurned an alliance they had said they would not interfere with strikes on the Legion"

At no point did they state they would not interfere with my attacks on the Legion.
 
No, you said you would be fighting the Legion regardless. Then you sequed into talking about mutual non-aggression. Any lawyer will tell you that this is a new subject. Again, you phrased it poorly and didn't ask for clarification. And then you burned the bridge by trying to take hostages. This war is on you and you alone.
 
Ceslas said:
Then you sequed into talking about mutual non-aggression.
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I offered non-aggression after they had already refused an alliance against the Legion in the post above it.

My question clearly only constituted an offer of mutual non-aggression at this point. Any agreement of alliance includes in itself mutual non-aggression as a natural part (IE, a part of the agreement that isn't essential, but is presumed unless explicitly excluded). They have refused an alliance, but I could still offer one segment of a wider alliance agreement afterwards.

The fact that I'll be attacking the Legion, regardless of their refusal to ally with me, is clearly an argument for what I offered right after that: non-aggression.

Keep in mind that before this, the Illidari and Shattarah were already in a state of low-level conflict and that Maiev had used Shattarah as a base of operations against Illidan. I've offered to end the conflict and stopped sieges of Draenei settlements after Maiev's defeat. I kept sending offers of cooperation throought and after the minor attempt on the Altar, made no attacks on Shattarah untill well after they had sent a massive attack into Terokkar. They were the ones who truly reignited the conflict among the Legions enemies.

At no point did the Aldor make any comment approaching something that could be interpreted as saying that they would not interfere with Illidari strikes against the Legion.
What they did was use a minor incident (after a period of no incidents, entirely thanks to my loosening of blockades around their enclaves) and retort with a massive assault on my alliance. Between the hostages incidend and their offensive, I tried talking sense into them. Between rounds of fighting, I've tried to start peace talks. There's just no reason to claim the following:
Ceslas said:
This war is on you and you alone.
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Would be something the Illidari would consider to be true when there's no way to end the war with Shattarah but by pursuing it to the end, seeing how they won't accept peace talks.
 
Ceslas said:
When your tone is "bow before me or die" negotiation flies out the window.
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Most of my attempts to negotiate included Malande being sent to carve out a deal without threats. The only one who dished out insults was Illidan in retort to Velen's own. The Draenei never accepted any attempt to establish peace, nor did they make counter-offers.

And at no point did they say they'll allow us to fight the Legion. There was no way to discern that from a blank NO to a proposal to leave each other alone due to me clearly stating an intent to attack the Legion. A common reading of such a response would be the one I took.
 
Negotiations you seemed to forget were made in the wake of a history of conflict with the Aldor. They had no reason to think you had changed or your offers were not traps nor to ask for clarification. You needed to bridge the gap, you failed, and you decided to start the war you claim you didn't want. I'm not discussing this further. History is repeating itself and you need to deal with it.
 
Orwelans III said:
Illidan has weakened the Legion through constant attacks, but he still has to solidify his power base for further battles against Kil'Jaeden and his followers knew what kind of person they signed up to fight under. Shattarah is the side preventing meaningful offensives against the Legion.
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You've successfully attacked the Legion a grand total of 1 times. And that was to clear Shadowmoon Valley so you could fully occupy it yourself, followed by taking control of any remaining groups in the area.

Beyond that, every time you've gone against the Legion has either been your allies performing minor attacks with no follow-up, or failing to put any noticeable dent into their forces. On top of this, you've consistently been pushing methods of trying artificially 'hook' people on the equivalent of magical cocaine so they will willingly serve you, and refusing to take no for an answer when they turn you down, brainwashing people into serving in your forces, deliberately taking control of the majority of Outland's water supply through the Naga, invading Nagrand and burning away anyone who could stop you, and tossing the Fel Horde under Kargath at the Legion and failing.

You've destroyed a single fortress owned by the Legion. The assorted Forge Camps still exist around Outland, the Legion presence around the various Dark Portals are still strong now that they're being reopened, and the Legion is still at mostly full strength.

You're not making constant attacks at the Legion, you're emulating them in trying to conquer Outland.
 
@Ceslas


Btw, I'll edit it once im at a PC cause SV is really weird being edited when I have metro net, but obviously the blockade fleet is leaving once treaty signed. I just sort of thought it was obvious and didn't mention it.
 
So after much thought I am going to be quitting this RP, to be honest it's mainly because it ceased being fun a while ago and simply became a chore. Still I hope everyone has fun with what time remains in this RP.
 
Sinsystems said:
So after much thought I am going to be quitting this RP, to be honest it's mainly because it ceased being fun a while ago and simply became a chore. Still I hope everyone has fun with what time remains in this RP.
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While I myself am still having loads of fun with this, one cannot disagree that the main IC thread has basically devolved into periods of nothingness lasting for 10 days between the end of turn reports and the start of the rush where everyone sends in their Saturday orders. There's very little IC bantz, especially compared to what we had early on.

This is an exceptional GSRPG and it's a shame you'd lose fun in it, but part of the reason could be that your faction reached a happy Game Over for now. You've not only managed to secure an independent Defias Kingdom, but expanded it as well, receiving partial Alliance recognition along the way. You've also set your country on the road towards development and are safe from any obvious external threats.
 
And on that note I'll be taking my leave of this RP as well, mostly for the same reason. I wish the rest of you the best of luck.
 
SalvaW said:
Turn: 17

Gnomes of Gnomeregan​
Name: Gnomeregan
Capital: Gnomeregan-City
Leader: High Tinker Gelbin Mekkartorque
Consort: Data not available
Heir: will be elected if necessary

Military:
Grand Commander: Captain Tread Sparknozzle
Amount: 2/2
Reg.: 0.5
Special: Airpower
Grand Admiral: None
Amount: 0/0
Reg.: 0.5


Special Features:
A combination of clever detectors and robotic protectors ensures that Gnomeregan is relatively safe from Trogg attacks. Also, the new Military district is set near the usual fighting grounds, ensure that the gnomish soldiers defend and train at the same time! Crazy, hm?
TruCo: 5

Diplomacy:
Alliance: Ironforge, The Wildhammer Clan ,The Silver Hand (Scarlet Crusade), Theramore, Alliance Expedition
Allies: Stromgarde,
Cordial: Forsaken of Lordaeron
Friendly: Blood Elves
Distrust: Kaldorei
Enemy: -
Rival: The Steamwheedle Cartel, The Bilgewater Cartel
At War: Scourge, the Legion, Ahn'Qiraji

Actions:
Major:
1.:
Where: Kalimdor, Tanaris, Sandfort to Wheelgear Falls (Ungoro)
Now thet the tunnels are clear, lets start to build a doubl tracked deep tram here so that we can exchange goods and manpower fast and easily between the two settlements.
2.:
Where: Kalimdor, Wheelgear Falls (Ungoro)
We will continue our research of the Pylons. We won't stop until we hit a dead end.
3.:
Where: Eastern Kingdoms, Khaz Modan, Gnomeregan
With our population rising, there is also an increased demand for troops... well, not necessarily, but our allies needs them. Recruit new soldiers and put them trough the same extensive special forces training the other forces went through.
4.:
Secret
Minor Actions:
-
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OOC, not IC.
 
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