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Warhammer Fantasy: Norsca United! (CK2)

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DragonParadox said:
@Massgamer I do not think we are close enough to the High Elves to warrant granting them representation on the Jarlsmeet, nor do I think they would be interested. The offer will likely just piss off the Dwarfs.
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That's fair but I would think that the Dwarfs would be okay with the offer if only because we are such close allies.

However they can simply voice their thoughts at anytime so I'll later my vote to only include the first two things about the Ogres, Grendels, and Halflings.
 
@veekie, @Void Stalker, @HanEmpire, @Khepri14 recommend that you alter your votes regarding the Ogres, Grendels, and Halflings since the fist two deserve the right to vote right now in the Jarlsmeet while the latter should as well once they are settled.

Also been pointed out the High Elves would not care to send a representative and the Dwarfs wouldn't either since despite being great allies to the Empire don't bother sending any voice for them to their Meets.

Also personally think that we shouldn't give any faiths the ability to vote in general but rather simply advise.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] The Ogres and Grendels should be given the right to send someone to represent them at the Jarlsmeet to voice their thoughts and be able to vote on issues
-[X] Once the Halflings are more settled should have the same ability as the Ogres and Grendels to send someone to the Jarlsmeet to be their voice and vote on issues
-[X] The elves and dwarves in our territory, as allies, may send a representative to voice their concerns at the Jarlsmeet if they wish, though they would not get a vote.
-[X] The non-Chaos faiths of Heimgard may likewise, select a representative from their number to voice their concerns and advise the Jarls, though they would not have a vote either.

With some addendums then.
 
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@ancusohm could we explain to Oovuh when we talk to him that the reason we don't want to make him admiral right now is because we want to focus on building up our fleets and ports while also needing to figure out a plan to see how multiple fleets would be run?

After all Heimgard only has experience using ships for raiding not so much other fleet duties so we still need to work things out on how that will work in the long run.
 
I would rather have set territory be the determination of who is sending a voting representative as opposed to race or faith.

Now if we want to establish a territory out of the swamp and then give the Grendels a vote and do the same with the ogres that is fine.

Otherwise for those in established lands of a jar they should be represented by their Karl regardless of race.

Now if we want to establish how new territories will be added to hemigard that is fine. We have Sarland along with the central region to setup as new provinces.
 
Void Stalker said:
I would rather have set territory be the determination of who is sending a voting representative as opposed to race or faith.

Now if we want to establish a territory out of the swamp and then give the Grendels a vote and do the same with the ogres that is fine.

Otherwise for those in established lands of a jar they should be represented by their Karl regardless of race.

Now if we want to establish how new territories will be added to hemigard that is fine. We have Sarland along with the central region to setup as new provinces.
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This is sort of moot. The vast majority of non-humans prefer to live by their own laws.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] The Ogres and Grendels should be given the right to send someone to represent them at the Jarlsmeet to voice their thoughts and be able to vote on issues.
-[X] Once the Halflings are more settled should have the same ability as the Ogres and Grendels to send someone to the Jarlsmeet to be their voice and vote on issues.
-[X] The elves and dwarves in our territory, as allies, may send a representative to voice their concerns at the Jarlsmeet if they wish, though they would not get a vote.
-[X] The non-Chaos faiths of Heimgard may likewise, select a representative from their number to voice their concerns and advise the Jarls, though they would not have a vote either.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] The Ogres and Grendels should be given the right to send someone to represent them at the Jarlsmeet to voice their thoughts and be able to vote on issues.
-[X] Once the Halflings are more settled should have the same ability as the Ogres and Grendels to send someone to the Jarlsmeet to be their voice and vote on issues.
-[X] The elves and dwarves in our territory, as allies, may send a representative to voice their concerns at the Jarlsmeet if they wish, though they would not get a vote.
-[X] The non-Chaos faiths of Heimgard may likewise, select a representative from their number to voice their concerns and advise the Jarls, though they would not have a vote either.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] The Ogres and Grendels should be given the right to send someone to represent them at the Jarlsmeet to voice their thoughts and be able to vote on issues.
-[X] Once the Halflings are more settled should have the same ability as the Ogres and Grendels to send someone to the Jarlsmeet to be their voice and vote on issues.
-[X] The elves and dwarves in our territory, as allies, may send a representative to voice their concerns at the Jarlsmeet if they wish, though they would not get a vote.
-[X] The non-Chaos faiths of Heimgard may likewise, select a representative from their number to voice their concerns and advise the Jarls, though they would not have a vote either.
 
Void Stalker said:
I would rather have set territory be the determination of who is sending a voting representative as opposed to race or faith.

Now if we want to establish a territory out of the swamp and then give the Grendels a vote and do the same with the ogres that is fine.

Otherwise for those in established lands of a jar they should be represented by their Karl regardless of race.

Now if we want to establish how new territories will be added to hemigard that is fine. We have Sarland along with the central region to setup as new provinces.
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Grendels live in their swamp and Bountiful Basket outside any Jarls' control while also being lead by a Matriarch that can lead like a Jarl.

Ogres have their own Towns, in region between Sarland and Jotunheim no one lives in along with their Gnoblars, united under Morgrath who can be their voice in the Jarlsmeet.

The Halflings appear to be setting up in Centraland, due to their Dhar immunity they have nothing to fear about the environment, which is unclaimed by any Jarl and once settled will most likely have an Elder represent them in the Jarlsmeet.

I see nothing that would step on any of the Jarls toes.
 
That should be fine. I just did not want it based solely on race. For example the halflings chose to settle in skaeling territory. They would be in that case represented by the Jarl of skaeling and not have one for the halflings.

Now if we chose to create a new province in territory not part of an existing province that would be fine with me
 
Void Stalker said:
That should be fine. I just did not want it based solely on race. For example the halflings chose to settle in skaeling territory. They would be in that case represented by the Jarl of skaeling and not have one for the halflings.

Now if we chose to create a new province in territory not part of an existing province that would be fine with me
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Hear what you are saying and thankfully shouldn't be any issues.

Hope that by having a possible High Elf and Dwarf representative around we can do more actions working with them.

Dwarfs shouldn't be a problem since we are great friends with them but the High Elves are acting more isolationist lately after the recent war with the Dark Elves.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] Each race and faith of Heimgard, including the ogres, halflings, dwarfs, elves, and grendels gets to select one representative to raise their concerns to the Jarlsmeet. They will not have a vote by default, but their concerns must be heard and accounted for by the Jarls.
 
[X] Grant Gustav's Request
[X] Grant Hilga's Request
[X] Deny Oovuh's Request
[X] Grant Ingemar's Request
[X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
[X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk
-[X] Each race and faith of Heimgard, including the ogres, halflings, dwarfs, elves, and grendels gets to select one representative to raise their concerns to the Jarlsmeet. They will not have a vote by default, but their concerns must be heard and accounted for by the Jarls.
 
I do not think we should be granting faiths representation as there will be more and more of them as time goes by and pretty soon our conclave will be invaded by quarreling priests.
 
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I'm not a fan of diluting our power further by granting more votes to others. True, it might make those races happy, but I don't want to have to juggle the opinions of more people. The ogres and grendels already seem satisfied with their lot, and I don't want the Moot situation replicated in Nosca.
 
What's even the point of granting these races, especially the Dwarves and Elves, a seat in our meeting? Just, why?

Like, the Dwarves and Elves aren't even our citizens. Imagine just how weird it would be if Canadians had a seat in and were allowed to speak at U.S. Congress meetings simply cause they work together a lot, or vice versa, or the same scenario with any two countries. It's insane.

If they have anything they want or any problems they can just tell us through any of the numerous diplomatic channels that are surely already in place, granting them a seat in our highest level of government seems incredibly unnecessary.

The ogre's ... sort of incredibly dumb, having one around would only drag the meeting on and make everything more difficult.

Honestly, for all of our citizens it make's more sense to just have it be a geographic thing, the races are covered under the rule of the area they live in. If they have any special requests or problems they can make them known to their Jarl or to us and it shall be addressed by them/us.

Handing out all these other seats seems like it will create way more problems than it will solve, and I'm not convinced it will solve any problems at all ... or at least solve any problems that could not be more easily solved in a fashion that isn't nearly as much of a pain in the ass for us.
 
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Here's an idea, instead of granting everybody a seat how about we just make it a common practice that in the months leading up to Jarl's meet the Jarl let's the various communities in their region know that there will be a meet soon and if they have anything they want discussed to just let them know. So, you know, instead of having the Dwarves personally there to say whatever they would say, one of us just pulls out a piece of paper with something along the lines of "hey, we want to dig in these areas" or something.

You know, streamline and simplify the thing. It is way easier to have a conversation with under 10 people then with the good dozen or so that will surely be their if we let absolutely everyone speak at this thing.
 
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King Arthur said:
Like, the Dwarves and Elves aren't even our citizens. Imagine just how weird it would be if Canadians had a seat in and were allowed to speak at U.S. Congress meetings simply cause they work together a lot, or vice versa, or the same scenario with any two countries. It's insane.
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Uh, are you reading the same vote?
Only those of them that live in our territory count.
And we have dwarfs living in our land all the time. Elves too.
 
King Arthur said:
Like, the Dwarves and Elves aren't even our citizens. Imagine just how weird it would be if Canadians had a seat in and were allowed to speak at U.S. Congress meetings simply cause they work together a lot, or vice versa, or the same scenario with any two countries. It's insane.
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We are close allies with the Dwarfs who have Holds all throughout Heimgard so anything that involves the country could also affect them so they should have the right to at least talk to the leaders of the country during the Jarlsmeet.

Also we have High Elves set up in Heimgard studying it's nature while also being allies to the High Elves so they should also be allowed to voice their thoughts if they feel they should.

Also keep in mind we are simply giving them the opportunity to attend the Jarlsmeet and talk they don't have to.
King Arthur said:
The ogre's ... sort of incredibly dumb, having one around would only drag the meeting on and make everything more difficult.
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Our Ogres aren't dumb they are actually noted to becoming smarter since they have cut themselves off from the Maw thus their minds are not consumed with nothing but hunger most of the time.
 
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Jarlsmeet 2440 - Part 3
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    • Jarlsmeet 2440 - Part 3

    [X] Grant Gustav's Request
    [X] Grant Hilga's Request
    [X] Deny Oovuh's Request
    [X] Grant Ingemar's Request
    [X] Spend the evening with Oovuh
    [X] Discuss giving the Ogres and Dwarfs of Heimgard some form of representation at the Jarlsmeet - Low Risk


    You grant every request except for Oovuh's. Except for him, they are all quite pleased. Ingemar plans to go on his pilgrimage at the start of the new year.

    That evening, you have dinner with Ooovuh to make up for refusing his request. Unfortunately, Ashi was occupied with leading the raids and was unable to attend. Over dinner, you explain that he simply doesn't have the military experience to command all of Heimgard's ship. He accepts your reasoning, but it irks him a little.

    You and Oovuh discuss many matters: some trivial, others important. Finally, Oovuh asks, "My king, may I speak freely?"

    You blink. "Of course. You need not mince words with me."

    "Alright." He takes a deep breath, looks you in the eye, and ask, "What's your game?"

    "Excuse me?"

    "What's your game? You push for the Ancestors and then you let the other faiths seek support from their Southern cousins. By the Wastes, you let Ingemar go of to lick the Ar-Ulric's boots. It's like you want to split his loyalties." He pauses. "That's it, isn't it? You're going to 'catch' him committing 'treason.'"

    Even with Dringor's lessons, you're not much of a schemer, so you don't understand Oovuh's implication. You try to cover that up by replying, "And why would I do that?"

    Grinning like he's finally solved a puzzle, Oovuh replies, "So you can justly depose him and install someone more tractable. Put one of those Bjornlinger, milk-blooded, merchants on the throne, and they'll make far less trouble than that fanatic."

    "You think I'd do that?"

    He frowns. "Why wouldn't you?"

    The Allfather within you murmurs that Oovuh's scheme is worth considering, but you've taught yourself to ignore his ruthlessness. "I don't start fights with my family while our home burns around us. "

    "I didn't realize Heimgard was on fire."

    "It's not, but it's made of try timber and it boarders the greatest bonfire in the world. " You gesture north. "Chaos is right there, waiting and watching for any weakness. And our nation is new and fragile. If we give It the chance, it will crush everything we've made. I won't risk disaster by deposing a good Jarl just because someone might be better."

    "Ah," Is Oovuh's only reply. You can see the machinery of his mind process this new information.

    You decide to cut off his contemplations. "Oovuh. You're an ambitious man. You wouldn't have gotten where you are now if you weren't, and that's fine. Ambition has its uses, but it must also have its limits. Play your games but do nothing that risks the board itself. Do you want glory, honors, and wealth? Fine. Seek them. But do not advance yourself by dragging another Heimgarder backwards. If we fall to Chaos, all our treasures and all our glory will count for nothing."

    "Ah." Oovuh says again.

    You let him think over your words in silence.

    At last, he asks, "You really believe all that don't you?"

    "Yes."

    "Huh. All this time, I thought it was just a line you told people to make them shut up and obey. But you truly see Chaos as the greatest enemy." He hurries to add, "And It is an enemy, to be sure. Its gifts are poison and its blessings are curses. I've watched my people dance to Chaos's tune, and I have no desire to do so again. But still..." He pauses, gazing off into the middle distance. "I've let myself get caught up in with small matters, like leading glorious but pointless raids and tweaking that Bjorlinger's nose. But I should have been focused on what truly matters: ensuring my people live to even speak of my glory."

    That wasn't quite what you meant, but it's something.

    Oovuh locks eyes with you. "I've acted like a child, playfighting while my father prepares for true battle. Thank you for correcting me. In the future, I shall make sure to remember our true enemy."

    Reward
    Oovuh's ambition directed away from backstabbing other Jarls and towards building up his own people and fighting Chaos

    AN: Behold the results of high rolls and large diplomacy bonuses

    * * * * *

    The next day, you raise the issue of giving the Grendels, Ogres, halflings, even the dwarfs some representation on the council. The motion passes largely unopposed but Oovuh asks if you truly want to give the members of each race a vote or merely a voice.

    AN: The vote on the suboptions was very close, so I'm giving you all a chance to reconsider.

    [] Give the official representative of each of the different races a vote
    [] Give the official representative of each of the different races a voice at Jarlmeets, but deny them the right to vote
    [] Give the official representative of SOME of the different races a vote and other only a voice

    AN: Unless you specifically state otherwise, I'm assuming that no plan involves granting gnoblars the vote

    You spend the rest of the day discussing the details of your plan.

    You may spend the evening with the Jarl of your choice.

    [] Spend the evening with (Write in which one and if you'd like to discuss anything in particular)


    Tomorrow, you will discuss other matters. The Jarls seem to be getting restless. They will discuss one last serious matter before returning to their regular duties
    [] Write in what you'd like to discuss - May vote for options from part 1


    However, this gives you another chance to spend personal time with one of your Jarls after the vote tomorrow

    [] Spend the NEXT evening with (Write in which one and if you'd like to discuss anything in particular)
     
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