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Warcraft: The Rise of the Mag'har

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NotAlwaysFanfic said:
Cataclysm actually. Basically, the idea was that there was only 'one true timeline,' at least in the sense that all major events have to happen, or things go out of whack, badly according to Aman'Thul. Nozdormu was in charge of making sure things didn't go off too much, and even led the effort in killing his Murozond, future Old God slave self. But then the writers got sloppy and had the Aspects loose a good piece of their power with Deathwing's death, meaning that Murozond shouldn't have been powerful enough to cause all the havoc that he did.
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Well, unless he pulled a Kairoz and got a powerup through third party means like Old God juice or something.

But yea, I was mostly thinking about the Garrosh trial where the people of Azeroth had to fight their time displaced alternate selves. Like Thrall fighting Slave!Thrall, or Kalecgos fighting Malygos!Kalec, or Anduin fighting Shinji!Anduin.
 
NotAlwaysFanfic said:
Cataclysm actually. Basically, the idea was that there was only 'one true timeline,' at least in the sense that all major events have to happen, or things go out of whack, badly according to Aman'Thul. Nozdormu was in charge of making sure things didn't go off too much, and even led the effort in killing his Murozond, future Old God slave self. But then the writers got sloppy and had the Aspects loose a good piece of their power with Deathwing's death, meaning that Murozond shouldn't have been powerful enough to cause all the havoc that he did.
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Murozond wasn't even from that timeline, he mentions that it was fucking paradise compared to what happened to his.

For all we know, Deathwing survived in that one.
 
To answer what the question about the timeline was likely asking.

So far the assumptions being made and the general explanations Torroar has given show that all things not altered by our collective interference are going to likely play out according to the original Warcraft timeline's dictates.
 
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Necron_Lord said:
Murozond wasn't even from that timeline, he mentions that it was fucking paradise compared to what happened to his.

For all we know, Deathwing survived in that one.
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From my understanding, Murozond was trying to bring about the 'End Time' seen in Cataclysm because it was so much better than what was destined to happen. Basically he felt helping the Old Gods escape was better than whatever Azeroth's actual end was. See Nozdormu's whole 'the cycle is complete,' speech.
 
I bet you Murozond was trying to retcon the WoW universe because it's lore became just That bad and he was trying to spare us from the ending.
 
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NotAlwaysFanfic said:
From my understanding, Murozond was trying to bring about the 'End Time' seen in Cataclysm because it was so much better than what was destined to happen. Basically he felt helping the Old Gods escape was better than whatever Azeroth's actual end was. See Nozdormu's whole 'the cycle is complete,' speech.
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That's pretty much the gist of it. He saw his end, and was tricked by the old gods because it broke him.

Even with that knowledge, I almost want to believe him when he calls the End Time a BLESSING compared to what was going to happen without his interference, because of the simple reason that he just might be right.
 
Xkeizer said:
That's pretty much the gist of it. He saw his end, and was tricked by the old gods because it broke him.

Even with that knowledge, I almost want to believe him when he calls the End Time a BLESSING compared to what was going to happen without his interference, because of the simple reason that he just might be right.
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Isn't being turned into a raid boss a pretty huge case of And I Must Scream?
 
The problem with the culling is that you never actually kill innocent civilians - everyone was pretty much shown to be infected. Even in WC3, when you destroy the houses, the people are coming out are already undead or plagued. It's hard to take Uther's or Jaina's side about it being a wrong thing to do when Arthas is pretty much correct regarding the state of the citizens.
 
overmind said:
... I liked the culling of Startholme.
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I've only played the Warcraft version of the mission and while I can understand Arthas's reasoning he didn't really go about it the best way when it came to issuing the orders.
Arthas: Oh no. We're too late. These people have already been infected! They
may look fine now, but it's just a matter of time before they turn into the
undead! This entire city must be purged.

Uther the Lightbringer: How can you even consider that? There's got to be some
other way.

Arthas: Damn it, Uther! As your future king, I order you to purge this city!

Uther the Lightbringer: You are not my king yet, boy! Nor would I obey that
command even if you were!

Arthas: Then I must consider this an act of treason.

Uther the Lightbringer: Treason? Have you lost your mind, Arthas?

Arthas: Have I? Lord Uther, by my right of succession and the sovereignty of
my crown, I hereby relieve you of your command and suspend your paladins from
service.

Jaina: Arthas, you can't just--

Arthas: It's done! Those of you who have the will to save this land, follow
me! The rest of you... get out of my sight!

Uther the Lightbringer: You've just crossed a terrible threshold, Arthas.
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The guy basically told Uther (a paladin) to kill every civilian in the city without even trying another option. Yes it was basically impossible to cure the plague but nobody knew that at the time.
 
It might have been a "they're moving, some of them are still talking, they can be saved" kind of thing.

The plague was still a relatively new thing, many politicians were even doubting it's existence(as demonstrated by the politicians in the background during the cinematic when Medivh bids Terenas to travel to Kalimdor).
 
No, no I absolutely believe that to be true that some could have been saved and that Arthas could have gone about it a better way.

Hell I'm writing a small piece of Warcraft Fiction where Jaina actually decides to use her brain for a bit, realize that there is a group of citizens who could still be saved: the poor.

The homeless and destitute, those who weren't able to make it to the grain thing or weren't able to pay for it, etc. etc. And so instead Uther, Jaina, and Arthas run through the city trying to save those few. The grain had just been distributed, not everyone was going to consume it right off the bat.
 
I mean seriously, the guy even says we just distributed all the grain. Damn son, you know that shit takes time to do stuff to? It's not like everyone walked away from the distribution meeting just stuffing their gobs with raw grain.
 
torroar said:
Hell I'm writing a small piece of Warcraft Fiction where Jaina actually decides to use her brain for a bit, realize that there is a group of citizens who could still be saved: the poor.

The homeless and destitute, those who weren't able to make it to the grain thing or weren't able to pay for it, etc. etc. And so instead Uther, Jaina, and Arthas run through the city trying to save those few. The grain had just been distributed, not everyone was going to consume it right off the bat.
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Entirely plausible even in canon. I'm honestly not sure what Jaina did after she left Arthus at that point.
 
She ran off with Uther, the two of them sat around moping, and then came back after Arthas left and went wah wah we should have stopped this.

Yes. Yes you should have ya silly igits.

I mean, seriously. Set up a quarantine around the city, send runners through the streets to wake everyone up, anyone who did not eat the grain come here, interrogate folks and say did you eat the grain if yes go over there if not etc. etc.

Maybe you could make the excuse that Uther took a huge chunk of the forces with him in refusal, and Jaina took even more.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Entirely plausible even in canon. I'm honestly not sure what Jaina did after she left Arthus at that point.
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Her best friend/peer whose judgement she trusts just committed to a series of extreme actions that she couldn't morally condone and wasn't in the right state of mind(due to the horror she felt at the nature of said orders) to rationally come up with a better plan at that point in time. He also overruled her and it did technically happen in Arthas' realm, not hers.

Frankly, I think it was largely a case of not wanting to be forced to strike down her best friend that made her leave.
 
torroar said:
I mean seriously, the guy even says we just distributed all the grain. Damn son, you know that shit takes time to do stuff to? It's not like everyone walked away from the distribution meeting just stuffing their gobs with raw grain.
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I'm pretty sure it plagues you just through proximity, because "Oh hey, we just distributed it all!" Doesn't coincide with "Stratholme is practically made of undead now" if they were actually required to eat it.

Not saying they couldn't have saved anyone, but it's virtually canon that most of the city was plagued by the time Arthas' group got there. That shit works fast and doesn't seem to really give a fuck about you actually eating it or not.
 
Alectai said:
I'm pretty sure it plagues you just through proximity, because "Oh hey, we just distributed it all!" Doesn't coincide with "Stratholme is practically made of undead now" if they were actually required to eat it.

Not saying they couldn't have saved anyone, but it's virtually canon that most of the city was plagued by the time Arthas' group got there. That shit works fast and doesn't seem to really give a fuck about you actually eating it or not.
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Well it depends on the Plague variant. I think the plagued grain actually did need you to eat it. While the plague cauldrons and stuff spewed plague in the air, so it spread through proximity. I don't think you could actually catch plague just through it being there. It needs an infection variable. Then again, if they handled plagued grain and then didn't wash their hands and did stuff. It could spread pretty fast.

Especially in a place without modern sanitation
 
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Alectai said:
I'm pretty sure it plagues you just through proximity, because "Oh hey, we just distributed it all!" Doesn't coincide with "Stratholme is practically made of undead now" if they were actually required to eat it.

Not saying they couldn't have saved anyone, but it's virtually canon that most of the city was plagued by the time Arthas' group got there. That shit works fast and doesn't seem to really give a fuck about you actually eating it or not.
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Eh, maybe.

I still stand by my statement that not everyone was gonna be at the grain meeting, or get grain, or etc. What about the people in the poor house? Or the richer people who already had plenty of supplies?

Sure, the middle class who got the grain get screwed in this scenario, but I still believe it likely that some people were unplagued when Arthas began his purge.

It's just that during his murder spree the plague began...well, spreading, as people zombified and did plaguey zombie things before Arthas got there, you know?
 
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