Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Eh, the majority of Mag har are still the veterans too old and children too young to join the campaign with the horde.
Quite frankly, the Mag'har would be best served by closing the portals it can and otherwise fortify for a decade or two to improve their infrastructure, increase their population, and give their allies the chance to recover as well. And by that I mean the Draenei and hopefully the Alliance.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Now all we need is the demons, ogres, arakkoa, fel horde, and various other gribblies to agree to that plan.
^ Yeah, I see these things as the primary cause of death for most Mag'har for the next couple of decades.
We actually have been turtling these recent couple of turns though? With this being the 3rd turn where we haven't taken the "Strike the Horde" action(with the martial actions being part shiny and part nipping potential issues in the bud).
The relevant choices have been of Force Projection vs Teching up and Mortal Allies vs Helping the Furies.
We can see this in our Stewardship options, where we chose faster completion of future Stewardship projects(Tools) and an extra Learning slot(Schoolhouse) over bolstering our immediate ability to project force(Roads).
I suspect the more interesting choice we'll be able to make next turn is essentially to what extent we're going to involve ourselves in other factions' politics. Will we prepare against possible Warmaul aggression? Court factions that oppose Cho'War? Double down on Cho'War? Give up on the Warmaul entirely?
Likewise, will we attempt to guide the Dreghood shamanism traditions along? Or will we be content to just send material aid?
As an aside, we're on 1-month turns right now so turtling for two decades would be 240 turns at the current pace. Which means we probably won't see a massive change in our population/food surplus any time soon either(making Magic Food and Fury Blessings somewhat less immediately useful).
The relevant choices have been of Force Projection vs Teching up and Mortal Allies vs Helping the Furies.
We can see this in our Stewardship options, where we chose faster completion of future Stewardship projects(Tools) and an extra Learning slot(Schoolhouse) over bolstering our immediate ability to project force(Roads).
I suspect the more interesting choice we'll be able to make next turn is essentially to what extent we're going to involve ourselves in other factions' politics. Will we prepare against possible Warmaul aggression? Court factions that oppose Cho'War? Double down on Cho'War? Give up on the Warmaul entirely?
Likewise, will we attempt to guide the Dreghood shamanism traditions along? Or will we be content to just send material aid?
As an aside, we're on 1-month turns right now so turtling for two decades would be 240 turns at the current pace. Which means we probably won't see a massive change in our population/food surplus any time soon either(making Magic Food and Fury Blessings somewhat less immediately useful).
I have a feeling that the turns will start covering more time once more of Outland has been secured.
Kinda hard to cover 3-6 months at a time when the Fel Horde can literally build a new army to match our own in that time span. And if that one dies, they can rebuild another in 1-2 turns. We need to neuter their ability to do that, or bottle them up so can't leverage their numbers effectively before we switch to covering larger time-spans.
That's my take on it at least.
Actually they sort of can't.
The Fel Horde is dying. I mean, make no mistake, they are powerful, but the influence of fel magic makes it practically impossible to achieve a good birth rate. This is I suspect part of the reason the Fel Horde retreated into Shadowmoon Valley; while they've a lot of troops they lack the infrastructure needed to actually strike, so that's what they're setting up in Shadowmoon Valley with demon support.
But even then, the Fel Horde can make good on its losses once, or twice, but after that it's spent utterly. And between the Mag'har, the Draenei and the Alliance it can't make it stick. It'd be diplomatically very difficult, but if need be we'd join forces to bottle up Shadowmoon Valley. Even if we're all broken individually and unable to mount a defense or a counter attack against the Burning Legion in Shadowmoon Valley, we'd have the spare troop capacity between us to keep them there.
And they'd have much more difficulty replacing losses than we do over the longer span of time.
Where did you get that impression?
Their sorceries can turn a new born infant into a fully grown (but mentally handicapped) warrior in just a few months. That's fairly sustainable...
Edit: Their cap population is limited by food production, but their ability to hit cap is astounding.
The problem is that eventually you run out of a breeding population. Make no mistake, orcs are rather sturdy, but living in the fel horde is dangerous. Fel orcs are more aggressive, more violent and less concerned about the consequences. And women are also warriors in the Horde and will not accept being forbidden from the battles.
Because of this they can't maintain that recruitment rate, and a few nasty defeats can cause their population to collapse.
That instant maturation magic is useful when you need troops now, but you will pay for it later.
A bigger issue is that Fel magic turns the local area into arid wasteland. Which isn't really suitable for producing food.
Sure, they can hit the population cap quite rapidly, but that population cap is going to shrink at some point.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Can't they just eat lesser demons or something? Or raid places for food?
Why do you think the Horde was so motivated to keep moving forwards in their invasion?
But, if they have Arcane spellcasters, they might be able to summon food...
- Location
- Surabaya, Indonesia
We could potentially do some terraforming by studying the Primals and Breakers. Aren't they locked in a three way war with the Burning Legion over at Blade's Edge Mountains? Just nab some Breakers, use them to cause desolation to the fel infested land, get rid of them, introduce Primals to breathe life and plants to the now desolate land, then get rid of the primals. After that you should have habitable, green land.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
We should do our best to develop golem tech and strengthen our elementals. Turtling w/ walls are all well and good but elemental harmony and autonoma labor are what will allow us to free orcs from labor and direct them toward training with magic and weapons. Furthermore, golem frontlines will counter demonic fodder.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
Not really, unless it makes the matured new soldiers sterile, you can just age up your new troops, and then send the old into battle, that's a better tactic anyways, using the new troops as breeders while they spend some time training, and only letting them go into battle once they have lived for a year at least.
There's really not that much you could learn from studying the Evergrowth. It's not a specific magic like druidic or shamanistic, or a kind of more sciency thing. It's a singular mass of centralized plant intelligence that can inundate things with self-directed chemical and somewhat magical development that is in of itself aware of itself and its purpose. It makes brain parasites for organic stuff to make them slaves while they slowly are consumed for food. At the very, very end of Primal dominance, there will be nothing but the Evergrowth. No meat, no insects, nothing, but the plants, the sun, and the water. And then I doubt the Evergrowth would stop at being in land.
Breakers, on the other hand, I suppose might hold some sort of inherent instinctual knowledge of Earth-related stuff, but it's certainly not what a good shaman would want to learn. Maybe a dark shaman would enjoy learning their Fury-binding glyphs and rituals, but note the vaster majority of the Mag'har.
Breakers, on the other hand, I suppose might hold some sort of inherent instinctual knowledge of Earth-related stuff, but it's certainly not what a good shaman would want to learn. Maybe a dark shaman would enjoy learning their Fury-binding glyphs and rituals, but note the vaster majority of the Mag'har.
Demons are... not really suited to eating. Even for fel tainted beings. Most of them are poisonous to one extent or another. And as noted, raiding places for food is what they did before. Fel magic is absolutely brilliant for creating a plague of planet consuming locusts because of how it makes people stupid, aggressive and hungry.
Not really. Arcane food conjuration is very inefficient. Even an archmage doesn't really break even just conjuring a meal for himself. The conjuring magics in WoW should be taken as an abstraction/emergency use thing.
I mean, you could use ice boxes and volume manipulating magics to carry a lot of supplies long term, but making it from nothing just has no benefit, it costs too much.
That would work if they had an interest in it, or any skills in caring for and raising a child like the way you get as someone matures naturally. Unfortunately, that's not something you get that way. Forcible aging of new troops is great for getting you fodder for war, but if you want troops that are actually useful beyond that you need to take the slower route and take time training them while they're still young.
As I said, it's just not sustainable even with a smart plan. All a smart plan does is give you more time stretching the supply.
Actually, the arcane food thing has been noted at least once in TBC to have been a valued thing amongst varied troops. Some Blood Elf or another, I think they might have turned traitor or something. The commander of the guard of the outpost, I think it's the one in Hellfire, maybe, laments how the guy used to conjure the best banquets for the entire outpost, and it was a real shame they'd never have those anymore.
When the countryside doesn't grow food due to your Fel magics turning into a desolate wasteland your options are kind of limited to raiding others, starving to death or finding an efficient way to summon food.
Being in a magic-saturated place like Outland probably makes it easier to just outright conjure it too...
And bringing the dead back to life like Garrosh just did is also supposed to be this exceptionally rare occasion.
But again, I was talking about the Horde. Not the Mag'har.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We are what the Horde could have become, if it chose to become one nation.
I disagree, just a little. The orcs, pre-Horde, seemed to have no real impetus to unify into one single group, even when Highmaul existed and was consistently enslaving folks and what not. They remained in divided clans, which could have friendships and some cross-cultural and personal stuff, but no true major unity. It took someone like Ner'zhul, Gul'dan, and the lies of the Burning Legion to create the Horde in the first place. It took the Horde existing, and doing what it did, to create the sort of mental possibility for the Mag'har to be a thing as they are in this quest. Too reduced and with the world too changed to go entirely as it had before. You know?
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
I wonder if the shamans can whip up some kinda fertility ritual or something to increase population growth. Sure we won'd get immediate benefits due to orcs needing years to mature and everything but at the very least will keep things positive.
Then again only an idea and since it would take so long to gain benefits I can see IC reasoning to not put resources to idea.
Still concerned about our ability to project force out when our supply of able bodied warriors being limited. Doesn't help we need to be active to make the best chance possible for all non terrible factions in outland.
Then again only an idea and since it would take so long to gain benefits I can see IC reasoning to not put resources to idea.
Still concerned about our ability to project force out when our supply of able bodied warriors being limited. Doesn't help we need to be active to make the best chance possible for all non terrible factions in outland.
I think its less naturally short and more that they are a warrior culture that values death in battle.
So I can see an orc in his/her fifties or sixties and starting to get slow decide that they are going on a one way walk into the wilderness with minimal supplies and never comeback.
Better to die fighting a bear or something similar than to pass away in bed, old and feeble.
Rungni Khazadson
Just another random Runesmith!
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] The Warmaul are fresh. Too fresh. Too untested. And Cho'war is boastful and proud. Let them rush in first, and move in behind them. They want battle? They feel that they have been cooped up too long in their hills? Let them be disabused of that notion