Remove ads

Warcraft: Kingdoms

Reader mode
Qeqre said:
How so?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Besides the reasons stated I feel as if securing the Peaks will help in the final battle more than army training and if we secure the Peaks now the enemy can't launch raids, operations, and other kind of attacks at our allies or our lands in or out the Peaks over the course of the year.

You don't leave an area unsecured or an enemy uncontested no matter how small.
 
Qeqre said:
If we wish to fight, the Iron Dwarves can be forced to an engagement even though they're sheltered behind fortifications in the storm peaks. All we need do is attack some other place that he will be obliged to relieve(i.e. Ulduar).

If he defends one thing, he won't be defending the others as well as he should, if he tries to defend everything, he'll be weak everywhere.

Once we have the Halls of Stone Loken's armies will start getting depleted over time while our allies' will only grow more numerous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Or...we can just kill them all and get this shit done and over with in about a year or so and have more actions available to us by getting this done faster; we take the peaks and the stone halls to strip Loken of his forces, storm his sorry ass next turn and take him down, then mop up whatever is left. Literally done the turn after next. There's no real reason to wait when we can just end it sooner rather than later.
 
Massgamer said:
Besides the reasons stated I feel as if securing the Peaks will help in the final battle more than army training and if we secure the Peaks now the enemy can't launch raids, operations, and other kind of attacks at our allies or our lands in or out the Peaks over the course of the year.


You don't leave an area unsecured or an enemy uncontested no matter how small.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Launching said operations, attacks raids etc is something I'm hoping for since the situation favours the defender so.


It bleeds both sides to do it and the reason Loken was able to afford this is because he could recuperate losses far better than the Earthen due to his controlling the Halls of Stone. The moment we occupy that? Any area left contested is one more area for him to bleed from.


He can raid us, we can raid him. The one holding the halls of stone can recuperate the losses. The one that doesn't? can't(at least for the Earthen/Iron Dwarves).


No need to let Loken go out with a bang, a whimper will do just fine.


EnderofWorlds said:
Or...we can just kill them all and get this shit done and over with in about a year or so and have more actions available to us by getting this done faster; we take the peaks and the stone halls to strip Loken of his forces, storm his sorry ass next turn and take him down, then mop up whatever is left. Literally done the turn after next. There's no real reason to wait when we can just end it sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Kill them all and we'll have to deal with Algalon. We'll have to (pay adventurers to)clear out the rest of Ulduar anyway to make sure the cultists don't unleash Yogg-Saron.

Capturing the Halls of Stone will pretty much cripple the Iron Dwarves' war effort. We take that place and the Earthen will conquer the Stormpeaks on their own given time(or with our help if we're impatient). So why not just train our troops a little so any future surface* combat becomes easier for us?

*Travel through the Waygate, potentially being forced to battle Night Elves and Sand Trolls, getting rid of the Venture Co if they try to set foot by force, Vrykul 2.0 should they turn hostile in addition to the "Siege" section of the Ulduar raid instance.
 
Last edited:
Since we are both dead set in our minds for our own plans I say we move on to a different topic.

Any ideas about getting on the good side of the remaining Vrykuls? When are Druids are finished with their training can they induce fertility so they can raise their numbers up faster?
 
Qeqre said:
Kill them all and we'll have to deal with Algalon. We'll have to (pay adventurers to)clear out the rest of Ulduar anyway to make sure the cultists don't unleash Yogg-Saron.

Capturing the Halls of Stone will pretty much cripple the Iron Dwarves' war effort. We take that place and the Earthen will conquer the Stormpeaks on their own given time(or with our help if we're impatient). So why not just train our troops a little so any future surface* combat becomes easier for us?

*Travel through the Waygate, potentially being forced to battle Night Elves and Sand Trolls, getting rid of the Venture Co if they try to set foot by force, Vrykul 2.0 should they turn hostile in addition to the "Siege" section of the Ulduar raid instance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We kill Loken and then do the Intrigue option of talking down Thorim we can probably get the Titans to call off the failsafe; besides, it's not like we can let Loken stay alive all things considered. And I just feel it's really sketchy and just begging for trouble to leave all those bases alone right as we take the source of Loken's troops. I feel far more comfortable just killing them and taking the halls so that there's absolutely no way of being blind-sided or ambushed. Plus, with all of Loken's forces consolidated in one area, we can keep them trapped there and just pick them apart at our leisure.
 
I hope we can end up capturing Loken rather than killing him so to not only to prevent the whole failsafe but also for getting info off of him and I'm sure the other Titan Watchers want him emprisoned as well.
 
Remove ads
EnderofWorlds said:
We kill Loken and then do the Intrigue option of talking down Thorim we can probably get the Titans to call off the failsafe; besides, it's not like we can let Loken stay alive all things considered. And I just feel it's really sketchy and just begging for trouble to leave all those bases alone right as we take the source of Loken's troops. I feel far more comfortable just killing them and taking the halls so that there's absolutely no way of being blind-sided or ambushed. Plus, with all of Loken's forces consolidated in one area, we can keep them trapped there and just pick them apart at our leisure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Drills. This has been brought up.

We can't keep them trapped in there.

I'd rather have infiltrated Ulthuar to the point of having disabled the failsafe by the time we kill Loken(or, as you say, convince the Titanic Watchers to deactivate it, which would still require us to have reached the Celestial Planetarium).

Since we can't trap them and the only way to replenish his Iron Dwarves is through the Halls of Stone I'd rather keep them divided so we can kill them off at our leisure instead of gathering them all into a concentrated bunch. Why should we cauterize the stump from whence the pig is bleeding out if the goal is to slaughter it after all?

Concentrating them near the one place we need to capture is just begging for pesky last-stands. I'd rather they'd be waging all-out war, throwing themselves against Earthen fortifications only for their supposedly limitless reserves to suddenly run dry.There's really no point to it...
 
Qeqre said:
Drills. This has been brought up.

We can't keep them trapped in there.

I'd rather have infiltrated Ulthuar to the point of having disabled the failsafe by the time we kill Loken(or, as you say, convince the Titanic Watchers to deactivate it, which would still require us to have reached the Celestial Planetarium).

Since we can't trap them and the only way to replenish his Iron Dwarves is through the Halls of Stone I'd rather keep them divided so we can kill them off at our leisure instead of gathering them all into a concentrated bunch. Why should we cauterize the stump from whence the pig is bleeding out if the goal is to slaughter it after all?

Concentrating them near the one place we need to capture is just begging for pesky last-stands. I'd rather they'd be waging all-out war, throwing themselves against Earthen fortifications only for their supposedly limitless reserves to suddenly run dry.There's really no point to it...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Loken loses the Hall of Stones then he has to respond by taking them back, true. However, how he goes about this depends on what he has available, and if he has the Stormpeaks then he can perform a two pronged assault from both the peaks and from the rest of Ulduar or some other strategy that takes advantage of his forces in the peaks alongside the rest of his forces. Without the peaks, all he can do is attack from the seat of his power in Ulduar at the Hall of Stones until he can reclaim them.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
If Loken loses the Hall of Stones then he has to respond by taking them back, true. However, how he goes about this depends on what he has available, and if he has the Stormpeaks then he can perform a two pronged assault from both the peaks and from the rest of Ulduar or some other strategy that takes advantage of his forces in the peaks alongside the rest of his forces. Without the peaks, all he can do is attack from the seat of his power in Ulduar at the Hall of Stones until he can reclaim them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Drills. This has also been addressed.

Either he'll be forced to assault the Halls of Stone from the entrance(forcing him to attack from one direction) or he'll be able to tunnel around us and attack us from all directions anyway so the only thing securing the Stormpeaks will do is ensure that all Iron Dwarves are currently nearby and ready to defend the Halls of Stone instead of trying to lay siege to the Earthen.

Seizing the Storm peaks won't change the number of prongs he can launch his assaults from.

Edit: At most, it will delay them but the Halls of Stone situation will remain the same and if we have the halls of stone it will actually benefit us if he tries to attack us from as many fronts as possible, any Iron Dwarf attacking the Earthen is one that's not reclaiming the Halls of Stone, every day we hold the Halls of stone is one where we get more Earthen allies. He can try to commit to either objective of them to the fullest extent and hope one of them succeeds but not both.

If he commits to the Halls of Stone, he'll have given us the Storm Peaks without a fight, making the action wasted.

If he commits to the Storm Peaks, he's doomed himself because we can grind him down as long as we hold the Halls of Stone.

If we fight from a position where we can be flanked, it will be on the surface, where surface training will help. If we fight from a position where we can't get flanked(inside the Halls of Stone) it won't help Loken if he still has ongoing fights in the Storm Peaks proper.
 
Last edited:
Qeqre said:
Drills. This has also been addressed.

Either he'll be forced to assault the Halls of Stone from the entrance(forcing him to attack from one direction) or he'll be able to tunnel around us and attack us from all directions anyway so the only thing securing the Stormpeaks will do is ensure that all Iron Dwarves are currently nearby and ready to defend the Halls of Stone instead of trying to lay siege to the Earthen.

Seizing the Storm peaks won't change the number of prongs he can launch his assaults from.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then all that matters are the numbers, and taking the peaks takes away from his numbers. In no way does leaving enemy bases with sizable troops preparing for a counterattack alone ever sound like a good idea.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
Then all that matters are the numbers, and taking the peaks takes away from his numbers. In no way does leaving enemy bases with sizable troops preparing for a counterattack alone ever sound like a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They are not preparing for a counterattack.

They are preparing for a siege. And most likely not a siege of Ulthuar.

Those bases are highly fortified locations, the Halls of stone however, basically represent their entire industrial base(technically their source of reproduction but meh). We can either assault them when they're behind fortifications or have them assault us when we're behind fortifications.

Fortifications are force multiplies though. You don't want to attack an enemy that has them but you want the enemy to attack you while you have them.

The Halls of Stone give the holder numbers over time so they're forced to attack us if we get them(and as such, any time spend preparing is time where our numbers swell).
 
Spider people sit around being decadent, suddenly get leader (us) who wants to actually do progressive stuff, bad scourgey things up north, bad decisions made about Saronite, bad rolls, insanity, Old Gods, oh no, fight back, lose a lot, win some, eventually win, beat Scourge before they built up steam, beat up Dreadlords and Burning Legion, make friends with surfacers, make friends with Eastern Kingdom people, get super stressed heart attack kind of, Loken the Old God serving Watcher revealed as evil, other Watchers not evil, make friends (kind of) with them, fighting Loken.
 
The Laurent said:
Hmm, what are the Oracles like? Also, I forgot, how close were we to world domination? We were going for world domination right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oracles are a nice group of Gorlocs that watch over Titan relics.

Also not so much world domination as control over all of Northrend since we don't like leaving and we have enough to handle here anyway.

We are certainly going to be the third superpower in the world that acts as a netural party between the Alliance and Horde.
 
Massgamer said:
Oracles are a nice group of Gorlocs that watch over Titan relics.

Also not so much world domination as control over all of Northrend since we don't like leaving and we have enough to handle here anyway.

We are certainly going to be the third superpower in the world that acts as a netural party between the Alliance and Horde.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not above stomping their shit in if they do something idiotic though(nor do we have an obligation to act as their parents).

Also, if we can prevent the Night Elves from getting wrecked during the third war we'd be the fourth(ranked first hopefully) superpower in the world(assuming the Horde ever reaches prominence again).
 
Qeqre said:
I'm not above stomping their shit in if they do something idiotic though(nor do we have an obligation to act as their parents).

Also, if we can prevent the Night Elves from getting wrecked during the third war we'd be the fourth(ranked first hopefully) superpower in the world(assuming the Horde ever reaches prominence again).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly I'm not sure if the Night Elves even qualify as a world ranking super power on par with the Alliance, Horde and Nerubian Empire. As both immortals and tree hugging hippies they shouldn't actually have the population to qualify as such. Not to mention a good portion of their power comes from being buddy buddy with Cenarius and his offspring. Honestly they always came off to me as being a power on par with just either just one alliance nation or at best a few of them such as Lordaeron and Quel'thalas combined. Certainly a major power in Kalimdor where their only rival civilizations are either sealed away or nomadic but not a superpower on the world stage.
 
Last edited:
GhostKing 666 said:
Honestly I'm not sure if the Night Elves even qualify as a world ranking super power on par with the Alliance, Horde and Nerubian Empire. As both immortals and tree hugging hippies they shouldn't actually have a the population to qualify as such. Not to mention a good portion of their power comes from being buddy buddy with Cenarius and his offspring. Honestly they always came off to me as being a power on par with just either just one alliance nation or at best a few of them such as Lordaeron and Quel'thalas combined. Certainly a major power in Kalimdor where their only rival civilizations are either sealed away or nomadic but not a superpower on the world stage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Speaking of population, any idea how many people there are in the world? Or how big the alliance is? I mean 3.2 million Nerubians doesn't sound like a lot, but for all I know it makes them one of the larger nations out there already?
 
The Laurent said:
Speaking of population, any idea how many people there are in the world? Or how big the alliance is? I mean 3.2 million Nerubians doesn't sound like a lot, but for all I know it makes them one of the larger nations out there already?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I guessing a bit over a million or slightly less.

It's hard to really guess since High Elves breed slowly and I have no idea about the Dwarves and Gnomes.
 
Z000 said:
can any one help
i don't know what i should vote for
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We've got two basic plans, from what I can tell.
One is Qeqre's plan, the other is Massgamer's plan, IIRC.

One focuses on surface training while the other goes for stormpeaks.

The Laurent said:
Speaking of population, any idea how many people there are in the world? Or how big the alliance is? I mean 3.2 million Nerubians doesn't sound like a lot, but for all I know it makes them one of the larger nations out there already?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kinda hard to figure out due to schizo tech.
Don't know how good their agriculture really is.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top