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Visions of Bronze, Visions of Brass: Setting and Mechanics

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Conflict rules are now up! I had to basically rewrite combat from scratch, and I did write Wards and Persuasion from scratch - did you know that until the 20...12ish? Exalted 2.5e Errata, there was no such thing as Defend Other? - but it's done now!

Principles write-up will shortly follow.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
That exoskeleton...
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The exoskeleton escaped. Failure.
linkhyrule5 said:
Principles are now up as well.
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What occurs if you attempt persuasion on someone who have their principles dots maxed out? Say, a sleeper with 6/6 dots filled.

It seems to me that it's somewhat easy to influence people, though. Someone with Persuasion 3 and 4 dots of trainings/talents could conceivably create a 4 dot principle in 4 days by spending a willpower point each day. The first 3 dots wouldn't be too hard, given normal rolls.
 
Shard said:
The exoskeleton escaped. Failure.

What occurs if you attempt persuasion on someone who have their principles dots maxed out? Say, a sleeper with 6/6 dots filled.

It seems to me that it's somewhat easy to influence people, though. Someone with Persuasion 3 and 4 dots of trainings/talents could conceivably create a 4 dot principle in 4 days by spending a willpower point each day. The first 3 dots wouldn't be too hard, given normal rolls.
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The 1-dot Persuasion works fine. After that, you have to persuade them to care less about something else first, which makes sense.

And sure. People are generally not all that inclined to really resist beliefs, up until the two dot level. Thing is, promoting things past that means you have to get past their "Live Freely and Well" Principle - in other words, it's the "actual effort" line, which as we all know from real life is a pain and a half.
 
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I think maybe it should take longer the more dots you're trying create/destroy.

Like 1-dot: 1 Scene
2-Dots: 1 Day
3-Dots (Live freely and well, friends and family level): 1 Week? (Or Dots days)
4-Dots (Motivations): 1 Month? 1 Story?

EDIT: I think the Poise opposed check might be made at Poise+Principle? Or Poise+Willpower if you're actively trying to resist? Or even Poise+Principle+Willpower, if it's something you care about.
 
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Enh. That's already there, though - you can only try once a scene, and it takes (Rating) scenes. If you follow someone around trying to bother them, it might work, but it's also likely to create a Principle of "Make this annoying guy shut up", which they can then channel and get willpower from if you bother them for too long.

It might still be a problem, I'll think about it.
 
Hmm. Well, in the example of the Old Man and the Nephandic imposter, perhaps the Hermetic might have:
Poise 2, Willpower 6, Principle: Old Man is suspect! 1 (Or something like that)

The Old Man initially scored 12 successes (Mathematically improbable, unless he had Mind applied..), and the Hermetic will be rolling 2 dice (Poise) to negate his influce. (Or about 0.8 successes per attempt.)

Adding Willpower (Logical, since driven people should be harder to persuade), and Principle (Logical, since convincing them about things they care about is doubly hard) would make the Hermetic roll 12 dice instead, making it much more likely that he'll stave of the influence of the Old Man. (3.6 Successes per attempt).

Possibly Arete+Mind might be added to it, if you were determined to excise the influence from your mind. Conditioning will probably be applied to rolls to subvert Technocrats, I suppose.

(I think that in the case of mages, it should be a difficult and extended effort to subvert them.)
 
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12 successes is obscene. Twelve successes represents a lot of magic being thrown at the problem. Most people shouldn't be able to resist twelve successes of social without magic, or social is basically useless.

Even the Old Man himself, without magic, is only going to get 5-7 sux on his social rolls. And that's already significantly superhuman.
 
linkhyrule5 said:
For example: let us say that the spirit of the Old Man says three insightful words to a random Hermetic during a particularly eventful night out, and scores twelve successes
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linkhyrule5 said:
12 successes is obscene. Twelve successes represents a lot of magic being thrown at the problem. Most people shouldn't be able to resist twelve successes of social without magic, or social is basically useless.

Even the Old Man himself, without magic, is only going to get 5-7 sux on his social rolls. And that's already significantly superhuman.
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Typo? :p

Well, I think Willpower/Conditioning should be applied to the opposed roll to resist persuasion, in any case.

EDIT: Also, how to effects that affect difficult work here, given that dice are standardized against DC 7? Do they just add/subtract successes?
 
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No, not a typo. If you spend magic on it you should succeed. Otherwise why would you bother using magic?

No, if you resist literally Old Man Senex trying to manipulate you - or John Bastion or any of the other high end Mages - it's because you threw your own reality-warping at the problem.
 
Rolling Poise to resist doesn't really do much to help resist, though, since Poise is usually in the range of 1-3 (0.4-1.2 successes). In the example above, adding Willpower to Hermetic's attempt to resist (2.4 successes, average) would not have stopped at least 3-dot principle from forming anyway.

(Even an additional Arete 2+ Mind 2 [1.6 successes, average] wouldn't have prevented the 3-dot principle from forming.)
 
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Ah, it's not meant to be just Poise - I meant a full on opposed-roll, against some Poise+Talent+Training. I was thinking I might standardize "<Attribute> check" for that language, since the system is designed so that you never roll raw Attributes - skill checks or derived statistics only.
 
Hmm. Looking at the combat rules, I'm not sure there's a lot of point to declaring actions in reverse order. The idea behind it originally is that it gives higher initiative characters more information when planning their own moves... but you can change your action after declaring it with no willpower roll required under these house rules.

Seems needlessly complicated to add another step that won't actually change anything.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Hmm. Looking at the combat rules, I'm not sure there's a lot of point to declaring actions in reverse order. The idea behind it originally is that it gives higher initiative characters more information when planning their own moves... but you can change your action after declaring it with no willpower roll required under these house rules.
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Read it again; it's between the start of round and your turn, not your turn and the end of round.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Hmm. Looking at the combat rules, I'm not sure there's a lot of point to declaring actions in reverse order. The idea behind it originally is that it gives higher initiative characters more information when planning their own moves... but you can change your action after declaring it with no willpower roll required under these house rules.

Seems needlessly complicated to add another step that won't actually change anything.
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Oh is that what the willpower roll is for? What the hell, that was not clear at all. I got rid of it precisely because it didn't seem like it was doing very much. If it's in order to react then that makes sense.

... Mm. Though looking at these rules, it takes three separate passes to resolve a round - roll initiative, declare actions, resolve actions. So... no, we're not rolling initiative every round.

Making edits. Willpower is required to change your action when you wouldn't normally be able to due to initiative order; initiative order is resolved once at beginning of combat and by default never again, barring shenanigans.
 
... wait, no, that's still dumb, Mages bottom out at 5 willpower and go up from there, the chances of failing your willpower roll can go as low as 0.5% and never goes above 1%.

Ugh. Nevermind, then! You resolve and declare in reverse initiative order; you can always take your turn "early" (later in the order) if you want, no willpower roll is necessary. And that's down to one pass, too.
 
So! As you can probably tell by the steadily growing OP and the rather long to-do list, we will not be having an actual session tomorrow.

However, in the interest of not just making you all wait another week for me to finish getting ready, I thought I'd open up the chatroom!

You can find the chat room on rolz. Join the room "Visions of Brass"; you'll want to pick a name, and probably a password. Familiarize yourself with the general commands and the formatting tools in the Formatting Test Thread I've opened in the forum - right panel, the closed-envelope icon. Yes, it's rather limited, I'll be fixing that.

There is also an Omake thread! The Omake thread is optional canon, and is set on a very generic day before game starts, in your Construct's garden. (... ignore the melodrama and the purple sky, your ST likes to think he's clever. :V) The thought is that we might spend this session chatting, getting comfortable in your character's skins and getting to know each other's characters beyond the (admittedly impressively detailed) blurbs and backstories we've written. (Don't worry if you can't make the meeting on short notice, as as noticed, it's optional canon.)

On a very relevant note to the above, what browsers does everyone use, and does anyone already use Greasemonkey?
 
Chrome.

A question: Since Dice rolls are standardized, what do difficulty modifiers do now? Do they add/subtract dice, successes, or?
 
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