UNIVEEEEERSE!!! (-al Gundam idea and discussion thread)

Do we actually know this, or is it fanon/guesswork?

Considering it becomes important during MS Gundam and is eventually responsible for why all the antagonists are coming from Jupiter, no, we actually know they're getting He3 from there during the the early series and gradually switch over to seawater as a source, leading to the Jupiter colonies getting ignored.
 
Considering it becomes important during MS Gundam and is eventually responsible for why all the antagonists are coming from Jupiter, no, we actually know they're getting He3 from there during the the early series and gradually switch over to seawater as a source, leading to the Jupiter colonies getting ignored.
Not asking whether or not we know that He3 is largely acquired from Jupiter, but whether we know if water is the remass used in Gundam NTRs.
 
Minovsky particles. I am not joking. The remass is Minovsky particles, which are also the byproduct of the helium-3 reaction.
Where are you getting that from? I haven't seen that anywhere. I mean, certainly there's nothing stopping one from saying "this thing that we've said isn't very massive is what we're using as remass, we don't care if that makes sense or not", but if they were doing that you'd think it would be stated somewhere.
 
Where are you getting that from? I haven't seen that anywhere. I mean, certainly there's nothing stopping one from saying "this thing that we've said isn't very massive is what we're using as remass, we don't care if that makes sense or not", but if they were doing that you'd think it would be stated somewhere.
The reaction is started by heavy hydrogen. The Minovsky particles keep the reaction going. This is something specific to the laws of physics in gundam, which has the reaction of helium 3 and heavy hydrogen produce stable helium and a positive charge and Minovsky particles , instead of helium and neutrons.
 
The reaction is started by heavy hydrogen. The Minovsky particles keep the reaction going. This is something specific to the laws of physics in gundam, which has the reaction of helium 3 and heavy hydrogen produce stable helium and a positive charge and Minovsky particles , instead of helium and neutrons.
Right, bit that doesn't mean that the M particle is usable as reaction mass; among othe things isn't it supposed to be very low mass? And, like I said, you'd think that if it was the case, given how much Gundam stuff loves to talk about M-physics, they'd mention that this acts as a powerful reaction drive in the process.
 
Right, bit that doesn't mean that the M particle is usable as reaction mass; among othe things isn't it supposed to be very low mass? And, like I said, you'd think that if it was the case, given how much Gundam stuff loves to talk about M-physics, they'd mention that this acts as a powerful reaction drive in the process.
Minovsky particles behave differently from usual low mass particles. They can accept energy from negative and positive charges, and by doing this they gain mass.
Edit: I'm a Chemistry major which makes this sound really stupid in my head. Gah.
 
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Right, bit that doesn't mean that the M particle is usable as reaction mass; among othe things isn't it supposed to be very low mass?
The Minowsky Drive uses M-particle as remass. Also the Minosky Craft System, sort of. Otherwise I guess warship use hydrogen as remass? IIRC it was never stated in UC.
 
Alright, I'm going to lay down what the Terran Republic -the polity I've been using in my IOST'd into SEED snippets- is.

To put it simple, the Terran Republic is a Federal Constitutional AI-Bureaucratic Republic. It rose out of the ashes of what is essentially the Era of War that spanned the late 21st and early 22nd centuries. Think of it as Fallout's Resource Wars, Tom Clancy's EndWar, Outlive's Resource Crisis, and Genocide Man's pre-GENOCIDE Project era world had a baby. The Terran Republic was formed by the will of seven men and women who led what amounts to the forces of sanity in a world where sanity more or less left the building. The families of these seven leaders became essentially what the House of Windsor is today: another countermeasure against insanity.

The Terran Republic's political structure is something of a fusion between the US and Roman republics and British Constitutional Monarchy. The Seven Families have a position similar to the House of Windsor in the British political system. These families -like the House of Windsor- can call the representative bodies of the government to behave, and if they don't then -if the vote is unanimous- the families can dissolve the current representative government, make the current representative government be stripped of their candidacy (and in the worst case scenario, be stripped of their political rights), and oversee the government while emergency elections take place. If the representative government is in deadlock, then they can activate the Dictator clause which selects a random person in one of the families and gives them what is essentially emergency powers for 6 months to 4 years (or the war ends, depending on which happens first).

All citizens don't immediately get political rights, they have to work for it via federal service, ala humanity in the book Starship Troopers, but not as expansive. Military service is the longest duration of any federal service.

To counter ideological insanity, the Republic has an electronic panopticon that oversees everyone. If detected, then -depending on the AI's analysis- either you get incarcerated in a mental hospital and deprogrammed (i.e. 99.95% of the cases) or immediately put to death, your assets ceased, and buried in an unmarked grave.

Genetic and cybernetic augmentation is widely available, within reason. You can't get augs that are only available to the military or intelligence services for one. Doing so would land you in jail with psychiatric rehabilitation.
 
To counter ideological insanity, the Republic has an electronic panopticon that oversees everyone. If detected, then -depending on the AI's analysis- either you get incarcerated in a mental hospital and deprogrammed (i.e. 99.95% of the cases) or immediately put to death, your assets ceased, and buried in an unmarked grave.

They have an omniscient computer that imprisons people with the wrong opinions. Who even decided the initial parameters for this? Because no matter where the input comes from, be it the design of the logic our a straight list, you can expect massive bias in such a socially powerful device.
 
They have an omniscient computer that imprisons people with the wrong opinions. Who even decided the initial parameters for this? Because no matter where the input comes from, be it the design of the logic our a straight list, you can expect massive bias in such a socially powerful device.
The 'wrong opinions' in this case are the sort that created numerous genocides. We're talking things like [insert ethnic group here] Supremacy, Nazism, and everyone's favorites 'what if [insert ethnic group here] is exterminated?' and 'FOR MOTHER NATURE, MANKIND MUST BE THOROUGHLY CULLED/EXTERMINATED!'. Let alone megalomaniacs creating child super soldiers/slaves that are genetically unable to be free/[insert even worse shit here].

This 'Dark Century' of humanity more or less left deep, unyielding scars. Then again when nation-states fell apart as farming binome crashers were rampant and the sickest synthetic plagues mankind has ever devised were unleashed upon the world populations, all the while warlords were creating armies of genetically engineered child super soldiers and cybernetically augmented slave armies like it was going out of style.

When I mean 'the bastard lovechild of Fallout's Resource Wars, Tom Clancy's EndWar, Outlive's Resource Crisis, and the Genocide Man's pre-GENOCIDE Project era Earth*', I really mean it.

EDIT:

* Remember, this is the same Earth that killed off eight billion people before the comic happened due to people with ideas deciding to go through with said ideas.
 
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They have an omniscient computer that imprisons people with the wrong opinions. Who even decided the initial parameters for this? Because no matter where the input comes from, be it the design of the logic our a straight list, you can expect massive bias in such a socially powerful device.

I imagine that "thinking that human freedom is valuable and that the implementation of such a totalitarian system is a crime against humanity" is exactly the kind of opinion that is Wrong and that you are a Bad Person for not seeing how valuable such a system is, and how insane it is to value something like "freedom" over social stability, but it's okay because the Mental Hospital will help you get better.

(IE, that's the point.)
 
I imagine that "thinking that human freedom is valuable and that the implementation of such a totalitarian system is a crime against humanity" is exactly the kind of opinion that is Wrong and that you are a Bad Person for not seeing how valuable such a system is, and how insane it is to value something like "freedom" over social stability, but it's okay because the Mental Hospital will help you get better.

(IE, that's the point.)
Do I have to get Wetapega's rather elegant argument about electronic panopticon being the least morally repugnant option? I'm more than willing to link it here.
 
Without defining what exactly counts as "ideological insanity", that paragraph really was sketchy. Given that the rest of the political structure seemed to be pretty reasonable, the "panopticon" sounded like it really conflicted.

Because again, without defining "ideological insanity" all I know is that there's a computer who can declare people unsound of mind for political thought. And my real world knowledge tends to think that sounds like a dictatorship's behavior rather than a more functional government.

I can understand if this is straight-forward genocide/total enslavement prevention, but I'm not familiar with those source materials so that's not what I had in mind.
 
Do I have to get Wetapega's rather elegant argument about electronic panopticon being the least morally repugnant option? I'm more than willing to link it here.

Wait. I was operating under the assumption that you weren't actively advocating the idea of an AI panopticon with non-existent freedom of speech as a good idea so much as describing a dystopic society ruled by a tyrannical system.
 
Wait. I was operating under the assumption that you weren't actively advocating the idea of an AI panopticon with non-existent freedom of speech as a good idea so much as describing a dystopic society ruled by a tyrannical system.
You asked for it...

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Without defining what exactly counts as "ideological insanity", that paragraph really was sketchy. Given that the rest of the political structure seemed to be pretty reasonable, the "panopticon" sounded like it really conflicted.

Because again, without defining "ideological insanity" all I know is that there's a computer who can declare people unsound of mind for political thought. And my real world knowledge tends to think that sounds like a dictatorship's behavior rather than a more functional government.

I can understand if this is straight-forward genocide/total enslavement prevention, but I'm not familiar with those source materials so that's not what I had in mind.
The thing is, ideals have become memes. The sort of ideals that promote horrible things like xenophobia and bloodshed are the 'ideological insanity' of the past for the Terran Republic. Things like ethnic superiority/nationalism, Nazism, Drakka-ism (became real popular during the Dark Century), and the like killed more people than any war combined.

So, they try to scrub the meme out of one's brain... or put them to the torch. Very binary, but sadly the only options available.
 
Did some typing on that Peggy Sue Amuro concept of mine. How's this so far?

Consciousness returned to Amuro as his eyes slowly cracked open.

It wasn't the spherical walls of a panoramic cockpit that greeted him; more like a crumpled pillow pressed against his face by gravity. Or rather, artificial gravity. Throughout his life, he traversed the Earth Sphere enough to get a feel for the varying amounts of gravity in various locations – and what he felt right now was neither the oppressive pull of Earth, nor felt quite like the Moon. By process of elimination, that meant he was in a colony somewhere.

Brain slowly rebooting, his head turned … and stared stupidly at the amateur electronics gear in front of him.

He couldn't, for the love of his life, figure out what was going on. Did someone pick him up and take him to safety?

That was unlikely. If a Jegan would've grabbed the Nu, he would be in the Ra Cailum's infirmary right now. If it would've been a Geara Doga, he probably would've been killed in his sleep for stopping their efforts. Yet, at least some of them did try to help him…

What else? A civilian vessel wouldn't go anywhere near a pitched battle zone, much less a colony drop. Especially since he clearly remembered the Nu being seared by reentry heat as Char desperately tried to convince him to give up.

Amuro sat right up at that thought. If he was alive, chances were that Char made it too. And if so, might be up to something.

First things first, he had to find out where he was and how to get in contact with Londo Bell. Neo-Zeon was at their breaking point; time was of the essence before they tried to go underground. Last time that happened, nothing good came out of it. But then again, the same was the case with Char too. Amuro told the brass he was too dangerous to be left alone and Bright backed him up on that – but not only they didn't listen, they actually tried to bribe the man! Did they honestly think that someone who spent eleven years to stalk and kill five people and betrayed not one, not two, but three factions he worked for at various points, could be swayed by REAL ESTATE?!

It wasn't mere stupidity. It was incompetence of such an insane degree that Amuro, as much as he hated to admit it, honestly started to have doubts about the Federation as a whole.

Not to a level of actually agreeing with Char, even in hindsight, but he did remember Haman Karn's hateful words recounted to historians by Judau Ashta's friends, decrying the Federation as a herd of fatcats content on having their own fill and damn everything else. He remembered Jerid Messa's words, heard with his own ears: 'we have the power, therefore we have the right'.

And yet he also remembered the Federation Assembly unanimously repealing the 0087 Counter-Terrorism Act that day in Dakar. That right there is what kept Amuro hopeful when the Federation tried to avoid Haman's wrath by giving her Side 3 and leaving what was left of AEUG hanging out to dry. Why he risked his neck by re-enlisting in the military after having stepped on one too many toes through his protesting of the existence of the Titans' Newtype labs and technically having committed treason by joining Karaba – both worthy of being blacklisted and the latter worthy of a court martial.

Lalah was right. He did feel that if he could turn back the clock, there would've been many things he could've done better. Or done at all.

He slung his legs over the edge of the bed and frowned. His body felt… wrong somehow. In fact, the whole world felt wrong. Even his senses were… fogged, if that word could be applied to extrasensory perception. It was most definitely not helped by a bizarre sense of familiarity he felt as he looked across the room. It looked more like a teenager's room than a prison cell, including a slightly torn poster of a Zaku I above a desk. Where in the hell was he?!

Inching slowly to the window, he peeked around the edges of the closed curtains, careful not to touch it in any way a sentry outside could see. They didn't know he was awake yet, which meant he had the element of surprise.

No military base or hospital, just a normal-looking suburban street. That left two options: either he was in civilian hands – which was unlikely –, or in those of a Neo-Zeon group in hiding. And considering that he didn't remember ejecting, that could be trouble: if they managed to get their hands on the Nu and had a cyber-Newtype in their ranks, there could be no end to the carnage they could cause with it. In which case, getting back in touch with Bright in a timely manner just got a whole lot more important.

Amuro was more than a little surprised to find the door unlocked. Were his captors seriously this sloppy or did his luck finally decide to help him out for a change?

Even so, he decided not to risk it and took the stairs behind as quietly as he could, listening to any sound indicative of someone about to jump him. Yet there was none. And as he arrived down to what looked like a dining room, he was starting to get more than a little paranoid. There was just no way someone with a prisoner could be sloppy enough to leave everything unlocked and post no guards whatsoever, no way at all.

'Even if they didn't recognize my face, they pulled me out of an enemy mobile suit. I'm the enemy, they have to know that!'

Yet as he spotted a computer in another room, he recognized the opportunity: no guards means no one to stop him from using it to get his bearings.

'Well. Don't mind if I do…'
 
Abuse of the funny rating
But it still wasn't terribly convincing.
Isn't convincing because of pro-privacy/faith in humanity bias or because it's spread out over five posts?

Anyway, I'll post one or two more snippets with my 'IOST into SEED' idea before shifting towards IBO or something.
 
It's all right, but I'd suggest playing up the feeling that this is all familiar, and shouldn't be, even if Amuro doesn't know why.

After all, it's his room.

I'm actually trying to figure out how he'd realize the truth. If he sees the current date on his father's computer and googling the news only returns news from that time period, he'd easily think his captors are messing with him.

Yet if he were to only realize the truth upon seeing Frau Bow, he's gonna freak out and make her freak out in turn.

Though now that I think about it... she did berate him for not having eaten when she found him in canon. So what if she assumes his behavior is caused by low blood sugar, sits him down and goes to get him food, giving him time to think?
 
Did some typing on that Peggy Sue Amuro concept of mine. How's this so far?
What's the point of the "reboot"? I've never really liked the idea of "Peggy Sue" fics; they're frequently masturbatory exercises in power hording, or writing about vindictive "justice" being done.

The prose is okay but the only thing that actually happens is "Amaro doesn't know what's happening", which isn't super useful as a way of starting a series that's supposed to get people interested.

Isn't convincing because of pro-privacy/faith in humanity bias or because it's spread out over five posts?

It isn't convincing because the arguments are both not very good, and because the arguments are entirely irrelevant to the thing that is being discussed. Even accepting the "privacy will die" argument - and I don't - it's irrelevant to the question of using an algorithm to criminalize private speech and thought as a preventative measure against bad ideologies.
 
Isn't convincing because of pro-privacy/faith in humanity bias or because it's spread out over five posts?

It isn't convincing because it's not a good argument. It's not actually about the system in question as the best possible system as compared to any other possible system. It's about the system in question being inevitable; and that argument is supported only by a handwave about "sensor density" and ignoring the obvious fact that density is irrelevant if the data does not all flow to the same terminus, which it won't. (It already doesn't, and will continue to not do so regardless of what you believe about human nature. If data is power, it is not in the interest of all entities to share.)

EDIT: Deep and thoughtful reply, I see?
 
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It isn't convincing because the arguments are both not very good, and because the arguments are entirely irrelevant to the thing that is being discussed. Even accepting the "privacy will die" argument - and I don't - it's irrelevant to the question of using an algorithm to criminalize private speech and thought as a preventative measure against bad ideologies.
It isn't convincing because it's not a good argument. It's not actually about the system in question as the best possible system as compared to any other possible system. It's about the system in question being inevitable; and that argument is supported only by a handwave about "sensor density" and ignoring the obvious fact that density is irrelevant if the data does not all flow to the same terminus, which it won't. (It already doesn't, and will continue to not do so regardless of what you believe about human nature. If data is power, it is not in the interest of all entities to share.)
Aye, ye, ye...

The crux of Wetapega's argument is that 1) it's inevitable due to technology, 2) technology is evolving at an astonishingly rapid pace, 3) as technology -especially computer- evolves, it shifts the balance of risk, and 4) history is rampant of non-state actors forcing war onto the world even if the state actors don't really want to... and you are more or less giving such actors free reign to do whatever their ideals dictate. Just the evolution of social media has effectively put the final nail on privacy's coffin.

Given that the thread in question started with this video:

Summary: At dConstruct 2014, I spin a tale of the future: not to make a prediction, but to put our current world in perspective. (shamelessly taken from the summary box of said video on YouTube)
 
What's the point of the "reboot"? I've never really liked the idea of "Peggy Sue" fics; they're frequently masturbatory exercises in power hording, or writing about vindictive "justice" being done.

The prose is okay but the only thing that actually happens is "Amaro doesn't know what's happening", which isn't super useful as a way of starting a series that's supposed to get people interested.[/QUOTE]
  1. I tend not to take people who aren't even bothered to spell someone's name right seriously. No offense.
  2. Not everything's going to go Amuro's way. He might have foreknowledge, but he's just one man and said foreknowledge won't stay 100% reliable because his mucking around eventually drives things so far off the rails that he's repeatedly faced with things he didn't see coming. Like the fact that Amuro does not, in fact, have photographic memory and completely forgot about a specific detail within his 13 years' worth of extra memories - a specific detail that ends up costing the Federation over 20% of their ground forces.
  3. The scene I posted above is the story's second scene. The first is Amuro having a Newtype hallucination of Lalah and Chan immediately after his last stunt in the world of the living. Basically, he's dead but his soul can't pass on because he feels that he's not done, yet he can't go back either because even Newtype space magic can't resurrect the dead. However, since a Newtype's power comes from thought and Amuro's mind is no longer restricted by his physical body, his desire to change everything sends his consciousness across time and space to where he can do the most good: September 18, 0079.
 
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