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The Streetwalker's Guide to the Hierarchy

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Rihaku said:
Dorian with pills is >> prior Dorian
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Thing is, that is not really quite true. Our current state is more of a sidegrade than a direct upgrade, as you move from mage guy blasting Contamination to melee bruiser blasting (a bit weaker since we won't be using Icarelian)Contamination. Contamination is still at worst as good as stats, and in many cases still our main weapon, and stats don't impact Contamination that much outside of not dying and being able to tag faster foes.

While we are stronger, it is not a qualitative increase in power since we failed to buff our primary combat tool, but something that doesn't really interact much with it instead. So being physically much stronger doesn't translate to being much stronger overall because of that.
Ultimately I feel like we're just talking in circles because none of us can make guarantees about the details of these characters' powersets
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I mean, it is safe to say that Zenith guys are just dudes. There is somewhat of a slider between their pure Zenith stats and their adventurer skills/being that guy, but they are pretty straightforward in what they offer. The real question is "are they closest we have to auto solving Lieutenant situation"; while I would say that they are obviously most powerful immediate choice due to CL synergy, their power might not translate 1:1 to resolving issue at hand. But then again we can't really say who translates the best(probably Shade I suppose, but I dislike her powers otherwise), so just taking the strongest dudes is the safe bet here.
 
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Actually, what is the inspiration for Zenith bros? I've assumed it was Finn and Jake, but I guess they could also be inspired by He Man and his tiger.
 
Wolfy said:
Actually, what is the inspiration for Zenith bros? I've assumed it was Finn and Jake, but I guess they could also be inspired by He Man and his tiger.
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I'm thinking Asterix and Obelix. The physical attribute powers are similar, it fits with the "old-timey comics" medium/time period as does Bolidian, and the "fell asleep atop the zenith" origin story seems to me very reminiscent of Obelix falling in the super potion cauldron
 
Rihaku said:
Hm... A purely potential-focused Absurdity pick must scale extremely quickly, given it's competitive in value with stuff like Mother Shade and The Last Bolidian, yes? Does Dorian think the Nameless Mask could improve quickly enough (potentially with Hammer assist by merging it with the shards of the Arcanist, etc) to be highly relevant in the ~few days he has before meeting Lieutenant Carrasco again?
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Potentially! If you're willing to sacrifice some of your own mask stock, especially.
 
I am, for the record, against smashing a sentient mask to pieces to conform those pieces into something entirely different. Little too close to murder of a supposed ally for me.
 
GenericName said:
I am, for the record, against smashing a sentient mask to pieces to conform those pieces into something entirely different. Little too close to murder of a supposed ally for me.
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I think we're smashing non-sentient masks and fusing the fragments into the sentient mask to make it stronger if we do what birdsie and rihaku are talking about. The shards of the arcanist would be integrated into the nameless mask for example.
 
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OctarineShrike said:
I think we're smashing non-sentient masks and fusing the fragments into the sentient mask to make it stronger if we do what birdsie and rihaku are talking about. The shards of the arcanist would be integrated into the nameless mask for example.
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Consider me corrected then, assuming the mask keeps its identity in tact I have no issues with this.
 
Zampano said:
I think it is a mistake to treat every blurb option as being equally successful in their primary mode of opposing the Somber Entity. Some tasks are just going to be harder than others. For example, any Absurdity pill character who chose to debate Lieutenant Carrasco would probably lose. My concern is that asking Sophia to decontaminate Musurov is more like picking a (losing) fight with the Somber Entity itself than just needing to defeat the Lieutenant Carrasco avatar.

So, it is worth considering what character has the highest value to the party if Musurov is lost to us. Boldian will act as a meaningful safety net given the thread's decisionmaking performance so far.
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I think if we assume Musurov is lost to us, then Wise King, Sophia or Shade seem like the best options in terms of their ability to smack Dorian and tell him that his idea is dumb as bricks. If we just get more power, we will probably just take correspondingly greater risks to exploit that power, negating the benefit of having more power (in terms of reducing risks).
 
Birdsie said:
Potentially! If you're willing to sacrifice some of your own mask stock, especially.
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I'm down to sac everything, including Crimson Hunter, if the gains are worthwhile enough. Let's finally get some actual use out of the Hammer. Nameless Mask fulfills the role of an Absurdity character to which Hammer fusions can directly apply - and we not only have an extremely high Potential Mask that we aren't using (the Arcanist), we're not even limited to hammering in Masks! We could Hammer pills, the Earphones, the Raiment, the power armor, etc if the projected gains are good enough.

Nameless also fulfills the role of a "wise" character without the agency issues that Wise King or Last Bolidian might impose upon us.

[X] Sophia
[X] The Nameless Mask
[X] Evolve into Crimson Hunter
 
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[X] Sophia
[X] The Nameless Mask
[X] Evolve into Crimson Hunter

I'm happy to bandwagon the Nameless Mask idea, and I've softened on Sophia in the world where Musurov is lost to us.
 
I would much rather use Arcanist to either solve Japhris situation or to Hammer it into Streetwalker to get 50+ Streetwalker Mask. We would just be wasting the best resource we have because we picked potential pick when we need an immediate solution so we would have to compensate.

e: Although now that I think about it, empowering Icarelian and then picking Bolidian is actually a sneaky powerful option. Getting Icarelian to 50+ and then buffing Containment with Bolidian to enhance it on top of that might actually make a serious dent in our Dreamless. Perhaps this can also deal with Fixation?

e2: We are at four way tie hilariously enough. In that case I will break it:

[X] Evolve into Crimson Hunter [2 Import + a day of effortful combat and wildlife hunting]
[X] Basil and Tibert
[X] The Last Bolidian

Bolidian provides second most immediate power, and I really like the potential of Contamination plan outlined in my previous edit. With powerful Mask and his buff, we might be able to fix Japhris' Fixation enough so it is not an issue anymore, and make some real headway into healing Dreamless, and our own combat power should also be elevated to a great degree.
 
Who is to say?

That being said, there are five possible scenarios with Musurov:
  • Veronica gives us Musurov(or someone posing as him) for free as gesture of good faith or perhaps as a ploy
  • Musurov is taken hostage, a gun to his head or bomb implanted within him
  • Musurov was subverted and we need to knock him out
  • Musurov was convinced to join Somber cult(either genuine or a ploy of his)
  • Veronica doesn't have him, he is held somewhere else and we can't really grab him
 
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Discord Info:

Wisdom-wise:

Wise King >>> Mother Shade > Nameless Mask > Sophia > Last Bolidian

Competence (in action/execution):

Wise King > Last Bolidian = Nameless Mask > Mother Shade > Sophia

Wise King is slightly less competent than Batman.

Given that mentals are part of the character's powerset which is capped by Absurdity, it looks like Sophia and Last Bolidian have the most amounts of magical firepower (though specialized in different areas, and Sophia's magic being valued somewhat higher), while Mother Shade is a shade (hah) weaker than Last Bolidian but with stronger mentals, and Wise King a terrifying agency vortex we should definitely avoid.

Last Bolidian is surprisingly not very wise, will probably (if subordinate to Dorian) be an enabler of wacky plans or (if superior to Dorian) propose them himself.

Overall I'm more inclined to support Nameless Mask than before.
 
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[X] Sophia
[X] Mother Shade
[X] Evolve into Crimson Hunter

I'll add in a vote for Mother Shade with that information. She's got the best Wisdom out of the non-agency-warping characters.
 
it's a tie between Mother Shade and Last Bolidian right now. A majority of voters want Crimson Hunter but I'm starting to get concerned about the possibility a days delay is detrimental to Musorov's well being.(EDIT: assuming we need to take the training day immediately)
 
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Looks like we're at a 3 way tie

EDIT: Does anyone wonder if the Nameless Mask has preferences for what to fuse and not to fuse using the hammer?
 
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[X] The Nameless Mask
[X] Sophia

Narrowed it to these.

The Nameless Mask I think is a far more interesting character than Mother Shade and will probably be more helpful too. Someone who dispenses wisdom and guidance, as well as moral lessons is fun. Dorian could use the growth as a person, and this character has more significance to him than most of the others I'd imagine. I'd like to see where Birdsie goes with this one on the whole.

I love Basil & Tibert for the cat being so precious, but they're not really all that fleshed out as a duo so I don't have a super strong inclination towards them. I'd love to see more lore though! I think The Last Bolidian could be a great pick if we get a good version of him, but the risk is present that the interpretation we get is not so favourable. And similarly to the other Icarel option, I find it hard to get a grasp of who he is with the information provided other than not quite Superman.

As for Sophia and The Wise King, I think both are solid options. Sophia doesn't seem quite as larger than life as every other possibility, but she does have some useful abilities and I would think an agreeable personality. The Wise King is fairly mysterious and seems quite powerful, but you already know that either one of these being chosen will have Linneas expositing every drop of info he knows in five seconds flat. Between them, I feel like Sophia is more party member coded, whereas The Wise King (and several of the other options) has more recurring mentor character energy to him. Both are good and I'd be satisfied with them, but I'll add another Sophia vote I think.
 
If we do go with Mask, we should hammer speakers into it immediately so it can directly benefit from info generation ability.
 
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