The Steep Path Ahead [Familiar of Zero AU]
- Thread starter shadenight123
- Start date
- Location
- At home
Please don't start. The last thing we need is a discussion(/argument) about religion derailing this thread.
Dromeosaur
Feathery Raptor of snowy planes and frozen sea
- Location
- The land of Trees and Squirrels
Have to agree, even if temptation is great.
Actually, do priests in FoZ have any sort of divine magic or superpowers?
Actually, do priests in FoZ have any sort of divine magic or superpowers?
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- Location
- Germany
normally the one that takes a more rational look at religion, born from scientific knowledge and a great deal of tolerance that leans towards a great deal of my/your god/gods/'fill whatever you want' may or may not have created the universe, but in the end it does not mean that I'm/you're allowed to kill/harm/discriminate other people for holding other believes
you know, the whole reason why we actually stopped doing things like crusades or burning temple or people or things in general in the name of god (or at least in the name of any god not named R'hllor)
other then that, since saito is japanese, I would go with their outlook on religion, so maybe have some kind of shinto or buddistic influence,
not to my knowledge, as far as I know they have only the standard priest powers, like branding you as a heretic and making you into an outcast of the society
Rear Mirrors
Cynic
- Location
- Seattle, Washington, USA
- Pronouns
- she/her
Honestly I'm surprised Shade didn't make a joke about him having a fetish for the not!incest cousin archetype. I guess Saito thinks Suguha from SAO is worst girl
.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Does seem a little odd, now if the locals were closer to their early modern European influences they would be the ones disturbed not Saito who is japanese. Now if he was Korean I'd understand as apparently traditionally Korean culture frowned on paternal first cousins marrying though they had no issue with maternal first cousins marrying.
Only if you consider Brimiric magic to be divine.
Jerry Finch
Stupid but lucky.
- Location
- Slightly closer than you would be comfortable with
And he would explain this how exactly? He's a highschool student, and from what I recall, kind of a lazy one. He has no working knowledge of how these things actually function or what goes into making them. At best he can bring to bear abstract theory and general knowledge on most topics, which means almost nothing without an understanding on how to build the tools to build the tools to build the tools he'd need to make that stuff applicable. And that's not taking into account things like finding and producing quality materials and knowing the engineering, chemistry, math and physics needed to make sure that stuff even turns on, much less doesn't explode and kill him.
As for the religion stuff, this is the age where people can be literally burned to death for heresy, and while being the Gandalfr might shield him from that kind of response, it would only really succeed in alienating the people around him. Even ignoring how monumental a task it is to change someone's opinion on faith, I can't even begin to imagine the challenge of trying to sell modern religion to someone who can actually point and say "No, my god is real and here's proof." and then light you on fire with actual magic gifted by said god unto the lowly masses. Even moreso when most of his immediate circle of acquaintances are wielding said god's actual piece for piece "holy power".
No, I think he gets way more traction out of just keeping his mouth shut and not stirring the pot. At least not like that.
- Location
- https://discord.gg/z9tBvbh
Chapter Eighty-Two
- Location
- https://discord.gg/z9tBvbh
Chapter Eighty-Two
Louise couldn't look at Tiffania's face. She averted her gaze, keeping only her ears attentive in case the barest of whispers involved with spirit magic began, just so she could strike first. She had been taught since she was young that the Elf was an enemy, a horrible enemy that prevented the Chosen People of the Founder from reaching the Holy Lands, a place of honey and warmth, where every dream could become true.
Hundreds of years of history couldn't be wrong now, could they? Every time a group of Elves crossed the border, children were kidnapped, killed, people were found gorily murdered-there was always something wrong that could be attributed to Elves. They cherished the blood of humans, and there were many pictures in the Founder's Book which showed them sitting upon thrones made of skulls while lapping from fountains of blood.
The macabre imagery had given her nightmares for days, and when that Elf had appeared out of nowhere, it had simply consolidated her belief. That amount of senseless slaughter couldn't have been the product of a creature afraid of the Gods, but only of an emissary of the Devil itself!
And yet, there Tiffania was. She looked like a giant marshmallow made of marshmallows, and seemed to be the picture of innocence and kindness. It didn't help that Saito had to activate his White Knight-mode every time she seemed about to cry. Why did he have to be so gallant all of a sudden? Couldn't he keep being quiet and just keep on being her knight? Her only personal protector?
She was 'sharing' him with too many people, and while the Founder preached sharing, she didn't really think it applied to her own fiancé -and thus, future husb...future hus...- her cheeks were so red they felt on fire.
"My big sister taught me how to read, and sing," Tiffania said in a soft, hesitant voice. This was an improvement over the first few wrangled words that Saito had managed to gently coax out of her. "She's the one who rescued me from-from everything," she added. "I-I don't know what it means to be a Void user, but-but if I can avoid needless bloodshed, then I'll do my hardest."
Louise scoffed, "Yes, of course you will," she added, her voice dripping sarcasm. She bit down on her lower lip. "If-and this is a big if, you are not lying, then what do you think is going to happen now? With three users, the Pope will call for a crusade. He would be remiss not to," she shook her head.
"I will not tell the Pope," Charlotte said softly. "The Cardinal knows of only two, but not of Tiffania," she added. "If I do not tell him, and you do not, then she will be free to do as she pleases." She inclined her head to the side. "I am of the belief her sister took care of enrolling her into the Tristain Academy of Magic trying to hide her from the Cardinal."
"The Cardinal? You're speaking of Mazarin? Cardinal Mazarin?" Louise hazarded.
"Yes," Charlotte said with a small nod. "He was appointed by the Pope to serve as Tristain's regent until the time when the princess would assume the rule, and now that she has he returned to Romalia. He has probably already alerted the Pope about your situation, and knows of mine. Expect to be summoned by His Holiness at any moment."
Louise sighed, "Well, if it became known that an Elf was one of the Founder's chosen-what a joke," she bitterly added. "Still, preparing an army would take time. Even if the Pope knew, he hasn't yet called for a crusade, or for us. Perhaps we will have some breathing room after this. I sure hope we do," she said.
The silence grew awkward after that, even as Saito broke the quiet once more. "Well, it's no use worrying over something that hasn't happened yet, right? We'll think about it when it happens. And it's not like he can force us to do something against our will-"
"Wrong choice of words," Charlotte said softly, wincing in sympathy as Louise punched Saito's shoulder.
"He's the Pope. He doesn't need to use magic, he can simply excommunicate those who don't follow his will," Louise said hotly. "No, if he calls, we'll answer. If he doesn't though, we'll be free to live our lives."
She huffed. "Enough about this," she pushed her hair back with a flippant attitude, "We'll be leaving after escorting her Highness to Versailles and return to Tristain," as soon as she said that, Tiffania raised a hand as if to ask a question, but then quickly dropped it.
"If you need someone to escort you, we'll help," Saito said.
"Saito!" Louise's exclamation was cut short, however, when Saito coughed.
"A faithful nun of Brimir would help an innocent in need without question." He grinned as he quoted word per word, much to Louise's embarrassment. "Wasn't that what you said?"
Louise blushed, and then grabbed her pillow, throwing it straight at Saito's face. As it impacted against the boy, it also bounced off into Charlotte's hands, who took that as the cue to throw it back at Louise.
Grabbing a pillow himself, Saito threw it at Charlotte, who deflected it towards Tiffania before grabbing her own.
Somehow, the fact it all degenerated into a pillow fight by the end of it was not what anyone had planned, or thought would happen.
Yet it was precisely what happened.
When Josette knocked at the door warning that dinner was ready, she stepped inside to a scene out of reality. Feathers were everywhere, pillows were torn, and somewhat Saito was comfortably nestled into Tiffania's bosom while sleeping soundly, a blow having knocked him out, or perhaps he was faking it just so he could keep staying in that position. Louise was within his arms, having been protected from a fall from the bed, and yet had lost consciousness all the same.
Charlotte stood as the sole winner of the 'tournament', twin pillows in hand and an expression of triumph on her face.
"Ha," she said in the end. She dropped the pillows and calmly sat back down at the side of her bed, coughing in her right hand as she looked at Josette. "Josette."
"Sister," Josette said with a giggle. "I'm happy you're having fun, but dinner's here!" she grinned as she brought inside a fuming plate. "There's more where this comes from, so don't hesitate to ask for seconds!" in her other hand a bottle of wine was firmly held, and as the door closed with a kick, it made Saito groan softly.
Josette easily jumped past the mass of bodies on the floor, and handed the food over.
"We're nearly at Versailles anyway," Josette said as she sat down next to her sister. "And once there, it will all go for the best, right?" she filled the spoon with food and began to hover it near Charlotte, who gave her a stare without heat. "Say ah~"
Charlotte took the bite, and Josette smiled brightly. "Here comes the flying ship~"
"Josette-"
"Please?"
Charlotte sighed, and said nothing more.
She owed her sister some form of family, no matter how screwed up it could be.
Louise couldn't look at Tiffania's face. She averted her gaze, keeping only her ears attentive in case the barest of whispers involved with spirit magic began, just so she could strike first. She had been taught since she was young that the Elf was an enemy, a horrible enemy that prevented the Chosen People of the Founder from reaching the Holy Lands, a place of honey and warmth, where every dream could become true.
Hundreds of years of history couldn't be wrong now, could they? Every time a group of Elves crossed the border, children were kidnapped, killed, people were found gorily murdered-there was always something wrong that could be attributed to Elves. They cherished the blood of humans, and there were many pictures in the Founder's Book which showed them sitting upon thrones made of skulls while lapping from fountains of blood.
The macabre imagery had given her nightmares for days, and when that Elf had appeared out of nowhere, it had simply consolidated her belief. That amount of senseless slaughter couldn't have been the product of a creature afraid of the Gods, but only of an emissary of the Devil itself!
And yet, there Tiffania was. She looked like a giant marshmallow made of marshmallows, and seemed to be the picture of innocence and kindness. It didn't help that Saito had to activate his White Knight-mode every time she seemed about to cry. Why did he have to be so gallant all of a sudden? Couldn't he keep being quiet and just keep on being her knight? Her only personal protector?
She was 'sharing' him with too many people, and while the Founder preached sharing, she didn't really think it applied to her own fiancé -and thus, future husb...future hus...- her cheeks were so red they felt on fire.
"My big sister taught me how to read, and sing," Tiffania said in a soft, hesitant voice. This was an improvement over the first few wrangled words that Saito had managed to gently coax out of her. "She's the one who rescued me from-from everything," she added. "I-I don't know what it means to be a Void user, but-but if I can avoid needless bloodshed, then I'll do my hardest."
Louise scoffed, "Yes, of course you will," she added, her voice dripping sarcasm. She bit down on her lower lip. "If-and this is a big if, you are not lying, then what do you think is going to happen now? With three users, the Pope will call for a crusade. He would be remiss not to," she shook her head.
"I will not tell the Pope," Charlotte said softly. "The Cardinal knows of only two, but not of Tiffania," she added. "If I do not tell him, and you do not, then she will be free to do as she pleases." She inclined her head to the side. "I am of the belief her sister took care of enrolling her into the Tristain Academy of Magic trying to hide her from the Cardinal."
"The Cardinal? You're speaking of Mazarin? Cardinal Mazarin?" Louise hazarded.
"Yes," Charlotte said with a small nod. "He was appointed by the Pope to serve as Tristain's regent until the time when the princess would assume the rule, and now that she has he returned to Romalia. He has probably already alerted the Pope about your situation, and knows of mine. Expect to be summoned by His Holiness at any moment."
Louise sighed, "Well, if it became known that an Elf was one of the Founder's chosen-what a joke," she bitterly added. "Still, preparing an army would take time. Even if the Pope knew, he hasn't yet called for a crusade, or for us. Perhaps we will have some breathing room after this. I sure hope we do," she said.
The silence grew awkward after that, even as Saito broke the quiet once more. "Well, it's no use worrying over something that hasn't happened yet, right? We'll think about it when it happens. And it's not like he can force us to do something against our will-"
"Wrong choice of words," Charlotte said softly, wincing in sympathy as Louise punched Saito's shoulder.
"He's the Pope. He doesn't need to use magic, he can simply excommunicate those who don't follow his will," Louise said hotly. "No, if he calls, we'll answer. If he doesn't though, we'll be free to live our lives."
She huffed. "Enough about this," she pushed her hair back with a flippant attitude, "We'll be leaving after escorting her Highness to Versailles and return to Tristain," as soon as she said that, Tiffania raised a hand as if to ask a question, but then quickly dropped it.
"If you need someone to escort you, we'll help," Saito said.
"Saito!" Louise's exclamation was cut short, however, when Saito coughed.
"A faithful nun of Brimir would help an innocent in need without question." He grinned as he quoted word per word, much to Louise's embarrassment. "Wasn't that what you said?"
Louise blushed, and then grabbed her pillow, throwing it straight at Saito's face. As it impacted against the boy, it also bounced off into Charlotte's hands, who took that as the cue to throw it back at Louise.
Grabbing a pillow himself, Saito threw it at Charlotte, who deflected it towards Tiffania before grabbing her own.
Somehow, the fact it all degenerated into a pillow fight by the end of it was not what anyone had planned, or thought would happen.
Yet it was precisely what happened.
When Josette knocked at the door warning that dinner was ready, she stepped inside to a scene out of reality. Feathers were everywhere, pillows were torn, and somewhat Saito was comfortably nestled into Tiffania's bosom while sleeping soundly, a blow having knocked him out, or perhaps he was faking it just so he could keep staying in that position. Louise was within his arms, having been protected from a fall from the bed, and yet had lost consciousness all the same.
Charlotte stood as the sole winner of the 'tournament', twin pillows in hand and an expression of triumph on her face.
"Ha," she said in the end. She dropped the pillows and calmly sat back down at the side of her bed, coughing in her right hand as she looked at Josette. "Josette."
"Sister," Josette said with a giggle. "I'm happy you're having fun, but dinner's here!" she grinned as she brought inside a fuming plate. "There's more where this comes from, so don't hesitate to ask for seconds!" in her other hand a bottle of wine was firmly held, and as the door closed with a kick, it made Saito groan softly.
Josette easily jumped past the mass of bodies on the floor, and handed the food over.
"We're nearly at Versailles anyway," Josette said as she sat down next to her sister. "And once there, it will all go for the best, right?" she filled the spoon with food and began to hover it near Charlotte, who gave her a stare without heat. "Say ah~"
Charlotte took the bite, and Josette smiled brightly. "Here comes the flying ship~"
"Josette-"
"Please?"
Charlotte sighed, and said nothing more.
She owed her sister some form of family, no matter how screwed up it could be.
Clearly, the answer to one of two twins going nuts every generation is to have both of them go nuts in different but somewhat more benevolent ways.
Two things: One, I'm fairly sure that Mazarin was a Tristainian Cardinal, that is, had his official post there, even when not serving as regent. Secondly, this:
Excommunicating high nobility, much less downright royalty, without a very good and very apparent reason is not an easy thing, specially since a lot of the church's own hierarchy might end being more loyal to said royalty than the pope. That's severely compounded if they come in public as void mages (and even ridiculously more if the pope recognizes them as such without immediately calling for them to burnt to death for it), as then it might be seen as the Pope trying to attack what are perceived as the heirs of the founder, specially if they apparently act pious.
In practice, what that means is that, well, he does it without fabricating one hell of an excuse? Welcome to the world of anti-popes, schisms, statute in restraint of appeals and more. Not to mention kicking a wasp nest in terms of politicking and backstabbing within the church's own hierarchy because let's be honest, at the time period ZnT draws from in terms of the structure of its church? The high clergy is possibly worse than the high nobility...
It's not that simple, although it's perfectly understandable that Louise thinks in these terms given how she was raised and educated.
Excommunicating high nobility, much less downright royalty, without a very good and very apparent reason is not an easy thing, specially since a lot of the church's own hierarchy might end being more loyal to said royalty than the pope. That's severely compounded if they come in public as void mages (and even ridiculously more if the pope recognizes them as such without immediately calling for them to burnt to death for it), as then it might be seen as the Pope trying to attack what are perceived as the heirs of the founder, specially if they apparently act pious.
In practice, what that means is that, well, he does it without fabricating one hell of an excuse? Welcome to the world of anti-popes, schisms, statute in restraint of appeals and more. Not to mention kicking a wasp nest in terms of politicking and backstabbing within the church's own hierarchy because let's be honest, at the time period ZnT draws from in terms of the structure of its church? The high clergy is possibly worse than the high nobility...
She didn't answer the call to a crusade? She didn't step into her destined role? She turned her back on her heritage and Brimir's teachings? I can think of several excuses.
And if they appear to act reasonably pious that won't be enough to really convince enough people that it won't cause a fuckload of problems for him as well, specially if they start a "counter propaganda campaign" so to speak. Mind you, it might still cause civil wars and revolts depending on how it goes, but it certainly won't be the end of the world for them (well, not until the windstone catastrophe
), nor it will be a walk in the park for the Pope.If nothing else do keep in mind the following: The high nobility and high clergy tend to be a cynical lot and will likely thrown their lot depending on their interests and how the public perceive the "sides". The local low clergy can be co-opted, specially if it ends looking like a dispute in doctrine (like the pope trying to attack the apparently good and pious queen/high noble scion who's also a saint figure). The general population is likely to just follow the local nobles, specially if the local clergy isn't trying to incite them to revolt or anything of the sort.
As I said, he can excommunicate them, sure. It's not a good idea unless he likes schisms though.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
If your royalty or nobility that's excommunicated that means your nobles, your solders and subjects are relieved of any legal or moral obligation towards you, in fact as a excommunicate its their moral duty to remove you from power and replace you with a proper Ruler of the faith.
Also popes could declare excommunicates deposed which is what almost happened to several kings historically including most famously king john and did happen to several Holy Roman Emperors who at least in the early to high middle ages were some of the most powerful rulers in the entire world at the time and certainly the most powerful rulers in Europe and the middle east at the time.
Also popes could declare excommunicates deposed which is what almost happened to several kings historically including most famously king john and did happen to several Holy Roman Emperors who at least in the early to high middle ages were some of the most powerful rulers in the entire world at the time and certainly the most powerful rulers in Europe and the middle east at the time.
And there were also several kings who got excommunicated and kept ruling. And the multiple cases of anti-popes. And the whole case of the creation of the Anglican Church.
Essentially: Politics. The pope is not all powerful or immune to it. A major player, yes, sure, but not able to simply ignore it to do whatever he wants.
GiftOfLove
From the Heart
If three of four Holy Void users turn on the Pope, it's the Pope who is wrong given that they worship Brimir.
After all, it's impossible for Brimir to have gifted the Void to heretics, right?
BadRoad
a thousand miles
Except one of them is a half-Elf. That could lead to some serious theological debate.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
One thing though is in this setting at least is that the Pope while someone who will do anything to save the population from the windstone crisis including having his own mother killed for stealing one of the holy rings is a master politician in the books was a few steps ahead of everyone.
He's also publicly famed for his care for orphans and improving the welfare of the commoners which apparently really is true and not done out of simple manipulation(though it won't stop him from lets say having a entire village wiped out for the greater good). He's also literally a saint apparently, as one of his titles one of his titles is St. Aegis the 32nd with another title being the Shield of the Founder.
He's also publicly famed for his care for orphans and improving the welfare of the commoners which apparently really is true and not done out of simple manipulation(though it won't stop him from lets say having a entire village wiped out for the greater good). He's also literally a saint apparently, as one of his titles one of his titles is St. Aegis the 32nd with another title being the Shield of the Founder.
Keep in mind the church ruled Halk for 6k.And for 6k they keep trying and having crusades. And there was any major split like the Reformation, East/West split to curtail the church power. In Halk the church is a lot more powerful than Medieval World Catholic Church. So no the pope has a lot of power . Also after finding about the incoming Windstone Apocalypse or suffer any more attacks from the elves, Louise would be on board about the crusade.
And yet in canon Gallian troops didn't had much qualms in fighting against a coalition that included Romalian forces. Not to mention the bullshit reconquista pulled with its theology.