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The Silmarillion Quest

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EVA-Saiyajin said:
And they can't have any children? Do you mean the big name royals of the line of Finwe, or the Noldor period? To either answer: why?
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I think it's because the Noldor don't have children when at war. Not sure what the reason for that is though (be it cultural or biological.)
Telamon said:
The dispossessed, the exiles, the Kinslayers -- these are the Feanorians, the Noldor who followed Feanor in his pride and in his sin. Mightiest of the warriors of the elves, they have struggled in war against Morgoth for longer than any now living. The Feanorians are proud and strong, devoted friends and fast foes. Their army is the largest single force of Noldor in Middle-Earth, for none draw breath among the Feanorians who will not die for the Silmarils. There are no children among their number, for the Noldor do not birth at war -- and they have been at war for centuries.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
oh, so it's the other way around. I thought it meant that the Noldor would/could increase their leader cap.

And they can't have any children? Do you mean the big name royals of the line of Finwe, or the Noldor period? To either answer: why?

And that sounds like a catch 22 for the Feanorians.


Can't get new leaders so long as all of the (current) House is alive, can't get new ones period. That's...odd, and somewhat contradictory/conflicting?
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The Noldor do not marry or have children while they are at war. Neither do humans, really, except we don't spend centuries on campaign.

And yes, if all of Feanor's sons are dead, the drive and force behind the Feanorians as an independent group of Noldor will fall apart, and they'll either join Fingolfin's people or Finarfin's.

Chimeraguard said:
I think it's because the Noldor don't have children when at war. Not sure what the reason for that is though (be it cultural or biological.)
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It's because elves are deeply emotional and mentally connected with one another. As it's explained, a separation during wartime could be grievously mentally damaging not just for a couple, but for their children as well, who spend 30-40 years growing up and need their parents with them during that time.

[...] It would seem to any of the Eldar a grievous thing if a wedded pair were sundered during the bearing of a child, or while the first years of its childhood lasted. For which reason the Eldar would beget children only in days of happiness and peace if they could.'
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There is no thing upon the world which might face the Balrogs at war
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Laughs in Glorfindel and Ecthelion.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Wow, Turgon is a clear superior to Fingon despite being eight centuries younger.
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Note that Fingon has advantages of his own, like "not spending all of their time in Gondolin" and "best friends with Maedhros" and "can do rediculous hero exploits, like busting maedhros out of angband." It's not immediately obvious how that's modeled from their character sheets, but considering how we see forced actions with Belen I'm confident it would be.
Telamon said:
The Noldor do not marry or have children while they are at war. Neither do humans, really, except we don't spend centuries on campaign.

And yes, if all of Feanor's sons are dead, the drive and force behind the Feanorians as an independent group of Noldor will fall apart, and they'll either join Fingolfin's people or Finarfin's.



It's because elves are deeply emotional and mentally connected with one another. As it's explained, a separation during wartime could be grievously mentally damaging not just for a couple, but for their children as well, who spend 30-40 years growing up and need their parents with them during that time.
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Would it be possible for the Feanorians to rally under Tyelperinquar, or is it specifically sons of feanor only? He's kind of young but that's still centuries.


Also, doesn't the [No children in war -> No new leaders] only apply on the front lines, or at least only outside the hidden cities? Even leaving aside the peredhel who definitionally have an eleven parent willing to have kids in wartime, wouldn't the nolofinweans get Maeglin at some point?
 
QTesseract said:
Laughs in Glorfindel and Ecthelion.

Note that Fingon has advantages of his own, like "not spending all of their time in Gondolin" and "best friends with Maedhros" and "can do rediculous hero exploits, like busting maedhros out of angband."

Would it be possible for the Feanorians to rally under Tyelperinquar, or is it specifically sons of feanor only? He's kind of young but that's still centuries.


Also, doesn't the [No children in war -> No new leaders] only apply on the front lines, or at least only outside the hidden cities? Even leaving aside the peredhel who definitionally have an eleven parent willing to have kids in wartime, wouldn't the nolofinweans get Maeglin at some point?
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Celebrimbor would probably be the leader of the Feanorians if the sons of Feanor all died, yes.

And it wasn't a hard rule, more just a cultural taboo. The parents of the peredhil broke it freely, but that's mainly because having a child with a human is already a terrible idea in so, so many ways. I would imagine that the Sindar and the Gondolindrim did not keep to it, especially during the Siege of Angband when there was little war to speak of.

But the Feanorians, who had no city or home, who marched as an army and never disbanded, who were at war from the moment they landed in Middle-Earth? What time could be spared for children, or love, or marriage?

The Enemy lives, and he has the Silmarils still. All else pales before this.

(The House of Fingolfin and the Finarfians are slightly less intense, but not really. Why do you think Turgon, Fingon, Finrod, or any of the sons of Feanor never had children or married? Andreth of the House of Beor loved Angrod son of Finarfin, but he could not bear to bring a child into a world where the Enemy lived.)
 
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QTesseract said:
Laughs in Glorfindel and Ecthelion.

Note that Fingon has advantages of his own, like "not spending all of their time in Gondolin" and "best friends with Maedhros" and "can do rediculous hero exploits, like busting maedhros out of angband." It's not immediately obvious how that's modeled from their character sheets, but considering how we see forced actions with Belen I'm confident it would be.
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Forgive my ignorance, but given he was chained to a mountain outside it seems like the eagle did most of the heavy lifting. Literally. Or I'm misremembering.
 
I forget, was Orodreth an Arafinwean? I vaguely remember him becoming regent of Nargothrond after the whole Luthien debacle, but I don't remember whose son he was.
 
Telamon said:
Celebrimbor would probably be the leader of the Feanorians if the sons of Feanor all died, yes.

And it wasn't a hard rule, more just a cultural taboo. The parents of the peredhil broke it freely, but that's mainly because having a child with a human is already a terrible idea in so, so many ways. I would imagine that the Sindar and the Gondolindrim did not keep to it, especially during the Siege of Angband when there was little war to speak of.

But the Feanorians, who had no city or home, who marched as an army and never disbanded, who were at war from the moment they landed in Middle-Earth? What time could be spared for children, or love, or marriage?

The Enemy lives, and he has the Silmarils still. All else pales before this.
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Depending on which timelines are canon, possibly Tyelperinquar was born then, since it's not clear whether he wasn't born or was very young at the darkening. There's no mention of him at thee oath, either saying it or being conspicuous in his absence, and no other mention of him is made even when it probably would have influenced things like Curifinwe Atarinke's fighting on the front lines. I'm inclined to say that him being born in valinor does make more sense, because while him not affecting things is somewhat weird him being born during the siege would be, as you say, even weirder.

Also, I notice the Sindar don't have leader sheets for Mablung and Beleg, and that Eol isn't a smith leader - the last seems like t could well be intentional since he's a very autonomous vassal, but the first two are listed as leaders elsewhere in the sheet. Would it be helpful to you for us to offer character sheets in your style for you to take / edit / cannibalize or not as you need, or would that just slow things down?
Lykantos said:
I forget, was Orodreth an Arafinwean? I vaguely remember him becoming regent of Nargothrond after the whole Luthien debacle, but I don't remember whose son he was.
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He's an Arafinwean / Finarfian.
 
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If I didn't know Morgoth was ultimately the embodiment of jealousy and greed and spite, and thus not prone to the smartest decisions, I'd wonder what he was thinking he was getting pouring his power in marring Arda seeing as the whole "cannot permanently die as part of me is all of Arda" thing doesn't really matter given the other Maiar can't permanently die either.

Is his (and later Sauron's, in a different way) form of immortality different?
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
If I didn't know Morgoth was ultimately the embodiment of jealousy and greed and spite, and thus not prone to the smartest decisions, I'd wonder what he was thinking he was getting pouring his power in marring Arda seeing as the whole "cannot permanently die as part of me is all of Arda" thing doesn't really matter given the other Maiar can't permanently die either.

Is his (and later Sauron's, in a different way) form of immortality different?
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The Ainur can be disembodied. Their shells can be destroyed and their spirits left without a home. It takes energy and effort to reform, and each time you will be less than you were, until at last you can no longer do even this, and wander the world shapeless and formless and voiceless until the end of days.

This was the eventual fate of Sauron -- after being destroyed in the downfall of Numenor and the War of the Last Alliance, he could no longer shapeshift or even manifest as much more than a scary spirit. He wanted the Ring because he'd already stored a significant portion of himself in it, and with that power would be equal to what he was. When the Ring was destroyed, that was essentially his backup/reservoir being blown up. While the Ring existed, he could never be wholly unbodied, there would always be something to reform from.

Melkor, in pouring himself into the Earth, has basically made himself invincible. Even if his body is slain a thousand times, he will eventually reform, because he is everywhere and in everything. He will never become as Sauron will, a voiceless and shapeless thing doomed to wander the wind for all time.
 
Telamon said:
This was the eventual fate of Sauron -- after being destroyed in the downfall of Numenor and the War of the Last Alliance, he could no longer shapeshift or even manifest as much more than a scary spirit. He wanted the Ring because he'd already stored a significant portion of himself in it, and with that power would be equal to what he was. When the Ring was destroyed, that was essentially his backup/reservoir being blown up. While the Ring existed, he could never be wholly unbodied, there would always be something to reform from.
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Oooh, that's clever. That'd explain why he was so content to play the long game, because with the Ring he could wear his enemies down without risk of losing part of his power from being temporarily destroyed, and even the chance of that was further minimized via his increase in power...so long as some meddling hero didn't cut off his finger that bore the ring, those meddlesome kids.

Though it doesn't explain Melkor's reluctance to get personally involved against his non-Ainur enemies if he was similarly immortal, save for the possibility that all evil is inherently cowardly, and evil is Melkor.

Or perhaps it was because it was a hit and miss what would happen with Arda hating him, everyone on the other side loving trees except Dwarves, and such. And being destroyed isn't GOOD even if you can recover, like, say, if some pesky elves decided to take advantage of his absence to storm Angband.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Forgive my ignorance, but given he was chained to a mountain outside it seems like the eagle did most of the heavy lifting. Literally. Or I'm misremembering.
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He snuck in by himself, one of three people to ever do so. If it wasn't for thorondor, it would have been a mercy kill only, but:
silmarillion said:
and though he knew not yet that Maedhros had not forgotten him at the burning of the ships, the thought of their ancient friendship stung his heart. Therefore he dared a deed which is Justly renowned among the feats of the princes of the Noldor: alone, and without the counsel of any, he set forth in search of Maedhros; and aided by the very darkness that Morgoth had made he came unseen into the fastness of his foes. High upon the shoulders of Thangorodrim he climbed, and looked in despair upon the desolation of the land; but no passage or crevice could he find through which he might come within Morgoth's stronghold. Then in defiance of the Orcs, who cowered still in the dark vaults beneath the earth, he took his harp and sang a song of Valinor that the Noldor made of old, before strife was born among the sons of Finwë; and his voice rang in the mournful hollows that had never heard before aught save cries of fear and woe.

Thus Fingon found what he sought. For suddenly above him far and faint his song was taken up, and a voice answering called to him. Maedhros it was that sang amid his torment. But Fingon climbed to the foot of the precipice where his kinsman hung, and then could go no further; and he wept when he saw the cruel device of Morgoth. Maedhros therefore, being in anguish without hope, begged Fingon to shoot him with his bow; and Fingon strung an arrow, and bent his bow. And seeing no better hope he cried to Manwë, saying: 'O King to whom all birds are dear, speed now this feathered shaft, and recall some pity for the Noldor in their need!'

His prayer was answered swiftly. For Manwë to whom all birds are dear, and to whom they bring news upon Taniquetil from Middle-earth, had sent forth the race of Eagles, commanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth; for Manwë still had pity for the exiled Elves. And the Eagles brought news of much that passed in those days to the sad ears of Manwë. Now, even as Fingon bent his bow, there flew down from the high airs Thorondor, King of Eagles, mightiest of all birds that have ever been, whose outstretched wings spanned thirty fathoms; and staying Fingon's hand he took him up, and bore him to the face of the rock where Maedhros hung. But Fingon could not release the hell-wrought bond upon his wrist, nor sever it, nor draw it from the stone. Again therefore in his pain Maedhros begged that he would slay him; but Fingon cut off his above the wrist, and Thorondor bore them back to Mithrim.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
If I didn't know Morgoth was ultimately the embodiment of jealousy and greed and spite, and thus not prone to the smartest decisions, I'd wonder what he was thinking he was getting pouring his power in marring Arda seeing as the whole "cannot permanently die as part of me is all of Arda" thing doesn't really matter given the other Maiar can't permanently die either.

Is his (and later Sauron's, in a different way) form of immortality different?
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His pouring his power in makes him stronger, actually, at least indirectly. It's exchanging individual power for factional power at a favorable ratio. If he poured no power into arda, he'd just be the strongest Vala, and would be about half as strong as the others in combat (Tulkas can fight him, and <all the other valar> can fight him). Try to fight the Noldor? He'd get fucking murdered; it wouldn't even be close. Instead, he's now only a match for feanor or fingolfin, but in exchange he has over a million orcs, an impregnable fortress, werewolves, squadrons of heavy war trolls, Glaurung (and later many more dragons), and is in the process of getting several volcanoes to break the seige of the north. With these forces, even after exhausting strength fighting the Noldor and Sindar, he has enough strength to outmatch all 14 Valar, plus 100,000 Vanyar, thousands of surviving Noldor, Edain, Khazad, and Sindar veterans, supported logistically by the Teleri; they need to be saved by Earendil and the Eagles, and even then it takes decades for him to lose.

Similarly, Sauron pre 1ring has difficulties dealing with Finrod, and loses to Luthien. Sauron post 1ring can influence the Khazad rings, prevent the Quendi from using theirs, gets the Nazgul, and gains enough firepower to take on Elendil, Isuldur, Gil-Galad, Elrond, and Cirdan.
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Oooh, that's clever. That'd explain why he was so content to play the long game, because with the Ring he could wear his enemies down without risk of losing part of his power from being temporarily destroyed, and even the chance of that was further minimized via his increase in power...so long as some meddling hero didn't cut off his finger that bore the ring, those meddlesome kids.

Though it doesn't explain Melkor's reluctance to get personally involved against his non-Ainur enemies if he was similarly immortal, save for the possibility that all evil is inherently cowardly, and evil is Melkor.

Or perhaps it was because it was a hit and miss what would happen with Arda hating him, everyone on the other side loving trees except Dwarves, and such. And being destroyed isn't GOOD even if you can recover, like, say, if some pesky elves decided to take advantage of his absence to storm Angband.
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It's fear.
simarillion said:
Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.

That was the last time in those wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might was greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he knew fear.
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Thanks for clarifying @QTesseract I haven't had inclination to really go into the Silmarillion. I apologize if my ignorance offends anyone.

@Telamon How does the Lord of the Rings avoid the malus to Woodsmanship that afflicts his master and fellow servants?


Woodsmanship: N/A -- You are a servant of the Enemy, and the wood and the hill bend against you. (No modifer)
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Thanks for clarifying @QTesseract I haven't had inclination to really go into the Silmarillion. I apologize if my ignorance offends anyone.

@Telamon How does the Lord of the Rings avoid the malus to Woodsmanship that afflicts his master and fellow servants?
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This basically represents the fact that Sauron is the both lord of werewolves and a master of infiltrating and perverting natural things. He takes wolf form in the Silmarillion and proves a capable tracker and hunter, and several times serves Morgoth in such a capacity. He is still an enemy of the trees and the ents and the growing things, but they do not outright hinder him as they do his master.
 
Telamon said:
This basically represents the fact that Sauron is the both lord of werewolves and a master of infiltrating and perverting natural things. He takes wolf form in the Silmarillion and proves a capable tracker and hunter, and several times serves Morgoth in such a capacity. He is still an enemy of the trees and the ents and the growing things, but they do not outright hinder him as they do his master.
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Mmm, I admit I was previously of the opinion that Maiar were by and large sort of on the same level as Melian and Sauron, albeit they were probably at least a little special. But referencing the werewolf thing,
(Sauron has a servant, Draugluin, who is equivalent to a Rank 4 Leader. Gain +30 to all tracking rolls)
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it seems like the level of power is far more variable than that, to the point of some being quite weak for their capabilities.

Plus, thinking about it, even with the dragons if all the Maiar the Valar brought with them were in any way on the same tier as Melian and Sauron, it's difficult to imagine them being stalemated.
 
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@Telamon

Looking at the Powers of Beleriand sheet, both Baran and Halbeth have Combat 10, but Baran gets a +40 modifier while Halbeth gets none. Is that an error, or does Baran being directly of the House of Beor mean he just gets more from the same rating?
 
Chimeraguard said:
@Telamon

Looking at the Powers of Beleriand sheet, both Baran and Halbeth have Combat 10, but Baran gets a +40 modifier while Halbeth gets none. Is that an error, or does Baran being directly of the House of Beor mean he just gets more from the same rating?
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It's not the only thing like that. Melian and Thingol have equivalent 20 in Woodsmanship for example, but he has +140 to her +120. Might be a sort of variety or specialization. Like how one is a master of something, and the other is a master but innately attuned or capable beyond what comes from base natural talent or existence. Melian is that good because she's an elite Maiar, and thus naturally awesome, whereas Thingol is less naturally awesome but still quite awesome and specializes in traversing the trees and woods.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Mmm, I admit I was previously of the opinion that Maiar were by and large sort of on the same level as Melian and Sauron, albeit they were probably at least a little special. But referencing the werewolf thing, it seems like the level of power is far more variable than that, to the point of some being quite weak for their capabilities.

Plus, thinking about it, even with the dragons if all the Maiar the Valar brought with them were in any way on the same tier as Melian and Sauron, it's difficult to imagine them being stalemated.
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Mairon is an exceptionally powerful Maiar. Not all Ainur are created equal, obviously; even among the valar, there are three levels of power (Melkor>Aratar*>Other valar), and the same is true for the Maiar; there's a large gap between someone like Thu or Eonwe or Melian and someone like Thuringwethil.


E: you're also underestimating dragons. Ancalagon was big enough to shatter the tops of mountains when he fell, for instance, and during sudden flame Glaurung Led the charge and the Balrogs followed up on his breakthrough. There's a reason no one killed the thing before Turin got around to it.

*Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Oromë, Mandos, Yavanna, Nienna
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
It's not the only thing like that. Melian and Thingol have equivalent 20 in Woodsmanship for example, but he has +140 to her +120.
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This did make me curious how stats are chosen for humans vs elves vs shadow and how they influence the modifiers. Like all humans have at least three skills over 10 and the rest below or exactly 10.
 
Right, after half a day, soonish should come. Let's look at the tally.
Adhoc vote count started by agumentic on Aug 14, 2019 at 12:42 AM, finished with 264 posts and 52 votes.
  • [X] Plan Healing Moon
    -[X] Invite the dark-haired men to join you in Estolad, and swear themselves to the elves. (Increased relation with Finrod, some of the new men may share Estolad with you)
    --[X] Baran​
    -[x] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things.
    --[x] Halbeth
    -[X] The Moon Way: In the darkest days of the Great Flight, when the Shadow stretched across the world and the power of the Enemy prevailed upon all, those who could walk without sound and move without sight were valued above all others. This is the way they kept silent from the Orcs and outran the Wargs, in the light of the moon in older days. The Elves know the power of the Moon, whom they call Ithil, and name it among the great enemies of the Shadow.
    -[X] The Healing Way: An old crone named Imarwen remembers her mothers' mothers tales of the grasses and the herbs and the words which could heal, which could quicken womb and help bone mend. The words have all but been forgotten, and the skill is all but dead. Belen learns it from her. The elves know something of this way, and say in their songs that Este, the gentlest of the Valar, weeps for the suffering of mortals, and aids them as she can.
    -[X] The hunters say that there seems to be great abundance in the forests to your north. They wish to explore it.
    -[x] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food)
    -[x] You begin the construction of small, temporary homes to shelter your people. Little more than hovels of mud and wood, they are still more than you have ever known.
    --[x] Request Elven Aid (may owe the elves)
    -[x] You give extra rations to the elderly and the Wise, that the memory of where we have been does not fade before it can be passed on. (Requires an extra month of food)(Increase the influence of the Wise)
    -[x] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
    [X] Deep Roots are not touched by the frost
    [X] Plan Of Ents and Men
    -[x] Attempt to convince the dark-haired men to join your folk in Estolad and become members of the House of Beor. (Decreased Morale among the people, some of the new men may join you)
    --[X] Baran​
    -[x] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things.
    -[x] The Wood Way: In days gone by on the shores of the Sea of Rhun, the Quendi taught the oldest of your ancestors the art of speaking to the trees, and the Ents deepened their knowledge. They say that your fathers' fathers could induce the elm to grow, could persuade the yew to part with itself, and could make their homes amid the trees as the elves did. The elves know this way, and attribute it to the Valar Yavanna, who is mother of all growing things.
    -[x] The Sun Way: It is a truth in your bones, that your ancestors have always known: the Enemy is weaker in the light of the sun. The ancient foe fears the sun and her children, the licking flame and the roaring fire. In days gone by, the greatest warriors of your people fought the orcs brandishing a burning blaze and shouting aloud that day, for all the Shadow might avail you, would come again. The elves know this way, and call it the Flame of Anor.
    -[x] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food)
    --[x] Halbeth
    -[x] The hunters are new-come to this new land, and request your permission to travel to it's bounds and edges to map out your new home.
    -[x] You begin the construction of small, temporary homes to shelter your people. Little more than hovels of mud and wood, they are still more than you have ever known.
    --[x] Request Elven Aid (may owe the elves)
    -[x] You give extra rations to the elderly and the Wise, that the memory of where we have been does not fade before it can be passed on. (Requires an extra month of food)(Increase the influence of the Wise)
    -[x] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
    [X] Plan Healing Way
    [X] Plan Their Grace​

    -[X] You accept the offer of Finrod, and take a final, greater step. You swear yourself into the service of Finrod Felagund, as his vassal and leal servant, for all the days of your mortal life. You will dwell with him in his realm of Nargothrond, and your son Baran will lead your people ever after. So will begin a friendship between the House of Finwe and the House of Beor that will last all the days of the World. (Gain Trait: Elf-Friends, remove Great Flight modifier, lose Beor as a leader, Faction Leader becomes Baran, Gain Modifier: Beor the Old for as long as Beor lives, granting +5 to all Wisdom and Lore rolls, Gain Permanent Ally: The Kingdom of Nargothrond, can begin the Ring of Finrod questline later on)​

    -[X] The Grace of the Undying: The Elves are fair and graceful beyond measure. Their words carry the weight of centuries, and they move with the self-assured grace of the undying. Learning from Finrod has passed some small part of this on to your people. (+10 to all Diplomacy rolls for ten turns, leaders are generated with minimum 7 Grace)​
    --[X] Baran​
    -[X] The Song of the Firstborn: Finrod's song still echoes in your hearts, and the tunes that he taught the Wise are but pale echoes of the beautiful sounds that fell from his lips. His song, he says, is itself a pale echo of another song and an older Music, a greater tune that woke before the World. There is a power to the Music, he says, a strength to the song. Those who can master it's tunes may master the world -- for the world is the song, and the song is the world. (+10 to all Magic rolls, increased chance to generate Bard leaders, Bard leaders generate with minimum 8 Magic.)​
    --[x] Belen​
    -[X] The Wise seek to practice the songs and arts of Finrod, in an attempt to reproduce his haunting music.​
    -[X] Some among the Wise know something of the old magic of tree and wood and fen, the arts which bend earth and shape stone. You wish to know more of these things. (Begin Questline: The Old Ways. The Wise begin to investigate magic. -1 action to the Wise for ??? turns. The leader selected may have his magic increased by ???)​
    -[X] The Wise know much of the woods and the wild, of the earth that is wide and holds many secrets. You ask them to led their wisdom. (Increased chance of finding food this turn, chance of finding ??? in the wild)​
    --[X] Beor​
    -[X] The hunters say that in their rangings they have stumbled upon a great glade, in which lies a lake filled with shimmering stones. You could send some hunters to investigate.​
    -[X] There are hunters of great skill and fame among their number, and a select few of these may grow greater still. (Chance of recruiting a Ranger or Warrior leader)​
    -[X] Some among your people do not trust the elves. You speak to them, calming their fears and reassuring them.​
    -[X] A new generation of children has begun to come up, the first in many lifetimes who have known green grasses and lived more than a few months without the Great Flight. You order the Wise to pay special attention to their tutelage. (???)​
    -[X] Finrod has not been alone. Elves have followed him from their Western kingdoms, and some among your people have begun to barter with the strange travelers, trading their hand-made arts and embroideries for elvish fineries and even small silver trinkets. You encourage this burgeoning trade.​
    -[X] You send the Wise among them to collect their stories and tales of the past year, adding them to the collected stories of the House.​
    -[X] You order the fastest among your people to scout into the surrounding lands and return with news.​
    -[X] You send scouts to search the low passes of the mountains for signs of the other clans of Men you know attempted the crossing.​
    [X] The Wise seek to practice the songs and arts of Finrod, in an attempt to reproduce his haunting music: DC 120​
    [X] The Wise know much of the woods and the wild, of the earth that is wide and holds many secrets. You ask them to led their wisdom. (Increased chance of finding food this turn, chance of finding ??? in the wild): DC 90​
    -[X] The hunters say that in their rangings they have stumbled upon a great glade, in which lies a lake filled with shimmering stones. You could send some hunters to investigate. DC 55​
    [X] There are hunters of great skill and fame among their number, and a select few of these may grow greater still. (Chance of recruiting a Ranger or Warrior leader): DC 140​
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Oooh, that's clever. That'd explain why he was so content to play the long game, because with the Ring he could wear his enemies down without risk of losing part of his power from being temporarily destroyed, and even the chance of that was further minimized via his increase in power...so long as some meddling hero didn't cut off his finger that bore the ring, those meddlesome kids.

Though it doesn't explain Melkor's reluctance to get personally involved against his non-Ainur enemies if he was similarly immortal, save for the possibility that all evil is inherently cowardly, and evil is Melkor.

Or perhaps it was because it was a hit and miss what would happen with Arda hating him, everyone on the other side loving trees except Dwarves, and such. And being destroyed isn't GOOD even if you can recover, like, say, if some pesky elves decided to take advantage of his absence to storm Angband.
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Melkor is the essence of Evil. He is petty without reason and utterly self absorbed. Because of this he is a Coward who fears fighting anyone who could potentially hurt him.

Its Tolkien's thesis about evil. Just as Sauron was reduced from one of the greatest Maiar into a power less shadow the same degradation happened to Melkor. Evil inherently makes you lesser in the end.

Morgoth is an once architect of the world who cannot build or create only destroy and corrupt. Once mightiest of the Valar he can now be permanently wounded by a sufficiently hero.

He doesn't take advantage of his immortality unlike Sauron who actually had goals he was willing to suffer for, Morgoth only cares for himself and he is too chickenshit to subject himself to any kind of true suffering for the sake of any goal
 
@Telamon
With Healing Moon in the lead, I'd like to ask/confirm: Will there be other opportunities to learn the Wood Way, either from the Ents or Elves? Since it seems like a big thing to want for our focus and skillset.
 
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