The latin word for fireworks is apparently "Ignes artificiosi".
Comparing to Italian and Spanish (To very romantic languages, literally), they use "fuochi d'artificio" and "fuegos artificiales" respectively. So I am confident the word is correct.
This reminds me of a sub-plot in "An ISOT in Grimdark" in which Celestial wizards could have visions by observing shooting stars (Or comets? I don't remember). The college patriarch stumbles on the fact that watching rocket launches (Germany was ISOTed to Warhammer) has the same effect.
Yo yo, It's so cool to stumble onto a fellow fan of that story here! Given the risk of derailing, I'll follow up further questions past this post on your profile if you don't mind. Every time I've brought it up with other Warhammer fans no one knows what I'm talking about or so it feels.
Is it also what really got you into that setting?
Did Archeon getting run over by a tank also bring you extreme catharsis? Were you also confused by the Skaven adopting such an unaltered version of Christianity despite it being one of the most anthropocentric religions? Was Lord Mordred cool or lame, what about the same for Nathan Alpers?
Sorry If I am annoying as I said that particular story has held a deep place in my heart. I haven't been able to bring myself to read Curtainfall because I think I'd either cry right now or get very annoyed waiting for the epilogue if I clifhangered myself like that.
Harry Potter also has atrocious self esteem, I'm not sure he actually cares if he takes risks himself, but coupled to zero faith in authority he just takes surviving with a shrug.
He puts a much higher stake on the health of his few friends.
They are using Common Sense but a completely different type. A wizard or witch in HP is used to being able to cure themselves of debilitating injuries using a spell or a potion, so they don't care about dangerous situations as much. The only real danger is instant death or DARK MAGIC.
Harry Potter also has atrocious self esteem, I'm not sure he actually cares if he takes risks himself, but coupled to zero faith in authority he just takes surviving with a shrug.
He puts a much higher stake on the health of his few friends.
Low self esteem doubt Harry puts others before himself, but that half of all hero's. And he has plenty of faith in authority right now, even in the ministry. That does not fade until book 2.
"I caught Snape tampering with my broom yesterday. I saw him cursing my broom today. That you're the class favourite doesn't change that," he hisses. A few seconds pass and his expression softens, "He's dangerous, Zagreus, and he's up to something."
That's sweet. They're both trying to look out for the other in their own way. It's a shame Zagreus couldn't tell Harry any more, especially the fact that two spells were being cast.
Yo yo, It's so cool to stumble onto a fellow fan of that story here! Given the risk of derailing, I'll follow up further questions past this post on your profile if you don't mind. Every time I've brought it up with other Warhammer fans no one knows what I'm talking about or so it feels.
Is it also what really got you into that setting?
Did Archeon getting run over by a tank also bring you extreme catharsis? Were you also confused by the Skaven adopting such an unaltered version of Christianity despite it being one of the most anthropocentric religions? Was Lord Mordred cool or lame, what about the same for Nathan Alpers?
Sorry If I am being annoyed as I said that particular story has held a deep place in my heart. I haven't been able to bring myself to read Curtainfall because I think I'd either cry right now or get very annoyed waiting for the epilogue if I clifhangered myself like that.
I liked Nathan Alpers, or at least I liked the German space program and he was a positive aspect of that. Archeon being flattened was a great moment, but I think the armoured train driving into the quarry and steam blasing those beast men was the highlight of the war.
I guess at the core I liked that the story was able to interesting conflict between factions despite strategic mismatch between Germany and its neighbours. There are practical constraints on Germany and each of the races on Mallus adapt and pivot to a different strategy to achieve their interests.
Despite taking liberties with the source material, the authors give a pretty grounded vision of how Mallus and Germany would interact with each other. It is where the most interesting creative opportunities sit. How do Betonian peasants experience the transition? How do the high elves deal with a much more powerful, less controllable humanity? What can magic and technology realistically accomplish together? etc.
It is similar this story we are on now. Zagreus isn't actually altering the plot of Harry Potter, just kind of experiencing it from a foreign perspective. If the quest was written for a HP wizard going through these events, it would have been much less interesting. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed Zagreus' talk with the Fat Friar. Their earnest attempts to understand each other's religious perspectives is better than a thread quest should be.
Low self esteem doubt Harry puts others before himself, but that half of all hero's. And he has plenty of faith in authority right now, even in the ministry. That does not fade until book 2.
In the sense that he doesn't think authority will solve his problems, doing it by himself even with other options available.
Its a common experience for a bullying victim, especially when Dudley is teflon coated in the eyes of the adults.
Yeah I think people here are a bit unfair when they go "why doesn't Harry go to the authorities and instead tries to solve things himself like a problem child??" Reminder as traumatic as Zagreus' backstory is, what happened to him was illegal and the appropriate authorities found him and the system essentially took care of him--the Empires institutions worked for Zagreus. Harry spent a childhood growing up with incredibly negligent guardians at best, and was constantly bullied, to the point of severe physical danger--see all the comments about "Harry Hunting"--no teacher around him gave a single fuck about.
Zagreus' experiences have taught him going to an adult will help, Harry has a lifetime telling him otherwise.
Yeah I think people here are a bit unfair when they go "why doesn't Harry go to the authorities and instead tries to solve things himself like a problem child??" Reminder as traumatic as Zagreus' backstory is, what happened to him was illegal and the appropriate authorities found him and the system essentially took care of him--the Empires institutions worked for Zagreus. Harry spent a childhood growing up with incredibly negligent guardians at best, and was constantly bullied, to the point of severe physical danger--see all the comments about "Harry Hunting"--no teacher around him gave a single fuck about.
Zagreus' experiences have taught him going to an adult will help, Harry has a lifetime telling him otherwise.
Harry just… doesn't have pleasant experiences with authority figures in canon, at all. They either are criminally negligent, drag him into hilariously dangerous situations, or are just outright criminals. Gilderoy, Snape, Quirrel, the Dursleys, Umbridge, and just the entirety of the Ministry in general are the most obvious offenders, but even those who generally try to look out for Harry endanger him.
Remus was turned into a raging werewolf, Hagrid filled the Forbidden Forest with giant spiders that almost ate him (among other things), and Dumbledore seemed to consistently enable Harry into seeking out these situations.
To be fair, that isn't far from the actual truth regarding the way the mind of wizarding folk works.
I mean, just look at how Neville's family addressed his potential death by being thrown out of a window by his own uncle because he wasn't paying attention to what he was doing.
"Well, my gran brought me up and she's a witch," said Neville, "but the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages. My Great Uncle Algie kept trying to catch me off my guard and force some magic out of me -- he pushed me off the end of Blackpool pier once, I nearly drowned -- but nothing happened until I was eight. Great Uncle Algie came round for dinner, and he was hanging me out of an upstairs window by the ankles when my Great Auntie Enid offered him a meringue and he accidentally let go. But I bounced -- all the way down the garden and into the road. They were all really pleased, Gran was crying, she was so happy. And you should have seen their faces when I got in here -- they thought I might not be magic enough to come, you see. Great Uncle Algie was so pleased he bought me my toad."
From my point of view, wizards basically think they live in a sort of videogame reality, with no actual consequences most of the time.
The closest analogy it comes to my mind would be legend of Zelda, with link being able to survive falling of great heights. View: https://youtu.be/GarbpIKHtOs
When I picture Neville surviving the potentially fatal fall that awoke his latent magic potential, I imagine something like that.
And they also rely on potions constantly to get fixed up in a minute from crippling injuries.
Have you lost your bones? Get a healing potion!!
As a matter of fact, there are some curious parallelisms between harry potter and legend of Zelda, the main one that comes to my mind being the fact that the number three holds a specially significant meaning.
Whereas in legend of Zelda it would be the triforce the symbol that embodies the three cosmic forces that balance the world.
And it's also followed by a legend that explains how those unimaginable powerful sources of power came to be View: https://youtu.be/9XSWZc1JBcs
But considering that is a common trope in fantasy, the similarities are more coincidental than anything else, bordering of standard.
On the other hand if we had to make a comparison between what Zagreus life was like back in his world and a videogame, it wouldn't be too far fetched nor exaggeration to compare it with resident evil and all the mutant monstrosities that threaten humankind, and that are barely pulled back. View: https://youtu.be/8ZEXGUczkiY
The latin word for fireworks is apparently "Ignes artificiosi".
Comparing to Italian and Spanish (To very romantic languages, literally), they use "fuochi d'artificio" and "fuegos artificiales" respectively. So I am confident the word is correct.
This remindes me of a sub-plot in "An ISOT in Grimdark" in which Celestial wizards could have visions by observing shooting stars (Or comets? I don't remember). The college patriarch stumbles on the fact that watching rocket launches (Germany was ISOTed to Warhammer) has the same effect.
Oh yeah. I remember that fic. It's been a while since I read it, but if memory doesn't fail me, it was actually good, if a bit long, and it hadn't been finished yet, so I dropped it until it was complete, and then I forgot it completely. How is it going, by the way?
The way I remember it, it was a bit like the Japanese light novel "gate" (which has also an anime), but better written, and without playing favorites with the German government, unlike what happens with the Japanese army in "Gate".
By the way, if you are interested, there's a crossover between warhammer fantasy and Gate, that I liked a lot, called "Gatehammer fantasy battles" (cheesy name, I know), that follows the conflict between the Saderan Empire, and the Empire of Man , with a bit of intervention for the high elves of ulthuan and the dwarves ' part.
Unfortunately, it hasn't been finished, although I liked that the odds between both factions were more even, and that it wasn't a curbstomp in favor of the empire of man in warhammer fantasy (although they are obviously superior). And I liked how striking was the contrast between the grittiness and grimdarkness of warhammer fantasy, with battle seasoned warriors that had stood against impossibly dangerous enemies, and the somewhat uwu kawainess of the anime genre that Gate draws inspiration from (I mean, had it been a bit more seinen, maybe they would have had a chance against the empire of man, instead of being a medieval version of RWBY).
There are also many, many cultural differences, between the Saderans and the old world imperials, like the Saderans being flabbergasted at the fact old-worlders liked to burn heretics and mutants alive, or that the imperials were shocked at Saderans organizing gladiator fighting pits with duels to the death, because apparently Sadera was based on the Roman empire (which is actually a myth, in reality, casualties during gladiatoral fights were very rare, as gladiators were costly to train and expensive to equip, and they were also a long-term investment that their sponsors couldn't afford to waste at the first round).
Another crossover fic that I would like to recommend would be "An investigation into the Primarch Sigmar's homeworld", whose main premise would be
"What happens when some naïve Great Crusade-era Space Marines land on a world where gods are real, medieval soldiers can kill Bloodthirsters, and everything is utterly tainted by the Warp? Hilarity, horror, and lots of stupid deaths, that's what."
By far the best crossover between warhammer fantasy and warhammer 40k (actually, it was the only one I could find that was somewhat consistent), what makes it interesting is the fact that, although the space Marines are obviously superior in terms of technological development, they aren't the space Marines that have stood for ten thousand years against the forces of chaos, and still believe in the secular and god-denying Imperial Truth, so they are rather unprepared for the psychedelic shit that awaits them on mallus, although they adapt quickly.
Following the adventures of some canon characters, like Ahriman , before being corrupted by Tzeentch, Luther, before betraying Lion, and Bjorn, when he hadn't been entombed in a dreadnought yet, they must navigate through a world that is hellbent into killing them, while having to reevaluate some preconceptions about how the universe works and how some teachings of the emperor may be flawed, in an au where Sigmar was one of the emperor's primarchs, although with some personal quirks that set him apart from the rest.
Oh yeah. I remember that fic. It's been a while since I read it, but if memory doesn't fail me, it was actually good, if a bit long, and it hadn't been finished yet, so I dropped it until it was complete, and then I forgot it completely. How is it going, by the way?
Err, I has been a long time. Think I read a little past the aerial assault on Zharr-Naggrund, then dropped it because new chapters hadn't been released. I guess its a little like GATE, but much less dumb and jingoistic. It is also extremely German, I initially thought the writing was being brought down by EAASL. While that is a small problem initially, once I grokked the authors' mindset I enjoyed the story a lot more.
After the Germans wreck Acheon and his storm of Chaos, on eof the major plot points is a series of skaven terrorist attacks. After a high speed track accident and a class of kindergarteners is poisoned, Germany attacks Skavenblight. After fighting to the bottom levels, the German government buries the city with a nuclear bomb placed inside of the the Great Bell.
The Bell is made of warpstone and due to extenuating curcumstances, the force of the explosion extends into the warp a kills the Horned Rat. With the spiritual connection to their god severed, the Skaven go berzerk then become listless. One of the Skaven prisoners latch onto what ever religious guidence they receive, which is happens to be a catholic priest. When provided with a new purpose, the prisoners rapidling convert eachother to Catholism. A vision of the future in a later chapter relieves that Skaven missionaries are running around 30 years later trying to convert anyone they meet.
@Canario Marino Well ....I guess others might be inconvenienced if I PMed you....s
Basically what happened with the Skaven was
a combination of watching the great horned rat wiped by a few magic-laced nukes a point blank range
and going through the modern german prisoner of war pipeline involving the joys of being deloused having space, clean air....seeing convinced some of them to seek a new life among those they now saw as stronger than them.
Yes, direct preaching contributed but I really think Skaven receiving something like humane treatment for once in their lives had a profound impact too.
Well, it looks like I got eshin'd while typing up a response that happens to the best of us.
Now that I think about it turning Sylvania into a realm of friendly vampires with a huge industrial output was even more impressive though.
Another crossover fic that I would like to recommend would be "An investigation into the Primarch Sigmar's homeworld", whose main premise would be...
(actually, it was the only one I could find that was somewhat consistent
I deeply appreciate the knowlege of a new crossover I will now look into..however I... I'm deeply saddened that our forums resident 40K/Fantasy crossover is being treated as nonexistent or Irrelevant since the topic has been brought up.
The Mallus Compliance is, in my opinion, a pretty high-quality narrative quest thread involving something like 200 space marines plus their allies being stranded on our favorite World That was.
Highlights include:
Wide-scale failure of an early ends times because of Nurgles plans conflicting with the other gods. Various results but the main one is rendering the chaos wastes lifeless, and no I don't just mean warpier, but more like accidentally sterilized.
Sisters Of The Bloody Rose {Battle Sisters who wear red and prefer mele over flamers} are mistaken for followers of Valkia The Bloody, leading to strong relations with the Norscans.
Settra The Imperishable kills the chapter master in one on one combat.
Nagash comes back early.
The Norse dwarves become steadfast allies of the Celestial Lions and runic armor begins to get explored.
The whole Zombie Emperor plot from the vampire wars changes massively as the lions manipulate that to their long-term advantage.
*Skaven blow up a spaceship in orbit.
If that sounds like a bland premise I'm describing then I don't know where I went wrong as a Warhammer fan.
Also, I did find it pretty consistent, for example, it meshes Old One obsidian-based artifacts from fantasy with 40k Blackstone, which given the strong similarity in function seems more than reasonable to me. The Marines go looking for nehekaran DNA because they notice how much healthier it is in comparison to baseline**, etc
It also does something I see too rarely in crossovers and depicts the Imperium as consistently flawed, the imperials in this story are often inches away from tearing each other's throats out over their varying religious beliefs and their divided loyalties. The Sororitas for example view our resident Astartes as dangerous mutants leading everyone else around them into a slow motion death spiral.
*The Skaven may have had help though, it's a currently developing plot
**Non-Mutant Norscans also unsurprisingly make great Astartes stock.
.
EDIT: I am sorry for not appropriately using spoilers.
That... doesn't seem accurate, given that the Old World is very familiar with the tradition of both fighting pits (a cultural more introduced by Ogre mercenaries, originally) and judicial duels.
It is similar this story we are on now. Zagreus isn't actually altering the plot of Harry Potter, just kind of experiencing it from a foreign perspective. If the quest was written for a HP wizard going through these events, it would have been much less interesting. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed Zagreus' talk with the Fat Friar. Their earnest attempts to understand each other's religious perspectives is better than a thread quest should be.
Do you mean that if a wizard from Harry Potter did the same things as zagreus, like roleplaying, or flying in a broom for the first time, or tasting sweets that zagreus didn't know he existed, it wouldn't have been as interesting?
Or do you mean that if a wizard was sent to the colleges of magic, much in the same way Zagreus was jolted into Hogwarts, and they had to adapt to the idiosyncrasies and cultural values that make the empire the way it is, it wouldn't be as interesting?
Because I think that it would be an interesting premise, basically an inversed situation to the ordeal zagreus has found himself in.
It would be much more difficult and potentially deadlier than the comparatively kinder world earth is, when compared to life in mallus, but that only means that, should a wizard from Hogwarts survive the many, many threats that lurk in the shadows, they would come back as tough as nails.
As a matter of fact , I kinda came up with an idea.
Do you remember that, at some point in this quest, we (and by "we" I mean all the participants on this thread) discussed about where could Zagreus stay during the summer holidays, and with whom?
And one of us (I don't remember who specifically) suggested as a joke that Zagreus could stay the summer in privet drive, little whinging, along with Harry and the dursleys, as a sort of Harry 's roommate?
Obviously, it was just to imagine Vernon's reaction, which would be pretty explosive if Dumbledore entrusted him with another kid, apart from Harry, whom Vernon would also see as an abnormality and a freak.
What if Zagreus somehow managed to find a way to return to the colleges of magic and his home by opening a self-maintaining portal, like the ones in Stargate,but because the opportunity of learning a whole new discipline of magic, along with the more advanced and developed technologies that can be replicated with the means the empire has at its disposal, even if on earth they would be considered outdated, in order to improve the quality life of the average citizen in the empire?
Better plumbing, types of food unknown until then, like tomatoes, etc.
And so, Karl Franz decides to keep the portal opened, although its existence would be kept in secret, and the number of people allowed to actually cross it would be severely regulated, in order to prevent unwanted interlopers.
But because Zagreus was one of the few people that managed to survive crossing the gate that threw him on earth, apart from the fact that he is a priest of morr chosen by him personally, he was given a bit of a leeway and a certain margin of freedom despite his age and low rank within the colleges. He would be basically a sort of undercover agent that gathers useful information for the empire, studying in the colleges during summer, and maintaining the exchange student facade at Hogwarts during the rest of the year, and Zagreus would roll with it because he is very loyal (I think he would have made a good Hufflepuff).
And that's where harry would enter.
You see, I imagine that, if Harry was offered the opportunity to spend summer holidays anywhere but the dursleys ' , he would probably jump at the opportunity. But why would the empire want Zagreus to bring harry potter, of all people, into the colleges? Why, because harry belongs to a race of human beings that not only generate their own magic, but also show signs of a certain resilience to Dhar, on a level that is above humans, but below elves, when it comes to the development of mutations caused by exposure to Dhar, being necessary a prolonged and self-inflicted exposure to dark magic in order to any sign of corruption to manifest, much like it happened to Voldemort, who only began to show signs of mutation after he twisted his soul for years.
And the colleges would certainly be very interested in that fact, enough to want to conduct a research regarding the way wizarding magic works, in order to see wether they can replicate the results and also to pass them to their own people, to shield them against the warp taint.
And harry would be perfect for the role because he is itching to get away from the dursleys' grasp.
And no, in this prompt, the colleges wouldn't want to vivisect harry, only to run some medical and perfectly safe tests (they wouldn't want to spoil the opportunity to increase their knowledge of wizarding magic and its multiple appliances by antagonizing Dumbledore by trying to use harry as a human guinea pig).
Of course, there's also the issue of why would Dumbledore allow Harry to leave the blood wards that Dumbledore set in Petunia's house. Well, in my opinion, the fact that the colleges of magic are one of the safest institutions in the empire would dissuade him a bit. Also, the fact that Zagreus along with Harry, play a role in Voldemort's defeat could convince him that they need to become closer in order to work in tandem to destroy Voldemort, and so, spending a bit of time as roommates would probably strengthen their (currently nonexistent) bond.
Besides, I want to see Harry getting acclimated to the totally different environment that is the colleges of magic, where proper respect and absolute trust of authority is mandatory, along with unquestionable obedience of the rules, because the consequences can be dire otherwise.
But also, it would be also interesting if, because harry is able to cast something very similar to high magic without it curling into Dhar, like what usually happens with human sorcerers in warhammer fantasy, Teclis, supreme archmage of ulthuan, was informed by his spies in the colleges (because of course the guy that helped to fund the colleges would have spies) of this new development, and requested that harry was brought to ulthuan to be checked by the loremasters of sapphery.
And harry, who has just begun to realize where he has gotten into, ask wether Zagreus can come with him, because he is the only sane person he can trust in this clusterfuck, and the elves are all "sure, why not, it's just a human. I mean, no human has set a foot in ulthuan beyond lothern, but this opportunity can't be missed, and if this strange human with strange magic become more compliant if we allow him to bring this child, then let's roll with it".
And Zagreus, who idolizes Teclis, of course would want to go. The problem would be the pirate raids of norscans and dark elves that would try to board the ship zagreus and harry are sailing on, which would force them to fight for their lives.
That... doesn't seem accurate, given that the Old World is very familiar with the tradition of both fighting pits (a cultural more introduced by Ogre mercenaries, originally) and judicial duels.
Yeah I think people here are a bit unfair when they go "why doesn't Harry go to the authorities and instead tries to solve things himself like a problem child??" Reminder as traumatic as Zagreus' backstory is, what happened to him was illegal and the appropriate authorities found him and the system essentially took care of him--the Empires institutions worked for Zagreus. Harry spent a childhood growing up with incredibly negligent guardians at best, and was constantly bullied, to the point of severe physical danger--see all the comments about "Harry Hunting"--no teacher around him gave a single fuck about.
Zagreus' experiences have taught him going to an adult will help, Harry has a lifetime telling him otherwise.
How long do you reckon it will take for Zagreus to realize that the adults in harry potter are rather useless, not to mention the ministry of magic that runs the wizarding world, is rotten to the core? , making Zagreus becoming as disillusioned as harry regarding the trust in authority?
And what do you think harry would think about the system actually protecting Zagreus from attempts against his life, and the adults being basically everything harry would have wanted to have as a support during his time under the dursleys' care?
Also, I can't stop imagining that, because Zagreus is very grateful of the colleges of magic saving his life and giving him an education, every time someone asks him about what is life like in the empire, he goes all patriotic and sparkly- eyed, chanting the empire praises.
Like, for some reason, I find endlessly hilarious that Zagreus, when it comes to the empire, talks as if he was in an American propaganda advertisement during the ww2, with the imperial equivalent of uncle Sam .
Every fic brought up involved a Warhammer Fantasy crossover story in direct response to another post, I was trying to be cautious and just give context and a singular additional example as was I think everyone else? For future reference, I'm not sure where he line into irrelevancy was crossed?
I'm not trying to pull your leg, this thread has gone on to discuss LOTR before without getting this sort of response because it also sprung from elaborating on similar such, so where should the line be?
That... doesn't seem accurate, given that the Old World is very familiar with the tradition of both fighting pits (a cultural more introduced by Ogre mercenaries, originally) and judicial duels.
I think what was meant is that especially in the empire while Gladiatorial stuff is not unknown it has been illegal for a long time and widely detested. It would be like a British ISOT having to deal with slave rings all over again.
Judicial duels I don't think hold the same headspace for most imperials either as the context for such violence is radically different.
EDIT 2 @Canario Marino I noticed you thought about food in the empire. I've looked into that in depth before and while I'm not sure if they do have tomatoes yet, contact through the New World from places like Skeggi and Swamp town have introduced Maize and Pumpkins at least to the old world by the time of Karl Franz, from what I can tell canonically the empire is going through it's own columbian exchange just before the End Times mess things up...
Only with a whole heck of a lot less disease crossover because lizardmen and humans are very physiologically different. The new RP book on Lustria might have more details on this than I do if you can get a hold of it at some point.
Yo yo, It's so cool to stumble onto a fellow fan of that story here! Given the risk of derailing, I'll follow up further questions past this post on your profile if you don't mind. Every time I've brought it up with other Warhammer fans no one knows what I'm talking about or so it feels.
Is it also what really got you into that setting? Did Archeon getting run over by a tank also bring you extreme catharsis? Were you also confused by the Skaven adopting such an unaltered version of Christianity despite it being one of the most anthropocentric religions? Was Lord Mordred cool or lame, what about the same for Nathan Alpers?
A good rule of thumb is, if it's not immediately relevant to the plot of this fic, then it is not needed here. This is not a general Warhammer Fantasy thread. This is a specific thread for this WHF/HP fic. Is it something immediately about this fic? Great! Is it something that may be relevant to this fic, even tangentially? Fine.
But if it's not about this fic nor even trying to stay related to this fic, then it's off-topic and shouldn't be here. People in this thread have skirted very close to that line numerous times in the past and have even gone over it once or twice, but several posts in a row discussing a story that is 1) not this story and 2) has no connection, relevance, or worth to this story is farther than has gone before.
I've seen mods hand out points for less, and I rather we not bring that kind of attention here!
Anyway. I am curious if Zagreus will meet other versions of himself, I mean those who have different Winds of Magic. I am not gonna talk about different gods because it is different can of worms to open.
One way I could see Harry's faith in authority figures getting partially restored is if he gets convinced to see Madame Pomfrey about his scar pain. I double checked the aftermath of the Grindylow attack and I don't see it being mentioned then.
Not sure if she'd be able to do anything other than pain relief, but if nothing else Zagreus would be able to guarantee that she'd take Harry seriously.
When the conversation becomes about the plot of other fics that have no relevance on this one, that is a derail. And all of these replies:
Are continuing the derail.
A good rule of thumb is, if it's not immediately relevant to the plot of this fic, then it is not needed here. This is not a general Warhammer Fantasy thread. This is a specific thread for this WHF/HP fic. Is it something immediately about this fic? Great! Is it something that may be relevant to this fic, even tangentially? Fine.
But if it's not about this fic nor even trying to stay related to this fic, then it's off-topic and shouldn't be here. People in this thread have skirted very close to that line numerous times in the past and have even gone over it once or twice, but several posts in a row discussing a story that is 1) not this story and 2) has no connection, relevance, or worth to this story is farther than has gone before.
I've seen mods hand out points for less, and I rather we not bring that kind of attention here!
Okay but what's your suggestion, for actually not leaving people in confusion in a case like this with the skaven question, because my first thought was just to start sending PMS, but since it seemed like multiple people wanted to know I was worried that that might not actually satisfy them?
Maybe @theM on Faith Steel and Fanfiction? I genuinely don't want to cause trouble for the thread that's why it's only been a few posts rather than, you know a page of this.
EDIT: Yeah I've been being dumb as a brick please ignore this.
@Canario Marino I noticed you thought about food in the empire. I've looked into that in depth before and while I'm not sure if they do have tomatoes yet, contact through the New World from places like Skeggi and Swamp town have introduced Maize and Pumpkins at least to the old world by the time of Karl Franz, from what I can tell canonically the empire is going through it's own columbian exchange just before the End Times mess things up...
Pumpkins, you say?
Do you realize that hasn´t been that long since Zagreus went through his first halloween night, Earth style, right?
Do you know what that means? If Zagreus manages to find a way back home, he will have the chance to share an important piece of terran culture amongst the rest of fellow imperial citizens!!
Carved pumpkins for geheiminisnacht!!
After all, I doubt even the inquisition (wait, the inquisition doesn´t really exist in warhammer fantasy, well, whatever its equivalent is) wouldn´t put any objections to such practice. After all, the tradition of carving faces with eerie smiles on large pumpkins and then hollowing their insides out so a candle could sit within it dates back to the time of the celts, with the main goal of scaring away evil spirits through light shining out through the carved faces , and also showing the way to their homes for the good spirits and for travelers, which I think the cults of Morr would find commendable.
On the other hand, maybe we should scratch that, given the fact that in warhammer fantasy, and particularly during geheiminisnacht, things never tend to go as intended, and we could very well ending up with a rampaging, daemon-possessed, giant pumpkin. View: https://youtu.be/QHb4Ejkd_io?si=dtO4VGZwl92LgWsC
But I think that both the muggle world and the magical world have plenty of things the empire would benefit from
In the case of the muggle world, a couple of things that come to my mind are:
Those tin cans that help preserve food and spices fresh for a long time, thus preventing them from rotting during the exportation of rare and expensive goods from foreign countries
The penicillin, which was discovered pretty much by accident, revolutionized all medicine by discovering the world's first antibiotic, or bacteria killer, and enabled the control of many infectious diseases that had previously burdened mankind.
And regarding the improvements that the magical world would bring, both to the colleges of magic and the everyday life of the common citizens of the empire:
Basically all ingredients for potions, which would make brewing them easier, and thus its sale and delivery commonplace (considering the amount of supernatural threats they have to deal with on a daily basis, specially on kislev, they really need it).
Owl delivery service, which is easier to replicate than the current mass media muggles are used to.
I would say firewhisky, burt we all know that dwarves have that already covered.
Sweets like the ones sold in places like HoneyDukes, and the ive cream you can buy in Florean Fortescue.
Honeydukes was so crowded with Hogwarts students that no one looked twice at Harry. He edged among them, looking around, and suppressed a laugh as he imagined the look that would spread over Dudley's piggy face if he could see where Harry was now.
There were shelves upon shelves of the most succulent-looking sweets imaginable. Creamy chunks of nougat, shimmering pink squares of coconut ice, fat, honey-colored toffees; hundreds of different kinds of chocolate in neat rows; there was a large barrel of Every Flavor Beans, and another of Fizzing Whizbees, the levitating sherbet balls that Ron had mentioned; along yet another wall were 'Special Effects' -- sweets: Droobles Best Blowing Gum (which filled a room with bluebell-colored bubbles that refused to pop for days), the strange, splintery Toothflossing Stringmints, tiny black Pepper Imps ('breathe fire for your friends!'), Ice Mice ('hear your teeth chatter and squeak!'), peppermint creams shaped like toads ('hop realistically in the stomach!'), fragile sugar-spun quills, and exploding bonbons.
In Diagon Alley, you can find plenty of magical gadgets whose design would be familiar enough to what you can find in marketplaces in the empire so that it doesn´t look alien.
Harry spent the long sunny days exploring the shops and eating under the brightly colored umbrellas outside cafes, where his fellow diners were showing one another their purchases ("It's a lunascope, old boy -- no more messing around with moon charts, see?") or else discussing the case of Sirius Black ("Personally, I won't let any of the children out alone until he's back in Azkaban"). Harry didn't have to do his homework under the blankets by flashlight anymore; now he could sit in the bright sunshine outside Florean Fortescue's Ice Cream Parlor, finishing all his essays with occasional help from Florean Fortescue himself, who, apart from knowing a great deal about medieval witch burnings, gave Harry free sundaes every half an hour.
Once Harry had refilled his money bag with gold Galleons, silver Sickles, and bronze Knuts from his vault at Gringotts, he had to exercise a lot of self-control not to spend the whole lot at once. He had to keep reminding himself that he had five years to go at Hogwarts, and how it would feel to ask the Dursleys for money for spellbooks, to stop himself from buying a handsome set of solid gold Gobstones (a wizarding game rather like marbles, in which the stones squirt a nasty-smelling liquid into the other player's face when they lose a point). He was sorely tempted, too, by the perfect, moving model of the galaxy in a large glass ball, which would have meant he never had to take another Astronomy lesson.
Mainly because the dragons from ulthuan tend to spend all their time sleeping, s d it's increasingly difficult to awake them. The dragons from harry potter, on the. other hand, although less powerful, are more active, which would make them greatly coveted among the dragonlords.
Prophecy, it must be said, is a bugger. Considering that, in general, they come in only two flavors; Self-fulfilling prophecy that only come true because of their existence, and obscured prophecy that are impossible to accurately interpret until the prophesied event is upon you; you're better off just not bothering at all. It is a rare prophecy that does not lead directly to suffering and misery.
Theres also the fact that, in my opinion, prophecy is based on probability. I mean, most of times, the things that are prophesied when looked at them in hindsight, are something that would have happened sooner or later, due to sheer possibility, , or at least, the kind of prophecies I remembered from the Delphi Oracle, which were ambiguous in the extreme, to the point that I actually suspect they really made them that way, so that when something that avguely resembled the events prophesied, then they would claim that the prophesy had come true. Not much different from Trelawney´s daily so called "prophecies" regarding her students (specially Harry) doom.
Not Zagreus visions, though, those are surprisingly accurate and insightful, with no margin for error, and with too many details to really be mere daydreaming. Trelawney is really going to have a field day with him.
After all, the only reason Harry and Ron couldn´t make the most of divination, is because they didn´t really pick that class to actually learn anything, but to slack off, unlike Zagreus, who, like a true Ravenclaw, enjoys learning for knowledge´s sake.
Also, despite Trelawney´s bad rep, if we are being fair, she didn´t lie to her students. Since the first day, she made very clear that divination was pretty much useless unless you were already gifted with an innate talent.
"Welcome to Divination," said Professor Trelawney, who had seated herself in a winged armchair in front of the fire. "My name is Professor Trelawney. You may not have seen me before. I find that descending too often into the hustle and bustle of the main school clouds my Inner Eye. "
Nobody said anything to this extraordinary pronouncement. Professor Trelawney delicately rearranged her shawl and continued, "So you have chosen to study Divination, the most difficult of all magical arts. I must warn you at the outset that if you do not have the Sight, there is very little I will be able to teach you. . . Books can take you only so far in this field. . . "
At these words, both Harry and Ron glanced, grinning, at Hermione, who looked startled at the news that books wouldn't be much help in this subject.
"Many witches and wizards, talented though they are in the area of loud bangs and smells and sudden disappearings, are yet unable to penetrate the veiled mysteries of the future," Professor Trelawney went on, her enormous, gleaming eyes moving from face to nervous face. "It is a Gift granted to few.
Granted, normally, seers are born, not made, unlike Zagreus, who seems to have picked a thing or two from both his association with the wind of death, and with his assimilation into Morr´s priesthood.
The thing is, Zagreus visions are normally omens of death, which are Trelawney´s favourite, so they are probably going to gent along like a house of fire, and poor harry, whose life is pretty much under constant threat, is going to find himself in the crossfire.
This remindes me of a sub-plot in "An ISOT in Grimdark" in which Celestial wizards could have visions by observing shooting stars (Or comets? I don't remember). The college patriarch stumbles on the fact that watching rocket launches (Germany was ISOTed to Warhammer) has the same effect.
I´m not sure that´s how astrology really works, honestly.
Let me explain, for what I´ve read of divination in harry potter, there are two kinds of reliable divination backed up with actual reliable results: the visions that seers are able to perceive during moments of trance, which is true Divination, as opposed to the fortunetelling that Trelawney teaches at Hogwarts , and the scrying of the cosmos that centaurs are specialized in.
For what I¨ve seen of the subjects Trelawney taught at her class, like tessomancy, or palmistry, or crystal-gazing, rely, when it comes to those who aren´t really seers, on a lot of guesswork and subjective interpretation that stems more on what the person really wants to see, rather than what there really is. In my opinion, those who try to scrutinize the furure basing their assumptions on what the tea leaves, or the tarot cards, will reveal to them, are already demonstrating that they aren´t tue seers.
Every prophecy I have seen described in the books is unexpected and unforeseen, but always accurate.
From my point of view, things like the reading of the palm and gazing into crystal balls are deeply buried in superstitious mysticism, not much more different fom all the non-magical tricks that Muggle fortune-tellers use, which are, more often than not, foggy and mystical pronouncements. They don´t hide any secret knolewgde by themselves, and the way I see it, they are mere conduits that true seers rely on to improve the sensitivity of the mind, thus making it more likely that the Seer fall into a trance, and improving the chances of producing a true Prophecy.
In Zagreus case, for some reason it would be fireworks the thing that triggers his prophetic abilities, not because the way fireworks explode reveal any momentous truth, but because it merely triggers Zagreus´ precognitive powers. That, or is just that Morr sends Zagreus visions when he feels like it, and the fireworks were really a coincidence. Anyway, I think Zagreus should test any method available in divination to see which of them helps him more to do his mental gymnastics.
And regarding the way centaurs interpret the future thrugh the observation of the stars and planets, I think that it´s closer to the way celestial wizards predict the future.
I know that you have learned the names of the planets and their moons in Astronomy,' said Firenze's calm voice, 'and that you have mapped the stars' progress through the heavens. Centaurs have unravelled the mysteries of these movements over centuries. Our findings teach us that the future may be glimpsed in the sky above us--'
'Professor Trelawney did astrology with us!' said Parvati excitedly, raising her hand in front of her so that it stuck up in the air as she lay on her back. 'Mars causes accidents and burns and things like that, and when it makes an angle to Saturn, like now--' she drew a right-angle in the air above her '--that means people need to be extra careful when handling hot things--'
'That,' said Firenze calmly, 'is human nonsense. '
Parvati's hand fell limply to her side.
'Trivial hurts, tiny human accidents,' said Firenze, as his hooves thudded over the mossy floor. These are of no more significance than the scurryings of ants to the wide universe, and are unaffected by planetary movements. '
'Professor Trelawney--' began Parvati, in a hurt and indignant voice.
'--is a human,' said Firenze simply. 'And is therefore blinkered and fettered by the limitations of your kind. '
Harry turned his head very slightly to look at Parvati. She looked very offended, as did several of the people surrounding her.
'Sybill Trelawney may have Seen, I do not know,' continued Firenze, and Harry heard the swishing of his tail again as he walked up and down before them, 'but she wastes her time, in the main, on the self-flattering nonsense humans call fortune-telling. I, however, am here to explain the wisdom of centaurs, which is impersonal and impartial. We watch the skies for the great tides of evil or change that are sometimes marked there. It may take ten years to be sure of what we are seeing. '
Firenze pointed to the red star directly above Harry.
'In the past decade, the indications have been that wizardkind is living through nothing more than a brief calm between two wars. Mars, bringer of battle, shines brightly above us, suggesting that the fight must soon break out again. How soon, centaurs may attempt to divine by the burning of certain herbs and leaves, by the observation of fume and flame . . . '
It was the most unusual lesson Harry had ever attended. They did indeed burn sage and mallowsweet there on the classroom floor, and Firenze told them to look for certain shapes and symbols in the pungent fumes, but he seemed perfectly unconcerned that not one of them could see any of the signs he described, telling them that humans were hardly ever good at this, that it took centaurs years and years to become competent, and finished by telling them that it was foolish to put too much faith in such things, anyway, because even centaurs sometimes read them wrongly. He was nothing like any human teacher Harry had ever had. His priority did not seem to be to teach them what he knew, but rather to impress upon them that nothing, not even centaurs' knowledge, was foolproof.
My take of this, is that centaurs see the universe as some kind of cosmic tapestry, within whose threads the secrets of the future can be unravelled, for those who are keen on spotting its subleties, and the deeper truths behind mere appearances
I am not expert in the lore of heavens, but it seems to be pretty similar to the method employed by Celestial Wizards in their particular branch of divination, only they get actual visions. So I don´t think that rocket launches would cause that celestial wizards fell into a prophetic trance, if we are being faithful to the confirmed canon.
Now I´m curious wether celestial wizards and centaurs would be open to exchange knowledge, that is, assuming the wizards from the colleges don´t go into a murdering spree upon the sight of beastmen.
Also, I wonder if centaur´s hair would be a core favorably aligned to Azyr.
I thought that Archaon, when clad with the six treasures of chaos, was prettty much unstoppable, to the point that if a mountain was thrown at him, would do nothing but derail him the time it took him to carve a path out of the mountain.
Theres also the fact that, in my opinion, prophecy is based on probability. I mean, most of times, the things that are prophesied when looked at them in hindsight, are something that would have happened sooner or later, due to sheer possibility, , or at least, the kind of prophecies I remembered from the Delphi Oracle, which were ambiguous in the extreme, to the point that I actually suspect they really made them that way, so that when something that avguely resembled the events prophesied, then they would claim that the prophesy had come true. Not much different from Trelawney´s daily so called "prophecies" regarding her students (specially Harry) doom.
The 'ambiguous in the extreme' were still specific enough to be interpreted accurately after the fact. Which is why I explicitly called that out. If they didn't come close to right regularly, they wouldn't have gotten the credentials that they did.
Trelawney notably takes a shotgun approach, instead, with the assumption that someone will die eventually.
