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The Shadow of Old Transgressions (Homeworld/Mass Effect Crossover Quest)

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DaLintyGuy said:
That said, there is no indication or reason that the Missile Cruisers would be affected by a Siege Cannon shot aimed at the dreadnoughts? Which are in direct contact with friendly mobile elements mind, so...
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If we look at the initial blitz, where our siege cannon shot was aimed at the Carriers, this led to the following outcome for the Missile cruisers.

Most of the missile cruisers are drifting and a few have been destroyed outright.
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This from a shot that wasnt even aimed at them!

Which is why, of our mobile elements deployed first, I'm committing Valerius and Oracle, since Oracle can keep up and Valerius has a defense field which can help shelter the small flotilla, so they don't get completely wrecked by splash.
 
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Rivenscryr said:
This from a shot that wasnt even aimed at them!
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Carriers and Missile ships are approximately the same role, ie hanging back to provide ranged support. Dreadnoughts and Missile ships are going to be part of two separate task forces rather than loosely grouped for mutual support.

Which honestly makes me less willing to lob one of those shots near our allies, even if that was likely to be a "maximum strength" fire mission rather than at maximum range. No need to break the defense and let a suicidal dreadnought begin infecting the civilian station(s) we are trying to rescue.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
That said, there is no indication or reason that the Missile Cruisers would be affected by a Siege Cannon shot aimed at the dreadnoughts? Which are in direct contact with friendly mobile elements mind, so...
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My take on the Void Wraith's current position is that we have the Flagship and the Dreadnoughts taking the brunt of the Guardian Fleet's fire, with the Missile Cruisers lurking behind them out of the Taiidan's direct line of fire.

... That could actually work in our favor. When we make our strike, if the Missile Cruisers are between the heavier capital ships and our position, then the Dreadnoughts and Flagship won't be able to easily fire on us. Of course... that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't shoot through their own Cruisers.

Eitjer way, has me realizing that sleepy 3am me kind of overlooked the fact that siege cannons have massive amounts of aoe boom. Those rounds aren't addressed to a person, they're labeled 'To Whom it may Concern.'
 
Geas said:
Eitjer way, has me realizing that sleepy 3am me kind of overlooked the fact that siege cannons have massive amounts of aoe boom. Those rounds aren't addressed to a person, they're labeled 'To Whom it may Concern.'
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"I don't want to see that grid cube any more."

But yes, directly targeting the dreadnoughts is going to kill more Guardians than Wraiths. Probably more Guardian combat power than Wraith combat power at that.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
"I don't want to see that grid cube any more."

But yes, directly targeting the dreadnoughts is going to kill more Guardians than Wraiths. Probably more Guardian combat power than Wraith combat power at that.
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Another good reason to have Ulysses hold off on firing that monster unless and until a golden opportunity arrives that will maximize damage to the Void Wraiths while minimizing damage to our flotilla and the Guardian Fleet. It's bad enough that we have a LOT of the galaxy's bogeymen on our side (one of the reasons why I voted against getting Rachni help just yet).

Not sure that I want to know what the galaxy is beginning to think of our flotilla. 😅
 
Geas said:
Not sure that I want to know what the galaxy is beginning to think of our flotilla. 😅
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"Bentusi diplomacy is... Advanced."

Though I do kind of want to see/write the reaction to the death of our Kushan contact.
"He died in battle against great odds, beside fellow warriors, in the defense of life itself. A glorious end worthy of remembrance."
 
We have, what, Volus from Irune (bankers), Kushan (invading barbarian tribe), Keepers (environmental hazards), and Kadeshi (also environmental hazards).

Quite the eclectic mix, I agree, though the Kadeshi, Kushan, and Irune ships are all small and upgraded with Bentusi tech.
 
[x] Integrated Strike Denial
-[x] Harassment force leaves hyperspace "behind" the remaining Wraith elements in order to engage the Missile Carriers with bombardment missiles and strike craft.
-[x] Our naval assets should stay combined in one task force. The hostile Carriers are unaccounted for and are likely to "fold in" on our flanking maneuver utilizing their exotic drives so Ulysses is tasked with denying them the critical mass they need to overwhelm us, while we need the protection of our defense fields from the dreadnoughts until a missile barrage can destroy it.
-[x] The enemy is likely to pull something out of their corrupted shells, or uncorrupted Wraiths could show up from the Monolith. Either way, there is not much farther we can plan for at this point.

With discussion showing why we would not want to try to drop operational level weapons in proximity to allied personnel, let's not drop an operational level weapon in proximity to friendly personnel.
 
Okay, got my idea - taking some inspiration from both @DaLintyGuy and @Rivenscryr to try and come up with a happy medium.

[X] Flanking Assault
-[X] Hyperspace in behind the Void Wraiths position, and have the Slingers fire a massed barrage targeting the damaged Dreadnoughts, followed up by Ulysses's siege cannon targeting the rear-most Dreadnought - this ideally will minimize the risk to the Guardian Fleet and catch the Missile Cruisers in the blast zone. Valerius leads Oracle 13, the Raawan, our Slingers and our Shepard Destroyer in control of a strikecraft wing to assault the Dreadnoughts and Flagship. Oracle 13 uses it's interdictor - as much to keep them from fleeing as to hopefully keep the Carriers from dropping right into the thick of the fight if and when they attempt to reinforce the Void Wraiths.
-[X] Laverna assaults the Missile Cruisers alongside the Kwan and Ulysses and as many strike craft as she can direct - they should be able to mop up what's left of them fairly quickly. Ulysses holds off on firing his Siege Cannon a second time (assuming that it's still functional after the first shot given our jury-rigged repairs and can be recharged or repaired quickly enough to fire a second time), saving it for if the Carriers arrive or if an excellent shot on one of the Dreadnoughts or the Flagship that won't endanger allies presents itself - if Oracle's interdiction is effective on their FTL, they'll show up well on the outskirts of the battle rather than in it, meaning Ulysses should be able to take a killshot at whichever Carrier shows up without endangering allies.
 
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Geas said:
Okay, got my idea - taking some inspiration from both @DaLintyGuy and @Rivenscryr to try and come up with a happy medium.
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Reasonably satisfied with this. Perhaps amend the bit about "saving [the Siege Cannon's second shot] for if the Carriers arrive" to include "or if a particularly good opportunity to finish off a Wraith dreadnought/flagship arises, without overly endangering allies" (since finishing off another dread would be quite nice - they are bigger, meaner carriers, after all, albeit with no emergency disengage), great!

[X] Flanking Assault
 
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SerGregness said:
Do we have a count on the number of Wraith missile cruisers remaining? How about their formation? Would it be feasible to knock them out of commission? Perhaps by using the slinger's cruise missiles to herd them into a group for massive Siege Cannon damage?
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There are eight missile cruisers remaining. They are not close enough together for a single siege shot to get them all.

DaLintyGuy said:
@Arcanestomper how much time would we need for Oracle to build a hyperspace inhibitor meant to stop alteration of the speed of light in a volume (which may or may not increase the yield of matter/antimatter annihilation reactions, incidentally, if we want to use that somehow as a type of mine) rather than relying on their one meant to destabilize quantum waveforms?
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Oracle's hyperspace inhibitor is internal. And there's basically only one kind which is an artificial gravity generator. Oracle stopped the carrier by increasing local gravity by a lot in a very specific area. It doesn't strictly affect the alteration of light speed.

You wouldn't be able to build a bigger one without retreating and building that construction bay.

DaLintyGuy said:
Were the Missile Cruisers the FTL equipped ships? I don't recall. If not, hitting them with the missiles and hoping a dreadnought tries to faceroll Valerius' damaged cruiser so as to get off a maximum powered hit with the Siege Cannon-

Actually no, they saw Ulysses do that before, zog. Uh, use Ulysses as an area denial so as to keep the dreadnoughts away from our fleet so we can reload our missiles?
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Missile cruisers do not seem to have the emergency bug out drives.

TheOmnimercurial said:
We also have a new tactic of overloading their FTL Inhibitors.

Could we try that again? Who would be more specced to do so and how many of us could do that?
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Only Oracle has a hyperspace Inhibitor. It's one of the research options you never pursued.

Rivenscryr said:
@Arcanestomper, what do our recon drones tell us about the current positioning of the Wraiths and Guardians? How closely are they engaged and are there any discrete groupings?
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The Wraith flagship is in the center of a triangle formed by the wraith dreadnoughts. They are blocking the Guardians from getting to the missile cruisers which are in a rough wall behind them. I should mention that there are some Wraith Interceptors in the space escorting the missile cruisers. The dreadnoughts are still producing more, just at a greatly reduced rate. They don't have enough to use them offensively.

For their part the Guardians are attempting to fight the dreadnoughts with a squadrons of heavy cruisers while bomber wings try to flank around the wraith blockade get to the missile cruisers.

If you were to use the siege cannon against the dreadnoughts you could probably get one dreadnought if you avoided the guardians, or one dreadnought and the flagship if you were willing to risk them as well.
 
Arcanestomper said:
It doesn't strictly affect the alteration of light speed.
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But if we had annihilation reaction weapons (we don't, probably) using a tiny piece of antimatter in a number of mines would prevent streaking (look, I don't think an official verb was given for using this "alteration drive" was given) as if they are initiated inside the altered space time created by the Carrier the "Mass times Speed of Light Squared" is going to put out a much increased value.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
But if we had annihilation reaction weapons (we don't, probably) using a tiny piece of antimatter in a number of mines would prevent streaking (look, I don't think an official verb was given for using this "alteration drive" was given) as if they are initiated inside the altered space time created by the Carrier the "Mass times Speed of Light Squared" is going to put out a much increased value.
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To be fair you can just park a conventional quantum charge to prevent streaking. That's how you've programmed your missiles to deal with the carriers. Surround them from every side.
 
Arcanestomper said:
To be fair you can just park a conventional quantum charge to prevent streaking. That's how you've programmed your missiles to deal with the carriers. Surround them from every side.
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True. But if you sprinkled a bunch of buckyballs (carbon allotrope whose natural EM repulsion might be up to the task of holding a small amount of antimatter) across a volume you can perform area denial rather than keeping an already present ship from running away, as normally the amount present is negligible but the increased yield from the Mass Effect increasing the speed of light could conceivably make it very dangerous to blunder through.
 
Arcanestomper said:
There are eight missile cruisers remaining. They are not close enough together for a single siege shot to get them all.

...

If you were to use the siege cannon against the dreadnoughts you could probably get one dreadnought if you avoided the guardians, or one dreadnought and the flagship if you were willing to risk them as well.
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Hmm...with forces arrayed like that, it feels like the best use of the siege cannon would be to take out one of the dreadnoughts, as per @Geas, since while damaging that abomination of a flagship is tempting, its best not to put the guardians at undue risk.

Would the Missile Cruisers be close enough to be temporarily set adrift as per the initial blitz though?
 
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Arcanestomper said:
There are eight missile cruisers remaining. They are not close enough together for a single siege shot to get them all.
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Hmm, not even if we try to force them into closer quarters?

Rivenscryr said:
Hmm...with forces arrayed like that, it feels like the best use of the siege cannon would be to take out one of the dreadnoughts, as per @Geas, since while damaging that abomination of a flagship is tempting, its best not to put the guardians at undue risk.

Would the Missile Cruisers be close enough to be temporarily set adrift as per the initial blitz though?
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The dreadnaughts are an uncertain target. We might destroy one, or we might take another subversion beam to the face and be out of the fight again, getting nothing done. The missile cruisers are, as much as this can be said of anything in the current battle, something we can more or less be guaranteed to get good damage on. I'd wager that clearing the field of the missile cruisers would be at least as good as one dreadnaught kill, and probably more if they need the standoff capability to prosecute the siege at all. At worst, maybe one of the dreadnaughts pulls back first thing and wards us off of our attack, but even then we've broken up their formation a bit.


[X] Heaven's Net casts wide. Though it's coarse, nothing slips through.
-[X] With their point defense degraded the missile cruisers will either have to tank hits from our slingers, or try to dodge. We launch a full volley at the Wraith cruiser wall from maximum distance, then Laverna and Oracle 13 each take half the slingers, and jump to points on the opposite side of their formation, and launch more missiles, so that the Wraith wall has missiles coming at them from the 3 points on a triangle all synched to hit at the same time. Valerius and Ulysses stand by with charged hyperspace drives and Siege Cannon to blast the biggest clump of Wraith ships, whether they try to move away from the siege, or towards their flagship.
 
Geas said:
assuming that it's still functional after the first shot given our jury-rigged repairs and can be recharged or repaired quickly enough to fire a second time
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We did the research project to properly integrate it, so it will at least be usable again. Whether it will be usable in time, or if there is some other issue given our harassment force wasn't willing to use it against isolated single targets or the escorting Carrier, is a different question.
 
The challenge I see is that the dreadnoughts are the bigger threat, but are also harder to kill than the missile cruisers. With the amount of damage we have taken I think we can't afford to split our forces very much in case the carriers come back (risking defeat in detail), and we need to take damage that the Wraiths can do off the board quickly. I think that means that we either need quick kills on a few of the dreadnoughts, or kill the missile cruisers quickly so that the Guardians can stop trying to flank, and just focus on the dreadnoughts. It sounds like the siege cannon can't take out many of the cruisers in one shot because they aren't grouped enough, so I am leaning towards targeting the dreads.

[X] Flanking Assault
-[X] Hyperspace in behind the Void Wraiths position, and have the Slingers fire a massed barrage targeting the damaged Dreadnoughts, followed up by Ulysses's siege cannon targeting the rear-most Dreadnought - this ideally will minimize the risk to the Guardian Fleet and catch the Missile Cruisers in the blast zone. Valerius leads Oracle 13, the Raawan, our Slingers and our Shepard Destroyer in control of a strikecraft wing to assault the Dreadnoughts and Flagship. Oracle 13 uses it's interdictor - as much to keep them from fleeing as to hopefully keep the Carriers from dropping right into the thick of the fight if and when they attempt to reinforce the Void Wraiths.
-[X] Laverna assaults the Missile Cruisers alongside the Kwan and Ulysses and as many strike craft as she can direct - they should be able to mop up what's left of them fairly quickly. Ulysses holds off on firing his Siege Cannon a second time (assuming that it's still functional after the first shot given our jury-rigged repairs and can be recharged or repaired quickly enough to fire a second time), saving it for if the Carriers arrive or if an excellent shot on one of the Dreadnoughts or the Flagship that won't endanger allies presents itself - if Oracle's interdiction is effective on their FTL, they'll show up well on the outskirts of the battle rather than in it, meaning Ulysses should be able to take a killshot at whichever Carrier shows up without endangering allies.

I am voting for this plan for now, though I am not sure about the part where Laverna can just "mop up" the cruisers.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
I am voting for this plan for now, though I am not sure about the part where Laverna can just "mop up" the cruisers.
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Laverna won't exactly be alone - the plan accounts for her having Ulysses and the Kwan in her corner along with her drone strike craft. I'm just hoping that the dice are in their favor if my plan does win the vote. Also, keep in mind that the Taiidan Guardian Fleet is still very much in this fight and (hopefully) should be able to capitalize on whatever openings that we can make for them.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
I think that means that we either need quick kills on a few of the dreadnoughts, or kill the missile cruisers quickly so that the Guardians can stop trying to flank, and just focus on the dreadnoughts.
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I mean, the cruisers are individually softer targets, less threatening to us, and still represent a valuable asset lost by the Wraith. Even if we don't end up on my exact plan, going for the cruisers first seems like the clear choice.
 
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