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The Shadow of Old Transgressions (Homeworld/Mass Effect Crossover Quest)

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Arcanestomper said:
Do any of you have any general battle plans you'd like to see carried out?
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Harrassing the Wraiths? The aforementioned "hit and hyper" method of using Ulysses as a beat stick against located repair docks/ships down for repairs/ships directing resourcing operations, I suppose.

Unless you mean for voting options after the harassment, at which point we will probably try to kill the Flagship as it attempts to engage the defenders more closely now that the attrition victory is in doubt and Taiidan fleets are possibly responding. Doing some socializing with our Keeper friends as an Unbound who can actually keep up with them. Deciding if we want to sell the subspace device to the Council for phat stacks or technology. Doing Science to our T-Mat wreckage as a destressing option given we need to rebuild our ion cannons anyway.
 
Arcanestomper said:
I'm actually a bit stuck on what to have you do after the next part of the battle. By which I mean which voting options I should present.

Do any of you have any general battle plans you'd like to see carried out?
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I don't have the sort of behind the scenes information to really lay out detailed plans, but I've played more than my share of ranked RTS, so to brainstorm a bit in that light:

When you're harassing, what you're hoping to do is hamper the opponents buildup and get ahead of them. What you do with that is usually either set up a timing where you can take advantage of their vulnerability to inflict big damage (kill a bunch of Zerg drones, and when they spend larvae to replace them, those larvae can't also become fighting units and so they won't have enough forces to stop you from rolling over them with a follow up attack), or alternately there's the mantra "when you're ahead, get more ahead" and instead of trying to exploit the enemy's weakness to get in big damage, you do something like immediately expand to two or three more bases and/or tech up to endgame units knowing they can't muster the forces to stop you.

Now as far as those apply to our situation, I think it mostly comes down to how bad the Wraiths need these resources. It's entirely possible that we have a completely successful harassment operation on paper, but they were just scavenging opportunistically and didn't ever need the RUs. Assuming they need them, we took enough of a beating in that first round that our ability to capitalize on a weakness of theirs is probably mostly leaning on the Siege Cannon still? Probably our best damage-dealing outcome is being threatening enough to pull juicy target ships out of the main Wraith formation for Ulysses to dunk on piecemeal, but I doubt that works more than once or twice. Of course, if the Wraith split their forces poorly, that could give the Taiidan an opening to inflict some damage on their own. Ultimately, there are four 'regular' flagships, and the one modified ship that we fought before which are the big linchpins of the battle, but we might be reduced to just cutting off enough of their support assets that they withdraw. As for getting more ahead being separated from our big construction resources could actually be kind of a pain in the ass here, because we could normally use a successful harassment operation to let our own harvesters go to town and do a counter encirclement if they were still out here with us. They could theoretically build up a force at the defensive station and mass for a breakout sortie but we'd have to deal with getting our own harvesters past the siege lines.

Hopefully some of that helped. :V
 
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Wipe them out, all of them!

More realistically, our strategy going forward might depend a bit on what happens next. We've scattered the carriers, destroyed a vast number of interceptors and escorts, and damaged/destroyed quite a few of the missile cruisers, but the enemy is still combat effective, hence our decision to harass the wraiths and keep them from recovering resources/rebuilding as best as possible.

I'd imagine after seeing what the Wraiths and the defenders of the Grand Conclave do next (do the Wraiths press an attack, attempting to break through at point in the line? Do they pull back? Does the flagship fire off its subversion beam at some of the defense stations?), we'd have a better idea of what our options are!

If they do commit to an attack, that could be an opportunity for us to commit our forces and and strike at one of the remaining elements (cruisers, a dreadnought or two, or focus fire on the flagship) while they're focused. Otherwise, continued harassment is always an option, as is possibly being a diversion to draw away the Wraith's attention and allow our the Conclave to counterattack.
 
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Turn 8.4: Hunting Strays
  • Threadmarks

    • Core Space

    Arak System
    The Grand Conclave

    You let the others take the point in the next phase as you are busy reconstructing your bow. As such you turn to your limited on board construction facilities. You aren't in any way a carrier, but you have a small hangar and a fabricator for building resource drones. You build a few and they start stripping away twisted armor and scrapped components from your front section.

    While they work you analyze the sensor data and look for signs of resource belts. It's a fairly easy task because asteroids don't try to be stealthy and move in predictable orbits. A lone resource drone scouts the nearest location and reports it to have a pleasingly large asteroid for harvesting so you burn your way towards it with the slingers forming a ring around you. It doesn't take long before you are joined by a small squadron of acolytes. You aren't defenseless even without repairs, but Laverna doesn't want the same thing happening to you as the rest of the fleet is planning to pull on the Wraiths.

    Because while you've been busy with repairs Laverna and Ulysses have been organizing a search. Using the same sensor data as you, they've identified all the likely nearby resource belts and sent recon drones screaming outwards to check for Wraith activity.

    Space is big and there are lots of asteroids to check so it takes a while to find anything. The first two waves find nothing. The third wave finds a civilian mining ship that was unfortunate enough to be caught outside the defensive sphere, but fortunate enough not to be found by the wraiths. Laverna sends it your way along with a few more acolytes, and you quickly put the crew of terrified Taiidan to work helping you strip the asteroid.

    Finally the fourth wave finds what Laverna and Ulysses have been looking for. A wraith ship is stripping an asteroid for resources. It isn't a class you've ever seen before, but there is no mistaking it for anything. A bulky ovoid shell makes up the center with manipulators splayed out in front of it and strands of crimson matter hanging off it. The sensor logs Ulysses shares with you reminds you of pictures you've seen in the archives of shelled sea creatures. One that has died and gone to rot.

    There's no telling what this wraith ship might be capable of. It looks like it's fulfilling the role of a mining ship, but that means nothing. After all, you're fulfilling the role of a mining ship right now, and any raiders trying to mess with you would get a nasty surprise. So instead of sending a handful of acolytes to destroy it, Ulysses goes after it himself. With him is the last remaining shepherd and the Raawan and Kwan. Oracle 13 remains with Laverna while she continues checking the remaining resource belts.

    The resulting fight proves somewhat anticlimactic. The Wraith resource ship does prove to have weapons, but they are only two small banks of railguns. Suitable for dealing with pirates or a few fighters. It's also fairly heavily armored, but it's nothing Ulysses can't handle. Especially with the Raawan and Kwan providing additional fire support.

    The fleet keeps searching as you start to replace your field capacitors. Another two wraith resource ships are found and destroyed, but the fourth one has a guard of interceptors. It's not enough to stop Ulysses, but it keeps your flicker friends too busy to help. Laverna moves to your position so Oracle 13 can go assist him instead.

    That's fortunate because the sixth resource ship is being escorted by a carrier, and that would likely have been too much for Ulysses without breaking out the siege cannon. Instead the fight is short and brutal as he and Oracle flank the carrier while the Raawan, the Kwan, and a squadron of acolytes from the shepherd keeps the carrier's interceptors off them. Unfortunately without your defensive field there is nothing to stop the carrier's rail guns from savaging your friends. It's at this point that Ulysses falters. His Hurricane body is built for long range fire not broadside duels. Fortunately Oracle 13 is more than capable of picking up the slack.

    The Keeper destroyer draws the carrier's attention by the simple expedient of charging into extreme close range and pounding the wraith vessel. With Ulysses still shooting it from afar the Wraith Carrier is soon heavily damaged. It tries to engage its emergency ftl escape drive, but Oracle 13 has been analyzing the wraith data you provided and has worked out a counter. Oracle overcharges its hyperspace inhibitor and forcibly pins the carrier in place. The struggle between them is fierce and space starts to twisting under the competing exotic forces, but not for long as Ulysses finally gets a bead on the carrier's power core and blows it up in a flurry of ion cannon fire.

    After some discussion the fleet decides that it's probably time to quit the hunt. Laverna keeps sending out recon drones to look for wraith ships, but if that one was being escorted by a carrier, then the others likely are as well. And while the destruction of a carrier is excellent, it came at the expense of damage to Ulysses that won't be easy to repair. Or at least won't be easy to repair if it keeps accumulating.

    So instead your two groups rendezvous and turn your attention back to the main battle. Since she has them out anyway Laverna sends a wing of recon drones to investigate what is going on with the Wraith dreadnoughts.

    As the sensor data comes in you quickly realize that your harassment had two effects. First the main wraith fleet has not been able to replace any of their escorts or interceptors. It is down to just the dreadnoughts and missile cruisers. Which brings you to the second effect. You know the carriers could have made it back by now, but it seems the wraiths sent them to protect their resource harvesters instead of calling them back to participate in the main battle.

    Unfortunately that's the good news. Between the missile cruisers and the dreadnoughts the wraiths have managed to break through the second defensive sphere. The massive defensive stations are now just clouds of debris interlaced with clouds of reprisal mines to keep the wraiths from having too easy a time salvaging their hulks. The wraith are now busy assaulting the third and final defensive sphere. All that stands between them and the conclave are a handful of defense stations and the Guardian fleet, which is now actively engaging the wraiths. You hope that Aurora and Iuno were able to fully outfit them in time.

    It didn't all go the wraiths way though. The dreadnought you damaged before seems to have been destroyed. And two more of them have taken what looks to be significant damage. Unfortunately the missile cruisers appear to be fine, as does the wraith flagship.

    For your part your own slingers are now reporting 100% readiness in all missile tubes. Laverna has helped you repair your armor and bow ion cannons as best she can, but neither is fully functional. Neither of you have large enough fabricators to make an armor plate large enough for your frame so you are left with a patchwork of smaller ones along your bow. For similar reasons your bow ion cannons are now using spliced together power cables intended for your secondaries instead of their normal power networks. They won't be able to maintain their full charges. Still it's better than it was, and at least your defensive field is fully functional.

    [ ] Plan your next action. (Write In)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Do we have a count on the number of Wraith missile cruisers remaining? How about their formation? Would it be feasible to knock them out of commission? Perhaps by using the slinger's cruise missiles to herd them into a group for massive Siege Cannon damage?
     
    I believe our plan could reasonably start with "it would be a shame", likely followed by Siege Cannon.

    @Arcanestomper can we get a warbook for keeping track of enemy vessel appearance and capabilities? Other than acting as a carrier I forget what the Carriers look like.
     
    Well... hrmmm.... time for a strategy (and to hope that the dice are in our favor this time).

    The good part here is that the Wraith's defenses have been cut to the bone, and I think most of us can see that this seems like a good opportunity for a classic flank and spank .

    *steeples fingers, looks thoughtful*

    Alright, I'm thinking: hit them from the rear and start things off with an opening salvo via our Slingers targeting the dreadnoughts and immediately follow up that first salvo with Ulysses's siege cannon; a solid one-two punch that should soften up those dreadnoughts enough for Ulysses to do appreciable damage to them. Follow this up with Laverna hammering those missile cruisers with every Cherub bomber she can send at them - have our little explosive bundles of joy prioritize targeting the engines and/or missile tubes, because at the very least we can distract them with the very real threat of crippling their maneuverability and/or weapon systems. Without escorts, they'll have a hell of a time of it, especially if we have our Slingers continue taking potshots at them the entire time.

    From there, focus on assisting the Guardian Fleet in mopping up the dreadnoughts one at a time, surviving, and either taking down that flagship or driving it off... which on the surface sounds terrible, but with our flotilla providing such a big and flashy distraction, if the Taiidan have any guts left at all (and sufficient bloodlust for revenge), they'll take advantage and shift from defense to offense - either the Flagship will find itself on the backfoot fairly quickly, or even better it'll make the mistake of getting distracted by us and attempt to drive us off, leaving itself open to Taiidan retaliation (highly unlikely it'll be that dumb - more likely it'll cut its losses and flee along with any surviving ships). Oracle 13, the Raawan, the Kwan, Ulysses and ourself should focus fire on the dreadnoughts to kill them as fast as possible before any of the other carriers return, so we can dogpile that Flagship.

    Not the greatest plan, but it's 3 am and I should've been asleep over an hour ago. I'll think more on it later.
     
    @Arcanestomper how much time would we need for Oracle to build a hyperspace inhibitor meant to stop alteration of the speed of light in a volume (which may or may not increase the yield of matter/antimatter annihilation reactions, incidentally, if we want to use that somehow as a type of mine) rather than relying on their one meant to destabilize quantum waveforms?
     
    So the Wraiths have 2 significantly damaged dreadnoughts, 1 relatively untouched dreadnought, a flagship, and a decent amount of missile cruisers.

    I'm generally in agreement with the broad strokes of @Geas' plan, and will try to contribute more when I wake up in the morning, but my initial thought is that we should first focus on the wounded dreadnoughts with our opening moves. Given that 2 of the dreadnoughts are already significantly damaged, a blow from the siege cannon + salvos from our Slingers would probably be able to destroy them, after which we can turn our attention to the missile cruisers.
     
    Rivenscryr said:
    agreement
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    There are two ways to look at this. Unfortunately the actual philosophy has been a while, so I'm just going to mention that we made the front fall off a dreadnought before we got the advanced missiles, so I'm a bit more in favor of clobbering the missile cruisers before mobbing the injured capital vessels now that they are devoid of escorts, support, and hope.
     
    I do figure that the Siege Cannon is going to do a lot of splash damage. Enough to leave most of the cruisers drifting for a bit again, which leaves them vulnerable not just to us but the Guardian fleet.

    The dreadnoughts need a hair more damage than that to fully take out, and I'd love to take two subversion beams off the field.
     
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    So I suppose then my question becomes this: when we flank the Void Wraith's position and unleash our initial barrage of Slinger Missiles and siege cannon fire, do we prioritize targeting the Missile Cruisers or the Dreadnoughts?

    Now that I've got some sleep, the Dreadnoughts are the greater threat, obviously. But I'm just not certain if we can mission-kill a respectable number of them as easily as we can the Missile Cruisers, but with all the Lingers we have, that's a hell of a lot of missiles and the Void Wraiths are, very unfortunately, currently severely lacking in point-defenses that would protect them from such a barrage. It might be overkill for the Missile Cruisers though; that much I can readily acknowledge.

    On the other hand, Laverna with support from the Kwan and/or Raawan and a few wings of drone strikecraft *should* be able to spank those Cruisers, the way that I see it, which means dedicating the lion's share of that entire barrage of missiles and siege cannon fire to the Dreadnoughts is also a valid option. Might not kill any of them, but we would be very likely to successfully cripple one or more - the vast majority of ships in both Homeworld and Mass Effect mount their drives on the aft section of the main hull, and in Homeworld 2 I always did think that a capital ship's drives made for *wonderful* targets for crippling their maneuverability. Of course, this assumes that Ulysses doesn't get lucky and lands a direct hit with his Siege cannon on one of those Dreadnoughts. As @Rivenscryr reminds, that thing comes with massive amounts of splash damage. A direct hit with that thing at the right range could decisively end a multi-player match in HW:C by wrecking an opponent's command ship so thoroughly that they'd be unable to recover and defend themselves from a follow-up conventional attack.
     
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    Geas said:
    So I suppose then my question becomes this: when we flank the Void Wraith's position and unleash our initial barrage of Slinger Missiles and siege cannon fire, do we prioritize targeting the Missile Cruisers or the Dreadnoughts?
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    Were the Missile Cruisers the FTL equipped ships? I don't recall. If not, hitting them with the missiles and hoping a dreadnought tries to faceroll Valerius' damaged cruiser so as to get off a maximum powered hit with the Siege Cannon-

    Actually no, they saw Ulysses do that before, zog. Uh, use Ulysses as an area denial so as to keep the dreadnoughts away from our fleet so we can reload our missiles?
     
    DaLintyGuy said:
    Were the Missile Cruisers the FTL equipped ships? I don't recall. If not, hitting them with the missiles and hoping a dreadnought tries to faceroll Valerius' damaged cruiser so as to get off a maximum powered hit with the Siege Cannon-

    Actually no, they saw Ulysses do that before, zog. Uh, use Ulysses as an area denial so as to keep the dreadnoughts away from our fleet so we can reload our missiles?
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    As I recall, I think it's only the carriers and the Flagship that have the exotic FTL drives. But you raise a good point - they know that Ulysses's main gun is dangerous. It's why I was thinking of hitting them with a missile barrage via the Slingers first.

    Hmmmm...

    You raise a good point. That is easily our most powerful weapon, but making use of it a second time in this engagement could be tricky. Ulysses could end up a priority target the moment we engage again, and he's not exactly in the best condition right now.

    Maybe have him hold off on firing immediately, you think? The moment we attack, the Void Wraiths are going to be between us and the Guardian Fleet, and we can't assume that they're stupid or willing enough to fight to the death here. There's a possibility that they'll cut and run. At the same time, there's a non-zero risk of one or more of those carriers showing up to reinforce them and turning this battle even uglier.

    Having Ulysses save that shot for a magical moment rather than unleashing it at the beginning of the battle could help swing things in our favor - the enemy might assume that he was damaged enough that he can't fire it again. 🤔
     
    We also have a new tactic of overloading their FTL Inhibitors.

    Could we try that again? Who would be more specced to do so and how many of us could do that?
     
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    Wraith Ships
  • Informational
    • Wraith Interceptor
    Weapons: Dual light rail guns
    Special: Fast, Armored
    Armor: Light

    The standard wraith fighter was clearly based on the Turanic raiders. Given what Valerius knows about the Wraiths history it is likely that the first few squadrons he and the fleet encountered were in fact subverted Turanic raiders up armored with Wraith technology. However in the ensuing campaign the Wraiths have apparently completely subsumed the interceptors into their own doctrine both completely a total conversion to their technology and allowing the interceptors to be built with needing to subvert any raiders.

    (It looks like a Turanic Interceptor covered in black armor.)

    Subverted Frigate
    Weapons: Four missile pods, Light rail gun
    Special: Fast
    Armor: Medium

    The Wraith appear to have rounded out their fleets by subverting Turanic raiders, and these frigates make up the majority of their known escorts. They have a number of missile pods they use to fight fighters and saturation bombardments on larger ships along with a single rail gun that seems to have been added by the wraiths after the subversion. Unlike the interceptors the wraiths don't appear to have fully incorporated the design into their technology.

    (It looks like a larger version of Turanic Missile Corvette covered in black armor.)

    Wraith Carrier
    Weapons: Quintet Rail Guns, Turreted rail guns
    Special: Hangars, Emergency Disengage, Subversion Rounds
    Armor: Heavy

    The first major wraith capital faced by the Bentusi. It has large diamoid frame with a series of manipulators at the front. Each manipulator is stipped with a capital grade rail cannon. The carrier has several hangar bays along its sides and a main bay that is normally guarded by the manipualtors.

    (It looks like a Reaper capital ship.)

    Wraith Frigate
    Weapons: Six Light rail guns
    Special: Fast, Armored
    Armor: Medium

    The Wraith have their own frigate class. It appears very similar to the wraith carrier, but is much smaller and mounts much lighter rail guns. Their exact performance is not well document as the wraiths seem to have a very limited supply of this frigate and capability to build more.

    (Looks like a smaller reaper.)


    Wraith Missile Cruiser
    Weapons: 12 missile bays, Turreted rail guns
    Special: Armored, Subversion Missiles
    Armor: heavy

    The missile cruiser itself is relatively unthreatening ship with little in the way of offensive weaponry. It's main threat is the ability to build and launch subversion missiles. These missiles contain a virulent payload of Crimson that can infect and subvert ships in a matter of minutes. Missile Cruisers are fairly tough, but appear to be something of a jury rigged version of the wraith carrier.

    (Looks like a reaper without the tentacles.)


    Wraith Dreadnought
    Weapons: Quintet Heavy Rail Cannons, Turreted rail cannons, Subversion Beam
    Special: Hangars, Subversion Rounds
    Armor: Super Heavy

    A wraith dreadnought is basically a larger version of a wraith carrier. It contains similar weapons, but in heavier versions and larger quantities. It's most lethal aspect however is the addition of an additional energy weapon, known as the subversion beam, that can both deal massive damage across a large swath of the battle space and deliver Crimson infection particles that will rapidly assimilate any surviving ships.

    (It looks like a much larger Reaper capital ship.)

    Wraith Flagship
    Weapons: ???
    Special: ???
    Armor: Super Heavy

    The wraith dreadnought that participated in the siege of Irune was heavily damaged, but not outright destroyed. In the time between that battle and the Siege of the Conclave it appears to have been heavily taken over with Crimson matter both enlarging it and providing additional unknown capabilities. It likely has many of the same capabilities as a dreadnought, but this has not been confirmed.

    (It looks like a much larger Reaper capital ship that's also been taken over by the Beast Virus.)

    Wraith Resource Harvester
    Weapons: Light Rail guns
    Special: Resource Hub
    Armor: Medium

    This medium sized ships appears to be the wraith answer to harvesting resources in the field. It has a few light rail guns, but relies on escorts to protect it from anything more than a few fighters.

    (If a Reaper is a squid then this is a nautilus.)
     
  • Informational
    • Geas said:
    Having Ulysses save that shot for a magical moment rather than unleashing it at the beginning of the battle could help swing things in our favor - the enemy might assume that he was damaged enough that he can't fire it again. 🤔
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    That was why I was suggesting we create that magical moment. With their point defense severely degraded, we might be able to get the missile cruisers to try dodging the missiles, and if the barrage is formed properly, their most natural dodges would group them up for Siege Cannon splash damage.
     
    Geas said:
    So I suppose then my question becomes this: when we flank the Void Wraith's position and unleash our initial barrage of Slinger Missiles and siege cannon fire, do we prioritize targeting the Missile Cruisers or the Dreadnoughts?
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    My thought is since two of those dreadnoughts are already significantly damaged, if we prioritized those, we stand a decent chance of taking them off the table - which, given their subversion beams and other heavy armaments, might be worth it. Even if we can defend against the subversion effect of the beam, it still does a tremendous amount of damage.

    So I'd go after the damaged ones with our missile ships, which either works or leads to them pulling some Missile Cruisers out of formation to engage us, at which point Ulysses does his thing.
     
    [ ] Integrated Strike Denial
    -[ ] Harassment force leaves hyperspace "behind" the remaining Wraith elements in order to engage the Missile Carriers with bombardment missiles and strike craft.
    -[ ] Our naval assets should stay combined in one task force. The hostile Carriers are unaccounted for and are likely to "fold in" on our flanking maneuver utilizing their exotic drives so Ulysses is tasked with denying them the critical mass they need to overwhelm us, while we need the protection of our defense fields from the dreadnoughts until a missile barrage can destroy it.
    -[ ] The enemy is likely to pull something out of their corrupted shells, or uncorrupted Wraiths could show up from the Monolith. Either way, there is not much farther we can plan for at this point.

    Is my ideal plan at this point. Roughly summed up as cleaning up the enemy artillery so our own can pound the enemy breakthrough force while staying prepared to have to counter counter strikes by the dispersed enemy carriers.
     
    [ ] Surgical Strike
    -[ ] Valerius leads task force of Slingers, remaining Shepherd destroyer and Oracle 13 to attack the already damaged dreadnoughts with missiles and strikecraft, with Valerius and Oracle 13 serving as high value "bait" to draw attention (Oracle 13 can use FTL inhibitor as needed) from Missile Cruisers
    -[ ] Ulysses, with Laverna and our Flicker Friends in support, will jump in after we are engaged, aiming to finish off the damaged Dreadnoughts with a Siege Cannon blast, with their strikecraft prioritizing Missile Cruisers left drifting after the shot detonates.

    This is what I'm looking at for now. Aim is to take those damaged dreads off the table, and mop up the Missile Cruisers after they're caught in the splash damage (and temporarily left drifting). The damaged dreads have a lot of firepower and are less maneuverable than the missile cruisers, whose lighter armor would make them easier to take down quickly during their brief period of incapacitation.
     
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    Rivenscryr said:
    [ ] Surgical Strike
    -[ ] Valerius leads task force of Slingers, remaining Shepherd destroyer and Oracle 13 to attack the already damaged dreadnoughts with missiles and strikecraft, with Valerius and Oracle 13 serving as high value "bait" to draw attention (Oracle 13 can use FTL inhibitor as needed) from Missile Cruisers
    -[ ] Ulysses, with Laverna and our Flicker Friends in support, will jump in after we are engaged, aiming to finish off the damaged Dreadnoughts with a Siege Cannon blast, with their strikecraft prioritizing Missile Cruisers left drifting after the shot detonates.
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    Hm. I believe this would be attacking the enemy where they are weak in order to cascade downward, whereas my plan would be described as attacking where we are strong in order to cascade upward. A difference in execution for much the same result.

    That said, there is no indication or reason that the Missile Cruisers would be affected by a Siege Cannon shot aimed at the dreadnoughts? Which are in direct contact with friendly mobile elements mind, so...
     
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