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The only thing that can stop the bugs is A STRONG ECONOMY - HELLDIVERS

Mandemon said:
Thing is, there is no real way to "buff everything else". Issue with Railgun was that is was fast, didn't require backpack, killed everything, was effectively a sniper and carried decent amount of ammo.

Let's say we need to comapre Railgun as it was and a Recoiless Rifle that has been "buffed" to kill chargers in single shot. People are still taking Railgun because you can shoot fast with it, where as RR needs reloading. Reducing that reload takes away from the whole "have a team mate" aspect.

Buffing Autocannon? Well, either it is now as powerful as Railgun, at which point Railgun still wins because you don't need lengthy reload after five shots.

And so on and so on. Every other weapon was balanced around their downside, Railgun was only one with no real downside. It killed everything, reached everything and there was no challenge in using it. Now that the default mode is "only" usable against medium armor and you need charged shot to punch through heavy armor, there is a downside that balances it.
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That downside now being you really need to have and hit your target within the allotted 3 seconds, or you miss or explode.

Genuinely, I don't know why the safe mode is even in the game given this balance patch.
 
Mandemon said:
Thing is, there is no real way to "buff everything else". Issue with Railgun was that is was fast, didn't require backpack, killed everything, was effectively a sniper and carried decent amount of ammo.

Let's say we need to comapre Railgun as it was and a Recoiless Rifle that has been "buffed" to kill chargers in single shot. People are still taking Railgun because you can shoot fast with it, where as RR needs reloading. Reducing that reload takes away from the whole "have a team mate" aspect.

Buffing Autocannon? Well, either it is now as powerful as Railgun, at which point Railgun still wins because you don't need lengthy reload after five shots.

And so on and so on. Every other weapon was balanced around their downside, Railgun was only one with no real downside. It killed everything, reached everything and there was no challenge in using it. Now that the default mode is "only" usable against medium armor and you need charged shot to punch through heavy armor, there is a downside that balances it.
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I suppose at this point the discussion boils down to "what about chargers," which at any rate maybe better justifies a nerf to the enemy itself, rather than buffs to other weapons. I have yet to play in the current patch so I don't know exactly how much things have changed, but in the time I played beforehand Chargers were by far the most oppressive enemy to try to deal with, and the railgun felt like the only real way to do so consistently (especially in cases where you're dealing with several at once), and I'm not sure yet if that's changed enough with the nerf to justify going for other options.

I'll definitely keep an eye on it in any case, but I don't think the nerfs that were made really change anything (flamethrower buff is actually a stealth nerf to all players that aren't using flamethrower and you can't convince me otherwise :V).
 
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I'm surprised at how much chargers dominate these discussions, personally. They're probably the easiest heavy enemy to kill with small arms in my experience, and they're way easier to not get hit by than a Hulk.
 
Cyanblackstone said:
That downside now being you really need to have and hit your target within the allotted 3 seconds, or you miss or explode.

Genuinely, I don't know why the safe mode is even in the game given this balance patch.
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To quickly deal with non-heavy enemies. Scout walkers, Hive guards, Devastors, etc.

These all have medium armor, so you might want speed over power when dealing with them.
 
In safe mode you can also hold a charge indefinitely, so against those lighter targets, if you want to be able to take more time lining up your shot, safe mode allows for that. Still think I'll always be using it on unsafe, but there's reasons to use safe that aren't completely fake.
 
What counts as being in unsafe mode for it?
Does it have to be right at the top or does any time after it started to overcharge count as unsafe?

As it didnt seem to be doing much when I tried unsafe firing, but that was on an awkward map so might not have hit.

Also the new hazards are hilarious. "At extract, get hit by a volcanic rock which launches me from the platform at the exact moment the shuttle is landing, manage to sprint back and dive in with less than a second left, also watch the last guy who was waiting and doing cover for me die to a rock while Im doing the runback."

10/10 chaos enhancer
 
cB557 said:
I'm surprised at how much chargers dominate these discussions, personally. They're probably the easiest heavy enemy to kill with small arms in my experience, and they're way easier to not get hit by than a Hulk.
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Biggest difference I've found with Hulks is that, while they're certainly on the tougher end for those missions, end up being easier by way of how different the play styles differ between them vs bugs. I don't see my groups struggle nearly as much against them since it kinda falls into the same tactics as everything else, whereas Chargers require a pretty different methodology to handle versus most other bugs.

Also the AMR just shines a lot better against bots in general I feel, which has been my go-to for those missions in a lot of cases.
 
One small change that the update introduced that I love: Faster end-of-mission screen. Old one took ages to get through, new one is lightning fast.
 
Sightedjt said:
What counts as being in unsafe mode for it?
Does it have to be right at the top or does any time after it started to overcharge count as unsafe?

As it didnt seem to be doing much when I tried unsafe firing, but that was on an awkward map so might not have hit.

Also the new hazards are hilarious. "At extract, get hit by a volcanic rock which launches me from the platform at the exact moment the shuttle is landing, manage to sprint back and dive in with less than a second left, also watch the last guy who was waiting and doing cover for me die to a rock while Im doing the runback."

10/10 chaos enhancer
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Was playing with some friends on difficulty 7 against Bugs. We slog through like 12+ Chargers, 5+ Bile Titans, collect all samples on the map, do all side objectives, manage to hold out until 15 seconds to extraction..

Only for a COMMUNIST VOLCANIC ROCK to suddenly fall right on the extraction point and wipe 3/4 of us out, leading to our last guy desperately break-dancing around like a cocaine addict to dodge all the bugs, recover all samples and get the fuck out.

10/10 would fight a socialist volcano for democracy again

E:
CTRosen said:
Biggest difference I've found with Hulks is that, while they're certainly on the tougher end for those missions, end up being easier by way of how different the play styles differ between them vs bugs. I don't see my groups struggle nearly as much against them since it kinda falls into the same tactics as everything else, whereas Chargers require a pretty different methodology to handle versus most other bugs.

Also the AMR just shines a lot better against bots in general I feel, which has been my go-to for those missions in a lot of cases.
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At the higher difficulties (7+) Automatons feel easier than Bugs. Hulks are tough and strong, but if you can get behind their backs they're easy to kill, and even from the front if you can shoot them in the head with a decent weapon you can deal; Tanks are pretty similar in that regard, dangerous but with clear weaknesses you can exploit.

Chargers on the other hand are also tough and strong, but surprisingly fast and agile as well with none of the obvious weak-points a Hulk has. Even hits on the unarmoured parts deal reduced damage (except with explosive damage). At this point my group mostly uses EATs in bug missions, because it's a short CD, you get 2 per drop, and you can break the Charger's leg in one shot with it, so we just spam that shit all over the map :V

As a sidenote, I've found the laser cannon to be pretty decent against Automatons after the latest patch. It's pinpoint accurate so it can easily target heads for quick kills.
 
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I got a chance to play this evening too, on difficulties 5 and 6, and I take back what I said, I'll allow a meta if we can have the old railgun back for dealing with chargers
 
Ford Prefect said:
I got a chance to play this evening too, on difficulties 5 and 6, and I take back what I said, I'll allow a meta if we can have the old railgun back for dealing with chargers
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At this point I feel like it's Chargers that need to be looked at. Either make them a bit easier to kill or reduce their mobility, especially their ability to turn on a dime for such a big armoured fuckoff monster.
 
Honestly, my suggestion to "fix" chargers is to either make them mor expensive to spawn (so no more charger spam), or make their legs medium armor instead of heavy armor. This way the legs retain the weakpoint nature, but you still need skill to hit them rather than just hitting the body.
 
They do seem overtuned, especially given how common they are and how many you can have on you at a time. It seems almost more common than not to have to deal with two at once even on hard, and one of my calls this evening while we were fighting a charger pair was 'two chargers coming in from the left' lol
 
Chargers are the main reason I prefer bots over bugs at 6+ yeah. The part where the ass takes so much less damage feels really weird. Its a big exposed weakspot, it feels like it should be moee vulnerable
 
Sightedjt said:
Chargers are the main reason I prefer bots over bugs at 6+ yeah. The part where the ass takes so much less damage feels really weird. Its a big exposed weakspot, it feels like it should be moee vulnerable
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I wouldn't have much of a problem with the ass not being a weakpoint if it wasn't also armoured lol, I think a technical enemy is good for mixing things up but the whole 'charger archetype' is based around bullfighting and in Helldivers there's almost no point to trying it because you don't get a clean shot on the back anyway. The way movement and diving in particular makes that a really thrilling way to fight them, but it's suboptimal compared to tackling the legs head on.
 
Ralson said:
We drop at mission start to set up our defense, I call in my equipment, pan to the left, and a Charger is just standing right next to me like Bugs Bunny.
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Something like this happened to my friend earlier: he cleared out a swarm of enemies, turned around and came face to face with a charger which went 'hey' and immediately one shot him. Just an unbelievably hectic mission type in an already very hectic game!
 
Ford Prefect said:
Something like this happened to my friend earlier: he cleared out a swarm of enemies, turned around and came face to face with a charger which went 'hey' and immediately one shot him. Just an unbelievably hectic mission type in an already very hectic game!
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The titular charge attack is not too bad, so it can feel like you're getting a handle on them, but when you lose momentum they eat you like a potato chip.
 
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Dang, pretty impressive seeing the laser cannon in action against hulks now. It takes some aim to keep the beam steady on the eye, but if you can pull that off they go down fast. The big bright flash effect laser weapons have on deflection can actually be pretty helpful for this too; if you're shooting from far enough away that it's hard to exactly make out the eye you can just wiggle your aim about where you're pretty sure it is until you see the flash wink out, because if nothing else you're always gonna be able to see that.
 
i did a couple missions yesterday and patrols kept spawning directly behind us.

Like... literally a couple feet behind us almost at random. Is that a bug?

ALSO! The laser Cannon is really fun now. loving it.
 
21stCentury said:
i did a couple missions yesterday and patrols kept spawning directly behind us.

Like... literally a couple feet behind us almost at random. Is that a bug?

ALSO! The laser Cannon is really fun now. loving it.
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Yes. They should spawn at sufficient distance that you can see them walk in, just pop into existence right on top of you.
 
I had a patrol spawn literally around me last night, I was right between a few bots. It was a very hectic moment.
 
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