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The New Dark Age: (A Fallout Albania Quest)

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Retired Explorer said:
So, we need to remodel our logistics bikes, with any luck they won't be prohibitively expensive resource-wise.
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Using electricity power for transportation should definitly be a priority, now that we have a giant surplus in the dam.

But im not sure if multiple electric cargo bikes would be more efficient than some sort of electric truck. The flexibility of multiple smaller transport vehicles is not currently needed and usually one bigger engine is better than multiple smaller engines. But ebikes may be cheaper than even a stripped down small truck. Im not sure, ideally we would design both and use the best fit but im not sure if we have the spare experts.



Doing some calculations about supplying a FOB close to Fier:

I assume there are 500 refugees and 100 teachers/doctors helping them, with each civilian consuming 1 kg of supply each day

I assume that the entire army(200), Commissariat(51) and the rangers(18) are stationed at the FOB, with each soldier consuming 2 kg of supply each day.

That results in a supply consumption of 34140 kg/month for the FOB


The distance for foot travel from Gjirokaster to Fier on google maps is 107 km. If we assume that the Cargo bikes travel with 200 kg of cargo and move at 10 km/h, they could theoreticcally do the route in one day, though it would be hell on the driver. If we swap drivers after the transport so every driver has 1 day rest each Bike could transport 3000 kg/month.

This means that we would need 12 Bikes to supply a FOB, potentially more cause some of my assumptions are pretty optimistic, potentially less if there are less refugees.
 
We could do like the romans did in an attempt to help mitigate it. Have a group of men tasked with ranging out around the FOB to acquire game and forage. With the romans, It was the task of the Frumentatores before they became secret police to range out and find food for their legion, and Aquatore were responsible for finding water. I think they also had ones dedicated to finding fodder for animals and one for firewood too.

@GenAth the degenerate bugman: "Look where it has brought you, back to me."

But in all seriousness wtf guys did you really go back around to eating bugs? that's fucking gross as hell
 
GenAth said:
@Azel @Hazeron @NSchwerte

I see you ultimately decided to return to my premise of bugs for nutritional use? How does that make you all feel? Knowing it is a logically sound plan...
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I never was against the idea in the first place just unsure about wether the moral loss would be worth it.

But Deathclaws do not have that weakness, this superior lifeforms understand that protein is protein.

Though the fact that the production building costs metal does make it pretty much nonviable ATM :(


Coduss said:
We could do like the romans did in an attempt to help mitigate it. Have a group of men tasked with ranging out around the FOB to acquire game and forage. With the romans, It was the task of the Frumentatores before they became secret police to range out and find food for their legion, and Aquatore were responsible for finding water. I think they also had ones dedicated to finding fodder for animals and one for firewood too.
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We can definitely do some foraging, but I am worried that it won't be as effective in this new world. The rangers nearly got killed while hunting because all the wildlife is mutated to be able to fight and even the immigrants from Korce wont be experts identifying what's edible and what's going to kill you in one bite.

Foraging can supplement food but it likely won't work as the main supply
 
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The Nutritional value outweighed the initial setback to moral when it would encourage populace growth with the security that food could be sustainable in a relatively easy way. Instead you decided to harbor the nutrition for an apex predator that is more liable to eat everyone involved. Great war hounds, but ultimately dangerous.
 
GenAth said:
The Nutritional value outweighed the initial setback to moral when it would encourage populace growth with the security that food could be sustainable in a relatively easy way. Instead you decided to harbor the nutrition for an apex predator that is more liable to eat everyone involved. Great war hounds, but ultimately dangerous.
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(Being serious, each kg of insect protein for the deathclaws means that we need to give them one less kg of other meat which can be used for our people.)

A silly claim! There can be no doubt that the Deathclaws are the greatest boost to population growth we could have! If a citizen looks out into the wasteland they are going to worry about if the food from Rrezoma is going to arrive on time, sure.

But they are also going to worry about the uncountable dangers of the Wasteland! Who wants to bring a child into the world while terrifying mutated beasts roam just outside the city? Except of course they do not have to worry, for the have the greatest beast of them all as their ally and protector, endowed with the spirit of communism and ready to fight for Albania like the great Skanderbeg himself!
 
GenAth said:
The Nutritional value outweighed the initial setback to moral when it would encourage populace growth with the security that food could be sustainable in a relatively easy way. Instead you decided to harbor the nutrition for an apex predator that is more liable to eat everyone involved. Great war hounds, but ultimately dangerous.
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The nutritonal value most certainly would *not* outweigh the morale loss. There's already a noticeable morale loss with soldiers on Military food, let alone MRE rations, compared to proper meals. and you want to feed them radroach.
 
NSchwerte said:
(Being serious, each kg of insect protein for the deathclaws means that we need to give them one less kg of other meat which can be used for our people.)

A silly claim! There can be no doubt that the Deathclaws are the greatest boost to population growth we could have! If a citizen looks out into the wasteland they are going to worry about if the food from Rrezoma is going to arrive on time, sure.

But they are also going to worry about the uncountable dangers of the Wasteland! Who wants to bring a child into the world while terrifying mutated beasts roam just outside the city? Except of course they do not have to worry, for the have the greatest beast of them all as their ally and protector, endowed with the spirit of communism and ready to fight for Albania like the great Skanderbeg himself!
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I never said Death Claws were a bad investment, merely a dangerous one. One that worked out quite well.

Though to say that having a steady and stable food source isn't the greatest boon to a populace is farce. Look throughout history, hell even through evolution! When a steady supply of rich nutrition is added to a species they become stronger, and smarter. When said topic is added to a populace they become stronger, smarter, and wealthier. Nutrition is more important, not that defenses, and weapons aren't important (that would be a foolish sentimental), but rather that it is secondary to a secure source of nutritional value.

Also Just as a side note to not make this seem like an attack, I was actually incredibly impressed with the progress everyone had made on this quest. The infrastructure, the resources, and the tools are all quite impressive.
 
NSchwerte said:
We can definitely do some foraging, but I am worried that it won't be as effective in this new world. The rangers nearly got killed while hunting because all the wildlife is mutated to be able to fight and even the immigrants from Korce wont be experts identifying what's edible and what's going to kill you in one bite.

Foraging can supplement food but it likely won't work as the main supply
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Doing a study to codify the amount of food the forager corps actually gathers in a foraging run is likely a decent idea.
 
NSchwerte said:
The distance for foot travel from Gjirokaster to Fier on google maps is 107 km. If we assume that the Cargo bikes travel with 200 kg of cargo and move at 10 km/h, they could theoreticcally do the route in one day, though it would be hell on the driver. If we swap drivers after the transport so every driver has 1 day rest each Bike could transport 3000 kg/month.

This means that we would need 12 Bikes to supply a FOB, potentially more cause some of my assumptions are pretty optimistic, potentially less if there are less refugees.
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Apart from supplying the base with food we will also need to send medical supplies (and medical professionals).​
 
Retired Explorer said:
Apart from supplying the base with food we will also need to send medical supplies (and medical professionals).​
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Definitely. I included Doctors+Nurses in the 100 Civilian compartment of the camp, same as cooks and other stuff. In not sure if we want to educate them while they are in their camp instead of having them focus on resting and preparing for getting back where they are taught with less strain on our logistics.

While medical supplies are important they can be stockpiled before the actual raid and I expect that the consumption by weight will be significantly less than food. The refugees are likely going to be malnourished and sick but we don't really have heavy medical equipment we could supply them with.

We don't have the resources to produce Medical Equipment this turn, our doctors are working with home made stuff and whatever they can scavenge from the wasteland


Hazeron said:
I HAD NO PART IN THIS
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I am sorry... you are the Bugman now
 
So, seeing that we are having some issues with logistics I decided to google a map of the Albanian railway system:

I imagine that all the railways and trains are rusted beyond believe but given that pre-apocalypse Albania was an autarky, Fier (or any of the cities connected by train) should have rolling stocks factories that we could pillage.

Either way, @Dapperlad1 could you please confirm if this map is accurate for the lore of this quest?
 
Retired Explorer said:
So, seeing that we are having some issues with logistics I decided to google a map of the Albanian railway system:

I imagine that all the railways and trains are rusted beyond believe but given that pre-apocalypse Albania was an autarky, Fier (or any of the cities connected by train) should have rolling stocks factories that we could pillage.

Either way, @Dapperlad1 could you please confirm if this map is accurate for the lore of this quest?
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The rail network was a tad more extensive and you are correct in your rusted beyond all hell rails but yes, Fier likely has rolling stock foundries.
 
Concerning Industrial production, we are still harshly constrained by Metal Extraction. Our current specialised factories(1 Industrial, 1 Construction) consume our maximum extraction by themselves, leaving only our stockpile of 2 Metal for the remaining 3 Slots.

Our ranger really want their newly designed guns giving them the ability to hunt without risking their life each time. On the other hand if we assign them to cataloguing wildlife they aren't going to engage in routine battles with them so they may be able to wait another turn.



Still, if we produce the guns(and ammunition), we'll spend our only remaining stockpile of metal, so both the last slot and next turn won't have any left.

In this case I consider either deathclaw control Spray or Stimpacks the best production.

The spray doesn't need resources and we want the Deathclaws and their handlers in top form when they deploy for their first time this turn. And ensuring we can control the Murder Machines is very valuable of course.

Stimpacks OTOH do need resources but chemicals are pretty cheap and we get a hundred of them. So we can equip every soldier with one of them to raise their survivability a lot and spare ones could be used to treat refugees where they are needed.

Plan Hunt and Build
Specialised Industrial Equipment
Specialised Construction Equipment
Ranger Guns
Ranger Ammo
Control Spray/Stimpak

If we decide that the Rangers could wait another turns well have a lot more varied possibilities. These are possible uses for the availability of 2 Metal and 3 Slots

Plan Medical Expansion
Specialised Industrial Equipment
Specialised Construction Equipment
Medical Equipment
Stimpak
Control Spray

Plan Logistical Expansion
Specialised Industrial Equipment
Specialised Construction Equipment
Cargo Bikes
Stimpak
Control Spray

If we plan for a cautious approach to the Fier raid we could decide not to build Stimpaks, which would allow us to supply the refugees both with an expanded transport corps and medical Equipment.

Plan Soldiers don't get hit
Specialised Industrial Equipment
Specialised Construction Equipment
Cargo Bikes
Medical Equipment
Control Spray

Another possibility would be to Suspend or unspecialise Industrial Equipment Production.

This would free up 5(!) Metal. This would open up the possibility of another answer to our logistics question: a boat, able to carry 2 tons towards Fier while also evacuating them on the return trip.

Plan Boat Rangers
No Industrial Equipment Production
Specialised Construction Equipment
Ranger Guns
Ranger Ammo
Boat

Plan Boat Soldiers
No Industrial Equipment Production
Specialised Construction Equipment
Boat
Stimpak
Control Spray

Plan The boat protects
No Industrial Equipment Production
Specialised Construction Equipment
Boat
Medical Equipment
Control Spray

A bit off-topic: Theoretically the boat transports 2000 kg for one industrial slot while 30 bikes are able to transport 6000 kg for the same slot.

But something that needs to be kept in mind is that a boat can transport 24/7 with the sailors sleeping on the boat or getting swapped I the cities, while I am very weary if having our Transporters bike during the night even if we can ensure they are rested with a shift system.

Transporting 200kg a 100km is also exhausting and it will destroy our labourers in the longer term



I don't have a plan I would definitely support and any industrial plan will of course have to be harmonised with the other actions but maybe someone has additional ideas or thoughts on industrial policy
 
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I SERVE ALBANIA COMRADE ABYSSIUS

(i actually had the original one up for a few months so now my name is attached to anything i've said on this forum 💀)
 
Free Labourers this turn: 2726, or 8726 including all the Farmers, where some of them can be taken from the farms

Free Experts this turn: 90

@Hazeron you still have the old values for experts required for industry/extraction. Its 5 experts for each industry and 2 expert for each extraction
 
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NSchwerte said:
Free Labourers this turn: 2726, or 8726 including all the Farmers, where some of them can be taken from the farms

Free Experts this turn: 90

@Hazeron you still have the old values for experts required for industry/extraction. Its 5 experts for each industry and 2 expert for each extraction
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fixed, is the old link still working or do i need to reshare?
 
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