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The Multiverse is a Big Place(SI)

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Consider it like this, would you rather eat a Mars bar and have momentary satisfaction or would you rather go to an all you can eat buffet at Flavourz and have a sumptuous feast of delicious food?
 
I think the slow(er) buildup is actually a good thing. More power doesn't automatically make a story better and setting things up properly can lead to a better plot.
 
Fellgar said:
And that has something to do with what I posted how exactly? -.-

No seriously the story is boring so far. That what I am saying. If you don't like me saying I find it slow and boring then don't comment so I don't have to respond. I had dropped the conversation until you showed up.
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Quite a bit actually there is also no need to get defensive. Not every one has the same tastes and I don't find this boring. I find the slower pace and less extreme jumps in pace to be more engaging. It makes the character more human sure not a lot has happened yet but then its early days in the story.

consider the following though for many people who watch buffy Xander is their favourite character despite being just a normal human. He has no special powers and is mostly the butt of all the jokes in the show.

You specifically made mention of hivers SIs lack of growth in power being displayed implying that he needs to show power creep for the story to be interesting.
With you Hiver? Generally very exciting. This though? Well its just not up to your normal standards. At least some progress being shown in growing stronger would be nice... thats generally what happens.
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I just don't think it's needed to have a good story.

I also don't mind you talking about it, this is a forum after all we are here to discuss the story. There is little reason to be offended that I don't share your view point we can surely share our thoughts with out attacking one another no?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Heh, I was going to say thats a poor analogy I would have both ofcourse :eek:
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Why would you need a Mars bar when you have an all you can eat buffet where you can eat Pizza, Chinese food and naan Bread at the same time? But enough of a derail about food, what about alchemy? As I'd like to see a Chlorine trifluoride grenade being invented, it's a harmless material (say Aluminium) with an alchemic compound a divide between the Aluminium and compound which when combined becomes Chlorine trifluoride. I'd like to see the Judge survive that!
 
SemiSaneAuthor said:
Why would you need a Mars bar when you have an all you can eat buffet where you can eat Pizza, Chinese food and naan Bread at the same time? But enough of a derail about food, what about alchemy? As I'd like to see a Chlorine trifluoride grenade being invented, it's a harmless material (say Aluminium) with an alchemic compound a divide between the Aluminium and compound which when combined becomes Chlorine trifluoride. I'd like to see the Judge survive that!
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Chlorine trifuoride? You're insane.
 
Narf the Mouse said:
How does that compare to dioxygen diflouride?
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I believe I could sum it up by saying I wouldn't work with this substance no matter how much money you were willing to pay me, and I synthesized nitro-glycerin as a teen(small amounts of the stuff can be used for amusing practical jokes ;) )
 
tkioz said:
A lot of the problems with custom ammo isn't it's effectiveness, it's the logistics of the thing, actually getting the stuff. You could invent the perfect anti-vamp round, but how the hell are you going to get enough to be viable?

Better to use off the shelf, if somewhat exotic stuff like Dragonsbreath and Bolo shells.
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well, presumably if you can prove the effectiveness of said round of ammo and you can come up with a machining process to automate construction of said ammunition you could probably get the watches council to invest in a factory. They certainly are rich enough. The problem is there wouldn't likely be people with the skill set capable of achieving such a thing who are aware of the supernatural world and have enough contacts with supernatural (aware contacts) with the infrastructure to pull it off.

tld;dr watchers council should be able to pull it off, the only problem is convincing a hide bound traditionalist group to adopt new tactics.
 
tkioz said:
Both of those assume you've got access to money... which Hiver doesn't. Oh he's got enough to live on, but he's hardly got millions laying around waiting to be spent.

And as for the Watchers and cash... that's pure fanon. I would assume they are asset rich but cash poor. Sure they've got centuries old books, manuscripts, estates, and other doodads laying around... but those aren't exactly income generators are they?And if they sell them... well... those aren't just art, they are vital tools for defending the human race.

It's like when people talk about the Catholic church being 'rich'... they take into account centuries old buildings that are very very valuable landwise... that they can't sell... all that art... that people would scream about if they sold it... all those books that maintain... etc... etc... when they should be looking at their income and expenses. Hell I remember arguing that point back in high school, a local church group was running a fund raiser, and some smartass brought up they owned a church dead centre in the middle of town, valued in the tens of millions for the land alone... that they weren't allowed to sell by law because it's a listed building, and in fact it cost them more money to keep it open then a modern building would because they had to keep it in heritage condition.

The idea that the watchers have billions sitting around doing nothing is total fanon, it's the same as the Highlander 'rich immortal' thing, just because they've been around for a long ass time, doesn't mean they've got money.
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actually the Vatican church is rich because they have charity status all over the world have 0 income tax and funnel vast amounts of donation money from local catholic churches to the Vatican city state. (pro tip it's a hell of a lot of money)


I'm pretty sure the Watchers council have a lot of money because of their ability to outfit wetware teams and send them around the world at short notice. It doesn't speak of an organization without large amounts of money that they can bring to bare.

I'm ignoring Fanon because well it's irrelevant, I'm going on their ability to have watchers 'houses' in most countries in the world. Kendra for instance was trained in the west indies.

that and owning lots of land isn't cheap due to council/property taxes. They have to have some form of income generation or they wouldn't be able to afford to keep all of their assets.

Edit: that said I certainly don't think they have billions lieing around and you don't need billions to setup a small semi automated construction facility to make ammo. Low to mid tens of millions yes.
 
Carandol said:
However, since Hiver has said he's going to concentrate on internal magic none of this applies to him, though it could still help explain why Giles isn't making money with magic. Since internal magic is powered and shaped by Hiver, it may simply be that he lacks the necessary power and mental discipline for turning coal into diamond, or pulling gold out of sea water.
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Giles doesn't know internal magic, all of his experience was with channeling the powers of gods/demons. So like Willow he falls into the "schmuck bait" category of magic users.
 
Actually, Hiver COULD reach out to somebody for external power. "Hephestus, guide my hands as I repair this engine\gun\flamethrower!"
 
IceWing_mk1 said:
Actually, Hiver COULD reach out to somebody for external power. "Hephestus, guide my hands as I repair this engine\gun\flamethrower!"
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You watched too much Hercules, Hephaestus would just as soon burn him to a crisp as give him any blessings.
 
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    • "Son of a!" I started as I clutched my hand and landed on the floor. "Bloody Hell, Watcher. This is not training, this is an excuse to hit me with a stick!"

    He gave me an amused look and smiled, "Not at all. This is a very good way to learn how to use a sword in a hurry. Something you need."

    I rolled my eyes and got back onto my feet. "And it has nothing to do with me talking you into disclosure when it comes to Mrs Summers?"

    It took several hours to bring him around, but in the end I managed to get him to see that while it was possible the entire thing would blow up in our faces, it would at the very least happen at the time of our choosing, not when it risked the entire world.
    The Watchers have a policy to keep the parents of the slayer out of it, if at all possible, which is why they usually take in potentials early if they can find them.

    But in this case, disclosure is kind of needed.

    He grinned and put the wooden swords away "Not at all. You being required to be present at that meeting, that's the revenge."

    I grimaced and rubbed my wrist before I sighed, "Well, if you are done hitting me with sticks, I need to go discuss magic with Miss Calendar. Curses, more specifically."

    Giles frowned. "Curses are always at the very least dark grey if not black magic," he said, and I nodded.

    "Oh, no worries, I have no intention of using them. Hell, I don't even know if I could, I'm barely at the 'Fire from ice' stage of magic. Simple transmutation stuff. Besides...it's almost all external magic stuff, which I won't touch," I said and leaned against the table in the library. "No...I was reading up on them last night and something hit me. All curses have a break condition...they have to or they don't stick."

    He nodded. "Yes, that's correct, it's a law of magic. Was there something specific you were thinking about?"

    I tapped my finger on the table and nodded "Yes. Angel was cursed with a soul by gypsies, right? Meaning that there is a way for his curse to be broken."

    Giles frowned and nodded. "Yes...Angel loosing his soul and letting out Angelus would be...Bad beyond belief."

    "Yeah...that was what I was thinking. I flipped through the information I could find about him in the library and Angelus was one sick puppy, even for a vampire. Even worse, he was smart, competent. Which is why we need to find out how his curse can be broken so we can prevent it if possible...if not find out what the curse was so we can shove it back in if not. Which is why I plan to take it up with the resident magical expert, techno-pagan or not."

    He nodded "I-I think you might be right. This should actually be researched at depth...Perhaps I can find something in the books," he said, and then he turned to wander deeper into the library.

    "Have fun," I said and turned to walk out in search for the undercover gypsie.




    "Miss Calendar?" I asked as I poked my head into the computer lap before I walked inside, looking around.

    Ugh, 1995 age computer tech. Raised button keyboards, CRT monitors...16MB RAM...Ball mice. Fuck this shit is primitive.

    She wasn't there but her computer was on so she was likely to return soon, so I sat down and booted up one of the other ones to surf the net while I waited.

    After ten minutes of frustration at the speed I simply shut it down again with a sigh. I hate the past.

    Luckily she arrived just a couple of minutes later. "Miss Calendar..." I said before I continued, "We need to talk about Angel and his curse."

    She froze and her smile went away slowly. "What do you know?" she asked and I blinked, trying to hide my 'surprise'.

    "Well...He was cursed by Gypsies around a hundred years ago for killing one of their girls. That's the entire problem actually, the curse. Curses can be broken."

    "Oh god..." she said "Don't tell me..."

    I shook my head "No. It hasn't, but as you are the resident expert in the subject I thought I would ask you what could make it happen. If his curse breaks...Well, the phrase "Minor Apocalypse" comes to mind. We also need to find a way to shove it back in if it does happen."

    She narrowed her eyes and then she sighed and nodded "Well, I guess it couldn't last forever. Does Giles know?"

    "He is doing research into the matter right now." I said and got up "Shall we go and talk to him?" I asked, and she nodded. "We...we might as well get it over with," she said, and then turned to walk out, so I followed her, feeling a bit pleased with myself.

    With some luck this should prevent Angelus showing up. Without revealing any future knowledge.



    AN// Big thanks to Ckirk for betaing this section.
     
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    • Hiver said:
    He frowned. "Like Winter in french?"
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    It had honestly never occurred to me that your username is pronounced with vowels other than the English ones one would normally expect there. I guess my anglocentrism combined with the fact that it looks like an English word and this is an English-speaking forum.
     
    Random832 said:
    It had honestly never occurred to me that your username is pronounced with vowels other than the English ones one would normally expect there. I guess my anglocentrism combined with the fact that it looks like an English word and this is an English-speaking forum.
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    neither did i when i picked it :p
     
    Angelform said:
    16MB RAM… dear gods. I got 4096MB on my 'getting out of date' rig. How did they run anything?
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    Programs were much more efficient and better built back in the day since even the smallest of memory leaks would quickly render the program unusable.
     
    JTibbs said:
    By 'more efficient and better built' you mean lacking in complexity and barely having a skin beyond their basic function.

    Its not hard to be 'efficient' when it only does a couple things.
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    No I mean more efficient and better built, you won't find giant memory leaks that render your games unplayable after a couple hours unless you restart it like you do in many modern games.
     
    Vaermina said:
    No I mean more efficient and better built, you won't find giant memory leaks that render your games unplayable after a couple hours unless you restart it like you do in many modern games.
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    This dude above is correct.

    Modern programs use vast swathes of memory to achieve things that could be done with much less it's entirely a function of the compiler and programing languages used.

    If you were writing code in the early 90's late 80's you had to have a vastly better understand of the hardware you were writing the code for and you optimized that code like buggery to make sure it ran with out any code leaks and did everything as efficiently as possible.

    Code these days can be jammed through a compiler like a child ramming square blocks through round holes and the compiler WILL make it work. even if you end up using a shit load more resources to pull it off.

    it's incredible how much abstraction there is in coding now compared to the 80's when you coded in assembly.
     
    Vaermina said:
    No I mean more efficient and better built, you won't find giant memory leaks that render your games unplayable after a couple hours unless you restart it like you do in many modern games.
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    Have you played games from the 90s? Crashes were pretty common, just for different reasons than today. In fact, the limitations of older systems make it harder to write bug-free code because you have to micro-optimize a lot more to get things to work. The difference is that modern code usually has massively more features, so you still get a slightly larger total number of bugs.
     
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