The Lost Files (C:TL/Dresden Files) (CK2-ish)

Well...I can imagine a few. But then they are Fuck Everything types.
Even they tend to have plans they'd rather not get derailed by various pawns being abducted and forcibly given lessons on self defense against fresh fruit

edit: or a Keeper declaring that (this week) he is The World's Greatest Detective and then proceeding to find and expose all tgeir secrets and plots
 
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Current Tally.

Arch 8
Volcano 5
Brotherly Love 4
Strong Fort 2
Quilt 6
Atlanta 1

So, it's too close for me to outright start working on making the Freehold.
 
Even they tend to have plans they'd rather not get derailed by various pawns being abducted and forcibly given lessons on self defense against fresh fruit

edit: or a Keeper declaring that (this week) he is The World's Greatest Detective and then proceeding to find and expose all tgeir secrets and plots
I'm thinking more like oh...Nicodemus thinking he can get the better of Mab AND Hades at one go and get away with it.
 
Right, since Atlanta has exactly one vote, might as well vote for something else.

[X] Freehold of the Mended Quilt: Smalltown, Midwest

[X] Winter, the cold season of sorrow and warm hearths.
 
Incidentally, how much if any say would you feel comfortable having on, say, small details about the monarch you start as? Like, if you pick Autumn, some of their magical specialties, or the sorts of contacts they have, or the like. Most of it would be picked out ahead of time. Or rather, I have ideas--mostly for St. Louis, but also for Quilts if that wins, since it's actually pretty close.

The one advantage Volcano has is that I'm already doing Volcano for the other Quest.

The disadvantage is that doing it twice means I might get sick of it. :V
 
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Incidentally, how much if any say would you feel comfortable having on, say, small details about the monarch you start as? Like, if you pick Autumn, some of their magical specialties, or the sorts of contacts they have, or the like. Most of it would be picked out ahead of time. Or rather, I have ideas--mostly for St. Louis, but also for Quilts if that wins, since it's actually pretty close.
I'm fine either way, though in this case I'm intensely curious as to what you'd come up with.
 
[X] Freehold of the Marble Arch: St. Louis, Missouri
[x] Autumn, the season of the fear and yet also the harvest.

I'm rather curious as to how well the True Fae will fare if they mess about on DF earth too much. In their home setting they managed to piss off and make an enemy of iron itself. And their are quite a few beings that serve as anthropomorphised representations of aspects of the world within DF.

Actually now that I think about it, DF Immortals would probably be as anathema to the True Fae. In DF, true Immortals are fundamental, immutable, static pillars of purpose and order within the world; Power that is imperishable in a way that even the True Fae are not. If the cold hard static order of the natural world is hard for them to bear, then the Immortal fulcrums that exist within its supernatural order would be like poison to them.
 
[X] Freehold of the Marble Arch: St. Louis, Missouri
[x] Autumn, the season of the fear and yet also the harvest.

I'm rather curious as to how well the True Fae will fare if they mess about on DF earth too much. In their home setting they managed to piss off and make an enemy of iron itself. And their are quite a few beings that serve as anthropomorphised representations of aspects of the world within DF.

Actually now that I think about it, DF Immortals would probably be as anathema to the True Fae. In DF, true Immortals are fundamental, immutable, static pillars of purpose and order within the world; Power that is imperishable in a way that even the True Fae are not. If the cold hard static order of the natural world is hard for them to bear, then the Immortal fulcrums that exist within its supernatural order would be like poison to them.

Possibly, but at the same time, they also clearly have some trek/connection with symbolism and Talecrafting. An immortal who is the pure representation of, say, the fears and legends of one type of people (like the Skinwalker) is pretty clearly not *that* different from them in some ways, so I'd hesitate to say that their very selves are poison.

And certainly, one thing the Gentry understand is acting according to their nature. True Fae pretty much can't act except how they act, to the point where their virtues and vices are flipped. A moment of virtue/being nice is the exception, a whim of theirs, compared to the long moments of indulging in what they are.

So there'd be some things about Immortals that would make sense to the True Fae, many things that would be very disconcerting...but I'm not sure that, like, Immortal beings would be silver bullets against the Gentry.
 
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Possibly, but at the same time, they also clearly have some trek/connection with symbolism and Talecrafting. An immortal who is the pure representation of, say, the fears and legends of one type of people (like the Skinwalker) is pretty clearly not *that* different from them in some ways, so I'd hesitate to say that their very selves are poison.
The Skinwalker is a representation of a peoples fears and legends, due to its presence within their part of the world shaping said cultural mythos. But I don't think that serving as an ethnic boogeyman is its actual purview, so to speak.
I'm not really sure what its deal is, other than being a shapeshifting abomination driven by pure malice.
In DF, the term Naagloshii seems to encompass a fairly broad range of supernatural beings; though in this context I am speaking of semidivine immortals such as Shagnasty.

Still, all of that may be entirely irrelevant.
I don't know much about how magic works in C:TL. In laymans terms, what is Talecrafting and how effective is it within material reality?


So there'd be some things about Immortals that would make sense to the True Fae, many things that would be very disconcerting...but I'm not sure that, like, Immortal beings would be silver bullets against the Gentry.

I'm just speculating that if they find existence hard to bear, they'd find those beings who help enforce physical/metaphysical qualities of existence even worse. Not that it likely matters too much as most DF Immortals have a very limited capacity to interact with the world. Generally speaking the higher up the supernatural power chain something is in DF, the more bound by rules it is.
Uriel is powerful enough to annihilate galaxies, for example and he can barely do anything most of the time.

So basically unless the True Fae try to screw with the physical/metaphysical order of existence in some significant way, it is likely a moot point whether Immortals could act as silver bullets or not.
 
OOC: What is Talecrafting
The Skinwalker is a representation of a peoples fears and legends, due to its presence within their part of the world shaping said cultural mythos. But I don't think that serving as an ethnic boogeyman is its actual purview, so to speak.
I'm not really sure what its deal is, other than being a shapeshifting abomination driven by pure malice.
In DF, the term Naagloshii seems to encompass a fairly broad range of supernatural beings; though in this context I am speaking of semidivine immortals such as Shagnasty.

Still, all of that may be entirely irrelevant.
I don't know much about how magic works in C:TL. In laymans terms, what is Talecrafting and how effective is it within material reality?




I'm just speculating that if they find existence hard to bear, they'd find those beings who help enforce physical/metaphysical qualities of existence even worse. Not that it likely matters too much as most DF Immortals have a very limited capacity to interact with the world. Generally speaking the higher up the supernatural power chain something is in DF, the more bound by rules it is.
Uriel is powerful enough to annihilate galaxies, for example and he can barely do anything most of the time.

So basically unless the True Fae try to screw with the physical/metaphysical order of existence in some significant way, it is likely a moot point whether Immortals could act as silver bullets or not.

Talecrafting is, whoo-boy. It is manipulation of the Wyrd, of the rules of reality and fairytales itself, to your advantage. The world manifests what are known as Hooks, or Principles, that you can notice or force. "The Hero gets the girl", "The House Always Wins", "If Dresden is in a Book, a Building Will Be On Fire" are some examples for the Principles end of things. A Changeling who is a Talecrafter (and the mroe skilled the more they can do with it) can force reality to act to fit it. Suddenly their enemy starts losing at poker, Harry Dresden's spell goes awry immediately and sets the building he's in on fire, etc, etc. You see the situation, and then press it.

Now, these often come with Cruel Twists of Fate that the Wyrd deals out, consquences for having done so that you have to deal with, so one has to be careful not to do it too often...or be so good at it/stack enough dice that you get an Exceptional Success and don't get a Cruel Twist.

Now, there are other things that can be done. You can manipulate how others act or are. That is known as Personal Talecrafting. Like, for instance, you try to inhabit the 'character' of an action Hero, and by doing so gain power, but also are forced to act like one to maintain the 'Tale'. Or you can see that someone is acting like a certain sort of character and force them to conform or pay.

In addition you can do a number of things like conditional Tales, trying to guess at the 'genre' of the "Tale" you're in, and some other stuff that is either too high level to be discussed, or just as often too obscure.

Now, there are several limitations to this. First, it takes a lot of skill, and a lot of glamour, and you have to be able to deal with the Cruel Twists that will be coming your way. So in some ways, the ideal Talecrafter is someone skilled enough that they might be able to get what they want without Talecrafting, since using it to do something big means you might get a bad Twist. The House wins, but then accuses you of cheating and you have to run from goons. It turns out that the Harry Dresden building on fire means *you* might get caught in a blazing inferno. Whoops.

Second, it's arrogant as fuck: some Talecrafters avoid it, but the stereotype/bad ending for a lot of Talecrafters is you start to see people as characters. As setting and props and tropes and cliches and fairy-tale things. And yourself as well. You see the world as this not-real thing that you have the power to manipulate, dominate, and decide for. It can make you an asshole, a self-righteous prick, or even a monster if you dive too deep into it, and even if it doesn't, you can start to grow addicted to Talecrafting, for one, and can also start to lose touch with reality, with the fact that the world ISN'T a story with easily definable cliches. Which means someone too far into addiction and Talecrafting Madness would be more likely to make mistaken assumptions based on a world that isn't actually, you know, real most of the time.

All that said, its power and versatility mean that quite a few people pursue it, and a powerful Talecrafter can be scary as fuck.

Does that help?

Edit: Oh, and it works everywhere. Talecrafting, that is.
 
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Talecrafting is, whoo-boy. It is manipulation of the Wyrd, of the rules of reality and fairytales itself, to your advantage. The world manifests what are known as Hooks, or Principles, that you can notice or force. "The Hero gets the girl", "The House Always Wins", "If Dresden is in a Book, a Building Will Be On Fire" are some examples for the Principles end of things. A Changeling who is a Talecrafter (and the mroe skilled the more they can do with it) can force reality to act to fit it. Suddenly their enemy starts losing at poker, Harry Dresden's spell goes awry immediately and sets the building he's in on fire, etc, etc. You see the situation, and then press it.

Now, these often come with Cruel Twists of Fate that the Wyrd deals out, consquences for having done so that you have to deal with, so one has to be careful not to do it too often...or be so good at it/stack enough dice that you get an Exceptional Success and don't get a Cruel Twist.

Now, there are other things that can be done. You can manipulate how others act or are. That is known as Personal Talecrafting. Like, for instance, you try to inhabit the 'character' of an action Hero, and by doing so gain power, but also are forced to act like one to maintain the 'Tale'. Or you can see that someone is acting like a certain sort of character and force them to conform or pay.

In addition you can do a number of things like conditional Tales, trying to guess at the 'genre' of the "Tale" you're in, and some other stuff that is either too high level to be discussed, or just as often too obscure.

Now, there are several limitations to this. First, it takes a lot of skill, and a lot of glamour, and you have to be able to deal with the Cruel Twists that will be coming your way. So in some ways, the ideal Talecrafter is someone skilled enough that they might be able to get what they want without Talecrafting, since using it to do something big means you might get a bad Twist. The House wins, but then accuses you of cheating and you have to run from goons. It turns out that the Harry Dresden building on fire means *you* might get caught in a blazing inferno. Whoops.

Second, it's arrogant as fuck: some Talecrafters avoid it, but the stereotype/bad ending for a lot of Talecrafters is you start to see people as characters. As setting and props and tropes and cliches and fairy-tale things. And yourself as well. You see the world as this not-real thing that you have the power to manipulate, dominate, and decide for. It can make you an asshole, a self-righteous prick, or even a monster if you dive too deep into it, and even if it doesn't, you can start to grow addicted to Talecrafting, for one, and can also start to lose touch with reality, with the fact that the world ISN'T a story with easily definable cliches. Which means someone too far into addiction and Talecrafting Madness would be more likely to make mistaken assumptions based on a world that isn't actually, you know, real most of the time.

All that said, its power and versatility mean that quite a few people pursue it, and a powerful Talecrafter can be scary as fuck.

Does that help?

Your description of Talecrafting and its consequences makes me think of Tarquin from the Order of the Stick.

I presume that there are some things that Talecrafting simply cannot accomplish even with an ideal narrative setup, willingness to suffer any Twists the Wyrd might deliver and sufficent power and skill at ones disposal?
 
Your description of Talecrafting and its consequences makes me think of Tarquin from the Order of the Stick.

I presume that there are some things that Talecrafting simply cannot accomplish even with an ideal narrative setup, willingness to suffer any Twists the Wyrd might deliver and sufficent power and skill at ones disposal?

Likely so. I mean, just because you've Talecrafted yourself as the Plucky Underdog Who Overcomes The Powerful Foe doesn't mean that suddenly you get to beat Mab, even if she is *totally* the Overconfident Enemy Who Is Beaten By the Plucky Underdog.

I mean, I guess if somehow a Changeling became *as* strong as Mab[1] they could use Talecrafting to then give them the edge to put them ahead by a nose, or whatever, but it's not going to just auto-end stuff.

Oh, and for obvious reasons it can't violate metaphysics horribly. Like, you know, you can't bring the dead back to life, even if you *do* use a bunch of Talecrafting to totally make this the 'story' of the Mad Scientist who brings his beloved wife back to life. You can't go back in time even if you deck yourself out with a Doleran...etc, etc. Those kinds of things.

[1] Which isn't possible.
 
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You can't go back in time even if you deck yourself out with a Doleran...etc, etc. Those kinds of things.

Not that changelings can't already fuck with time to some degree. I mean, that "slow time while in the hedge" is hilariously open to abuse... Or at least it would be if the Wyrd (read GM) wouldn't slap down anyone that tried to abuse causality too badly. But if you have a permissive GM...
 
Not that changelings can't already fuck with time to some degree. I mean, that "slow time while in the hedge" is hilariously open to abuse... Or at least it would be if the Wyrd (read GM) wouldn't slap down anyone that tried to abuse causality too badly. But if you have a permissive GM...

Sure, but to note, it doesn't break the Dresden-files universal rules. Time dilation is fine, sending things forward in time is fine...it's when you go back in time that things start to break/go crazy. There is a level of abusing it in which I might actually slap people down, but Hours 4 as a contract is *meant* to be abused like crazy.
 
Like, you know, you can't bring the dead back to life, even if you *do* use a bunch of Talecrafting to totally make this the 'story' of the Mad Scientist who brings his beloved wife back to life.
Wouldn't this also be because the Mad Scientists in these stories don't normally succeed in bringing back their wives - at least not as they want them back. Like, there's lots of things that there aren't many powerful/common tales for, which should also limit the power of talecrafting.
 
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Sure, but to note, it doesn't break the Dresden-files universal rules. Time dilation is fine, sending things forward in time is fine...it's when you go back in time that things start to break/go crazy. There is a level of abusing it in which I might actually slap people down, but Hours 4 as a contract is *meant* to be abused like crazy.

It's the whole "go back in time" thing that I was talking about. Or rather, sending information back in time. Have someone - doesn't mater who - go into the hedge, on a high time multiplier, and have other people enter to convey relevant information to them. Person A then leaves the hedge before the event they were told about happened, allowing them to either change the timeline, or abuse that knowledge for fun and profit. Like say, you give a summary of a battle to the guy in the hedge, and he comes out before the battle starts, and tells the enemy's plans to the generals so they can better plan the attack. That's the sort of abuse I was thinking of.

Now, you could just have the timeline cannot be changed, but in that case it's more a matter of using your knowledge for personal benefit. Like knowing stock prices later in the day, and making a fortune. Or a bunch of other things like that.
 
It's the whole "go back in time" thing that I was talking about. Or rather, sending information back in time. Have someone - doesn't mater who - go into the hedge, on a high time multiplier, and have other people enter to convey relevant information to them. Person A then leaves the hedge before the event they were told about happened, allowing them to either change the timeline, or abuse that knowledge for fun and profit. Like say, you give a summary of a battle to the guy in the hedge, and he comes out before the battle starts, and tells the enemy's plans to the generals so they can better plan the attack. That's the sort of abuse I was thinking of.

Now, you could just have the timeline cannot be changed, but in that case it's more a matter of using your knowledge for personal benefit. Like knowing stock prices later in the day, and making a fortune. Or a bunch of other things like that.

That...isn't how time dilation works. Time still moves forward for both, you just experience it as different subjective times.

If you sent someone into the hedge at a time dilation of 1 hour inside is a minute outside, then waited until the attack to send someone in to tell them about it, from the POV of the outside you send someone in, and seconds later the person in the hedge pops out, ready for battle, but still after you sent the first person in.

From the perspective of the inside, they just spent days waiting for someone to come, because if the attack occurred an hour (outside) after they were sent in, that has been 60 hours of waiting for them, before the news of the attack reached them.
 
That...isn't how time dilation works. Time still moves forward for both, you just experience it as different subjective times.

If you sent someone into the hedge at a time dilation of 1 hour inside is a minute outside, then waited until the attack to send someone in to tell them about it, from the POV of the outside you send someone in, and seconds later the person in the hedge pops out, ready for battle, but still after you sent the first person in.

From the perspective of the inside, they just spent days waiting for someone to come, because if the attack occurred an hour (outside) after they were sent in, that has been 60 hours of waiting for them, before the news of the attack reached them.
Based on the way @The Laurent has portrayed it in his other quest, it does actually work that way. He posits the scenario of someone entering the hedge under time dilation (lets say x2 for simplicity), while someone else enters without it. They spend 2 hours chatting, and then leave the hedge together. While talking to each other, both perceive the other as moving/talking/etc. at normal speeds. But if they try to leave together, the first person's time dilation ends. Person A comes out one hour after they entered, while person 2 comes out 2 hours after they entered. From person B's perspective A vanishes the moment they leave the hedge.

Now suppose that person A goes into the hedge, and arranges for person B to meet him at a known location. Person B tells person C to meet him at the same destination 1.5 hours after he enters. When C gets there, A and B are still both there talking. He then proceeds to tell A about what happened in the past 1/2 hour. When A leaves however, C hasn't even entered the hedge yet, essentially giving A 1/2 hour of future knowledge. As time gaps and time dilation factor increases, it becomes more and more abusable. And I imagine if you could chain a few of these groups together you could probably transmit information back in time an arbitrary distance, limited only by when the chain was established. The only thing keeping this from happening is that the GM (the Wyrd IC) may potentially look down upon this, and start causing problems to would-be time travelers.

Now, another GM might run it a different way, but that's the way he's run it before - not that we've gotten much use out of it, due to our character not actually knowing that contract herself.
 
OOC: I Say I Ain't Gotta Explain Shit About Magic...and then Explain Shit About Magic
Based on the way @The Laurent has portrayed it in his other quest, it does actually work that way. He posits the scenario of someone entering the hedge under time dilation (lets say x2 for simplicity), while someone else enters without it. They spend 2 hours chatting, and then leave the hedge together. While talking to each other, both perceive the other as moving/talking/etc. at normal speeds. But if they try to leave together, the first person's time dilation ends. Person A comes out one hour after they entered, while person 2 comes out 2 hours after they entered. From person B's perspective A vanishes the moment they leave the hedge.

Now suppose that person A goes into the hedge, and arranges for person B to meet him at a known location. Person B tells person C to meet him at the same destination 1.5 hours after he enters. When C gets there, A and B are still both there talking. He then proceeds to tell A about what happened in the past 1/2 hour. When A leaves however, C hasn't even entered the hedge yet, essentially giving A 1/2 hour of future knowledge. As time gaps and time dilation factor increases, it becomes more and more abusable. And I imagine if you could chain a few of these groups together you could probably transmit information back in time an arbitrary distance, limited only by when the chain was established. The only thing keeping this from happening is that the GM (the Wyrd IC) may potentially look down upon this, and start causing problems to would-be time travelers.

Now, another GM might run it a different way, but that's the way he's run it before - not that we've gotten much use out of it, due to our character not actually knowing that contract herself.

First:

Second: Yes, that is indeed how it works, but there are a few difficulties with using it. First, you can't actually *know* how much time dilation you're going to be getting. Hell, bringing along a means of telling time, any means of telling time (which means that literally *being* a Telluric gets a -3 on it, because that's how it rolls) is a -3 to the dice pool. A -3 on a Wits+Wyrd Pool can be devastating unless you're also already pretty powerful. Additionally, if you do fail (say, because you have a pool of 5-6 dice and get unlucky) you have no way of knowing either.

Obviously, in addition to not being able to actually be sure how much time is passing, all members who went in under the 'cloak' of the time have to stay there the whole time, as noted. Any of them leave, and the spell breaks. So you have people bound to stay in the Hedge for a certain amount of time, which means you sure as hell need a Hollow unless you're just screaming "Please attack and murder me while I'm cooling my heels." So you have to have someone enter and leave very specific points to provide you information and then go back and work with that, which means for anything that has even MODERATE opposition from a being that can get involved at some point, it's...not the best idea, unless you start going 'layers of layers of protection and counter-measures' at which point it's no longer a cheap option and damn, son, you must really be desperate.

This also means that as a rule it's pretty kinda shit at, say, use for battle or...any number of things. Now, you can indeed use it and a network to game, say, betting on sports matches. The Wyrd will probably punish you, or your fellows or someone will likely notice, but certainly you could get away with it at least once, if you were willing to put in all of the effort.

A number of Freeholds *do* get some good use out of it, as a location/way of emergency meetings.

Gather at a specific point where a window is visible (-1 if not, so yeah), go through the Hedge, sit down and have the meeting at time dilation, generally ASSUMING x2 dilation and being grateful if it's more than that, because it's best to assume the least possible non-tragic (because you'd have the best person for the job using it, so hopefully they at least wouldn't fail) answer.

All that said, it STILL is very useful in some circumstances.
 
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Early warning system off the top of my head. If someone's in the hedge under time dilation, and a major disaster strikes, immediately find them, have them leave the hedge and warn everyone of impending doom.

Also, I've been thinking about how weird that contract might be for a Fae - or really any hive-minded creature - due to different rates of time passing. Their time-dilated instances could interact with the non-dilated instances, due to their whole being in two places at once shtick. It's very difficult to form a coherent picture of what would happen there, and thinking about it makes my head spin. Guess that's what I get for trying to make sense of the Fae.
 
Early warning system off the top of my head. If someone's in the hedge under time dilation, and a major disaster strikes, immediately find them, have them leave the hedge and warn everyone of impending doom.

Also, I've been thinking about how weird that contract might be for a Fae - or really any hive-minded creature - due to different rates of time passing. Their time-dilated instances could interact with the non-dilated instances, due to their whole being in two places at once shtick. It's very difficult to form a coherent picture of what would happen there, and thinking about it makes my head spin. Guess that's what I get for trying to make sense of the Fae.

By the way, the vote closes tomorrow and I'll be posting the first part of character creation, most likely, then. The other three Monarchs that you don't choose will be done by me, and of course eventually you'll be controlling them (that's how seasonal rotation WORKS) but this will decide how things begin.

Plus, if Autumn wins as it seems to be, I get to show off just what a high-level Sorceress gets to pick from.
 
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