The Life of a Half-Saiyan (Thread1) (DBZ)

Just read the update. That was definitely the best one so far IMO.

You scream, eyebrows boiling away.
You roar, shifting your stance from unguarded agony, into a pitiful mockery of the Demon King ready stance
Tears well up, but this form does not have tear ducts. So you endure.
You Endure. For Gossard's sake. Eternal agony wreaks havoc within you, but you Endure. Because Gossard Briefs could never, ever, live without you to hold him back from doing some impossibly Stupid.
You Endure as your hair extends. Inch by impossible inch. Down to your waist.
You ASCEND within an Ascension. Holding the form by pure FORCE OF WILL.

^Holy crap, this kid isn't even four yet. That is some insane pain tolerance and willpower. Actually, is Gohan going to get a willpower boost from this? Because that was absolutely badass.
 
Just read the update. That was definitely the best one so far IMO.



^Holy crap, this kid isn't even four yet. That is some insane pain tolerance and willpower. Actually, is Gohan going to get a willpower boost from this? Because that was absolutely badass.

Thank you.
And he gets both Endurance and Will boosts

what about Super Saiyan Primate (canon SS4) that would be in the Brown/Yellow and is a ridiculous power boost, is that the pinacle Of Brown/Yellow, is that what the incomplete imperfect Pillar of Brown/Yellow is?

Brown/Yellow 2
It is to the Golden Ape what Super Saiyan 2 is to Super Saiyan
 
Actually, I may as well ask the QM; about how low can we push our Instinct without hitting a substantial power cap in Legendary, and is that a limitation that later Green forms are likely to share?

In the same vein, how low would our Instinct need to be for a theoretical adult Gossard to place some value on human life in general?

I'm not looking for a theoretical pacifist or anything, but it'd be nice to have a target for where he's more likely to injure or humiliate a nonthreatening disrespectful human than outright murder them, and can generally participate in human society without Gohan to calm him down whenever anything minor upsets him. I figure at least part of that needs to be character growth outside of just mastering his basic instincts, but it'd be nice to have a ballpark figure of when that's possible-ish.

Ideally we'd discover a way to keep a high Instinct score without suffering the negative effects as badly (something like Vegeta's parental trait), but that aside I'd rather aim for some sort of happy medium.
Achieving a Green form without as strict emotive controls on us would also work.
 
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Actually, I may as well ask the QM; about how low can we push our Instinct without hitting a substantial power cap in Legendary, and is that a limitation that later Green forms are likely to share?

In the same vein, how low would our Instinct need to be for a theoretical adult Gossard to place some value on human life in general?

I'm not looking for a theoretical pacifist or anything, but it'd be nice to have a target for where he's more likely to injure or humiliate a nonthreatening disrespectful human than outright murder them, and can generally participate in human society without Gohan to calm him down whenever anything minor upsets him.

Ideally we'd discover a way to keep a high Instinct score without suffering the negative effects as badly (something like Vegeta's parental trait), but that aside I'd rather aim for some sort of happy medium.
Achieving a Green form without as strict emotive controls on us would also work.

I'm on my phone so a more comprehensive answer will have to wait but quickly:

Define substantial? The max non-combat Legend modifier will always be held down by Instinct, even at 3,000
You have no clue about the further Green states

You are at it, you just need to make Gossard think like Gilgamesh or someone. That citizens have worth as your citizens, your property.
You won't kill people for disrespect, unless you are in a bad mood. You will kill them if it is more expedient too (for instance that group of protesters trying to stop you entering someplace will die screaming, but if they kept their distance and yelled you would at most cripple for life their leader)
Humiliation is always worse than death for a Saiyan, so it is a better punishment to a Saiyan as well.

Vegeta doesn't have a parental trait, he legit lost Instinct for being a parent. He would have made a terrible Legend in the Buu Saga
 
huh...we can be like Gilgamesh, we even have our own Enkidu in the form of our twin. This...is something that can work
 
huh...we can be like Gilgamesh, we even have our own Enkidu in the form of our twin. This...is something that can work
Course, it only works as long as Gottex, Gohan, and Bulma are alive.

Without them... Well. We become Fate/Stay Gil rather than Awesome Enkidu gil or Extra CCC Gil.

Hmm.... Maybe it might be a good idea to start up our own enterprise.
 
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Vegeta doesn't have a parental trait, he legit lost Instinct for being a parent. He would have made a terrible Legend in the Buu Saga

I'm talking about the trait we would've gotten from choosing him as a parent, the "easier to master your Saiyan Instincts" one. Though I seem to recall discussing that before here, and maybe it actually does mean that your Instinct is just easier to lower? Eh, sort of irrelevant anyway.

In any case, useful answers.

Legend's ramp is basically fueled by Instinct, not capped by it, so it's not like there's a dangerous level we can't drop beneath at which it becomes useless; it's just the bonus becomes less substantial the less Instinct we have to feed into it. This becomes less relevant the less we need to rely on Legendary for PL boosts; it's still useful for the perfect ki control.

Mysterious answer is mysterious; it's probably worth it to check what the other Green forms are like. Judging from other forms, I theorize one grants us substantially more control over our mental state, and the other substantially less. I imagine the Perfect form of Legendary will require us to completely subsume the consciousness that makes up the core of Legend.

"Gilgamesh" is still a wide swath of emotional territory to cover, considering how mercurial the dude is. Still, we can work with it; it's just a matter of developing Gossard's moral system to be a little broader than "me Me ME!".

Even Gilgamesh had an appreciation for beauty and respect for noble rivals.
 
"Gilgamesh" is still a wide swath of emotional territory to cover, considering how mercurial the dude is. Still, we can work with it; it's just a matter of developing Gossard's moral system to be a little broader than "me Me ME!".

Even Gilgamesh had an appreciation for beauty and respect for noble rivals.
Well, it's not like Gossard is starting from scratch.

We have his family for one. Which is much more than gil had considering he hated most of his family. Aka, the gods.
There's also the fact that we haven't really met anyone considered a worthy rival. But we do have a broader moral system than just me me me, considering we're actually kind of attached to Piccolo for his training. And we do have an appreciation for Science.
 
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You act like Gossard doesn't have that.

We has his family for one. Which is much more than gil had considering he hated most of his family. Aka, the gods.
There's also the fact that we haven't really met anyone considered a worthy rival. But we do have a broader moral system than just me me me, considering we're actually kind of attached to Piccolo for his training. And we do have an appreciation for Science.

We're still a child and still have an immature way of interacting with the world. Gossard's not going to be emotionally stagnant through puberty and beyond; we even have QM confirmation that Instincts become a more powerful influence as we reach adulthood.

As he gets older, Gossard's ingrained values will start to overshadow childish motivations like what our Mother told us to do for some unsubstantiated reason or irrational first impressions (Green man stole our green! Goku fed us with a too-hot bottle). We'll likely be devoted to our family forever, but that'll stop being our sole important motivation once we're past puberty and we get the urge to leave the nest.

We're capable of appreciating things like beauty or other people, but it's not a pillar of our motivation. Beauty was a central organizing principle to Gilgamesh, and one of the ways he measured the worth of things. He could even tolerate insubordination and defiance against him if he discerned that was part of its beauty.

Likewise, respect for worthy opponents with strong values was also an ingrained principle, probably a result of Enkidu's influence on his psyche; even if they weren't physically strong as he was, Gilgamesh could respect those whose' passion and confidence could rival him.

And naturally, an ego that matches your titanic power. Though you will admit to not being God, that's only because your sister is God. You instead (at this point, you can still character develop) focus on your racial heritage.
Both as a member of a self-evidently incredibly powerful species and as the Eldest son of Bulma Briefs. This may cause issues if Gohan gets 'bullied' and doesn't stand up for himself in Gossard's presence, since both Gohan and he are twins and from the same source, the source you hold all your prode in, you will take insults to him personally

This is basically what I'm referring to. As is, Gossard's most important defining characteristic of himself is that he's a Briefs, and he's had a defining characteristic thrust upon him of being part of the LEGEND. Everything constituting what's important to him is caught up in his qualifications, what comes to make 'him'. Thus, ultimately all decisions come down to "what does this mean for me?", which is sort of dangerously selfish.

Imagine a Gilgamesh driven only by his identity as a two-thirds God and King of Man and you'll see what I'm trying to avert.
 
i think magic will be good for gossard, as it will demonstrate that some things when used correctly, can still beat sheer power - and more importantly, he will be the one wielding and capable of developing that power. maybe, just maybe, it will open his eyes to things not involving science and supersaiyan power/martial arts, and give him the motivation to pursue them.
 
(Green man stole our green! Goku fed us with a too-hot bottle)

This is basically what I'm referring to. As is, Gossard's most important defining characteristic of himself is that he's a Briefs, and he's had a defining characteristic thrust upon him of being part of the LEGEND. Everything constituting what's important to him is caught up in his qualifications, what comes to make 'him'. Thus, ultimately all decisions come down to "what does this mean for me?", which is sort of dangerously selfish.

You dislike and distrust Goku for more than the bottle. The only lasting impression of that is the distrust of Goku+Food

And your conclusion does not follow from your premise
Gossard sees himself through his heritage (both Saiyan and Briefs), and that makes him selfish?

A bit elitist maybe, Malfoy-ish but not selfish.
Things that define him are by definition things that define him. That's not selfish, that's a tautology.

What is important to him is a Challenge, of the Mind (science), Body (Power Levels) and Soul (Meditation on Instinct). Though admittedly Gossard will care less about non-martial conflict if you don't do more Science or find a different competition.
He also values Family, much more than the average Saiyan, though following the Saiyan interpretation of Family which lacks a Patriarch.

You don't care much for Beauty though, you much prefer utilitarian aesthetics (except coloured Blue, you find Blue very calming) as that way you compete more. Your engines aren't pretty but they were effective (though never as effective as Gohan, which is what caused this, constant losing made you focus more on improving the end result at the expense of extraneous additions)
 
You dislike and distrust Goku for more than the bottle. The only lasting impression of that is the distrust of Goku+Food

And your conclusion does not follow from your premise
Gossard sees himself through his heritage (both Saiyan and Briefs), and that makes him selfish?

A bit elitist maybe, Malfoy-ish but not selfish.
Things that define him are by definition things that define him. That's not selfish, that's a tautology.

What is important to him is a Challenge, of the Mind (science), Body (Power Levels) and Soul (Meditation on Instinct). Though admittedly Gossard will care less about non-martial conflict if you don't do more Science or find a different competition.
He also values Family, much more than the average Saiyan, though following the Saiyan interpretation of Family which lacks a Patriarch.

You don't care much for Beauty though, you much prefer utilitarian aesthetics (except coloured Blue, you find Blue very calming) as that way you compete more. Your engines aren't pretty but they were effective (though never as effective as Gohan, which is what caused this, constant losing made you focus more on improving the end result at the expense of extraneous additions)

So what I'm gettin from this is I should ship Gossard and Vados.

Blue and she could probably kick his ass.
 
@lordchaos99

Would this be a valid write in for next turn?

[] Mister Piccolo has tought you a lot and now he was mindcontrolled by some vermin. That is unacceptable, your teacher has to be better than that! Teach him how to resist such things by simply not accepting that anyone could have power over his mind! Teach him Saiyan PRIDE!

Basically the Vegeta-method of resisting mindcontrol while pushing him towards another possible transformation.
 
Nah, Saiyan guys like stubborn girls. Strength is optional.

@lordchaos99

Would this be a valid write in for next turn?

[] Mister Piccolo has tought you a lot and now he was mindcontrolled by some vermin. That is unacceptable, your teacher has to be better than that! Teach him how to resist such things by simply not accepting that anyone could have power over his mind! Teach him Saiyan PRIDE!

Basically the Vegeta-method of resisting mindcontrol while pushing him towards another possible transformation.

You can totally try that, yes.
 
You dislike and distrust Goku for more than the bottle. The only lasting impression of that is the distrust of Goku+Food

I'm aware, it was just an example. Young children make immediate value-judgement based on short-term positive and negative reinforcement. As they age, they learn to make judgements based on other things, such long-term benefit and principles/morals.

And your conclusion does not follow from your premise
Gossard sees himself through his heritage (both Saiyan and Briefs), and that makes him selfish?

A bit elitist maybe, Malfoy-ish but not selfish.
Things that define him are by definition things that define him. That's not selfish, that's a tautology.


...I admit, I'm having a significant amount of difficulty in even understanding how it is you're reading that into what I'm writing. I'll try and see if I can't avoid talking past you.

My premise is that there are two things important to Gossard as an axiom: the Briefs, and the Legend. Everything else he psychologically values ultimately derives from this, or from his biological needs and reactions. The fact that these are also the groups that include he himself in is relevant, but not necessarily the case; it is entirely possible for someone to value things axiomatically that don't include themselves.

For instance, the given example is Gilgamesh, who axiomatically values Beauty-- and in a specifically different way than how he values his own perfection. Because of this axiom, he may take actions in contradiction with his other axioms (such as, for instance, his rightful place of supremacy above all other living things) in the name of protecting or sustaining this beauty. This isn't to say Gossard should also axiomatically value Beauty, but to give an example of an external value that can win out against a selfish value.

A selfish value is defined in this context as "an axiomatic value that is inseparable from one's self". A simple biological example of a selfish value would be "Pleasure". Selfish values are psychological values that work to encourage actions that benefit the self, by definition, and are both normal and expected in young children, who generally won't have many axiomatic beliefs anyway.

My argument is that all of Gossard's axioms are generally expressed in selfish values.

Ex.,
"I can't lose because I am a Briefs / The Legend / Do not want to get hurt!"
"I need to get more powerful because I am a Briefs! / the LEGEND! / It feels good!"
"I want to hurt this person for disrespecting me, a Briefs / The Legend / and making me feel bad!"

And to be entirely clear, I know they don't have to be; in fact, axiomatically working in the interests of the Briefs by necessity means there's an external value he's expressing in regards to his family.

"I have to stop somebody from hurting Gohan because he's a Briefs / my twin"

That's definitely a case where Gossard might contradict a selfish value of his own in service of this external value... but you'll definitely note it still has a selfish twist to it, in that most of the reasoning is the same as what he uses to justify stopping people from hurting him, just without the physiological value added to it.

The importance of acquiring external values is important because it defines how your way of thinking matures as you grow up. The adult mind is less capable of picking up new axioms and generally just finds new ways to shape the ones it has already established; by age 30ish, it's effectively impossible to change how you fundamentally think about things.

The danger of Gossard growing up without expanding the ways he makes judgement about things is that he'll just frankly never be able to relate to people, having always determined the worth of things based on their relation to the Briefs, the Legend, himself, or furthering the cause of one of those three things. Gilgamesh, again as an example, is clearly still capable of relating to the problems of others, and in fact is seen taking interest in the affairs of others for reasons beyond his own personal benefit on several occasions, even if he doesn't design to bother for most.

...So, yeah, selfish.

I'm actually confused about why that was a thing you were stuck on; you even explicitly compared his personality to Gilgamesh, who's one of the most gleefully frank fictional characters about his selfishness I've ever seen. Indeed, one of his most famous scenes is berating someone who called themselves a king while being self-less, something he considers false on the face of it. Pride and egoism are fundamentally connected to being selfish; my only concern is that we should ensure that's not the only way Gossard can interact with people.

What is important to him is a Challenge, of the Mind (science), Body (Power Levels) and Soul (Meditation on Instinct). Though admittedly Gossard will care less about non-martial conflict if you don't do more Science or find a different competition.
He also values Family, much more than the average Saiyan, though following the Saiyan interpretation of Family which lacks a Patriarch.

I didn't get a particular impression, so far anyway, that Gossard valued challenge for its own sake beyond the opportunity it offers to demonstrate his (/the Briefs/the Legend) superiority over whatever. Though you could probably make an argument that he values victory for its own sake.

Goku, for instance, strikes me as someone that values challenge axiomatically rather than for the sake of superiority, which is one reason why he shies away from killing his enemies; dead opponents can't come back for a rematch, after all (without dragon balls anyway).

I'd have labelled his axiom 'family' rather than 'the Briefs', but you specifically pointed out the Briefs name earlier so I figured he had some sort of pride in the title beyond the fact it's made up of his family. The difference is basically just if he feels pride in himself and/or superiority over others for being a Briefs while they aren't.

...Holy shit this got waaaay more into detail than I was ever planning to go.

*quick definitions for how I'm using words if anyone got lost during that:

Axiom: a fundamental belief that governs action without any chain of logic leading to it. Axioms are irrational (in that they don't need to be rationalized, not that they're nonsensical) governing idea that forms the basis of psychological judgement-making.

Value: A metric by which you judge something and decide action. Values are derived from your axioms, or your physiological reactions.

External Value: A value that functions based on something entirely separate from the self.

Selfish Value: A value that functions based on something integral to the self.
 
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Oooh, I understand now.
Yeah my mistake, I'm an idiot.

Also despite losing every Hoverchair-Fight, Gossard still builds them, in fact nearly the first thing he did after the Piccolo-Kidnapping was build one and promptly lose to Gohan. He values challenge and victory as separate and awesome things.
 
I really need to remember the Tail bonus more often...messes up my calculations.
Bah, I'm going to go add it to the base PL now so I wont forget.
 
Wonder Twins, or Meteor?
You move Faster than you ever have before. An Emerald shield forming to block his jab, you let it shatter, it's job done. You flare across the sky, shockwaves from your passage buffeting the smoking crater that was a historical relic of a simpler time.
You are strong than him. In both Power and Strength, you outweigh your crazed brother as you dance amongst gale force winds and through his guard. His body lean and suited for speed, almost too much
Every subjective second burns through your reserves, every action tearing another drop from a dry riverbed but you Keep Moving. His speed is immense, a full thirteen Million units dedicated to running rings around you.

But that speed came at a cost. With your reverse engineered Emerald shield his blows simply falter. Your return blows are simple dodged but you do not care, eventually he will fa-ACK! Pain rushes through your body as the immensely draining form seeks even more. You don't have the time. Every instant tears at you, you can feel the tumultuous form receding even as you hold it close.
You Need to finish this quickly. A powerful technique that can actually hit Gossard with his weakened but agile form. You search your mind for something, anything, as you launch a barrage of counter-attacks.
The force of impact from your blows echo behind Gossard, even with your protective Energies mingling with the air. You are not used to this level of combat.

And then you feel it. A rib cracking under your assault. You actually landed a blow. You grin in triumph, only to see Gossard's smarmy smirk.
"You think that's all it takes to bring down ME!" He roars, and you curse his endurance. That inability to stay down, even despite his relatively weak and thin figure. Pain makes itself known again, your spine cracking with the force only to be perfectly fine a second later. Illusions of Stamina-draining transformations aside, you redouble your attack. Burning through hidden reserves you didn't know you had just to stay in the Ascended Super Saiyan form.
Your opponent, that mentally ill idiotic Twin of yours, grins the entire time. You can practically hear his blood Sing at the rush of combat.

You politely ignore your own singing blood, this is important. You grin in exaltation, lost in the furious dance. You know his every move before he makes it, and it is barely enough to pull ahead. Each punch tearing through his swift defenses. Each one drawing him ever closer to defeat, just as each subjective minute draws you closer to your limit.
His Aura burns pure orange, the unsettling tint remaining on his hair and skin. Ripples of pure power emanate from both of you as you clash and disengage. Golden Yellow against Princeton Orange, both Auras flickering in uncertainty.
Yours from growing exhaustion. His from the nature of the form itself.

You flash-step behind him, hands together in a brutal haymaker.
"Time is up." you hear in your head, as Princeton deepens to a deep Tawny shade. You look down at your fist, held in Gossards hand almost casually. I feel strange, you felt rather disoriented as if you would feel like up was down and the strange presence expands within your mind.
"Good match Gohan." You hear whispered into my mind. It rushes from your brain, the sudden loss stunning you for a single moment. And in that moment you see the prideful grin of your Twin. And then pain blossoms from your stomach and blackness overtakes you.

You will get him back for this.

---

You watch your brother look at you shocked and betrayed. His eventual revenge will be so worth that priceless look.
You take a moment to revel in the Power of your new form. You quite like it. It feels like the Yellow of Gohan but not, a tint or simply very similar.
A name echoes in your mind, though you do not like the connotations. You slowly Descend from False Super Gossard, down into the False Super Saiyan form, and then again. Your hair returning to it's natural black and your pupils reappearing.

You catch your determined little brother and float down into the crater. You have a Makyan to incinerate.

---

"Castle Makyan has been destroyed in a freak meteor shower. Reports are coming in that the sudden shower destroyed this historical site late this afternoon. Witnesses report seeing atmospheric disturbances and a pillar of red, followed by several loud impacts culminating in a titanic explosion, that destroyed the site." The reporter explains to the cameraman. Her back to the still-glowing cater that was Gohan's Ascension.
"This site was said to be the homelands of the Makyan people, a dwindling tribe of elfin appearance. Myth states that the castle itself was built around the fallen starship that carried them to this world. The site had fallen into disrepair since the Makyans migrated south three hundred years ago, in the Four Hundredth Century but prior was the cultural center of their empire. The nominal owner, a reclusive Makyan by the name of Garlic Junior, was unavailable for comment. This marks the fall of the last Makyan Cultural Heritage Site. This is Hazel Noudelle from Channel Five, signing off."

---

"In other news," The news anchor states, tapping his papers against the desk "the recent spring of industrial thefts shows no signs of stopping. The mysterious thief struck again in broad daylight, removing several tonnes of processed metals from a Refinery. An eye-witness at the scene reports the perpetrators to be a trio, two women and a young teenaged boy who used numbered codenames. They were seen wearing insignias of the defunct Red Ribbon Army, causing some to speculate they may be operatives from a reforming Army, though others believe it to simply be an intimidation tactic. For more, we turn to our roving reporter Coffey. Coffey?"
He turns as the view shifts.

---

"Capsule Corporation stocks have risen again this week, on a tidal wave of gratitude and the smell of profit in the water. The new and patented cybernetic attachments showcased last season at the Brief Expo have made their public debut, with CapsuleCorp CEO, Doctor Jock Briefs personally overseeing the first surgery. In a generous donation, the first one thousand of each of the artificial limbs were given free to patients formerly disabled for life." The newscaster says.
"These miraculous devices link up to the patient's nervous system to provide Peak-Human artificial limbs. Testing has shown a 99.999% adoption rate with no notable negative side-effects, even in failed attachments. With this coming on the heels of the newly developed advances in genome and epigenome alteration allowing unborn babies with genetic defects to have the effects cured before their birth, pioneered by his daughter Bulma Briefs, it seems very likely that CapsuleCorp is going to be the forefront of yet another sweeping change for the better."

---

Please select your Interlude. Whichever you do not choose, will not happen. So select very carefully.

[X] A Prophetic Present to an Orphaned Son
[ ] A Number, Increments Upwards
[ ] Freedom At Last
[ ] The Golden Apple
[ ] A Cooler Universe
 
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