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The Game of Crusading Thrones, Self-Insert Edition (GoT CK2)

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Thanatosra said:
how about building a bank (also need to hide so faceless men don't try to kill us for challenging the iron bank)
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I mean not really. Banks existed and there are plenty of financial institutions all around Essos already. Each of the Free Cities has its own bank. The Iron Bank is just the most famous

Edit: And lends the most money.
 
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Marlowe310811 said:
I can see the sense in it, but if it involves balancing politics, I want to take the time to game through the best options, potential outcomes, whose hands need holding as a result, etc. It'll keep for one round.
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Has the information recently given by the GM resolved this in your mind? I feel that we understand the effects pretty well. If we grant a town charter to the Glovers (without any other action) it will be taken as a subtle rebuke of the Dustins, and subtle reward to the Western Lords. It will probably eventually result in the Boltons asking for a town charter, though not right away. It might also encourage the Dustins to greater efforts to please us in the hopes of a city charter for Barrowtown.

Also, it's worth thinking about what we want, and eventually we do want a town in the Glovers land as a trading port and we probably also want to have a town in the Boltons land (though that will open up it's own issues with other lords). We probably want a town at Torren's Lake, and in the Rills as well. Barrowtown upgraded to a city. Maybe a town on Flint's Finger, and at Karhold, though those are less certain. It seems to me that a Town Charter now in the Glover's land is not really going to mess up those plans, and might even help open the path towards those other actions.

It seems to me then that the Town Charter for the Glovers is a pretty solid choice. What specifically are you worried about?

One Autumn Leaf said:
Can we make the Venetian Arsenal? Would that be something we can uplift?
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More like we need to take a whole bunch of individual actions to eventually reach that. Long term plans, not a short term one.
 
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[X] Plan: Diplomacy and Learning

-[X] Issue Command (Western Lords): Establish a Shipyard on the Bay of Ice in the Glover lands, with easy access to the Wolfswood. Resources: Gold: 550, a town charter at the selected location.

-[X] Issue Command (Manderly): Trade delegation to Braavos to secure a trade agreement. Resources: Gold: 300, Influence 1, Edwyle dispatched with them to provide the weight of his title, and any assistance he can offer. Ask Edwyle to visit the Isle of the Gods while he is there and see what he can learn, also make any contacts he can with various Braavosi artisans and engineers.

Martial:
-[X] Train the Scouts: Brandon and the Ghost-folk are incredibly stealthy. It seems likely that this has something to do with those cloaks you see sometimes, but it's also at least partly mundane skill. Have them show this to your Scouts and make them even stealthier. Time: 1 season. Cost: 150 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Winterfell Scouts better trained, more recruits.

-[X] Gifted Warriors: There are nearly a thousand wargs in Wintertown, and more scattered about your lands. There are a few hundred men and women blessed with incredible strength, albeit not to the level of the Mormont berserkers. There are people who can heal with a touch, people who can steal the courage of their foes with a song…the blessings of the Old Gods are many and mighty. Brandon intends to organize some of the Gifted into a force to be reckoned with upon the battlefield, or possibly in the more strategic sense. He has filled papers with possible uses for wargs alone – everything from delivering messages to using armored bulls as living battering rams. Time: 3 seasons. Cost: 600 gold, upkeep. DC: 55. Reward: Some sort of Gifted force attached to Winterfell guard. Type will be determined by dice rolls.

Diplomacy:
-[X] Speak to the Sept: The Snowy Sept has no real influence or power in the North, but they could be useful in gaining leverage with southern houses and kingdoms. Perhaps if the High Septon spoke in your favor, it might even make King Lorren decided to be reasonable. Similarly, there could be information in the Snowy Sept about what exactly is happening in Oldtown. Have Septon Willem, the ambitious septon you have heard about, attend you to speak on his ambitions and the situation in the Starry Sept. Perhaps you could even offer him some support. Time: 1 season. Cost: 25 gold. DC: 15. Reward: Information on Septon Willem and the Starry Sept.

-[X] Speak to Kings (The Reach): There are other kings to the south of you. Perhaps you should open up talks with one of them. Though all of them are Andals and ironborn, you doubt any of them would outright refuse you…Time: 1 season. Cost: 50 gold. DC: 50. Reward: Positive diplomatic contact.

Stewardship:
-[X] FREE ACTION: Issue a Charter (Where the Shipyard is in the Glover's land): There are other places in the North that could reasonably be called towns or even a city. Barrowton is on the cusp where you could justify giving it a city charter. The castle town below Deepwood Motte is almost as large as Wintertown. There are a few other places, like the Dreadfort, that could also arguably deserve a town charter. Of course, the politics of giving such a charter would be somewhat complicated – every house has rivals you would need to placate. Time: 1 season. Cost: 50 gold, 2 Influence. DC: 25. Reward: Charter issued, opinion gained, increase to trade.

-[X] Setting Standards: You have designed your standard weight and measure system and found semi-logical reasons for them. Now comes the difficult part: getting others to use them. While everyone can see the benefit, deciding who needs to change tends to be troublesome. Fortunately, you are the king and can simply order people to use your system, although that's only really practical in Wintertown thanks to the Snowcloaks and your civil service being so efficient. Arrange a meeting with the not-quite guildmasters and the head of the smith's guild, give your orders to the King's Men in Wintertown who run the bureaucracy, and have the standard system spread across Wintertown and some of the immediate neighborhood. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 300 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Standard weights and measures system used in Wintertown and surrounding areas. Note: may cause temporary issues with trade. (+15)

-[X] From Wool To Yarn: You have arranged for a sheep farming business that is doing well enough, but you want to improve it. Selling yarn is much more valuable than selling raw wool. Hire some more workers and have them scour and card the raw wool and make it into yarn to sell. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 200 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Increase to trade. (+15)

Learning:
-[X] Copper on Ships: You have described the way to attach copper to ships so that it doesn't fall off, but the details are somewhat vague. You know it has something to do with the nails…fortunately its simple enough to dump some salt in water and set something up to test a few possible methods. Maybe it's the material the nails are made of? Maester Brynden will try some different materials and report back on what seems to work. And then he will test it on a small boat to make sure it works. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 350 gold. DC: 45. Reward: New action unlocked.

Piety: All Locked

Intrigue:
-[X] Further Afield (Iron Isles): You have ways of hearing what happens in the immediate south, but now you find yourself concerned with what's happening even further away. Pick a kingdom or nation and let Snow get to work. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 100 gold. DC: Varies. Reward: Rumor mill for chosen location.
--[X] DOUBLE DOWN on Further Afield (Iron Isles) 100 gold

-[X] Scouting the Sept: The Snowy Sept has no real influence or power in the North, but they could be useful in gaining leverage with southern houses and kingdoms. Perhaps if the High Septon spoke in your favor, it might even make King Lorren decided to be reasonable. Similarly, there could be information in the Snowy Sept about what exactly is happening in Oldtown. Have your men inside the Snowy Sept gather what information they can find on both Septon Willem and the situation in the Starry Sept and report to you. Time: 1 season. Cost: 25 gold. DC: 15. Reward: Information on Septon Willem and the Starry Sept.

Personal:
-[X] Speak to an Advisor: Maester Brynden. You want to know more about the people you work with. Time: 1 season. Cost: 0. DC: 50. Reward: Gain knowledge of an advisor, improved opinion.

Total Cost: 2800
Expected Treasury Next Turn: 6465

Pursues the Manderly quest, deals with the Most Devout showing up in White Harbor, subtly rebukes the Dustins, while rewarding the Glovers, gets some info coming in on the Iron Isles, while reaching out to the Reach to see if they might be interested in some Ironborn... rehabilitation.

EDIT: Switched out Expanding Schools for Copper on Ships, since apparently despite everyone saying they wanted the school's they actually don't care.
 
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[X] Plan Dreams of Cider

-[X] Issue Command (Western Lords): Establish a Shipyard on the Bay of Ice in the Glover lands, with easy access to the Wolfswood. Resources: Gold: 550, a town charter at the selected location.

-[X] Issue Command (Manderly): Trade delegation to Braavos to secure a trade agreement. Resources: Gold: 300, Influence 1, Edwyle dispatched with them to provide the weight of his title, and any assistance he can offer. Ask Edwyle to visit the Isle of the Gods while he is there and see what he can learn, also make any contacts he can with various Braavosi artisans and engineers.

Military: (Choose 2)
-[X] Expand the Guard: Alternately, you could directly expand the Winterfell Guard. Increasing their size will upset your vassals less, since the cost will be borne entirely by you, and having the entire under your direct command is a comfort as well. If you increase the size of the guard anymore after this, you will likely need to build new barracks for them though. Time: 1 season. Cost: 800 gold, chance of vassal approval, high upkeep increase. DC: 45. Reward: Winterfell Guard increased in size.
-[X] Train the Scouts: Brandon and the Ghost-folk are incredibly stealthy. It seems likely that this has something to do with those cloaks you see sometimes, but it's also at least partly mundane skill. Have them show this to your Scouts and make them even stealthier. Time: 1 season. Cost: 150 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Winterfell Scouts better trained, more recruits.

Diplomacy: (Choose 2)
-[X] A Polite Punishment (House): While a king can easily show favor, disfavor can also be demonstrated through slights and insults, both subtle and vicious. When a house disobeys you or a noble displeases you, a polite, restrained show of your displeasure can accomplish much to ensure they will correct themselves and serve as a warning to other houses who might consider testing you. Of course, pushing too far can cause unrest and trouble with the house in question and possibly others as well. Time: 1 season. Cost: 50 gold, 1 Influence. DC: 25/50/75. Reward: general vassal opinion boost, house opinion loss, 1d2-1 Influence/general vassal opinion boost, 1d2+1 Influence/ general vassal opinion boost, house opinion boost, 1d3+1 Influence.
--[X] double-down

-[X] Speak to the Sept: The Snowy Sept has no real influence or power in the North, but they could be useful in gaining leverage with southern houses and kingdoms. Perhaps if the High Septon spoke in your favor, it might even make King Lorren decided to be reasonable. Similarly, there could be information in the Snowy Sept about what exactly is happening in Oldtown. Have Septon Willem, the ambitious septon you have heard about, attend you to speak on his ambitions and the situation in the Starry Sept. Perhaps you could even offer him some support. Time: 1 season. Cost: 25 gold. DC: 15. Reward: Information on Septon Willem and the Starry Sept.

Stewardship: (Choose 2) (+1 Free Action)
-[X] From Wool To Yarn: You have arranged for a sheep farming business that is doing well enough, but you want to improve it. Selling yarn is much more valuable than selling raw wool. Hire some more workers and have them scour and card the raw wool and make it into yarn to sell. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 300 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Increase to trade.
-[X] Improve Roads (Advanced): Use the concrete and hard labor to build Roman roads all around Winterfell and Wintertown, greatly facilitating trade and increasing the speed of travel all throughout your domain. Costly, but certainly worth it. Time: 5 seasons. Cost: 1700 gold, upkeep. DC: 50. Reward: Really good roads all through your lands, increase to trade.
-[X] FREE ACTION: Issue a Charter (Where the Shipyard is in the Glover's land): There are other places in the North that could reasonably be called towns or even a city. Barrowton is on the cusp where you could justify giving it a city charter. The castle town below Deepwood Motte is almost as large as Wintertown. There are a few other places, like the Dreadfort, that could also arguably deserve a town charter. Of course, the politics of giving such a charter would be somewhat complicated – every house has rivals you would need to placate. Time: 1 season. Cost: 50 gold, 2 Influence. DC: 25. Reward: Charter issued, opinion gained, increase to trade.

Learning: (Choose 1)
-[X] Search for Prophecies: Locked 1 season.
-[X] Copper on Ships: You have described the way to attach copper to ships so that it doesn't fall off, but the details are somewhat vague. You know it has something to do with the nails…fortunately its simple enough to dump some salt in water and set something up to test a few possible methods. Maybe it's the material the nails are made of? Maester Brynden will try some different materials and report back on what seems to work. And then he will test it on a small boat to make sure it works. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 350 gold. DC: 45. Reward: New action unlocked.

Piety: (Choose 0)
-[X] The Barrow Seeking: Locked 1 season
-[X] Strange Magics: Locked 2 seasons

Intrigue: (Choose 2)
-[X] Spies in the Citadel: While the Hightower is besieged and the Starry Sept is a bloody killing ground, the Citadel has weathered this storm with surprising ease thanks to old spells carved within the stones and providing frequent aid to the Changelings. The Maesters claim neutrality in all things, but you doubt that – they certainly did not like you until very recently. Plant a few minor nobles as acolytes and give them orders to send frequent letters home telling you about the going-ons at the Citadel. You will also take the opportunity to place some more men in the Reach. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 300 gold, upkeep. DC: 30. Reward: More information on Oldtown/the Citadel. Simple spy network (the Reach).
-[X] Further Afield (Iron Isles): You have ways of hearing what happens in the immediate south, but now you find yourself concerned with what's happening even further away. Pick a kingdom or nation and let Snow get to work. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 100 gold. DC: Varies. Reward: Rumor mill for chosen location.

Personal: (Choose 1)
-[X] Beast Bonding: Go riding in the Wolfswood and find a worthy beast to bond with. You aren't entirely certain what the side effects would be. Time: 1 season. Cost: 0. DC: Special. Reward: You get some sort of beast bond, possible side effects.
-[X] Train Your Children (Diplomacy): Locked 1 season


Treasury: 5660 gold
Net Income: 3605 gold

-950 (Martial) -75 (Diplomacy) -2050 (Stewardship) -350 (Learning) -600 (Intrigue) -850 (Influence) = 4875 gold
Treasury after round: 4390 gold

The plans name is because apples can grow in the north and that means the Cider business.

Edit: The plan is similar to @Marlowe310811 but with the caveat of changing out the Schooling action. I feel like the Town Charter would give us benefits sooner.
 
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Thanatosra said:
how about building a bank (also need to hide so faceless men don't try to kill us for challenging the iron bank)
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the faceless men are not the personal enforcers of the iron bank or the city of Bravos for that matter , its just that they have better access to them cause they are in the same city also the faceless men are not there first resort but there last as the faceless men are incredibly almost unreasonably expensive and they don't always take gold as a rule whatever payment they take will always be something there client considers valuable
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
The plan is similar to @Marlowe310811 but with the caveat of changing out the Schooling action. I feel like the Town Charter would give us benefits sooner.
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I can work with it. I'm not wild about spending a Stewardship slot on it, but I'm not gonna compose an entire second vote over one thing. Just a reminder that we should get to the school/literacy stuff sooner rather than later, and hopefully (if the charter doesn't take the +15) we can use the last bonus later.

[X] Plan Dreams of Cider

...although, it's not a Tolkien quote... :p
 
Marlowe310811 said:
I can work with it. I'm not wild about spending a Stewardship slot on it, but I'm not gonna compose an entire second vote over one thing. Just a reminder that we should get to the school/literacy stuff sooner rather than later, and hopefully (if the charter doesn't take the +15) we can use the last bonus later.
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Next turn is what I was hoping for with that one. It would be in the Fall season and would give still leave us with plenty of time to do it. Maybe also a copy book learning action then also. To satisfy the Merchants.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
-[X] Expand the Guard: Alternately, you could directly expand the Winterfell Guard. Increasing their size will upset your vassals less, since the cost will be borne entirely by you, and having the entire under your direct command is a comfort as well. If you increase the size of the guard anymore after this, you will likely need to build new barracks for them though. Time: 1 season. Cost: 800 gold, chance of vassal approval, high upkeep increase. DC: 45. Reward: Winterfell Guard increased in size.
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Is there a reason you chose this instead of Gifted Warriors? It actually costs more, and Gifted Warriors takes 3 seasons, so I'd like to get started on it earlier, while the Guard can wait for when we want a 1 season action. Or at least that was my thought process. What was yours?

One Autumn Leaf said:
-[X] A Polite Punishment (House): While a king can easily show favor, disfavor can also be demonstrated through slights and insults, both subtle and vicious. When a house disobeys you or a noble displeases you, a polite, restrained show of your displeasure can accomplish much to ensure they will correct themselves and serve as a warning to other houses who might consider testing you. Of course, pushing too far can cause unrest and trouble with the house in question and possibly others as well. Time: 1 season. Cost: 50 gold, 1 Influence. DC: 25/50/75. Reward: general vassal opinion boost, house opinion loss, 1d2-1 Influence/general vassal opinion boost, 1d2+1 Influence/ general vassal opinion boost, house opinion boost, 1d3+1 Influence.
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We are already giving the Glovers a Town Charter, which the GM said would be a subtle rebuke. He also said that taking it along with Polite Punishment would make it an unsubtle rebuke. Do we really want to go that far? It means instead of humbled Dustins, we might get hostile Dustins. That seems like a bad idea to me. Plus it ties up our double down so we can't use it on getting a spy network in the Iron Isles.

One Autumn Leaf said:
-[X] From Wool To Yarn: You have arranged for a sheep farming business that is doing well enough, but you want to improve it. Selling yarn is much more valuable than selling raw wool. Hire some more workers and have them scour and card the raw wool and make it into yarn to sell. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 300 gold. DC: 55. Reward: Increase to trade.
-[X] Improve Roads (Advanced): Use the concrete and hard labor to build Roman roads all around Winterfell and Wintertown, greatly facilitating trade and increasing the speed of travel all throughout your domain. Costly, but certainly worth it. Time: 5 seasons. Cost: 1700 gold, upkeep. DC: 50. Reward: Really good roads all through your lands, increase to trade.
-[X] Copper on Ships: You have described the way to attach copper to ships so that it doesn't fall off, but the details are somewhat vague. You know it has something to do with the nails…fortunately its simple enough to dump some salt in water and set something up to test a few possible methods. Maybe it's the material the nails are made of? Maester Brynden will try some different materials and report back on what seems to work. And then he will test it on a small boat to make sure it works. Time: 2 seasons. Cost: 350 gold. DC: 45. Reward: New action unlocked.
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One Autumn Leaf said:
Let's not delay it. We can skip building a fleet this turn
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I'm confused. I suggested that we could delay the Expand Schools so we could get Copper on Ships and you rejected that idea... but then you did use that idea in your own plan...

Also, is there a reason you prefer Wool to Yarn before Setting Standards?

EDIT: Also, Advanced Road costs more than it should because our concrete workers are still helping the Dustins (it was for 2 seasons), so if we wait one season before starting it, it might be good for us. (Unless the GM forgot about that detail and didn't raise the price).
 
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What's the purpose of getting Copper on our ships? Also should we try and talk to Pyrite soon, his dc is already at 75 and it's be better to get information about the Reach right.
 
Elder Haman said:
Is there a reason you chose this instead of Gifted Warriors? It actually costs more, and Gifted Warriors takes 3 seasons, so I'd like to get started on it earlier, while the Guard can wait for when we want a 1 season action. Or at least that was my thought process. What was yours?
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It was a one-season action meaning that we could just get it done and over with. Get the basic troops up to par before focusing on the shiny stuff was my reasoning.
Elder Haman said:
We are already giving the Glovers a Town Charter, which the GM said would be a subtle rebuke. He also said that taking it along with Polite Punishment would make it an unsubtle rebuke. Do we really want to go that far? It means instead of a humbled Dustins, we might get hostile Dustins. That seems like a bad idea to me. PLus it ties up our double down so we can't use it on getting a spy network in the IRon Isles.
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I don't want to be subtle about it tbh. Although I can change my mind there.

Elder Haman said:
I'm confused. I suggested that we could delay the Expand Schools so we could get Copper on Ships and you rejected that idea... but then you did use that idea in your own plan...

Also, is there a reason you prefer Wool to Yarn before Setting Standards?
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The cost for that and everything else got too high and after looking at the quest I realized we had enough time to meet the requirements and thought it could wait. Setting standards has the side effect of affecting trade income temporarily and I want a bit more cash before doing that
 
Abensur said:
What's the purpose of getting Copper on our ships? Also should we try and talk to Pyrite soon, his dc is already at 75 and it's be better to get information about the Reach right.
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A few things. First, it makes the ships last longer due to preventing the woodworms from eating it, and second it also improves handling, and speed.

EDIT: As for Pyrite, not sure why we need to talk to him now, since we know that it was the birds that was happening. Also, he's in the Vale not the Reach. Or are you suggesting we do a different Intrigue action?
 
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Elder Haman said:
EDIT: Also, Advanced Road costs more than it should because our concrete workers are still helping the Dustins (it was for 2 seasons), so if we wait one season before starting it, it might be good for us. (Unless the GM forgot about that detail and didn't raise the price).
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I thought the prices were the same. I didn't realize that had happened.

Edit: Although I still think we should do it now just to get it over with. The action bloat is getting a bit much.
 
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Wait, I thought Barrowton already had a city charter? They're listed alongside White Harbor and Wintertown.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Edit: Moving double-down to Intrigue. DC for the other action is low enough.
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I do want to push back on this a bit: the DC is low for a middling "okay" result that ends with us losing some opinion and influence. That's why I had the double-down there, so that we were guaranteed at *least* that result, with better odds of hitting the higher DCs and coming out of this looking better. The Iron Islands DC is unknown, so using the double-down there feels like a potential waste, and it's not as important to me this round as is pulling off the disciplinary action without garnering resentment afterwards.

Remember how well things worked out with Karstark? We want the same thing to happen here.
 
Marlowe310811 said:
I do want to push back on this a bit: the DC is low for a middling "okay" result that ends with us losing some opinion and influence. That's why I had the double-down there, so that we were guaranteed at *least* that result, with better odds of hitting the higher DCs and coming out of this looking better. The Iron Islands DC is unknown, so using the double-down there feels like a potential waste, and it's not as important to me this round as is pulling off the disciplinary action without garnering resentment afterwards.

Remember how well things worked out with Karstark? We want the same thing to happen here.
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I agree with this. I'd prefer not to do Polite Punishment at all, as I think the Town Charter is enough. But if we do do it, that is where the double down needs to be.
 
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