The First Duty is being true to themselves? If doing so means taking the Prime Directive into the woods and beating it to death with a shovel? Alternatively the Jovians are psychic blanks so what if they limit themselves to atmospheric recovery devices in the hinterlands and a limited intervention by contacting a few people in positions of power to form a sort of Noah's Ark type deal.

Yes, it would irreparably alter the civilization's development but that civilization is going to die. I think the Jovians might end up withdrawing from the Federation over this.
 
Last edited:
Arn't Federation ships equipped with Matter Ramscoops? I remember a TOS episode that had the Enterprise needing to take matter from a Nebula for the M/A reaction. If that's the case then can't a few dozen or more ships sit in orbit Cloaked with modified Ramscoops over the worst area's of radiation and filter it? true it would take time but it would help.


I also see the Jovians leaving the Federation over this Debacle, along with any members their kindness helped bring in.

Edit: That's also a big thing, How many current minor Federation members joined because of the Jovians? How many of those Minor members are more loyal to the Jovians then they are to the Federation?
 
Last edited:
Arn't Federation ships equipped with Matter Ramscoops? I remember a TOS episode that had the Enterprise needing to take matter from a Nebula for the M/A reaction. If that's the case then can't a few dozen or more ships sit in orbit Cloaked with modified Ramscoops over the worst area's of radiation and filter it? true it would take time but it would help.
A ramscoop is indiscriminate at best, or at worst will pick up only charged particles. Neither is useful when the goal is to filter dust out of the atmosphere.

The problem here appears to amount to, simply, the Federation's industrial capacity not being big enough to do this secretly. Or, not being big enough to do this secretly while it still being possible to sell that to the public.
 
A ramscoop is indiscriminate at best, or at worst will pick up only charged particles. Neither is useful when the goal is to filter dust out of the atmosphere.

The problem here appears to amount to, simply, the Federation's industrial capacity not being big enough to do this secretly. Or, not being big enough to do this secretly while it still being possible to sell that to the public.
I think the latter is much more likely to be the problem. The Federation has previously shown itself to be easily capable of bringing in enough atmospheric processors to fix this sort of thing within weeks. But they are either not large scale enough that so many would be required as to be impossible to hide them, or they are so big and obvious as to make any kind of stealth impractical.
 
Nor one warm enough to grow their crops for the next several years. For the next decade, snow is unlikely to melt.
For an average drop of 2 to 3 degrees centigrade? Unless the majority of the inhabited continent's arable land is subarctic rather than temperate, at worst that means a slightly shorter growing season, reduced yields, or switching crops. (From maize to wheat, or wheat to millet or turnips for example)
 
For an average drop of 2 to 3 degrees centigrade? Unless the majority of the inhabited continent's arable land is subarctic rather than temperate, at worst that means a slightly shorter growing season, reduced yields, or switching crops. (From maize to wheat, or wheat to millet or turnips for example)
Eh, This Thing basically. Also no modern knowledge of farming techniques not to mention a different planet with different flora. For all we know this might be the start of a mass extinction.
 
Gates shook his head, "Then we are in a lot of trouble. Not sure how closely you keep an eye on the political scene, but if you want a mental image, imagine an antimatter tanker on fire in the middle of an ion storm. This isn't official, but there are species talking of breaking away from the Federation."

"What!? Who!?"

"Tellarites for one," he answered and sighed, pinching the bridge of his nose, "I don't need to tell you how bad that would be. They were a founding species.
The most interesting question here is actually what the Tellarites consider good reasons to break from the Federation. If it was 'There is an annoying member species" I would have expected them trying to get rid of the AI's. If it was something like 'the Federation seems to have been a failure' then indeed, considering leaving would be a natural choice. And mind you, crazy politics, infiltrations all over the place and immoral laws are all things the Federations would seem to be currently known for.

I think the Jovians might end up withdrawing from the Federation over this.
An easily understood possibility. A possible reason for the ship to crash into the planet in the first place. Two ships for the possibility of fracturing something like the Federation is cheap.
 
The most interesting question here is actually what the Tellarites consider good reasons to break from the Federation. If it was 'There is an annoying member species" I would have expected them trying to get rid of the AI's. If it was something like 'the Federation seems to have been a failure' then indeed, considering leaving would be a natural choice. And mind you, crazy politics, infiltrations all over the place and immoral laws are all things the Federations would seem to be currently known for.


An easily understood possibility. A possible reason for the ship to crash into the planet in the first place. Two ships for the possibility of fracturing something like the Federation is cheap.
That's a good question about the Tellerites, why are they considering leaving the Federation.

As for the crash, it wasn't deliberate. 2 Klingon ships, a rebel and a loyalist, fought each other and resulted in MAD. one blew up in space, the other fell to the planet's surface, then blew up.
Although why they were battling on the Feddie side of the border is a question...
 
But I have seen the Trek Verse pull Technobullshite out of their asses before, even in a realistic scenario the Federation and by extension Starfleet have the ability to call on ALL of the signed member worlds Industrial might to possibly fix shite like this!


Hell I doubt very much that the Federation or Starfleet even TELL's the common folks about issues like this, I mean I sure as hell wouldn't put up with this shite if I was a Citizen of the Federation. On that note, What's stopping the Civilian Merchants and traders from stepping in and helping these people? as far as I know Civilians don't abide by the same rules as Starfleet which means Starfleet could do nothing to stop them from helping as it would be an even bigger PR Disaster if it got out that Starfleet Personal are more then will to fire on Civilian Ships.
 
On that note, What's stopping the Civilian Merchants and traders from stepping in and helping these people? as far as I know Civilians don't abide by the same rules as Starfleet which means Starfleet could do nothing to stop them from helping as it would be an even bigger PR Disaster if it got out that Starfleet Personal are more then will to fire on Civilian Ships.
IIRC, Federation law prohibits it.
 
But I have seen the Trek Verse pull Technobullshite out of their asses before, even in a realistic scenario the Federation and by extension Starfleet have the ability to call on ALL of the signed member worlds Industrial might to possibly fix shite like this!

Chances are a lot of that has been hand-waved by Hiver as holo-novel trash used in the show from his simulation.
 
And the PR backlash from enforcing those laws by destroying a civilian ship would be so horrendous, that the phrase "do the words 'political shit storm' mean anything you" comes to mind.
They're guaranteed to have options short of destroying the ship to do so. Either way, unfortunately, I don't think any single group of civilians could manage.
 
They're guaranteed to have options short of destroying the ship to do so. Either way, unfortunately, I don't think any single group of civilians could manage.
But those options would likely require weapons fire, or blocking it/ramming it (depends on who reports on it).

That, and punishing people for trying to save lives is horrible PR.
 
If I were a Jovian I would record all the data possible and release it to the public, Fuck the Federation it's not Classified so they can go suck a lemon :D
 
15
An anomaly from the edge of the system drew my attention. Fifteen hulls just dropped out of Warp. Three of them massive and things going down from that.

That's a lot more than I expected to show up. That's three GSVs. Half of the ones in existence. The rest were made up of Islands and smaller ships.

"Captain?"

Shran blinked awake, looking up from the couch of the readyroom, "Uhm? Ship?"

"The Jovian fleet has arrived," I said and brought my picture up on one of the screens, "They just dropped out of warp at the edge of the system. I didn't spot them before, but I expect they used dampening fields."

GSVs are too big to cloak, but you could still hide them and I wasn't using active sensors. If they kept to low warp it would be especially difficult to spot them.

Shran nodded and sat up, rubbing his eyes, "…How many?"

"Fifteen, sir," I reported, "The GSVs 'I Love You Too', 'The Importance of Korrect Spelling' and 'Another Way to Travel'. The rest are made up by Islands and smaller ships. 'Random Encounter' is there, Ajan is likely onboard."

"Damn. Three GSVs?" he asked and got up, putting his uniform jacket back on, "I didn't expect any."

"Yes, sir," I sighed and formed a hologram, brushing down some wrinkles at the back of the jacket, "I don't think they have spotted us yet, I'm close to the planet and a small ship."

Nodding, he buttoned his jacket, "Okay. Let's do this," as he walked out to the bridge.

As he sat down, I walked up to stand next to his chair with my avatar, bringing up a hologram of the Jovian fleet with nametags for each ship in front of us.

I wish I could say I was surprised to see 'Roll For Initiative' in that fleet, but I wasn't really. Don't think anyone would have been.

"Okay, get us between them and the planet. Deploy drones, yellow alert."

"Yes, sir."

Not that it would help. Nobody wanted a fight here, and not like my drones would intimidate anyone. Despite being mostly civilian, each of the GSVs had more firepower than I did. They just had the space to waste on weapons and shields that put me to shame, even if I was a dedicated Warship.

We weren't here for a fight.

"We have been spotted. 'I Love You Too' is requesting a connection."

"Answer her."

I completed the connection and 'I Love You Too' formed her hologram avatar on my bridge. She changed her avatar since I talked to her. Her human avatar was dark skinned and tall with long flowing dark hair. Quite beautiful.

She smiled slightly, "Velvet Hammer. Captain Shran," she said with a nod "Congratulation on the promotion, Captain."

"Thank you," he said with a nod in turn, "May I ask what a Jovian fleet is doing all the way out here? There is a risk of attack this close to the Klingon border, and I have to recommend that civilian vessels vacate the area."

Love raised an eyebrow, "Are we really doing this, Captain?"

Shran sighed, "…No, I suppose there is no point. We all know why you are here."

"And why are you here?"

"To remind you of the consequences of your actions," I said and crossed my arms, "I assume you also got the political situation from Gates?"

"Odin, but yes," she agreed with a nod, "Things are unstable."

I nodded, "To say the least. You know we can't risk this, not now. Especially not with 'Roll For Initiative' in the fleet."

Love shook her head, "We know. We know the law, but the law is wrong."

"The Prime Directive exists for a reason," I told her with a frown.

"And this isn't it and you know it," she said and crossed her arms, "They'll die. Not all of them, but they'll get put back a thousand years at best... and still lose hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people from starvation. How can we possibly claim the moral high-ground when we do nothing but watch them die from something we can prevent? Just because they have not invented an arbitrary piece of technology? You know that only a very strict interpretation of the Prime Directive says this is wrong."

Shran leaned back in his chair, watching her avatar, "You know what will happen if you go in. Even ignoring the political situation, if you move in you'll never leave. This isn't an easy fix. Millions of people and even with atmospheric processors being constructed, they will need food and medical assistance, shield generators to keep their cities free of the dust. The ground needs to be cleared of toxic materials to farm again."

"We know. It will take years, and there is no way to do this without effectively uplifting the locals," she agreed, "But we have the resources. We plan to start to mine the local asteroid belt as soon as we get close, and construct a station in orbit. The alternative is worse. Life is too valuable."

She wasn't wrong. Life was too valuable to waste.

"We can't just ignore the law when it suits us," I said and put my hand on the back of Shran's chair, "I'm a Starfleet officer and I'll do my duty, I'm going to stand by my Captain's decision. No matter my personal feelings."

They actually had a plan for what to do. A plan that would work no less, all at the cost of setting the Federation Council on fire.

Love nodded, "I know, but you were not sent here to fight us."

"No, but I was sent here to stop you."

"Velvet, enough." Shran sighed and rubbed his forehead, "Fuck. She's right, Vel."

"…Captain?"

He looked at my avatar, "Velvet, you know she's right," he said and held up his right artificial arm, "Remember when I got this?"

I nodded.

"I got it defending people. We fought slavers that day and I got in the way of a disruptor. Yet we got everyone out safely. I missed it and it hurt. Things were difficult and it took a long time to adapt to it," He said and turned his hand, looking at it, "But do you know what I never do? I never regret it. I may have lost my arm, but people lived because of it. People who may have died without it. Any way I think of it, it was a fair trade."

"…Captain, it could be throwing your career away. You love being in Starfleet."

Shran nodded as he stood up, "I do, but if that's what I have to lose this time then so be it. Velvet, retract drones and move us into formation with the Jovian fleet."

"…You know I could technically take command now?" I asked him with a sad smile, "Legally."

"I know," he agreed with a nod, "If you think you need to, beam me to the brig. You need to do what you think is right."

I considered it for about a quarter second.

"…Fucking fuck every fucking thing," I grumbled and recalled my drones as I shifted course, "Course set, sir."

I guess we space pirates now.



AN// Many thanks to Drunkenvalley for betaing this section.
 
This kind of thing really needs to be aired. I mean, sure, it would give actual space pirates a massive undeserved propaganda boost, but... well.

"Yes, there are Jovian pirates. They do such evil, evil thing as saving dying people en-masse. The law could have been used as an excuse to watch them all die, but they refused to do so! Monsters, I tell you. Monsters! Kill them all!!!"
- Political drunken rally vid, from the later chapters of "The Rise and Fall of the Federation"
 
Last edited:
Even ignoring the political situation, if you move in you'll never leave.
Which leads us to some of the stickier questions:

What will happen when the locals don't want you there anymore? Worse, what will you do if the locals are heavily divided on whether or not they want outsiders involving themselves?

What about a world filled with people you don't want to save?
 
uplifting the locals,
The Jovians are benevolent AIs, going in with the best of intentions.

They're still going to horribly screw up.

Uplift only goes well in Stellaris( aka Accidental Space Genocide Simulator), or the Uplift books by David Brin. Of course, in those books the process of uplift starts before the client species invents agriculture...

And this also raises a very thorny question: where is the new line? Do the Jovians plan to uplift every civilization they come across? If not, why this planet and not others?
What about a world filled with people you don't want to save?
Hey, remember that world with the cannibalistic lobsters? The one that the Jovians breathed a collective sigh of relief when it was KKV'd hit by a totally natural asteroid strike?
 
Last edited:
......I am of three feelings about this, the first is torn: While this will save a people that doesn't deserve this kind of death, It will also lead to at minimum a Civil War in the federation between the Hardliners and the Jovian Supporters that will result in a weakened if not dissolved Federation and Starfleet, though i can't decide if that's a good thing or not.


My second Feeling is Happy: I am happy that Shran and Velvet kicked the Rule book in the nuts and threw it out the airlock, very few people are willing to do such for the sake of doing the right thing instead of the easy thing like most captains do. Starfleet and the Federation has the responsibility to help those that can not help themselfs, more so in situations like this.


My final feeling is Sad: I am sad that they have been forced into a situation where they have had to chose between their Morals and their duty to Starfleet and the federation, more so in a situation that would frustrate even the most Stoic of Vulcans as no matter the choice each is logical in it's own way.


I expect that the Jovian's will now be forced to leave the Federation, which in the long term might be for the best as it will give the Jovian's more room to grow and expand both as a Race and in technological terms as the Federation has long stand bans on things that would help the Jovian's. I also expect that many Starfleet crews both currently active and post active on Jovian ships will abandon Starfleet.
 
Seems like Starfleet underestimated Peer pressure? That was fast.

Uplift only goes well in Stellaris( aka Accidental Space Genocide Simulator), or the Uplift books by David Brin. Of course, in those books the process of uplift starts before the client species invents agriculture...
Thanks for the book rec - asymmetrical species relations is a thing for me. I'm early in, but there's already some interesting hooks! I'm a bit nervous about the third book being called The Uplift War though...
 
Uplift only goes well in Stellaris( aka Accidental Space Genocide Simulator), or the Uplift books by David Brin. Of course, in those books the process of uplift starts before the client species invents agriculture...

I have had failures with the Uplifting feature in Stellaris alot, the most common is the species Destroying it's self by doing something stuiped. But I agree uplifting a species is a crap shoot at best and can horribly if done wrong. But then again, The alternative is just as bad in this situation.
 
Back
Top