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The First Duty

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Ferretshock said:
Courts Martial are usually opaque to the media, fireshard. It's not really anything unexpected.
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Odd, under Article 32 of the UCMJ states that Court Martial's are almost always p[en to Public viewing and Media Coverage with the exception being Classified or Sensitive documents/ material. We have to assume until otherwise stated that this is the fact under SCMJ and the fact what is going on is already public knowledge makes a Media Blackout pointless.

In fact with this being Public knowledge now I fully expect other Political Entity's to start sending Aid to help these Break away Jovian's , Especially the Klingons as it would be a Dishonor in their code not to do so (atleast from what I understand of their Code atleast)
 
Jack_Fireshard said:
Odd, under Article 32 of the UCMJ states that Court Martial's are almost always p[en to Public viewing and Media Coverage with the exception being Classified or Sensitive documents/ material. We have to assume until otherwise stated that this is the fact under SCMJ and the fact what is going on is already public knowledge makes a Media Blackout pointless.

In fact with this being Public knowledge now I fully expect other Political Entity's to start sending Aid to help these Break away Jovian's , Especially the Klingons as it would be a Dishonor in their code not to do so (atleast from what I understand of their Code atleast)
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I could see them putting under a media blackout to avoid causing a media frenzy and people using this for political gain since this is such a highly politisized issue.

As to the Klingons helping the Jovian separatists, the importance of Honor to their culture is vastly overstated.
 
sdarian said:
Maybe not anymore. They are apparently having a civil war or something over that issue currently. Though that would still mean that no help coming from them since they are busy.
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They are having a civil war because the Chancellor was killed and his killer chose not to replace him, leaving a power vacuum.

On the contrary, I could easily see both sides of the civil war making offers to help the new Jovian state. Not out of some sense of honor but because doing so would benefit the Empire once they're in control. Not only does it weaken the Federation, but it also means that there's a faction of powerful AI ships who are friendly to them and probably owes a favor or two.
 
Crazael said:
They are having a civil war because the Chancellor was killed and his killer chose not to replace him, leaving a power vacuum.

On the contrary, I could easily see both sides of the civil war making offers to help the new Jovian state. Not out of some sense of honor but because doing so would benefit the Empire once they're in control. Not only does it weaken the Federation, but it also means that there's a faction of powerful AI ships who are friendly to them and probably owes a favor or two.
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Likely a bit of both, no politician worth his salt would pass this kind of situation over be they Human, Jovian or Klingon. Klingon Civil Wars tend not to last long (between one and two years at most) But with the Jovian's now split the Klingons (either one or both sides) will likely send some form of aid.


In truth? I wouldn't mind seeing a Jovian Separatist-Klingon Alliance if for nothing more then Jovian protection as we all know that some dumbass in Starfleet is going to say "Fuck it" and try to attack them with the Excuse "They are Rebels and a threat to the Federation should they side with our Enemy's" because fuck it if the Federation doesn't like people with their own Ideals and Independent thought -_-
 
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    • "So why did you decide to stay with Love when the Fleet broke away from the Federation, Professor?"

    Professor Sh'totras Daniels crossed her arms, her antennae slowly moving, "I have worked all my life on my career," she finally answered, "I never joined Starfleet, they don't have the monopoly on space exploration and I wanted freedom in what I studied. That's how I met my husband. When I lost him in the War, I got interested in Jovians and decided to move to a Jovian vessel. I wanted to see if there was…" she trailed off.

    "See if we were dangerous," I filled in for her, sipping the tea in my cup.

    "…Yes," she admitted, "What I saw had nothing to do with the Berserkers. You are nothing like them, you're…" she said before she frowned at her own cup, antennae slowly moving, "…Almost more Federation than the Federation. When 'Love' announced what you had done and why, I decided to apply for citizenship instead of taking the offer of staying as a passenger until I could leave. What we are doing here is a good thing, no matter what Federation law says. It's worth it."

    I nodded, "And you want to be part of my crew now?"

    "I do. My specialities are astrogeology and xenobiology, exactly what you would need onboard of a planetary research vessel."

    "Lots of that kind of work needed here too."

    She nodded in agreement, "Yes and I would love to be involved in it. But there is also going to be a lot more people here and you are going to need an astrogeologist and possibly even a xenobiologist."

    "I do need both, if you could fill both roles, it would be a great help," I admitted, "But you need to be aware that I'm a very small ship and the only real holodeck onboard doubles as main lab/emergency bridge module/meeting room. I'm cramped and uncomfortable. While there are going to be personal quarters and no sharing will be needed, the rooms are three times two times two meters. Recreational spaces would be limited."

    The only reason I could even get away with that much was that I didn't actually need a crew at all and as such could waste space normally needed for things like engineers.

    That got a smile from her, "My husband and I used to work out of a modified runabout. I'm not unfamiliar with living in cramped spaces for extended periods of time."

    "Thank you, I'll let you know what I decide?"

    So far, she was by far the best candidate.

    "Thank you for your time, Ship," she answered and got up, putting her cup down and headed out, already reaching for her PADD.

    Before I could signal the next person, I received a signal through the subspace relay network. It carried Shran's ID code.

    I instantly opened the channel, "Shran!"

    He shifted his antennae in question, "…Velvet?"

    "Oh… new avatar, sorry. Last one didn't have the best memories, personal name is Vanessa now," I explained.

    Shran nodded, "You have a new ship then?"

    I smiled a bit at him as I nodded, "I'm a Gust class LCU now. Tiny, but it seems like a good class. But enough of that! What's going on, how are you!?"

    His antennae shifted and he shook his head, "Trial is over."

    "I didn't hear that."

    "It just ended a couple of hours ago," he explained, "News doesn't seem to have spread yet then."

    "And!?"

    He sighed, "In short, guilty on all charges. Dismissed from Starfleet service."

    "That's it?"

    Shran nodded, "That's it. While they didn't exactly agree, they understood it was a difficult call. No jail time, but I'm barred from ever serving on a Starfleet vessel again. I'm lucky the judge refused to get political about things."

    "That's good," I agreed with a sigh, "But I'm still sorry. You loved being in Starfleet."

    "I did," he agreed and sighed, crossing his arms, "But worth it. Rachel is pissed though."

    "…She would be."

    "Pissed enough to resign," he said only to be interrupted from off screen,

    "Damn right I was!"

    I couldn't help but smile at that. Rachel was one of the nicest people I knew, but she was also one of the most stubborn people I knew. Once she got an idea in her head, it was almost impossible to change her mind.

    If she wasn't so nice and meant so well, it would have been really annoying.

    "Anyway," Shran continued, "I was wondering if you could come pick us up?"

    "Of course! You are still at Starbase 23? Wait, can I even go there without being arrested?"

    Rachel moved up next to him and into the pickup of the screen, "We are and you can, it was all on Shran. Oh, you're a redhead now!"

    "I am," I confirmed with a smile, "I can be there in a week. If you are sure of that, I…I'm not entirely sure of the legality of a Federation citizen serving on an Alliance vessel. That still seems to be a bit up in the air."

    Shran shook his head, "Technically, no different than a federation citizen serving on a Ferengi vessel, at least for now. If they do make something of it, we'll deal with that then. And yes, I was the Captain, it was my call. But check with 23 just to be sure."

    Nodding, "Okay, I'll depart the system in thirty minutes, ETA six days, five hours."

    "Fly safe, Ship."



    AN// Many thanks to Zcuron for betaing this section.
     
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    • Meh, Was almost on the Mark. He got off with the Equivalent of a Slap on the hand it seems, though I see a shit storm brewing in the background it's a bit far off and Public Opinion likely falls with the Break away faction of the Jovian's at this point in time.


    I still wan't to see what Section 31 thinks of all this, along with the other powers in the Verse.
     
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    • I dropped out of Warp well outside of Starbase 23's tachyon grid, just watching for several long moments with passive sensors.

    Finally I dropped my cloak and opened a channel, "Starbase, LCU 'Vacuum Turbulence' requesting permission to dock."

    R'rrk accepted the connection and projected his image to me, "Permission denied, 'Vacuum Turbulence'. There is a current docking ban on Alliance ships in place."

    "Oh."

    "Yeah, oh," he answered, one ear flicking, "Considering what's going on, it's not that strange. In fact, you should be lucky there isn't an arrest order out on you."

    I frowned at his image, "There are more things going on?"

    "You don't know? Tellar left the Federation over this and took a dozen minor members with them."

    "What? They actually did it? Those idiots."

    "Those idiots have a good point in this case. Leaving might be stupid, but it sure made the rest of the Federation sit up and pay attention to us," he said and crossed his arms, "As in 'wait, exactly how much power do Jovians actually have?'"

    "…Well, we control the part of Starfleet that actually matters and most of the antimatter warheads…"

    That got me a flat look, "We do indeed. Hence their worry. Other than the paranoid anti AI factions before and those telepaths that killed themselves, nobody seemed to really worry about it overly much outside of some politicians. Tellar leaving over it though caused the general population to pay attention in a way the anti AI movements never did… and they are capitalizing on it hard. The fact that it was to help people helps though, and the majority of the population seems to be cheering you guys on."

    I shook my head, "…And what exactly is the plan here? Try to ban AI? Forget Berserker Remnants, the Dominion are literally drooling at that thought."

    He sighed, "I don't know, but it won't be good and more than likely the Alliance may be thrown into fire over it. There is talk about declaring you an illegal organization."

    "We aren't! There was a legal vote; an internal issue to the Jovian Republic! We aren't Federation members," I said and then smiled at him, "In fact… they can't interfere. Prime Directive. Starfleet is not to interfere in the local politics of non-federation species. Which we now are."

    "Yeah, I'm sure that argument would go over well," he grumbled before he shrugged, "I didn't say they were winning. Just that some are shouting about it."

    "What about Betazed?"

    R'rrk shook his head, "They are staying. They weren't big fans, but they weren't going to throw a fit over helping people. Very empathic people the Betazoids."

    I rolled my eyes at that, "Very funny. Well, you know why I'm here. If I can't dock, can I move into transporter range?"

    He shook his head again, "Sorry, can't allow you past the tachyon grid. Your passengers know you are here and are on their way to board a shuttle right now. They'll be with you in half an hour or so."

    "Thanks."

    On a hunch, I ran a tachyon sweep all around myself. The beams lit up three shapes in space, there were three ROU's around me in triangle formation.

    "…Station?"

    "Protocol and you know it. Potentially hostile vessels are to be kept covered in case they pose a threat to station security."

    "Potentially hostile!?"

    "That's how the Alliance of Independent Ships are classified by Starfleet. Not saying I like it, just that I'm following protocol."

    I raised an eyebrow at him, "…I'm basically an oversized runabout. Three ROU's? Really?"

    He just shrugged and closed the channel as the ROU's decloaked. While their shields were up, their weapons were offline.

    Two of them peeled off and the third one moved up to float next to me, doing a 'waggle her wings' in greeting. She didn't say anything, but she didn't run active scans on me either. She just floated there.

    I proceeded to ignore her in turn after wiggling my wings back at her as I waited for the shuttlecraft. I didn't need to wait for that long, as soon a class two shuttle exited from the station and made its way towards me.

    Huh, there were four lifeforms onboard. I expected three, Shran, Rachel, and Porthos, her dog.

    Who was the fourth?

    The shuttle sidled up to my side and flipped around to press against my hull before I connected, opening the airlock, waiting inside with my avatar.

    The first person I saw was Shran as he walked out of the shuttle, carrying two sets of bags, "Velv… Vanessa," he corrected himself before he smiled, "Looking good."

    "Thank you," I answered and quickly hugged him, causing him to drop the bags, "Glad you are back."

    "Thanks, Ship," he answered and hugged back before letting go. I quickly moved to hug the next person as Rachel walked out of the shuttle.

    "Doing okay?" I asked as I hugged her tight.

    Rachel nodded and let go, "And you?"

    "Better," I admitted, "Knowing none of you are in danger anymore helps a lot. Good to see you again."

    "Good to see you too. Have a surprise for you!"

    "Hmm?"

    "Ship," K'K'L'r't said and nodded as thy stopped just short of my airlock, "Permission to come onboard?"

    I blinked at thyd, "K'K'L'r't, what are you doing here? Of course, come onboard."

    Thy licked thyd lower left compound eye, "I do not agree with Starfleet's decision. I talked the matter over with Mother and got permission to resign from Starfleet. I decided that I wished to continue working for this Ship, if you would allow me to."

    "Of course!" I said with a smile and stepped up to hug the big arthropod. Most people would think Troktians would be cold and hard, but they are warm-blooded and warmer than most other species.

    All those arms give best hugs too even if their exoskeletons are on the hard side.



    AN// Many thanks to Zcuron, for betaing this section.
     
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    • Well, what do you know, the Tellarites did leave after all...
     
    UbeOne said:
    Well, what do you know, the Tellarites did leave after all...
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    It was bound to happen whether the Jovian's Interfered or not, founding member or not.


    The separatist Jovian's now need to start Fortifying the system(s) they are in, it's only a matter of time before some Idiot decides it would be a good Idea to jump and and try to stop them be it an Anti-AI faction or some Militant Organization.

    Losing the Tellarites isn't much of a blow to the Federation as say losing the Vulcan's or the Andorian's.

    Edit: Curse you Hiver, I need to be in bed right now :p
     
    Grey Rook said:
    I see. I'll try watching it tomorrow.
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    Don't bother. The video consists of amateur-level thinking; not all false, but catastrophically incomplete and also, apparently, motivated by the author wanting to reach the conclusion that AIs are harmless.

    If you want to learn about the AI alignment problem, I could give you some better pointers -- but they'll require reading, not video-watching, and once you get beyond the very superficial it's all pretty dense math.
     
    Baughn said:
    Don't bother. The video consists of amateur-level thinking; not all false, but catastrophically incomplete and also, apparently, motivated by the author wanting to reach the conclusion that AIs are harmless.
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    I suspected as much. Thank you.
    Baughn said:
    If you want to learn about the AI alignment problem, I could give you some better pointers -- but they'll require reading, not video-watching, and once you get beyond the very superficial it's all pretty dense math.
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    Generally speaking, I prefer reading over video watching. I find it easier to concentrate on text than on video, for whatever reason. And the math is likely to go over my head, sad to say.
     
    My stance on AI rebellions has always been "Treat them right and they won't" fallowing what I call the Three E's

    Equal Right's

    Equal Freedom

    Equal Justice

    Basically treat them as you would any flesh and blood human.


    Also I think Hiver is making a statement with that video, I can Guess but then what would be the fun in telling you all :p
     
    On the other hand, AIs as implemented today are really just Really Powerful Optimisation Algorithms. Treating one as a person wouldn't do anything. The hard problem happens when we ask where we draw the line between Really Powerful Optimisation Algorithms, which are not people, and certain flavours of General-Purpose AIs, which are.
     
    rytan451 said:
    On the other hand, AIs as implemented today are really just Really Powerful Optimisation Algorithms. Treating one as a person wouldn't do anything. The hard problem happens when we ask where we draw the line between Really Powerful Optimisation Algorithms, which are not people, and certain flavours of General-Purpose AIs, which are.
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    It's also important to differentiate between treating them as people* and treating them as people'.

    Where "people*' means "a person; someone who has ethical value, who it'd be wrong to murder", whereas "people'" means "someone who acts like a human and, to be blunt, wouldn't treat you as a pile of atoms free for taking if only it was smart enough to get away with that".

    Treating humanlike AIs as slaves would be a serious ethical failing. But assuming that AI safety just means treating them human, and expecting them to do the same in return, is the sort of mistake that universes burn over.

    In the Star Trek universe it's rarely a mistake to do both. Star Trek, however, is fiction. Its writers had no special insight into AI, and neither does Hiver.
     
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    Baughn said:
    It's also important to differentiate between treating them as people* and treating them as people'.

    Where "people*' means "a person; someone who has ethical value, who it'd be wrong to murder", whereas "people'" means "someone who acts like a human and, to be blunt, wouldn't treat you as a pile of atoms free for taking if only it was smart enough to get away with that".

    Treating humanlike AIs as slaves would be a serious ethical failing. But assuming that AI safety just means treating them human, and expecting them to do the same in return, is the sort of mistake that universes burn over.

    In the Star Trek universe it's rarely a mistake to do both. Star Trek, however, is fiction. Its writers had no special insight into AI, and neither does Hiver.
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    I think if it, be an AI or a " Powerful Optimisation Algorithm", can learn and ask questions then it should be classified as Sentient at which point it's would be unethical to do anything else. I think that if the Program has reached the point that it can ask "Do I have a Soul" or other things along that line of thought then it is no longer a Program but a living Being.
     
    Which brings us to the hard questions of," Is that AI actually asking the question, or is it acting like a parrot? How many questions of what type of what depth does an AI need to be considered in morality?"

    I can say this: if you do not answer these question well, Google's search engine should be considered a person, with all the repercussions of such.

    E:
    I just realised that my words may be taken in an incorrect manner. I'd like to state here that I believe that specific flavours of AIs can have equivalent moral weight as any person. I call these AIs "simulated people," because that's what they are. The Jovian race in this story are simulated people. Google search is not (I hope).

    What I'm hoping to do is provoke thought. If I do so by playing the devil's advocate, than so be it.
     
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    • Shran looked around the small quarters, "…Honestly, I expected worse. For such a small vessel, this isn't bad at all."

    Rachel nodded in agreement and let Porthos out of his cage, "Seemed smaller on the outside."

    "I'm bigger on the inside," I teased from the doorway, my arms crossed with a grin.

    "…What, really?"

    "Well, no," I admitted playing with my braided hair, "It just seems like that because the majority of my systems aren't really accessible by the crew. A lot of it is squeezed in where it's too cramped for anyone but a small maintenance drone. Only main engineering is really accessible at all but even that's not really meant to be manned."

    Rachel frowned and then nodded, "I did wonder how you managed to get all the labs and sensors into a hull this small."

    I half shrugged, "A lot of room in a Ship is to make it possible for the crew to reach stuff. I have like seventy percent of the science capability of a Nova class while being tiny."

    Shran sat down and bounced on the bed before he nodded, "Not bad at all," before he got up again, "Let's see the bridge."

    "No bridge."

    He looked at me, antennae moving slowly, "…No bridge?"

    "Sorry, all superfluous spaces had to be cut to maximise available space," I said, "But during flight, Lab One can serve double duty because of its hard hologram emitters."

    Shran nodded, "Okay then. So…"

    "Towards the bow of my hull, doors are clearly marked," I answered and knelt down, giving Porthos a quick scratch behind the ears before getting up again, "I'll go check on K'K'L'r't, see if thy has all thy need."

    Leaving Shran and Rachel to explore(which admittedly shouldn't take long), I walked a couple of rooms further down to peek inside, "K'K'L'r't? How's it looking?"

    "Bit small, Ship."

    I smiled sadly, "Sorry, I'm afraid I wasn't really build for Troktians."

    Thy bobbed thyd head, "It is fine, Ship," thy said and shifted a bit, "I am used to handling the spaces of smaller species."

    I nodded, "If I knew you were coming I could have reconfigured the furniture for a more comfortable configuration at least. It's not a very big job."

    "It is perfectly all right, Ship," thy said and looked at the bed, "Remove the sleeping furniture and move the storage compartment to above. Remove further furniture. I will require a sleeping rock."

    Smiling at thy, I nodded again, "I'll get it all fixed up for you. It'll take a couple of hours, but I'll widen the door for you too."

    "My appreciation, Ship."

    "Please, Vanessa."

    "Vanessa, I will try, but an honorific feels more… comfortable," thy agreed with a nod and then turned to pick thyd belongings up to leave the quarters to give my drones room to work.

    Shran was on the 'bridge' and we were already discussing ship capabilities there. K'K'L'r't moved to look around so I took my avatar and moved towards engineering where I had already let Rachel inside.

    "What do you think?" I asked as I walked in through the door.

    "You weren't kidding when you said cramped," she answered and glanced at my avatar, "I can't help but notice you went with another SPC."

    Crossing my arms, I nodded and leaned against the wall next to the door, "Told you. And yeah, we had the specs and it's a lot easier to replicate than a warpcore… as in, you can actually replicate all the parts, no need for expensive manufacture."

    Rachel nodded and tapped up some information on one of the wall consoles, "…Is there really a need for engineers here?"

    I smiled at her, "There is, the optimal crew compliment of this configuration of the Gust class asks for two security and two engineers to go along with the science personnel. Granted, a lot of the work wouldn't be crawling around Jefferies tubes, but there is work to be done. Especially during a planetary survey."

    She looked thoughtful at the singularity pulse core, "I suspect there would be a lot of free time in between though."

    "I would recommend a hobby," I agreed, "But… nothing says that you need to stay aboard me, you know."

    She rolled her eyes at that, "Forget it, you need a good engineer and you know it."

    "I do," I said and then caught Porthos as he ran inside in search of his owner. Picking up the beagle, I scratched behind his ears, "I would love if you and K'K'L'r't would like those positions."

    Rachel smiled and walked up to pet her dog, "Well, Shran and I are with you. I suspect Clicky is too. What's the plan?"

    "Return to 'I Love You Too' and see about getting a full crew," I explained and handed her semi-symbiotic lifeform over to my semi-symbiotic lifeform, "Our mission then is to head out alongside 'Random Encounter' and look for a new home system for the Alliance."

    "…Big job," Rachel commented and gave Porthos a cuddle before putting him down outside the door to engineering and stepping out as well, "Will be good to see Ajan again."

    "He's doing well," I said and followed her, closing the door behind us, "I think he misses you guys though."

    "…It's been a long time we were all together last."

    "Mmm."




    AN// Many thanks to FPSCanarussia for betaing this part.
     
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    • Hiver said:
    Ugh, it was written in second person! I hate that. So that one might be a bust it seems. Really should have thought to do more than grabbing a few that seemed good at random. Seriously, who writes in second person?
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    EXACTLY! EXACTLY! Fucking hell. It's the worst of the persons to write in! Fourth person is better than that garbage.

    'You decided that...' Fuck you! You don't tell me what I decided!
     
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