with no evidence you want to get allies from people that don't want to help and don't believe us we needed to get the evidence before you can get allys simple
"After I have spoken with the Guildmaster, I intend to seek out Father Sigiwalt for advice on which members of the city guard can be trusted," you explain, "With Magirius' testimony in hand, we will be able to seize such material evidence as necessary to justify placing the ringleaders in custody. With any fortune, this whole affair may be wrapped up swiftly and with a minimum of fuss."
[ ] Flee the Scene You will escape out the back door now, and return to your original plan of contacting Father Sigiwalt and other, more reliable souls for aid in what is to come. Hopefully you can smooth this all out later, but you cannot afford to waste time now.
The choice after getting the evidence was if get the watch i thought the dark gods cult was to dangerous for a corrupt watch chef to ignore that he was corrupt someone could see coming
Look, I'll put it in plain speaking. The evidence was not what mattered. It was the people that mattered. Choosing the law is a bad call when the corrupt people in charge of it. It's rarely wrong to pick the good people.
Look, I'll put it in plain speaking. The evidence was not what mattered. It was the people that mattered. Choosing the law is a bad call when the corrupt people in charge of it. It's rarely wrong to pick the good people.
If Markus makes it out of this alive he has a reasonable shot at going to the wider cult and getting Edel removed from his post or severely chastised or something, but that's a question of cult politics more than anything else.
Damn... I can't believe Edel was a shadow member of the Ordo all along, aiding and abetting their daemonic blasphemies for material gain and to advance his own position within the Cult of Sigmar... if not betrayed by his perfidious lies and sabotage of a Blessed Templar on a righteous mission, who knows how far he could have spread his corruption into the very heart of the Heldenhammer's worship... thank goodness we've caught his malignant allies in the act of foul ritual, exposing his avaricious heresy and winning him a place on the pyre...
You think you know a guy... the truth will always come out... peace and love to all my hammering oomfies...
"His earnest prayers went unanswered" cries the blasphemer, the faithless, the fool, blithely ignoring the incontrovertible fact that by Sigmar's grace Markus has been reunited with his boon companions, released from impious confinement, and delivered securely into the very nest of serpents he seeks to behead.
"His earnest prayers went unanswered" cries the blasphemer, the faithless, the fool, blithely ignoring the incontrovertible fact that by Sigmar's grace Markus has been reunited with his boon companions, released from impious confinement, and delivered securely into the very nest of serpents he seeks to behead.
That's beyond twisting my words. That's assuming malicious intent, which is just... wow.
Myself, others, and even the QM have laid out how the last three-plus chapters and their votes led to the current results. We've been given the overarching theme that runs through this quest and how it applied to the current arc. If someone misread that theme? Unfortunate.
But it's not the end of the world. So just wait for what Maugan does next. It's gonna be fine.
Generally speaking, feudal societies aren't really about titles or even influence. The biggest stick rule applies. The lord of these lands rules them, because they were granted to him, but in order to rule, he has to enforce it via the army or town watch. Hell, Markus is the prime example of this trope. Should he go the infamous Witch Hunter route, start gathering mobs, shooting and burning people left and right after uttering something about heresy, nobody could really stop him. Not unless the poor soul wishes to lock horns with his superiors.
Generally speaking, feudal societies aren't really about titles or even influence. The biggest stick rule applies. The lord of these lands rules them, because they were granted to him, but in order to rule, he has to enforce it via the army or town watch. Hell, Markus is the prime example of this trope. Should he go the infamous Witch Hunter route, start gathering mobs, shooting and burning people left and right after uttering something about heresy, nobody could really stop him. Not unless the poor soul wishes to lock horns with his superiors.
Sigmar Protects (and so do many other powers, you want an approving father figure Markus? I know a Really Big Guy that will gladly pat you on the head and reassure you that you never did anything wrong) but I imagine if Markus wants to whip up a mob the guard captain with the trained State Troopers and the glorious mustache could, in fact, stop Markus by having those trained soldiers he has smack their halberds into Markus torso and limbs until they come apart from each other. And Markus current superior is High Priest Edel who will be less locking horns and more "Thank you so much captain please allow the Temple to make a large donation to 99th Reikland Foot retirement for no particular reason."
That's beyond twisting my words. That's assuming malicious intent, which is just... wow.
Myself, others, and even the QM have laid out how the last three-plus chapters and their votes led to the current results. We've been given the overarching theme that runs through this quest and how it applied to the current arc. If someone misread that theme? Unfortunate.
But it's not the end of the world. So just wait for what Maugan does next. It's gonna be fine.
Mhh after thinking about it i will drop this quest for now the opportunity lost to prepare is to brutal after we have the evidence enraged me to much so i will say good luck everyone i will take a break
"His earnest prayers went unanswered" cries the blasphemer, the faithless, the fool, blithely ignoring the incontrovertible fact that by Sigmar's grace Markus has been reunited with his boon companions, released from impious confinement, and delivered securely into the very nest of serpents he seeks to behead.
I'm not saying you're wrong, what I am saying is that if we average all their iconography together then median composite Sigmar has less gains than median composite Khorne (All those Nuln sculptors and painters leaning in on the ethereal divine beauty of the First Emperor are dragging Heldenhammer's score down) and as Great Kharnath is larger he therefore obviously has more paternal approval to bestow.
Approval that he can bestow on Markus with, at most, one or two minor side effects*!
*this statement has not been evaluated by independent fact checkers from the Augurs of Morr
Generally speaking, feudal societies aren't really about titles or even influence. The biggest stick rule applies. The lord of these lands rules them, because they were granted to him, but in order to rule, he has to enforce it via the army or town watch. Hell, Markus is the prime example of this trope. Should he go the infamous Witch Hunter route, start gathering mobs, shooting and burning people left and right after uttering something about heresy, nobody could really stop him. Not unless the poor soul wishes to lock horns with his superiors.
If Markus goes the full rogue Witch Hunter route, not just bending or skirting around the law, but full on shoot first, burn always, ask questions never, rogue Witch Hunter fanatic
Then he gives up the authority and protection of his superiors because he is a criminal guilty of capital crimes
This is the case both in this quest, and also general canon
WFRP 2e: Realms of Sorcery said:
Some of these Witch Hunters prefer to work outside the law. Some suspect they would never be able to arrest some of their quarry and bring them to trial; others believe Sigmar's justice is too good for the scum they pursue, and a few begin to see marks of Chaos everywhere.If caught these renegades are treated as harshly as if they were Chaos worshippers themselves.
Some criminals have been known to impersonate Witch Hunters; they visit remote communities, whip up hysteria against an innocent, have them burned, confiscate their assets and flee before their crime is discovered. If caught their punishment is harsh. Impersonating a Witch Hunter is a capital offence.
Fanatics - Zealous murderers who take the name and aesthetic of the witch hunter to legitimise their pogroms and persecutions, but hold no actual legal authority or formal backing. While legally criminals, many of them retain a degree of popular support that makes arresting them for their actions significantly more challenging than it otherwise might be.
Markus becomes a full-on vigilante who gets by purely on his own charisma and ability to whip mobs into a frenzy despite lacking any actual authority
That's technically not an unworkable situation to be in, but it's also not an ideal state with tons of power either
Fanatic and rogue Witch Hunters stick to the outskirts of society for a reason
Just this update Markus got painted as a rogue Witch Hunter, tried to talk his way out of it on the power of his Charisma and Charm and failed
The problem with "by the law of the gun and sword" is that sometimes the other guy has a lot more guns and swords than you do
The last one that showed up in a Maugan Ra quest was a minor antagonist that tried to burn Erika the Bright Wizard
She incinerated him and faced absolutely no repercussions for it, because he was a crazed criminal and she was an Imperial Magister
Was initially gonna go for persuade since Markus has like, 50 on Bribery, but after our terrible dice rolls, that +40 from mist and darkness is probably gonna be needed ontop of that 26 from Stealth. Approval voting for both.
I'm not saying you're wrong, what I am saying is that if we average all their iconography together then median composite Sigmar has less gains than median composite Khorne (All those Nuln sculptors and painters leaning in on the ethereal divine beauty of the First Emperor are dragging Heldenhammer's score down) and as Great Kharnath is larger he therefore obviously has more paternal approval to bestow.
Approval that he can bestow on Markus with, at most, one or two minor side effects*!
*this statement has not been evaluated by independent fact checkers from the Augurs of Morr
So with Maugan giving us some freedom to talk about the module (as long as spoilers for the ending and next chapters stay hidden) and pointing out that he'd love to talk about some of the stuff he changed around, I'm going to do a little exposition about stuff we missed, things behind the scenes, some of my own assumptions and stuff that appears to have been changed around.
I don't think anything here spoils anything still to come, but just to be sure I'll put it in a tab anyway.
For those unaware of the AP. We've basically been running the first adventure path of the Enemy Within, The Enemy in Shadows. For the sake of focussing I'm only going to go into the Bogenhafen part, atleast sans one little thing because I really want to compliment Maugan on it.
Us recruiting Max. In the module he's pretty much a one time encounter in the Altdorf bar, meant to heckle people for the fun of the visiting nobles. And as much as he get painted as the worst kind of one dimensional criminal, his stat card eludes to so much more. So I'm going to quote it directly here, if only because he already mentioned so himself after he was injured.
"Max drinks a lot, and when he is alone he drown the memories of his difficult life in brandy and tears."
He's been a great companion, the banter overall and the contrast between him and Markus have been really good, and I really hope that when we get back to Altdorf we can cure his back injury. Man deserves some good luck, and I'd love to see him in more of Markus' adventures (assuming we survive this).
Now. On to Bogenhaven.
It might come as a surpise, but we actually skipped most of the initial introduction of the Bogenhaven arc. In the manual the Schaffenfest is actually a much bigger deal and you get to spend the first day exploring it (after you figure out the inheritance is a scam), coming across a bunch of interesting characters and fair activities. In our case it was somewhat interrupted by Markus having a crisis of faith due to the Mutant Edict.
Anyhow. The Schaffenfest has the Watch spread thin and running ragged, to the point that the Captain is in a foul mood and most guard patrols at the fair are little more than a Watchman and a bunch of poor conscripted recruits. There are medicine shows, fortune tellers, beer tents, games, jousting, a bunch of rumor mills of varying usefulness, etc. You can also meet Elvyra for the first time, she'll try to scam you if you don't impress her. If you do impress her (as we did) she warms up quickly though (will still try to scam you though).
One of the mystics is even the real deal and can give some cryptic forshadowing, like so: "I see seven men, and two. One will destroy the others, and many more besides" which hints at the Ordo plot. Which to original pcs isn't something they are aware of when entering the town. You also meet the murdered Dwarf when he was still alive. And he is intentionally made as crude, annoying, stinking, vile and more besides. Whatever bits of typical Dwarfyness he once had is long gone, constantly heckling you for coin and grabbing whatever drink he can get his hands on.
I will not forgive Maugan for not allowing us to help a Pit Fighter find love though. #JusticeforBraugen
The good doctor's Carnival got a change by Maugan. Presumably because the original had actual mutants in it which would have been illegal and have Markus take action. The doctor himself is also named different, but I'm guessing that is because he's hiding his identity from the potentially dangerous templar (he's already a wanted man you see).
One potentialy big character we never ran into is Magistrate Richter. Head of the festival court and one of the city's councillors. He's a genuine good man and can even become a tutor to anyone interested in the law if they are civil during the encounter. Depeding on how things go he could play a role in the ritual's aftermath.
Next we enter the sewers. Should be pointed out, that by this point the Ordo is heading into their end game, they finally have the last component needed for their ritual. The PCs, in this case Markus, stumbling into the temple is pretty much the sole thing stopping them. Aside from the temple and the Dwarfs corpse there is not much to find in the sewer, but we could (if not guided narratively) have stumbled into the den of the smugglers that just sprang us from the jail.
Within the temple itself you always find the demon, the copper ring and the handkerchief of Steinhager. Theres is also a cabinet with a silver tray, a sacrificial knife and a scroll of the "Manifest Lesser Demon" spell.
Something we didn't notice or Maugan didn't include was the big "Ordo Septinarius" written in the middle of the summoning circle.
Sidenote. I'm going from memory. But if we attempted to enter the Sewer with support from the Sewerjacks we could have potentially found out that the city doesn't have Sewer Jacks. They either got murdered or disbanded by the Ordo and their connections. Another hint at the Ordo's power.
After this the investigation opens up. And for the sake of my sanity I'll stick to things that happened in quest, we could have picked or things that really stand out in the module.
First up:
[ ] Visit the High Temple
We did this and found out that the Temple is in conflict. Edel is a political appointment who owes his rank to the local merchant guild and his father's connections with the Teugen family. He's also pretty incompetent. Every single priest at the temple is older and more experieced than Edel, they hate him and blatantly ignore all his orders. And Edel doesn't even notice in 95% of the cases. Any actual aid from the Cult would have gone through Sigiwalt organizing things among his fellow peers. Edel is an in with the merchants though, as we've seen and likely to sole reason Markus was able to make some headway there dispite his reputation.
[ ] Visit the Magistrates
The town hall is a mess of obstruction, mostly arranged by Teugen. Who is an Ordo member and in the original, the big boss of the Cult rather than Steinhager is in the quest. They drag out every interaction in order to waste time. They also dismiss all tales of demons in the sewer. With enough charm or intimidation you can get a meeting with Teugen himself, which pretty much goes as it went for us. The town records are sealed under orders of Teugen.
It could have also allowed us to meet the Watch Captain and learn he's a prick. He won't talk to anyone not a noble unless you pass a charm check and throw you out of his office if you start talking about demons, cults and temples.
The last possible place this might have taken us could have been Magistrate Richter, who was mentioned above. When you visit him he'll tell you that the mutant was actually found dead in a merchant warehouse down by the docks. If pressed and shown proof of the mutant he'll mention that the supposed site of death belonged to Steinhager and that he was informed by the *head of the cult* of it (Teugen in the original / Steinhagen here). Richter, despite being a councilor, is not part of the Ordo and will move to assist the PCs behind the scenes. He will be poisoned (Purple Brain Fever) by the Ordo for doing so and his fate depends one whether the party finds out and saves him in time.
If you follow up on the warehouse lead then the watchman who claims to have killed the mutant will suddenly have an accident just after you leave.
[ ] Investigate the Silk Handkerchief
We get an overview on the richest merchants in town, their offices and history. A way to identify members of the Ordo and their offices/homes for stakeout. Of note in this case there's the Teugen family, the Steinhagens, Rugenbroder (hates the Ordo) and Magirius. Also possible to intercept their missives to each other.
[ ] Investigate the copper ring
We saw this. But to give some more detail on it and the guilds in general. The Stevedores are in *Cult leader here*'s pocket (Teugen / Steinhager) and are the thug muscle of the cult. If they catch wind of the investigation and their "warnings" are ignored then they attack the party at various points. With the metalworkers you find out that *Cult leader* has ordered the copper ring. At the physicians guild you can find out about Richter's sickness (if you didn't visit him) and some weird deaths in *Cult leader*'s family that match Richter's sickness. The Mourners guild will point out a sharp spike in dead beggards who live near the sewers, all in the same almost ritual like way. They can also point you to the weird deaths in *Cult leader*'s family. We already know about the Merchant guild, not much to add there.
[ ] Locate the temple
This one is a bitch without a mapmaker. It's a -50 without the proper skills or ladder acrobatics up and down the sewers. You find out that the temple is underneath the Steinhager office. If you visit the temple a day after you've discovered it, it's gone. Cleaned up by the Ordo.
During this entire day of investigation the Ordo has its eyes on you, especially in the afternoon, and will (attempt) murder any minor NPC you spend time with for the purpose of the investigation.
Also. That mad prophet Max mentioned in a throwaway line? A former servant of *Cult Leader*'s family. If you follow up on him you find him dead in the same way as the bounty hunter and the Dwarf. But you find a medalion belonging to *Cult Leader* merchant house and have the chance to find his old diary in the Verenan archives which mentions *Cult Leader* coming home after years and is walking with demons, but that noone believe him. In the archive you can also find a note that mentions that a Grinning Moon means that the Time for Change has come.
Up to the next part of the investigation. We went to the temple and trusted Edel, which open political doors and got us an in with Magirius. So what if we had raided the place?
[ ] Follow Father Sigiwalt
In the original the Steinhagen residence / office pretty much goes depending on what you do. Heinrich (the younger brother) wants to take over the family, so he goes allong with everything you tell him as long as he gets what he wants. He's also willing to turn on you the moment it is profitable. He will throw you under the bus. Anyway. If you fake an appointment Franz will throw you out as soon as you mention the temple or if you fail any charm test. He is in a very foul mood. You can also spot a message with the Ordo symbol on his desk. If you can steal it you'll learn that the Ordo is doing a big ritual at the end of the Schaffenfest and is signed by *Cult Leader*.
If you raid or break into the place then you can discover a bunch of stuff. In Franz Steinhager's office there's a hidden door down to the sewer temple behind a wooden panel. No one else in the building knows about it. There's a lot of Ordo documents and medalions, and shipping manifests for his warehouses. Hidden in the desk and in a safe is a book on Dark Magic belonging to *Cult Leader* and message from *Cult Leader* that a beggar will need to be sacrificed soon.
Next up is our second investigation turn on day 3.
[ ] Visit the Shallyans
As we learned the Shallyans know nothing of the Ordo. They only thing they can confirm is that they do some charitable work. They also note that Magirius is a good person.
[ ] Visit the Verenans
Going here gets you little on the Ordo from the priests. They do know a lot about the merchant families and can tell you that the Ordo is mostly made up out of Merchant Guild members. Most of the value here is their archives, already mentioned somewhere above.
[ ] Pray for Guidance
The gods have their eyes on Bogenhaven and are very much watching. This is especially true for characters with Holy Vision. Aside from helping Markus find his confidence, each god has their own warning for a true follower. Samples below.
Bogenhauer himself also has a particular vivid warning when entering his temple with Holy Vision.
[ ] Visit the Mourner's Guild
[ ] Contact the Watch
Already mentioned these above. The Watch Captain is solely focussed on the Schaffenfest (short term) and keeping his merchant backers happy (long term).
[ ] Contact the Smugglers
Contacting the Smugglers has us meet the bunch that just rescued us. They can tell you that they've been hearing screams from the temple for a while now, and that loads of bodies have been floating in the sewers lately. For a price they can also reveal that the temple is located under the Steinhagen office.
I think that is everything I can reveal right now? In that regard.
For fleeing. Yes. We would have kept our gear. But we'd effectively be chased by a mob of civilians and watchmen. Possibly cultists too. Markus had a good chance to convert the Watch to his side, but he fucked the roll. C'est la vie.
I do have some other observations. Sigiwalt is still in play, as is Lieutenant Brotte. Both are solid and true. Even if the latter has been given a sharply underfunded and undermanned command by the Watch Captain, due to her nature to cause trouble for the merchants. Also. Had Markus been there when "Magirius's" errant boy had the message deliverd, his noble background could have signaled him in that it was a trap, since the messager left without asking for a tip.
With the Chaos Moon hanging very low, the Watch out on patrol en-mass, cultists and their agents from the guilds about and your usual night traffic things are about to get interesting. Especially given the Emperor's edict on mutants...
As for a flicker of hope regarding the future and the merchants working against Markus. The Count despises them and only lets them do their thing because the civil strife moving against them would cause.
Likewise he'll have a shot at filing charges against Goetrin... but Goetrin is a well connected local noble and also in command of the local army so that's actually a pretty dangerous thing to do.
I don't know if you changed it. But Goetrin is actually on thin ice with the local nobles. If you look at the adventure hooks in the Guide to Bogenhaven section (Saponatheim Castle section IIRC) you'll see that he (and the Watch in general) freaks out when he hears that the count's nephew is coming to town to inspect the regiment, given the state they're in. LT Brotte sees this as her shot to clean up the Watch and makes her move. The party can either support Goetrin in delaying and discrediting Brotte so they pass the inspection or support Brotte and get Goetrin sacked.
The good doctor's Carnival got a change by Maugan. Presumably because the original had actual mutants in it which would have been illegal and have Markus take action. The doctor himself is also named different, but I'm guessing that is because he's hiding his identity from the potentially dangerous templar (he's already a wanted man you see).
The Pandemonium Carnival comes from the Enemy in Shadows Companion actually, separate from the base Enemy in Shadows book
Maugan replaced the original Doctor and freakshow exhibit with the Pandemonium Carnival
And how much of a criminal Doctor Wolfgang is varies, as the book gives several different variations of what he might be up to, ranging from secretly training the small twin boar Beastmen to steal from people, to secretly being a Witch Hunter informant who reports on anyone who he deems to show too much interest in his exhibits, to him being a quest giver who was imprisoned by a Witch Hunter for trial and needs you to go get the legal documents proving that he has dispensation from the Emperor to keep and study Beastmen.
At base, the documents and permits he has are genuine. The module actually specifies that they're signed and sealed by Karl Franz himself.
Bit of a Schrodinger's character that can be modified to fit the needs of the GM
His base personality is that he is a studious and quietly inquisitive man who is driven by his need to understand things. Who can be slightly amoral in his quest for knowledge, but not evil (needless and senseless suffering distresses him greatly), and who will always honor his word once it is given.
He is also extremely well traveled and connected, having connections with many noble families and guilds.
Also despite Wolfgang's caution and belief that Urzo (the Beastman) would kill everyone in the room and take off for the nearest forest if given half the chance
In the module Urzo is probably the least dangerous of the exhibits
He's regards the Carnival workers as steady food providers, and has learned that good behaviour means bigger meals (good behaviour means appearing exciting and dangerous to attract viewers but causing no real harm)
So he makes a show of rattling the bars of his cage and roaring and what not, but this is explicitly an act, and if he somehow gets loose he only goes into a rage if actively attacked
Otherwise, he's almost docile
I don't know if you changed it. But Goetrin is actually on thin ice with the local nobles. If you look at the adventure hooks in the Guide to Bogenhaven section (Saponatheim Castle section IIRC) you'll see that he (and the Watch in general) freaks out when he hears that the count's nephew is coming to town to inspect the regiment, given the state they're in. LT Brotte sees this as her shot to clean up the Watch and makes her move. The party can either support Goetrin in delaying and discrediting Brotte so they pass the inspection or support Brotte and get Goetrin sacked.
I haven't changed it directly, no, which yes would indeed mean that if you could get some evidence of Goetrin's poor behaviour to the Graf von Saponatheim (or his representative) then Goetrin would indeed be in a fair bit of trouble.
The Graf's distant and hands off attitude is genuinely at the root of a lot of the local problems Markus is encountering. By rights Von Saponatheim should either be running the town personally or appointing a subordinate/junior relative to handle it and focusing on managing them, but he's not. He's letting the town council take care of things and then not actually listening to their reports or keeping them honest.
