[X] [Leadership] The Matrons, who seek to find a place of plenty for their children.
[X] [Location] The hills among the great rivers. Hidden in between the great plants growing there, the tribe can prosper on the fertile lands in peace.
Vote closed. The hunters got their wishes to go for the riverlands.
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Jun 11, 2018 at 11:50 AM, finished with 51 posts and 30 votes.
[X] [Location] The hills among the great rivers. Hidden in between the great plants growing there, the tribe can prosper on the fertile lands in peace.
[x] [Location] The land of earth and water. Surely an arrangement can be made with the spirits of this strange place, which would grant the tribe a place both safe and fertile.
[X] [Location] The remote plains. While the tribe is not adverse to sharing, it rightfully fears that others might envy their new home. It would be better to go to a more secluded location.
[X] [Location] The plains behind the mountains. Truly malicious travelers are rare and much could be gained from peaceful contacts, when the tribe can share the spoils of these fertile lands.
Honestly im tempted to take the pure nomad route and become the scourges of civilization
It would be a lot different from what usually happenes in these games
- government:
Having 10,000 years of uninterrupted government of the same type with no problems or inefficiencies is by default not possible. That would require a insane amount of sheer dumb luck, since competence alone would never be able to avert every crisis. The more extreme your mode of government (Communism, Pure Market-Capitalism, Universal Democracy, Totalitarian Monarchy, Totalitarian Theocracy, etc.) the more likely it becomes that some problems will sneak in or a crisis develops that your government is ill equipped to deal with.
That being said, there will be no "right" governments that you inevitably have to default to. The list you gave is overly brief and narrow, glossing over a whole lot of historical governments. It doesn't mention the original Athenian Democracy, the centuries long Roman Republic, non-monolitic states like the Iroquois Confederation or the nigh-internal bureaucratic governments of the far east, of which the chinese one has survived in some form for millenia. It also doesn't account for the complex and distinct systems of the Holy Roman Empire or the Polish-Litunian Commonwealth and completely ignores the relationship between state and faith, like the Islamic Caliphate or the Inca Emperors.
There is nothing set in stone and the probability of average medieval monarchies dominating an average medieval world are pretty slim. That would require far too many events to play out exactly like in the real Europe to come to pass on that large a scale. Keep an eye out for a falling Rome and a strongly centralized faith willing to legitimise warlords for their own gain, otherwise expect something distinctly different to emerge.
- culture:
Likewise, culture isn't something that will default to anything and probably will be rather dynamic. To stick with your example, the ancient Greek and to a lesser degree the Romans had quite different views on homosexuality then those that the dominance of Abrahamic faiths would later establish. One should not conflate one view winning in the end with that view being normal.
- warrior culture and explosive expansion
Well, these things happened a lot in history. However, most of these states also didn't last much longer then the leader who had build them. The empire of Alexander the Great immediately went down the drain of civil-war after he died and the Mongol Empire rapidly dissolved within a few generations.
Having a warrior culture with nothing to back it up will have your conquests rapidly come apart at the seams.
So overall:
No railroads until the industrial revolution. Things will develop on their own and while some things are likely to happen, given the right conditions and enough time, there is no simple progression bar to track your way to the modern western world. Expect to fail and stumble on the way. Expect palaces to burn down, republics turning into dictatorships and faiths to cause world-wars over tiny pieces of scripture, but at no point will the direction of events be shaped by anything but the decisions and events that preceded them.
Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear. I just gave the most common example tropes out there (like the stereotypical council -> monarchy -> democracy route) to explain my point. Some GM's have a pretty narrow definition/scope of history, or lack the creativity to really deviate from the trodden path... though knowing you, I don't know why I doubted. It's really nice to see lots of familiar faces too, hopefully that'll mean this quest's politics will be more in the vein of ASWAH with its cooperative plans and player integration, rather than the mad scramble of 5 serious competing plans and another 5 minor ones trying to out bandwagon each other that many other civ builders devolve to.
[X] [Leadership] The Hunters, who are willing to go to the unknown, hoping for great rewards.
[X] [Location] The hills among the great rivers. Hidden in between the great plants growing there, the tribe can prosper on the fertile lands in peace.
I'm afraid it may be too late for that, given we didn't take sea access... though we could always just bloat until we reach the sea I guess. Founding lots of colonies like the Greek Cities did and ruling through soft power is the likely playstyle if we went merchant republic... though being realistic, we'll likely be restricted in part by the local geography. If there's a huge steppe on our backyard for example, expansion and relentless colonisation would have to happen before we're drowning in horse raiders. Likewise depends on the sea, building a Venice in the Mediterranean is different than building a Venice in the Cape of Good Hope.
Personally, I'm partial to a proper Imperial run where we assimilate conquered cultures, sort of like a Roman Empire. Though other options tempt me too... a colonizing naval republic sounds cool to play with but we'd lack an island start as is proper... hmm...
Depending on the rivers and the scales involved, we can always focus on expanding and trading along the river systems. That'd be interesting, and has been a strong basis for plenty of societies IRL (especially central China, Egypt, northern India).
[X] [Leadership] The Hunters, who are willing to go to the unknown, hoping for great rewards.
[X] [Leadership] The Hunters, who are willing to go to the unknown, hoping for great rewards.
The debate had been long and quickly seemed to get heated as the elders saw that none would heed their warnings, but in the end they relented. Neither the hunters nor the matrons were willing to listen to the pleas for caution, for the elders had waited too long to acknowledge the troubles of the tribe. Now that decisive action was needed, it would be the hunters who should lead the people for a while, for it was their doing that they had been spared the pangs of hunger for so long, so they too could be trusted to end them for good.
On the matter of the destination of their march, there was more division. Despite the notion having been brought forth mostly as an act of defiance, some of the hunters and even matrons were enamored by the idea to travel to the strange place where earth and water mingled, while others felt that the tribe should not abandon their ways, merely seek out richer grasslands for themselves. Here it was that the elders voices were heard again, as they argued against an open plain were it was known that many other tribes walked. Perhaps they were too convincing in their arguments, for as the stars were slowly driven away by the sun, it was the hillsides of the rivers that had found the most support among the group.
And so they all dispersed, going back to their kin and the tribe at large to tell them of the decision they had reached. Many were frightened by the idea to leave the steppe, even more so when they were told how strange and far away a place they would wander to. Some even challenged it altogether, inventing ever more outlandish theories about the dangers of the journey, ranging from evil men to ambush them to the spirits making the mountains come crashing down on them for turning their back on them. It was Lichen's calm manner that managed to cool their tempers. Even with the exhausting night before, he took time to listen to every complaint and worry, steadily wearing them away with soothing words and the occasional argument at a growling stomach. He had started all of this after all, not to splinter the tribe, but to keep it united and strong.
The tribe had always wandered and so breaking camp did not take more then that single day for them. As they began to march, some still began to skittishly look at the endless grass around them, as if to see as much of it as possible before leaving. It took a good two days of walking until they accepted that they would still see quite a bit of grass before they would be anywhere else. Later on, some others nearly left the tribe as they had crossed one of the great rivers, though that too passed quickly. The lands here were not richer then those that they had left behind and having waded through the water, always having to fear to be dragged away by it, had quickly cured them of the desire to stay in this mercurial place.
Which path from here on?
24 - Hunters pressing to go over the mountains. The other groups are not happy.
Not long after though, another argument broke out among the small group that had spurred the tribe to this long march. Some of the hunters, emboldened by tales of other tribes walking among the mountains themselves and seizing the wariness of having to cross more rivers on the route that was initially agreed upon, wanted to use those little used paths instead. They spoke at length of the prudence of their plan, how it would spare the tribe the chance to come upon unfriendly travelers and that the waters themselves would guide them unerringly. All remembered though how the hunters had so far argued against such caution and saw through to their true desires. Some merely were curious to see what lay between the peaks, others lusted for the glory of having led the people on such hostile grounds. In the end, no words could sway the hunters and grudgingly, the tribe let them have their will. It would have sat ill with many to first state their trust in the hunters, just to take it away at the first opportunity.
How well does it go?
97 - A merry jaunt.
So they followed the river to the peaks that birthed it. The imposing rocks looming ever larger as they came closer. The grass around them seemed to turn drier and sparser with every step taken, the herds of beasts thinning between the hills that led towards the mountains. Yet at the same time, there always seemed to be just enough food to fill their bellies to be gathered among the dry shrubs. Some said that this was because no tribe not touched by madness would ever dare to wander here, while others saw in it the work of the spirits, a parting gift to their children leaving their old home behind. Whatever the reason, the mood quickly turned around again and sharp words spoken behind turned backs became praise to the hunters for their cunning choice.
It was not fear that dominated as they began to climb the hills leading behind the rocky peaks, but determination. They had come so far with little trouble, a whole two moons of marching and eating what could be found on the way, so whatever may lay ahead, they felt prepared for it. Still some let there gazes linger on the endless hills topped by steppe grass as they disappeared behind stone and haze. Now they had truly left their home. Were there had always been fresh grass under their feet and the warm sun on their skin, there was now only dry earth and cold shadows as they marched.
For many days they walked like that, always towards the peak where they had seen the sun set behind the day before. Their trek slowed as the hunters had to switch between scouting ahead and bringing meat to nourish the tribe. Even the gazelles of these lands were weird. Some were, tiny, stocky things, who seemed so slow on the ground, yet climbed the rocks around them as if they were even land. Others seemed to have gone the other direction, becoming fat and ponderous, yet quite terrifying when provoked. They all seemed weirdly unconcerned by the peoples passing, as if they felt like staying and gawking at the weird things trudging through their home.
Location
74 - A great spot.
Something else?
88 - Something great waits for discovery.
Though after all the days of wandering, the journey came to a close. The scouts had come back looking almost giddy with excitement and not long after, all the people saw the reason. Behind the last mound of stones and shrubbery, they saw a valley like they had never seen before. The greenery seemed to creep up the mountains as if competing with them, just as the tales had told and the entire place was filled with them. At a distance, they looked almost like grass and only those closer hinted at their true seize. Between the slopes and small hills was a river, moving almost lazily around it all and small patches of lush, green grass adorned its sides.
Chatter sprang up immediately as the last uncertainty bled from the tribes-folk. Their journey had not only ended, but it was a success. These green lands, nestled in between the mountains, would see them safe and fed for many generations to come. With the sun setting, they would only go down tomorrow, making camp between the rocks for one last time, but many would come back to this spot to gawk all evening.
Just one man never left the place. Lichen, who had started all of this, had sat down on a outcropping of rock and gazed at the valley. While even the other elders had stomached the hardships of the march quite well, he had not, requiring more and more rest each evening and having to be helped to walk on more then one occasion. A few sat beside him and savored the view, others tried to talk with him, but he refused. "It is done" was all he had to say and so they left the venerable elder to spend his night there. On the next morning though, they would find him still sitting in his spot, slightly slumped over. Any who saw knew that he would never stir again.
It was not grass that they wrapped him with, but stones and thin shrubbery that they laid on top of him, right on the slope of that mount. They had left their ancestors in the steppes, but the one of them that still lived had come this far with them. Now he would rest on the mountain and forever gaze upon his kin living in the valley, to see the fruits of his work. The climb down is somber for the loss, yet the tribe goes on to explore their new home.
With the tribe having arrived at their new home, many things must be decided and many a voice is raised to argue for one thing or another. Their task completed, the hunters gladly let go of their authority again and join the chorus like everyone else. Nonetheless, nobody shall soon forget their leadership and that it was their boldness that led them to the right path.
Mechanic Revealed: Cultural Ideas
As the history of the people grows longer and the world around them more complex, they will form ideas about their own place in all of this. Be it something to aspire to, a belief that they have a predetermined place or simply a rule that governs how they interact with each other, these thoughts will shape them and the communities they build.
Cultural Ideas come in three levels and usually give specific advantages or drawbacks to certain actions. They will also shape the way the group will interact with others and might block certain actions, enable others or even force the group to do something specific. The deeper the idea is ingrained into the groups culture, the stronger these effects become. Acting against an idea can cause strife and will slowly degrade it to a lower lever, before it passes away entirely. Reinforcing an idea by acting in accordance with it will keep it alive and lead to it reaching a higher tier. Over time, an idea might change and evolve through time, interaction with other ideas or simply changing circumstances of the group.
Fad - A short lived idea that will fade within a few generations at most.
Ideal - This idea has gotten some traction and is viewed either as commonly held goal or widespread held belief. It will last over many generations, unless actively worked against.
Identity - Due to being held in the common consciousness for so long, this idea has become a defining trait of the group. It will never fade on its own and is very unlikely to degrade, even if actively worked against, though it can evolve normally.
Grained Cultural Idea: Boldness - Fad
The tale of the tribes great journey and its leadership is fresh in the memory of the people. The lesson they learned is that fears and uncertainty should not govern you and that great things can only be achieved by taking risks.
Effects:
- small bonus to Exploration actions
- critical successes and failures for hunting and exploration actions become more likely
- small risk of tribe members acting on their own without regard for the consequences
With every group wanting to do their own thing, the tribe needs to settle on what is the most important for the first days. You must erect a permanent camp and start at least one food gathering action:
[] [Hunters] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
[] [Hunters] Explore where the river leads to.
[] [Hunters] Take stock of the local animals and begin hunting them. (Food)
[] [Hunters] The tribe has caught fish by hand and spear in the past. See if the shallows of the river are suitable for that. (Food)
[] [Elders] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
[] [Elders] Erect a camp-site.
[] [Elders] Go out with the gatherers and look for edible plants. (Food)
[] [Elders] Take a good look at the tall plants of the valley. The tall shrubs whose branches you use for spears don't grow here and you will need replacements soon.
[] [Elders] Take a good look at the stones of the mountains. You might find some of the special rock that other tribes have sold you for cutting.
[] [Matrons] Erect a camp-site.
[] [Matrons] Take a good look at the tall plants of the valley. The tall shrubs whose branches you use for spears don't grow here and you will need replacements soon.
[] [Matrons] Take a good look at the stones of the mountains. You might find some of the special rock that other tribes have sold you for cutting.
AN: The journey could have made some problems, especially when the hunters got their way with the mountain route, but instead it became a cake-walk. Likewise, you've got the best site on the mountain slopes. A valley enclosed on three sides by mountains and the only entrance is semi-blocked by the river crossing from one side of the valley to the other.
[X] Plan One [X] [Hunters] Take stock of the local animals and begin hunting them. (Food)
[X] [Elders] Take a good look at the tall plants of the valley. The tall shrubs whose branches you use for spears don't grow here and you will need replacements soon.
[X] [Matrons] Erect a camp-site.
@Azel What would happened if we Critted the Location? Or crit failed?
[X] Plan Overview
-[X] [Hunters] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
-[X] [Elders] Go out with the gatherers and look for edible plants. (Food)
-[X] [Matrons] Erect a camp-site.
Better get basic information as fast as possible, at least find out what we share the valley with.
Food from gathering, looks fertile enough for now.
Essentially, that was a crit. There were three success ranges (10 to 39, 40 to 69 and 70 to 100) so you ended with the best spot, while the others would have had you settle somewhere with a slightly worse geopolitical position. At 9 and below, you would have gotten lost and I would have rolled on the "Bad Things" chart before re-rolling the location.
Essentially, that was a crit. There were three success ranges (10 to 39, 40 to 69 and 70 to 100) so you ended with the best spot, while the others would have had you settle somewhere with a slightly worse geopolitical position. At 9 and below, you would have gotten lost and I would have rolled on the "Bad Things" chart before re-rolling the location.
[X] Plan Overview
-[X] [Hunters] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
-[X] [Elders] Go out with the gatherers and look for edible plants. (Food)
-[X] [Matrons] Erect a camp-site.
Depending on the rivers and the scales involved, we can always focus on expanding and trading along the river systems. That'd be interesting, and has been a strong basis for plenty of societies IRL (especially central China, Egypt, northern India).
The river system is pretty vast. They call it the Riverlands for a reason.
So if you make nice with your neighbors and focus some actions on it, becoming a trader nation is entirely possible.
Sea access is a bit harder, but you are not that far from the coast.
[X] Plan Overview
-[X] [Hunters] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
-[X] [Elders] Go out with the gatherers and look for edible plants. (Food)
-[X] [Matrons] Erect a camp
[X] Plan Overview
-[X] [Hunters] Explore the valley and its immediate surroundings.
-[X] [Elders] Go out with the gatherers and look for edible plants. (Food)
-[X] [Matrons] Erect a camp-site.
I think that this one is slightly better, because it gets us that knowledge of the area. I'd rather put off hunting until we've done some scouting - especially given the crit-increasing effects of Boldness, we should be aware of any dangerous predators - and if we're not yet hunting we don't yet need wood for spears. Knowing the place better may also help us deploy our resource-inspection and food-gathering options better next turn, and it makes use of our exploration bonus.
