- Location
- Britain
To be fair Azel, you really can't be held responsible for another member being dumb enough to practically taunt staff like that.
Just a damn shame he chose this thread to do it in.
Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
Just a damn shame he chose this thread to do it in.
- Location
- France
I think we might need to visit the Sowing people again and get those wheat seed, I might be talking out of my ass, but I don't think our current Farming option have very yield? Might help explain why we are always starving and struggling to grow population.
At least, everyone south probably suffered important setback after the massive war...
Btw, we should probably set up something to get news from the outside regularly, I'd appreciate not suddenly being hit by a massive army of bronze equipped Makarrite out of the blue.
*flash back to the first civlization quest not!mongol*
At least, everyone south probably suffered important setback after the massive war...
Btw, we should probably set up something to get news from the outside regularly, I'd appreciate not suddenly being hit by a massive army of bronze equipped Makarrite out of the blue.
*flash back to the first civlization quest not!mongol*
- Location
- Germany
Their seeds don't grow well in our valley.
Bad ground for that form of farming.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
We don't technically have true farming. We grow fruit orchards. If we could find a faster growing crop that grows well in the valley, we would do quite well for ourselves.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
If we could transport food, i would just build an outpost near the plains and grow food there.
- Location
- France
Well, perhaps we should try it anyways, we might not be able to grow them with our soil as it is right now, but we do have Perseverance and master of nature, so we might be able to eventually advance our agriculture technique by looking into it and grow them with effort.
I am kind of surprised everyone gave it up so easily.
I mean, Farming is the base of any Hot civilisation, we are quite limited in our prospect without it.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Our problems would be solved if we expanded to an area with better farmable land, like down river.
- Location
- Germany
We tried it for years.
They didn't grow by the forest, they rotted by the river, they were washed out from the side of the mountain.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Point^1
Trying to hide in the middle of nowhere and then become a super power is not going to work.
- Location
- yorkshire
why are you taking to yourself not judging do it myself sometimes
- Location
- France
We tried one turn, we rolled a 3, than we ran out of seed and never tried again.
IC we basically just tried to plant them in different place, we didn't actually research different methods, or tried to modify the soils. I am no expert in agriculture, but I know there are a lot of things that can be done in this regard.
We failed to grow it with the very, bare bone, basic of farming, and rather than persevere in the hope of discovering a way to grow them we just kinda gave up.
That's why I am saying we should get seed and try again.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
And I am saying that without getting a better place to do so (Like say down river) we are likely to starve before efforts bare fruit. In addition to helping with our growing isolation issues, lack of information issues, and food in general (more room for fishing hunting gathering and so on) we should expand down river.
- Location
- Leicester UK
There is also the problem that farming is viewed disdainfully by our people since we learned about it from subjugated pops, no one want's to learn how to farm grain themselves as it's seen as serf work, best way to learn how to farm grain is go raiding for farmers then settle them somewhere appropriate with a suitable hunter population to keep them working on the farms.
- Location
- France
We don't have the people to settle that far, and I somehow doubt our capacity to fight The people south right now considering their growth speed.
The lack of information, I think, has less to do with our geographic position and more to do with the fact that our only trade partner are mountain people, a lots of people know where we are, but no one is coming to talk with us.
If we can't get our people to farm, we are fucked beyond redemption, the others civ will just keep growing as we struggle not to deplete our limited ressources. I am already uncertain about our capacity to raid south successfully tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if they rebuilt and renforced Lakefort.
Well, the silver Lining is, if we conttrol the Valley and mountain, we will be the top dog come the Bronze age and Iron age...
We just really need to sort out this farming problem.
- Location
- Chile
Yay! ToH is back! All this talk of 'evil' civs must be driving Azel up a wall heh.
Anyway, yikes, we got pretty played by Brushcrest. It might be worth it to raid them for some seeds and go full hog again on agri, so we have some numbers worth a damn. The first time we tried was ages ago and we're a different people, with different ideals. If we fail perhaps our penchant for mega projects will help us. Alternatively, Selection and Breeding should have made even the original species we tried to plant more resilient and bountiful. Its worth a try.
I'm beginning to second guess our penchant for conquest though. Azel said it would be extremely hard in the Stone Age, and low and behold it has. Logistics make it a pain to invade the valley, and our stone walls are only going to get higher and more prevalent.
I think it might be worth it to just fort up in the valley and spam tech (especially agri tech) and culture till we hit the Bronze Age. Then we come out swinging and pull an Egypt.
Civs are flaming out left and right outside the valley anyway, there's just not enough tech around, and even the big players outside will eventually fall. Brushcrest is one moderate tsunami from being wiped out and Makar lasting as long as it has is pure bullshit, they're extremely brittle and its only a matter of time till they overextend and implode.
They cant pull this Aztec bullshit in the stone age and expect to last more than another century, they dont even know how to write! And how are they keeping all those slaves in hand with flint spears and ropes? IMO it'll fall sooner rather than later, dice gods willing.
Not proposing full isolation, more of a change in long term foreign policy. We cant replace armies like stone age romans and our military tech advantage is not as high as it once was. Let's be as unyielding as the granite of our valley. Let's outlast them all and build build build while spamming our faith everywhere.
(If people want to raze Brushcrest before we go full hog on this plan I'll join in though, for vengance and old times sake).
Anyway, yikes, we got pretty played by Brushcrest. It might be worth it to raid them for some seeds and go full hog again on agri, so we have some numbers worth a damn. The first time we tried was ages ago and we're a different people, with different ideals. If we fail perhaps our penchant for mega projects will help us. Alternatively, Selection and Breeding should have made even the original species we tried to plant more resilient and bountiful. Its worth a try.
I'm beginning to second guess our penchant for conquest though. Azel said it would be extremely hard in the Stone Age, and low and behold it has. Logistics make it a pain to invade the valley, and our stone walls are only going to get higher and more prevalent.
I think it might be worth it to just fort up in the valley and spam tech (especially agri tech) and culture till we hit the Bronze Age. Then we come out swinging and pull an Egypt.
Civs are flaming out left and right outside the valley anyway, there's just not enough tech around, and even the big players outside will eventually fall. Brushcrest is one moderate tsunami from being wiped out and Makar lasting as long as it has is pure bullshit, they're extremely brittle and its only a matter of time till they overextend and implode.
They cant pull this Aztec bullshit in the stone age and expect to last more than another century, they dont even know how to write! And how are they keeping all those slaves in hand with flint spears and ropes? IMO it'll fall sooner rather than later, dice gods willing.
Not proposing full isolation, more of a change in long term foreign policy. We cant replace armies like stone age romans and our military tech advantage is not as high as it once was. Let's be as unyielding as the granite of our valley. Let's outlast them all and build build build while spamming our faith everywhere.
(If people want to raze Brushcrest before we go full hog on this plan I'll join in though, for vengance and old times sake).
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- Location
- Leicester UK
If we subjugate some farmers and convert them to our culture we should be able to train up new farmer pops ourselves, it's just at the moment grain farming is not just serf work like gathering and orchid farming but foreign serf work so it's viewed as the lowest of the low.
We might be able to use brute force to make some of our serfs learn how to farm grain but that going to be a very slow and inefficient process.
On agriculture...actually orchards made more food than farms early on. Nuts and fruits were a lot more nutritious than grain seeds and took less energy to process, while forests also supported populations of deer, rodents, birds and pigs to supply hunters and trappers
Animal milling and cooking was needed to get anything out of wild grain before we put in enough selective breeding that the modern rice grain is basically a sugar crystal in terms of caloric density.
Animal milling and cooking was needed to get anything out of wild grain before we put in enough selective breeding that the modern rice grain is basically a sugar crystal in terms of caloric density.
- Location
- France
*scratch his head* then I have no idea what we can do to catch up with others...
- Location
- Chile
But the way to get those things is to repeteadly fail while trying to get similar stuff. Its how we got orchards.
If we want to get good at hill farming, why are we constantly trying to do it with floodplains farmers? They got nearly nothing to do with each other at all.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Expand. We literally cant afford a higher population in our capital then what we currently have. As much as people don't like giving things up, we cant just stay here and expect to have everything go well, also their is room to expand down river, We burn a village down to make said room.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Agreed with @SpeckofStardust we cannot hole up in our mountain, thats what our people WISH and WANT, but it is neither a good idea nor is it sufficient for our needs anymore.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Well, river civilizations have their own set of problems. As @veekie pointed out, early on fruits and nuts are more nutritious than rice or grain. It took thousands of years for human beings to genetically engineer plants and animals for their own use, so while the river civilizations are growing faster than us, they aren't growing exponentially faster than us. In both Brushcrest and Makar's case I think that we're overlooking how vital fishing and fishers must be to their food production.
Also, rivers flood. Efficient and sustainable agriculture means irrigation means sustained efforts to tame the waters. The degree to which a neolithic civilization can do this is questionable at best. And expanding too far south of our effective power projection means exposed targets for raiders like the Makar. I think we can do entirely reasonably for ourselves by expanding into the mouth of the valley but no further, while also finding some way to defang Brushcrest and the Makar so we can assert local hegemony.
But all that depends, ofc, on how things transpire in the update.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I think expanding along the river down to the ocean is optimal, its also sufficient far from the Makar, not to say there is no risk, but it is reduced.
Maybe even up Goat River to.