Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Britain
In addition to that, you're taking away most of Greenvalley's main food producers and dropping them in a separate settlement to the artisans. Until we get Pottery, food production is localized. Meaning this new settlement does fine for a turn, while Greenvalley starves to death, and then the new settlement runs out of tools and promptly starves due to not being supplied with the required tools to work.
Yeah you are right didn't notice that I'll edit it out, I guess you could scrounge one production by reducing our dye purchases,
Aren't the hunters still the primary food producers?
They can compensate given that they no longer have to feed those people anymore, and hunting is more space limited than labor limited, plus the hunting should be good this turn given that we haven't been heavily hunting this past turn. And farmers can make their own tools, people aren't constantly ploughing or sowing. Agricultural populations made their own tools all the time.
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- Location
- Germany
The Cultural upkeep takes Culture, not Production.
You can't build houses by praying in our temple.
Huh, got that confused, then what the hell our craftsmen doing if only our artisians are generating production in the balance sheet.
- Location
- Germany
Our workers are producing basic goods (both food and materials like wood and clay).
Our Artisans are translating those to Production (tools, refined materials, etc.) or culture (artwork).
At least that's how I understood the situation @Azel?
- Location
- Britain
edit- blargh missread it to be the other way around
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No, read the sentence again. All the hunters except one are going back to hunting. So two more hunters are providing food for four less mouths.
- Location
- Britain
I know I just saw that. Initially read it as make every hunter except one heavy act as protection for the new settlement. But there I see the problem of one hunter group not being enough to act as good enough garrison. The initial Brushcrest lakefort garrison was some 3 to 5 units. You're sending one heavy unit to act as protection.
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It's about halfway and we can sail downriver rather than fighting against the current like Bushcrest.
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Moreso to act scouts to report any massed force, and to prevent their scouts from just burning our nascent village down before a palisade can be erected in the following turn.
- Location
- Germany
It still doesn't work.
A village costs 1 Production per pop.
We make only +1 Production this turn and that goes into finishing the Longhouses.
We can make one more from the council, but that's not enough.
Do you expect our hunters to sleep outside for an entire generation?
For some months on war or exploration sure, but they can't function the entire time one turn takes without shelter.
And if they don't live in the new village it's near helpless.
Honestly, I'm not really seeing a way forward here.
We can't really expand with our current food limitations and as we are we don't have the manpower to subjugate Bushcrest or do anything else to leverage our military skill into anything truly valuable.
I guess the best we can do it trying to play for cultural supremacy to slowly absorb the White Clans, because our expansion with our own power is running into barriers we can't overcome at our tech level.
A village costs 1 Production per pop.
We make only +1 Production this turn and that goes into finishing the Longhouses.
We can make one more from the council, but that's not enough.
Do you expect our hunters to sleep outside for an entire generation?
For some months on war or exploration sure, but they can't function the entire time one turn takes without shelter.
And if they don't live in the new village it's near helpless.
Honestly, I'm not really seeing a way forward here.
We can't really expand with our current food limitations and as we are we don't have the manpower to subjugate Bushcrest or do anything else to leverage our military skill into anything truly valuable.
I guess the best we can do it trying to play for cultural supremacy to slowly absorb the White Clans, because our expansion with our own power is running into barriers we can't overcome at our tech level.
- Location
- Leicester UK
There is no way we can send for and get reinforcements to Lakefort in time to defend it when Brushcrest retaliates against such obvious and aggressive expansion with just a single group of hunters to defend it, this idea is a complete non starter.
- Location
- Germany
Precisely.
Stuff them into the serfs houses, stop trading production for luxuries, stop mining luxuries for a turn. Sometimes temporary privations are necessary for the long-term good, underconsumption is the source of all capital.
We don't really need all the culture generated by our luxuries this turn, we do need another source of food ASAP. Let the cultural drift of our religion take care of moving the White Clans closer to us. Let time wear away at the cultural memory of the riverlands people.
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Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Inspired by @sunrise
Rationale: We need more farmers, more hunters, more workers. More pops. We've invested quite a bit of effort in culturally and religiously transforming the Clansmen and now it is time to come and collect. Ideally we'd get three gatherer pops, expanding our industry and our food production alike. I don't know if @Azel will allow us to decide mid-turn what we want to retrain them as, but I'm thinking that at least one of the pops could be set to farming.
[X] Plan We Need More Pops
-[X] Send the hunters on a raid.
--[X] scout the lowlands, find out what is going on and are there minor settlements like the one at Lakeford or outlying settlements near Bruchcrest. Avoid conflict.
---[X] 1 Light
-[X] Improve the village by construction sturdy longhouses for the people. (2 of 3 Production paid)
-[X] Send a diplomat to someone.
--[X] To the white clans
---[X] Find clans of appropriate size who believe in the Faith of Bones and persuade them to come to Greenvalley, swear oaths of allegiance to the Council of Three (as the Antler Clan chief did), and become part of the Valley People. The size of the clans should collectively number no more than three pops. Preferably we want two gatherers, 1 herder.
-[X] (Optional) Change the focus of the Pilgrim Village.
--[X] Encourage own culture. (+1 Valley People Culture in Greenvalley)
-[X] Attempt to change a Pops culture to Valley People.
--[X] If diplomatic attempt succeeds, convert one of the three White Clan pops to Valley People. Preferably the highest status pop of the three.
Rationale: We need more farmers, more hunters, more workers. More pops. We've invested quite a bit of effort in culturally and religiously transforming the Clansmen and now it is time to come and collect. Ideally we'd get three gatherer pops, expanding our industry and our food production alike. I don't know if @Azel will allow us to decide mid-turn what we want to retrain them as, but I'm thinking that at least one of the pops could be set to farming.
[X] Plan We Need More Pops
-[X] Send the hunters on a raid.
--[X] scout the lowlands, find out what is going on and are there minor settlements like the one at Lakeford or outlying settlements near Bruchcrest. Avoid conflict.
---[X] 1 Light
-[X] Improve the village by construction sturdy longhouses for the people. (2 of 3 Production paid)
-[X] Send a diplomat to someone.
--[X] To the white clans
---[X] Find clans of appropriate size who believe in the Faith of Bones and persuade them to come to Greenvalley, swear oaths of allegiance to the Council of Three (as the Antler Clan chief did), and become part of the Valley People. The size of the clans should collectively number no more than three pops. Preferably we want two gatherers, 1 herder.
-[X] (Optional) Change the focus of the Pilgrim Village.
--[X] Encourage own culture. (+1 Valley People Culture in Greenvalley)
-[X] Attempt to change a Pops culture to Valley People.
--[X] If diplomatic attempt succeeds, convert one of the three White Clan pops to Valley People. Preferably the highest status pop of the three.
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Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
I don't think culture converting gained pops is a priorty. If we've recruited them through the faith they should already be quite local. We're better off having the vilage keep spreading our culture amongst the White Clans.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Just because they share our faith doesn't mean they share our culture. I'd rather not have unrest or upheaval because suddenly 10% of our settlement now has Ideals and Fads that are totally different from our own.
Hunting/gathering is more limited by space than by people hunting, and face declining returns the more intensively they are pursued, within a turn or two we will face the same food issues that we face this turn, and with less resources in the form of a depleted valley to boot. I don't think this is the right direction.
Walker Of Chaos
Best/Worst Dynasty
- Location
- Sweden
These are people who'd leave their old lifestyle behind in order to migrate to Greenvalley on nothing but faith alone. That does not strike me as the type of people that would immediately start agitating and causing trouble when they come to us. If they found living with us so rephrensible they'd probably just leave and go back to the mountains. If it eventually becomes a problem we can switch the village over but right now I figure we're best off continuing to convert the remaining clans and build off of the momentum left by Speaker.
- Location
- Britain
[X] Plan We Need More Pops
To be fair; by this point their traits are likely similarish to ours.
- Location
- Germany
We haven't hit the limits of farming yet.
And only by getting close to those we can eventually improve.
- Location
- Britain
We aren't at diminishing returns yet and one more hunter pop won't push us over the limit.