Remove ads

SV has an even problem

i have. it was shit. that and i tend to get so caught up in worldbuilding that i feel exhausted and sick of the place by the time i actually get around to writing
 
hellgodsrus said:
Edited. Was writing it as you posted, saw your post as I posted and felt deep shame override my anger. Again, many apologies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also edited it your quote in my post. Don't worry about it. ;)

Honestly, though, the forum structure of SV means it's dominated by trends, trendsetting, and a very specific kind of audience, and lots of stories that would be awesome die a lonely death because there's no audience for it or because people are unwilling to take risks.

(I don't mean you or @WhoAmEye, mind, just talking in general.)

And "familiarity with canon" existing or not existing is used as an argument to disparage stories with frightening regularity, both on and off SV. And I don't think familiarity with canon is necessary to tell a good story. It can lead to awful "fanon", like you said, but that's when the writing is lazy from the get-go, as @EarthScorpion said.

And very often, the "canon" is not worth defending. You don't need all its details, but you need to find people to talk about it with that can correct you if need be, so that you can focus on writing.

Leave canon behind. Kill it if you have to. But always create something new.
 
Last edited:
and now i believe we have truly derailed from the purpose of the original thread, and in a way, rerailed.
Fernandel said:
Honestly, though, the forum structure of SV means it's dominated by trends, trendsetting, and a very specific kind of audience, and lots of shit that would be awesome dies a lonely death because there's no audience for it or because people are unwilling to take risks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So while I believe this is a problem, it's not exactly one that has a fix, or even specifically needs one. The forum has found it's niche.

The real problem is that for some of us, this is the only real place we post, and that niche gives us very little room to expand.
 
Stormwhite said:
I'll note that I'm reasonably certain I could write Worm fanfiction despite never having actually read Worm. I think people overestimate the requirements of familiarity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course you can. Just write whatever and stick the relevant names on it.

It will probably not be good fanfiction, but, hey, that's not what was asked.
 
WhoAmEye said:
So while I believe this is a problem, it's not exactly one that has a fix, or even specifically needs one. The forum has found it's niche.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is theoretically shit that could be fixed on the technical side, honestly.

And even then I kinda want to have more people that do different things because any one of them has the chance of crippling the trends that are currently dominating SV.

But yeah, I get what you mean.
 
Vyslanté said:
It can be. But if you're reading fanfics, it seems reasonable to assume that you care about the "fan" part :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not really. I don't much about Worm, but I do read fanfics people recommend me. It's a matter of taste and such. Then again, I may be an outlier.

In fact, there are many works I haven't read about, but read the fanfiction of.
 
hellgodsrus said:
I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall here. That's what she's been doing. That's what she said she's been trying to do. The issue is the validation system of likes often makes her feel like trying something new isn't worthwhile - or isn't fun, or liked, or good - and she's looking for ways around that that aren't just people saying 'write because it's fun and you enjoy it', which is something I and literally everyone she knows have already said to her like seven times, each.

On top of that, how the fuck are you meant to write fanfic of a work you don't know? That sounds like the fast path to writing terrible fanon versions of characters and situations because you don't know enough about the original source material to separate what is canon and what isn't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, she said that Worm and RWBY were the only fandoms she's that familiar with.

Your ability to write fan fiction of something doesn't follow from how immersed you are in the fan culture surrounding them. If anything, based on what I've seen, the more soaked you are in a given fandom, the less likely you are to produce something good and unique for it.

Like @EarthScorpion, I refuse to believe that she hasn't seen or read any other fiction besides Worm or RWBY. Thus, when she says that those are the only FANDOMS that she's very familiar with, I think its fair to take her wording at face value, and to counsel her not to let "fandom" be her guide.
 
Last edited:
Well, certainly, I want to see more Saejima/Goro Majima fanfiction that explores the complexities of their relationship after Yakuza 5 AND ALSO BEATING UP A TIGER WITH A BASEBALL BAT WHILE RIDING A MOTORBIKE-

But no one's done that.

Shame.
 
Tada Taro said:
Not really. I don't much about Worm, but I do read fanfics people recommend me. It's a matter of taste and such. Then again, I may be an outlier.

In fact, there are many works I haven't read about, but read the fanfiction of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, I'm the total opposite. I refuse to read fanfics of works I do not know because I don't see the point.

Of course, in this context the holy grail is good fanfiction (with an emphasis on both parts); if I want good fiction (without the "fan" part), I already have the unending realm of original fiction.
 
Vyslanté said:
It can be. But if you're reading fanfics, it seems reasonable to assume that you care about the "fan" part :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nope, it's actually completely unreasonable to insist on such a thing and cuts out wide swathes of fanfiction. Fanfic can be transformational; not just curative. Fanfic can treat the original materials like an RPG player treats a sourcebook - ideas to build something new out of, not something to be rotely clung to.

And the transformational fanfic erasure that elements of the community are very prone to is some of the reason - I believe - that less experienced writers mindlessly recycle the stations of canon. They're scared that the twits in the audience will shout at them for going "yeah, throwing that out the window, let's tell a new story". Of course, I don't give a fuck about such complaints, but then again I have a diversified fanbase who'll at least give anything new I start a try. Without that blanket, people complaining about canon compliance when it comes to silly little details are actively harming creativity and innovation.

I'm about at the point where I'd rather see a coffee shop AU rather than another Lung fight. At least a coffee shop AU has the promise of being a character-centred drama.
 
WhoAmEye said:
i ithink in hindsight i meant to write universe and got it mixed up with fandom
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm having trouble parsing this. If you've read or seen the work in question, how much more familiar with its universe can you get? And how much more familiar should you need to get?

I mean, there are some works that have a million user manuals and secondary media and guidebooks and shit that supposedly explain the "true" nature of their worlds that isn't apparent in the work itself. But in those cases, you're honestly better off just ignoring all that crap out of spite if for no other reason.
 
Last edited:
I've read the skullduggery pleasant series (and loved it, but i havent gotten to the latest one yet) but that doesn't mean I'm comfortable writing a fanfic for it. I've read the percy jackson series too, agian, not comfortable with writing fanfic for it and I'd be fucked if my life depended on remembering anything other than the vaguest details of it.

Getting character voices down right is hard. And how often do worm writers have to go to WOG repositories to get information that wasn't available in the main story? If you aren't going to keep some canon elements you might as well just go off and write something original with the same basic premise/genre.

I feel like I'm almost being attacked for not considering myself able to write worthwhile fanfics of things I've read
 
@EarthScorpion: You're misunderstanding me. Of course they can be transformational, I don't mean to imply that a good fanfic has to be the exact same thing as canon, or that it must go through the exact same points, but rather that you still need to have a certain amount of, uh, link to the original.

For instance, your coffeeshop AU example is a totally valid thing — if you're starting with a characterisation that's true to the original.

(though personally I tend to prefer the opposite, keeping the universe but changing the characters, a sort of things that I like to call "meanwhile" fics: What is happening to other places, to other people, while the heroes do their hero-ing)
 
WhoAmEye said:
I've read the skullduggery pleasant series (and loved it, but i havent gotten to the latest one yet) but that doesn't mean I'm comfortable writing a fanfic for it. I've read the percy jackson series too, agian, not comfortable with writing fanfic for it and I'd be fucked if my life depended on remembering anything other than the vaguest details of it.

Getting character voices down right is hard. And how often do worm writers have to go to WOG repositories to get information that wasn't available in the main story? If you aren't going to keep some canon elements you might as well just go off and write something original with the same basic premise/genre.

I feel like I'm almost being attacked for not considering myself able to write worthwhile fanfics of things I've read
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My apologies if you feel attacked. I was honestly just confused by some of the things you seemed to be saying.

Anyway, if you need information that isn't available in the story...honestly, I think you're better off just making it up. Worm in particular is an example I'd point to of an author retroactively making their work worse through non-diagetic reveals. A lot of Wildbow's WoG's make the whole setting much stupider, more contrived, and less compelling than the work itself indicates.
 
Leila Hann said:
I'm having trouble parsing this. If you've read or seen the work in question, how much more familiar with its universe can you get? And how much more familiar should you need to get?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You need to understand more than just the what that you see in the story. You need to understand the why and how behind it in order to play with it properly. You need the god's-eye-view of the playing field in order to understand what you can do with that sandbox.

For example: fictional character A and B are discussing things. A is the viewpoint character, and B lies about the truth about their capabilities. it's always hinted that there's more than it seems, but we who follow A because we have no choice, never get shown that, despite other characters confirming hat there's more it, and that they were lying. If you want to write a fic about what the reveal could be, the what-if, you'd need to understand what their capabilities are more than the viewpoint you got did. You need to understand why the other characters reacted the way they did.
Because this is something that is a near ingrained part of their character, a defining trait in their voice, but as we never get inside their head, we never get to understand it until we look at the further materials or ask the author.

Or, yknow, risk winging it.

Edit: Aaand I got ninja'd. Well, I hope this at least clears up my thoughts on it :/
 
WhoAmEye said:
You need to understand more than just the what that you see in the story. You need to understand the why and how behind it in order to play with it properly. You need the god's-eye-view of the playing field in order to understand what you can do with that sandbox.

For example: fictional character A and B are discussing things. A is the viewpoint character, and B lies about the truth about their capabilities. it's always hinted that there's more than it seems, but we who follow A because we have no choice, never get shown that, despite other characters confirming hat there's more it, and that they were lying. If you want to write a fic about what the reveal could be, the what-if, you'd need to understand what their capabilities are more than the viewpoint you got did. You need to understand why the other characters reacted the way they did.
Because this is something that is a near ingrained part of their character, a defining trait in their voice, but as we never get inside their head, we never get to understand it until we look at the further materials or ask the author.

Or, yknow, risk winging it.

Edit: Aaand I got ninja'd. Well, I hope this at least clears up my thoughts on it :/
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can you give me an example?
 
WhoAmEye said:
You need to understand more than just the what that you see in the story. You need to understand the why and how behind it in order to play with it properly. You need the god's-eye-view of the playing field in order to understand what you can do with that sandbox.

For example: fictional character A and B are discussing things. A is the viewpoint character, and B lies about the truth about their capabilities. it's always hinted that there's more than it seems, but we who follow A because we have no choice, never get shown that, despite other characters confirming hat there's more it, and that they were lying. If you want to write a fic about what the reveal could be, the what-if, you'd need to understand what their capabilities are more than the viewpoint you got did. You need to understand why the other characters reacted the way they did.
Because this is something that is a near ingrained part of their character, a defining trait in their voice, but as we never get inside their head, we never get to understand it until we look at the further materials or ask the author.

Or, yknow, risk winging it.

Edit: Aaand I got ninja'd. Well, I hope this at least clears up my thoughts on it :/
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wing it. Fanfiction's one of the safest places to just wing it.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top