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Suffer Not the Witch (Warhammer 40k Psyker Quest)

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Maugan Ra said:
You blink, and swallow the immediate impulse to reveal your confusion. Ciro thinks that you… well, you suppose if he knows psykers capable of doing such things, then the lone psyker in the group arguing for the daemon's destruction might perhaps be seen as an attempt to remove a rival. You can't do that, you didn't even know it was possible, but… if Ciro thinks that you do, then revealing the truth won't do anything save lowering your perceived value in his eyes. That's a dangerous game to play, especially on the eve of battle.
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Seems potentially dangerous to not correct it.
If he's falsely under the impression that we can navigate he would also assume that we can provide some counter balance to the Daemon he might be inclined to do some things that are suicidally stupid knowing that we can't. Although if he knows we can't then I guess he might see no choice except to keep the daemon around.

All in all, an impressive fuck up for Ciro to not notice that we don't have have a third eye.
 
Dark as Silver said:
All in all, an impressive fuck up for Ciro to not notice that we don't have have a third eye.
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We don't have to be a Navigator to navigate.

A regular Psyker, particularly with a talent for Divination, could do it too, if not as well as a regular Navigator.
The important part is being able to look into the Warp far enough to manage a small jump without hitting a gravity-source on exiting.
The mistake is reasonable.

It might even work as a counterweight to the daemon, since that one can't know we can't navigate either.
 
[X] Nadia. As a seasoned voidfarer and former Rogue Trader, Nadia is the one best positioned to break away and strike out on her own, and her behaviour so far suggests she will at first opportunity. You need to work on convincing her to take you with her when she goes.

[X] Sidhe. The Aeldari are infamous for their duplicity and slippery nature, and if Sidhe hasn't already worked out a way to escape or turn this to her advantage you'd be very surprised. Build on your rapport, and get her on your side.
 
[X] Sidhe. The Aeldari are infamous for their duplicity and slippery nature, and if Sidhe hasn't already worked out a way to escape or turn this to her advantage you'd be very surprised. Build on your rapport, and get her on your side.

She is the least likely to like the Astartes, no conditioning for it and the least likely to care about us being a psyker, I mean sure we are a human, but so are all the others. We are not starting off at a disadvantage

[X] Ciro. You can't keep leaving this ambiguous, you need to know who he is and what he intends. He thinks you have accepted his authority, surely he will be willing to reveal something you can work with?

Get to know him a bit better before we write him off. I expect we might need to kill him eventually, but we could still be surprised I think.

[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)

This is not going to make us an expert in either, but it will at least make us less bad and I think that given the dangers involved it would be foolish to ignore socials.
 
[X] Bore. The tech-priest is an enigma, but his skills will make him valuable to both you and prospective future patrons. You need to know what makes him tick, how to read and predict him, else he will always be a dangerous unknown.

[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)
 
I'd like to interact with Bore more since he has a very different skillset than the rest and we have not interacted with him very much at all. Well that and we should have no desire to get on the badside of a cybernetic spiderman whose every limb probably has three ways of killing us if we let our guard down. Better that we try and reach a point where we could be less guarded. Ditto for Ciro on the second point.

I would also invest in our social skills pretty heavily, for about half our points, because reading subtle social cues on all these modified faces and modified voices could save our life later.However i'm afraid I'm not sure what else to invest points in. Time for me to see what's popular in the thread I guess.
 
16 characters said:
I'd like to interact with Bore more since he has a very different skillset than the rest and we have not interacted with him very much at all. Well that and we should have no desire to get on the badside of a cybernetic spiderman whose every limb probably has three ways of killing us if we let our guard down. Better that we try and reach a point where we could be less guarded. Ditto for Ciro on the second point.

I would also invest in our social skills pretty heavily, for about half our points, because reading subtle social cues on all these modified faces and modified voices could save our life later.However i'm afraid I'm not sure what else to invest points in. Time for me to see what's popular in the thread I guess.
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We do not really have that much XP to play around with, might as well bump our base stat for social and then take deception when with being surrounded by potential enemies. There is and argument to be made for persuasion, but I do not think we are in a position to use that yet.
 
[X] Sidhe. The Aeldari are infamous for their duplicity and slippery nature, and if Sidhe hasn't already worked out a way to escape or turn this to her advantage you'd be very surprised. Build on your rapport, and get her on your side.

[X] Ciro. You can't keep leaving this ambiguous, you need to know who he is and what he intends. He thinks you have accepted his authority, surely he will be willing to reveal something you can work with?

[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)
 
Point well made dragon Paradox
-[X]Bore
-[x][Ciro]
[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)
Dark as Silver said:
Seems potentially dangerous to not correct it.
If he's falsely under the impression that we can navigate he would also assume that we can provide some counter balance to the Daemon he might be inclined to do some things that are suicidally stupid knowing that we can't. Although if he knows we can't then I guess he might see no choice except to keep the daemon around.

All in all, an impressive fuck up for Ciro to not notice that we don't have a third eye.
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I hope y'all can forgive my ignorance on the finest details of this but can Navigators not also be Biomancers, couldn't we have an extra eye but hidden?
 
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16 characters said:
Point well made dragon Paradox
-[X]Bore
-[x][Ciro]
[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)

I hope y'all can forgive my ignorance on the finest details of this but can Navigators not also be Biomancers, couldn't we have an extra eye but hidden?
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I don't feel confident answering this authoritatively. Its a big galaxy so there can always be exceptions to the rule even if I'm right.
I don't think so however. Or possibly they could if they really wanted to but that would take time away from studying the incredibly important and prestigious field that earnt them a seat among the High Lords of Terra. So I don't know why they'd take time out to learn a generally looked down upon skill
 
[X] Ciro. You can't keep leaving this ambiguous, you need to know who he is and what he intends. He thinks you have accepted his authority, surely he will be willing to reveal something you can work
 
16 characters said:
I hope y'all can forgive my ignorance on the finest details of this but can Navigators not also be Biomancers, couldn't we have an extra eye but hidden?
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They don't get access to biomancy as a rule, if they did they wouldn't have to worry so much about getting older and less humanoid.

[X] Sidhe. The Aeldari are infamous for their duplicity and slippery nature, and if Sidhe hasn't already worked out a way to escape or turn this to her advantage you'd be very surprised. Build on your rapport, and get her on your side.

[X] Bore. The tech-priest is an enigma, but his skills will make him valuable to both you and prospective future patrons. You need to know what makes him tick, how to read and predict him, else he will always be a dangerous unknown.

[X] Plan Learn how to Lie
-[X] +1 Fellowship (- 6 XP)
-[X] +1 Deception (- 6 XP)
The Curious Fan threw 1 2-faced dice. Reason: Coin toss vote Total: 1
1 1
 
[X] Nadia. As a seasoned voidfarer and former Rogue Trader, Nadia is the one best positioned to break away and strike out on her own, and her behaviour so far suggests she will at first opportunity. You need to work on convincing her to take you with her when she goes.

[X] Sidhe. The Aeldari are infamous for their duplicity and slippery nature, and if Sidhe hasn't already worked out a way to escape or turn this to her advantage you'd be very surprised. Build on your rapport, and get her on your side.
 
OK, let's see, checking the tally as it currently is I can see a lot of support for Sidhe, with Nadia in a fairly decent second place. Interestingly though there's only five votes for what to spend the xp on, which makes me suspect that the current model of just listing the prices for everything isn't a particularly workable method, or at least that there's a stumbling block I didn't consider properly in advance.

Would people prefer that I switch back to, say, the Wolves and Witches method where I offered a choice of a number of pre-made "package" advances, rather than the more freeform and flexible option I'm using now?
 
[X] Ciro. You can't keep leaving this ambiguous, you need to know who he is and what he intends. He thinks you have accepted his authority, surely he will be willing to reveal something you can work

Maugan Ra said:
Would people prefer that I switch back to, say, the Wolves and Witches method where I offered a choice of a number of pre-made "package" advances, rather than the more freeform and flexible option I'm using now?
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Maybe do both? Or give us an example to use as a guide. The main thing stopping me personally from making one is that I have zero experience with the system, so can't speak for other people.
 
16 characters said:
I hope y'all can forgive my ignorance on the finest details of this but can Navigators not also be Biomancers, couldn't we have an extra eye but hidden?
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Navigators aren't actually psykers, they just have an eye that opens a hole into the warp when it's opened, they can't learn any of the psyker disciplines. Apparently it's a lot more reliable than using regular psykers because Imperial ships pretty much always go with navigators, even with their absurd price tag.

Imrix said:
I'll bet 50 likes on Ciro not being any kind of Chaos aligned, and the signs to the contrary being some combination of red herrings and people reading too much into things. I know a bit of how Maugan's mind works, his storytelling tastes, and Ciro's been pinging as 'non-Chaos renegade, probably neck-deep in some small-time secret faction that's out for its own ideals' for me since the start. In particular, there is no way I buy that we're going to the Koronus Expanse in order to hook us into Black Crusade's style of game, given what Maugan has had to say about that game in the past. If he wanted to tell a Chaos Cultist story, I reckon he'd be sending us literally anywhere else, in point of fact.
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I'll take that bet, because I know Maugan likes to give us enough rope to hang us with, and it's one of the primary goals of the quest to see how hard avoiding chaos gets. Also, the blatant Alpha Legionnaire spoke with a daemon behind all our backs, justified not killing it because he doesn't trust us to act in everyone's best interest without the threat of being replaced by a daemon, and is taking us all into a literal warp storm. Nobody does that and stays sane, because anything else is a better idea! The place is full of actual chaos worshippers, if it could be taken back with anywhere near the firepower a small non-chaos faction could bring to bear, the Imperium would have already taken it as a staging ground against chaos. The faction out for it's own ideals is just the Alpha Legion, which has a thing about just betraying everyone for their own inscrutable goals. Ciro can just lie harder and harder until he's done with us, and it's not even particularly difficult for him to do so. Also, he went to a shrine world and murdered a ton of pilgrims for unknown reasons, but there aren't all that many good reasons to ever do that in the first place.

There are a lot of twisty justifications for how he could be not a chaos worshipper, but none of them really line up with his actions all that well. "Putting up with daemons for now" turns into "put up with daemons until you die" really quick.
 
zang269 said:
The place is full of actual chaos worshippers, if it could be taken back with anywhere near the firepower a small non-chaos faction could bring to bear, the Imperium would have already taken it as a staging ground against chaos.
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I'm a bit confused by this. The plan is not and has never been to take the world we are going to by force, we just sail up to their port and try to charter passage there, if I understood it correctly.
 
Maugan Ra said:
OK, let's see, checking the tally as it currently is I can see a lot of support for Sidhe, with Nadia in a fairly decent second place. Interestingly though there's only five votes for what to spend the xp on, which makes me suspect that the current model of just listing the prices for everything isn't a particularly workable method, or at least that there's a stumbling block I didn't consider properly in advance.

Would people prefer that I switch back to, say, the Wolves and Witches method where I offered a choice of a number of pre-made "package" advances, rather than the more freeform and flexible option I'm using now?
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You could to pre-pakaging with an option to write in a different plan if one should occur to us.

zang269 said:
I'll take that bet, because I know Maugan likes to give us enough rope to hang us with, and it's one of the primary goals of the quest to see how hard avoiding chaos gets. Also, the blatant Alpha Legionnaire spoke with a daemon behind all our backs, justified not killing it because he doesn't trust us to act in everyone's best interest without the threat of being replaced by a daemon, and is taking us all into a literal warp storm. Nobody does that and stays sane, because anything else is a better idea! The place is full of actual chaos worshippers, if it could be taken back with anywhere near the firepower a small non-chaos faction could bring to bear, the Imperium would have already taken it as a staging ground against chaos. The faction out for it's own ideals is just the Alpha Legion, which has a thing about just betraying everyone for their own inscrutable goals. Ciro can just lie harder and harder until he's done with us, and it's not even particularly difficult for him to do so. Also, he went to a shrine world and murdered a ton of pilgrims for unknown reasons, but there aren't all that many good reasons to ever do that in the first place.

There are a lot of twisty justifications for how he could be not a chaos worshipper, but none of them really line up with his actions all that well. "Putting up with daemons for now" turns into "put up with daemons until you die" really quick.
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Given how horrifically memetically dangerous Chaos is in 40K any sort of peaceful contact with daemons is a reason to label someone a chaos worshiper and run just on the basis of playing the odds 99.9999% of the times this is someone being evil or too stupid to live.
 
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You know, it's probably a bad idea, but we know we can take down Ciro in two hits with average damage, and he's already wounded... Could we just solve this problem here and now?
 
I'd be pretty worried about him reading our body language and stuff and anticipating our attack before we even make it.
 
[X] Nadia. As a seasoned voidfarer and former Rogue Trader, Nadia is the one best positioned to break away and strike out on her own, and her behaviour so far suggests she will at first opportunity. You need to work on convincing her to take you with her when she goes.
[X] Ciro. You can't keep leaving this ambiguous, you need to know who he is and what he intends. He thinks you have accepted his authority, surely he will be willing to reveal something you can work with?

Look I'd really like to know where Ciro thinks he's going. Maybe sticking around long term will be...maybe not good, but the best option. Maybe not. But we need to both (1) be friends with someone who can help us jump ship but (2) know exactly how eager we need to be to jump ship. That second one is pretty important.
 
Let's be honest here. Ciro had his chance to justify his choice. Nadia explicitly asked him too and proposed some alternatives. Instead of explanations we got a "my way or the highway" speech. Socialising with Ciro has now become a sunk cost fallacy, it will only delay us and give him more chances to fuck with our head.
 
zang269 said:
I'll take that bet, because I know Maugan likes to give us enough rope to hang us with, and it's one of the primary goals of the quest to see how hard avoiding chaos gets. Also, the blatant Alpha Legionnaire spoke with a daemon behind all our backs, justified not killing it because he doesn't trust us to act in everyone's best interest without the threat of being replaced by a daemon, and is taking us all into a literal warp storm. Nobody does that and stays sane, because anything else is a better idea! The place is full of actual chaos worshippers, if it could be taken back with anywhere near the firepower a small non-chaos faction could bring to bear, the Imperium would have already taken it as a staging ground against chaos. The faction out for it's own ideals is just the Alpha Legion, which has a thing about just betraying everyone for their own inscrutable goals. Ciro can just lie harder and harder until he's done with us, and it's not even particularly difficult for him to do so. Also, he went to a shrine world and murdered a ton of pilgrims for unknown reasons, but there aren't all that many good reasons to ever do that in the first place.

There are a lot of twisty justifications for how he could be not a chaos worshipper, but none of them really line up with his actions all that well. "Putting up with daemons for now" turns into "put up with daemons until you die" really quick.
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Cool, bet's on.
DragonParadox said:
Given how horrifically memetically dangerous Chaos is in 40K any sort of peaceful contact with daemons is a reason to label someone a chaos worshiper and run just on the basis of playing the odds 99.9999% of the times this is someone being evil or too stupid to live.
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Chaos is not, in point of fact, horrifically memetically dangerous outside of badly written bolter porn. It is a temptation, yes, largely because the Imperium is pathologically incapable of offering an attractive alternative, but "the chaos artifact just brainjacks you from being near it" is a sign of bad writing, not how the faction should work. I know Maugan agrees with me on this, I've seen him argue as much on discord, so like don't be so certain in your assumptions.
 
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