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Stark Quest 2.0: The Search for Shinies

[X] Find an Angreal while in Pentos. If this wins, we will roll a 1d1000 to see how strong it is. No Ta'veren bonus applied
- [X] Spend 75 XP to add a dice.

Offensive magic is a completely pointless at the moment, as it helps us kill neither Drogo nor Jorah, and Robb or Jon can trivially kill anyone else. It does pretty much nothing to help us, and we can always train it later when we leave Pentos. The one possible exception would be Possession, but no one is voting for that anyway. The only way to defeat them is to recover Ithroen, and his presence makes our own petty magics irrelevant.

In canon Jorah continued to send reports on Daenerys back to Varys for a year after he fell in love with her. I see no reason to believe that he'd be any more loyal here. Assuming he'd change sides on Daenerys' behalf is pretty stupid.
 
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Ishaq said:
Besides that we put the one level with exp in it to save xp in the future. We get 3 levels now. Going from 4 to 7 is worth more than from 3 to 6. Buying level 4 is way cheaper than buying level 7. And we would have a significant weapon against our foes.
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If we learn a different Sequence, then we have Understanding 3, so learning Destruction 4 will take 3D-10D without any further augmentations. With Regeneration 6, it's another 15% less sleep and a greater margin for error that will allow us to regularly use Augmentation sequences for learning without going insane. That means we'll only need, what, a quarter of the time to learn stuff on average, probably even less.
Destruction 4 causes the target to become extremely disoriented, which is already enough for combat. Destruction 5, which makes people faint, will take 2M-6M without Augmentations and with Understanding 3 (which will probably increase further after we use our Magics). With Augmentations, it's a month on average, probably less.
So in the end, we waste this opportunity to improve our Augmentations to get an equivalent of what we could learn in a month?
We don't have to kill people with our mind, that's entirely excessive for what we need. I mean, it's nice to have, but is that worth this price? I think not.

Ishaq said:
Then he will die. We give him a mere chance. We don't need him. Just getting him out of the way would be nice. But If he doesn't want to there is nothing left we can do.
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Yes, there is. We simply don't pull a Robb and avoid using our Mind Magic like a hammer. There's other ways to get what we want that don't involve attacking them head-on. Like looking for Ithroen, without whom our chances don't look so great anyway.
 
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If you go for the angreal, its better to add dice and go 2d1000.

However I do feel destruction 7 can be usefull. In truth, I wonder if the better possession would have been better, however Destruction was more popular.


Unelemental said:
If we learn a different Sequence, then we have Understanding 3, so learning Destruction 4 will take 3D-10D without any further augmentations. With Regeneration 6, it's another 15% less sleep and a greater margin for error that will allow us to regularly use Augmentation sequences for learning without going insane. That means we'll only need, what, a quarter of the time to learn stuff on average, probably even less.
Destruction 4 causes the target to become extremely disoriented, which is already enough for combat. Destruction 5, which makes people faint, will take 2M-6M without Augmentations and with Understanding 3 (which will probably increase further after we use our Magics). With Augmentations, it's a month on average, probably less.
So in the end, we waste this opportunity to improve our Augmentations to get an equivalent of what we could learn in a month?
We don't have to kill people with our mind, that's entirely excessive for what we need. I mean, it's nice to have, but is that worth this price? I think not.
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Can't calculate now (not home ;)), but I figure even if we got regeneration, it would still be worth it to buy it up first to get to level 7. This is because both the XP cost and difficulty increase greatly as we go up. Buying a level before a bonus of 3 makes sense.
 
Datakim said:
If you go for the angreal, its better to add dice and go 2d1000.
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True

Datakim said:
However I do feel destruction 7 can be usefull. In truth, I wonder if the better possession would have been better, however Destruction was more popular.
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It seems utterly pointless to me. It's perhaps the least useful thing we can buy. We can already easily kill anyone that Destruction would work on. Almost any of the other offensive Mind magics would be more useful, and they're still bad choices.
 
Datakim said:
If you go for the angreal, its better to add dice and go 2d1000.

However I do feel destruction 7 can be usefull. In truth, I wonder if the better possession would have been better, however Destruction was more popular.
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More useful how? It won't work against Shardplate, and if we use it against the bloodriders, we're attracting attention to ourselves and making us a target for the magic-hating Dothraki. In a fight of our group vs. their group, we might win (the chances aren't great, but what if Jon defeats Drogo by himself? ...Yeah, right), but the losses would be horrendous.

Can't calculate now (not home ;)), but I figure even if we got regeneration, it would still be worth it to buy it up first to get to level 7. This is because both the XP cost and difficulty increase greatly as we go up. Buying a level before a bonus of 3 makes sense.
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It would cost 150 XP. Over my dead body. :mad: :p
We're not in a hurry to learn the skills now-now-now (they won't significantly change the current situation), and Augmentation pays for itself in the long term, reducing the cost of learning Sequences. But to really use that, we need Regeneration at higher levels.

Edit: @Mazrick, can we do this vote after we've scouted Drogo's manse? We have no idea what's going on inside, and whether Ithroen is captured or free might make us change our approach.
 
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Datakim said:
@Mazrick, can you give us confirmation at which level sequences start ignoring shards? I always thought 9, since Ithroen has 9 and he can do so. Enjou however said 8. Did you say that 8 is enough somewhere and I missed it?
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I don't believe I specified in any case. 9 makes the most sense to me. It rewards taking the time and effort to get that high.

Also, are higher levels of destruction more likely to pierce through other kinds of defenses too, like the anti-mind ter'angreal.
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It'd be more likely, but remember I did allow a roll for the attack against Illyrio while he was wearing the chain. So, its not infallible in any case.

Ten is where you'll ignore any defense save the best defenses of a living mind.

Edkose said:
@Mazrick
Does spamming the lower levels of destruction carry the same risk if we get to level 7 destruction?
In a fight causing more people to faint would be better than killing just one.
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Can you clarify what you mean here?:)
 
You guys know that with destruction 9 we will be able to ignore shardplate? That means if we get to 7 there is only two more level to kill almost anybody instantly.

Edit: I don't care that much for which one we take. There is a couple I would vote for. Regeneration and Possession would be great, too
 
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Ishaq said:
You guys know that with destruction 8 (or 9. Not sure which one it was. Don't want to give false info) we will be able to ignore shardplate? That means if we get to 7 there is only one more level to kill almost anybody instantly.
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...One more level, you say. It' actually 2, as Mazrick confirmed, and that would take years without Augmentation. Years.
 
I edited my post after I read Mazrick's.
Look I don't really care for this. You are attacking me as if had the idea for that.

I'll go with my first vote.

[X] Extreme Growth Spurt within one of the Three Magic disciplines the next time you train it. (+3 in the chosen spell; +1 in a discipline)
-[X] Write-in. Mind magic (+1), Regeneration (+3)

Reasoning: Most useful in the long term. Doesn't give us an advantage now, but that's ok. The nearer we are pressed against the wall, the more shinies we find :)
 
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Sorry if I came across as too aggressive, it's just aggravating when people pounce upon an improvement without taking everything into account. Don't get me wrong, 'killing people with your mind' sounds awesome, but taking this low-hanging fruit will hurt our development in the long run without really giving us more options, as far as I can see. I would be glad to be proven wrong though, if that means we can actually defeat the opposition.
 
I dunno. Regeneration 6 has 10% chance of healing insanity. I assume that means that we need 90+ on a roll of 1d100 to recover. Pretty poor chances of healing insanity. We also get slightly more reduced sleep. We do recover from mental stability damage better, but we can do that on level 3 too, since it seems to be %/daily. Its just slower.

Level 7 would give 20%, and 8 40%

Can you calculate how long it would take to reach from 6 to 8 (which gives an actually reasonable chance of healing insanity).

How much XP would it take to go from 6 to 7 later. What about 7 to 8.
 
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Honestly, I think the only magic which is worth it is Possession (or Blood Magic, for Divination). Everything else we can develop later and doesn't help now, unlike getting an angreal.
 
Unelemental said:
More useful how? It won't work against Shardplate, and if we use it against the bloodriders, we're attracting attention to ourselves and making us a target for the magic-hating Dothraki.
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How so? To the Dothraki it would just appear that they dropped dead. Spooky as all fucking hell, but that doesn't point to Harlon.

In a fight of our group vs. their group, we might win (the chances aren't great, but what if Jon defeats Drogo by himself? ...Yeah, right), but the losses would be horrendous.
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We wouldn't have Jon fight Drogo alone. We'd plan better than that. Remember that we have Robb now, and we could possibly get Jorah to turn sides by either getting Dany to order him to or by threatening that we'd kill her if he doesn't cooperate.


Alratan said:
In canon Jorah continued to send reports on Daenerys back to Varys for a year after he fell in love with her. I see no reason to believe that he'd be any more loyal here. Assuming he'd change sides on Daenerys' behalf is pretty stupid.
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Ithroen already confirmed that he stopped spying for Varys months ago. You know, because he actually read his mind when he possessed him.
 
If going from 7 to 9 on destruction (complexity 3) would take years, then going from regen (complex 7) level 6 to something usefull like level 8 would likely take decades. If we do go regen, I would recommend buying XP level. It may be harsh, but it would be required for regeneration to actually do something usefull anytime this decade. Will calculate when I get home.

Alratan said:
Honestly, I think the only magic which is worth it is Possession (or Blood Magic, for Divination). Everything else we can develop later and doesn't help now, unlike getting an angreal.
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Possession would be usefull aswell. IF we buy a level, I think we get 30 minutes of possession.

I admit that might actually be more usefull than destruction. It would still allow us to kill people, but also use it for non-combat purposes.

It would basically be mini-BLOOD GLAMOUR that works on everyone, but only for 30 minutes.
 
@Mazrick, with possession, how long does Harlon have to escape the body?

For example, lets say we possess a bloodrider, have him pull a knife and stab himself in the stomach or kidneys or something thats not instantly fatal.

Can Harlon escape before the bloodrider dies (since at that level we don't have death immunity).
 
Edkose said:
Let's say we get the understanding of the destruction sequences to level 7.

How many times can we safely use the level 5 sequence in that case.

Will higher level increase the amount of safe use of the lower levels.
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1st use: safe
2nd beat 3 on 1d1000
3rd beat 33 on 1d1000
4th beat 333 on 1d1000
5th always causes instability.

So if we let Enjou roll, and if he does 1 poorer than normal, we can only use it once. :)

Ofcourse, Destruction is level 3 and complexity 3. Presumably one of those is responsible for that 3. So with level 7 it might be 7 on 2nd 1d1000 / 3rd 77 on 1d1000 and so on.
 
Datakim said:
I dunno. Regeneration 6 has 10% chance of healing insanity. I assume that means that we need 90+ on a roll of 1d100 to recover. Pretty poor chances of healing insanity. We also get slightly more reduced sleep. We do recover from mental stability damage better, but we can do that on level 3 too, since it seems to be %/daily. Its just slower.

Level 7 would give 20%, and 8 40%

Can you calculate how long it would take to reach from 6 to 8 (which gives an actually reasonable chance of healing insanity).

How much XP would it take to go from 6 to 7 later. What about 7 to 8.
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Using Acceleration/Multitasking/etc for training our Sequences regularly probably doesn't accrue Insanity unless we really overdo it. Remember, Insanity is what happens when we do too much stuff. But we can't very well use the Augmentations if it constantly makes our mind unstable and our Regeneration only slowly recovers it. 60% is much better than 10% in this regard.

It would be advantageous to get to Level 7 Regeneration if we were in a hurry, but with using Augmentations, we can get the necessary experience comparatively quickly, and it'll turn out to be just a waste of XP.

Alratan said:
Honestly, I think the only magic which is worth it is Possession (or Blood Magic, for Divination). Everything else we can develop later and doesn't help now, unlike getting an angreal.
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Getting an angreal doesn't help now either, as there's no One Power yet, and won't be for a few weeks at least.

Enjou said:
How so? To the Dothraki it would just appear that they dropped dead. Spooky as all fucking hell, but that doesn't point to Harlon.
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Rule number one: don't expect our enemies to be idiots. It has already bitten us in the ass more than one time and led to Theon's death.
They'd be attacking us anyway, and this will only make us a more attractive target.

Enjou said:
We wouldn't have Jon fight Drogo alone. We'd plan better than that. Remember that we have Robb now, and we could possibly get Jorah to turn sides by either getting Dany to order him to or by threatening that we'd kill her if he doesn't cooperate.
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Sure, of course Jorah will go for that instead of waiting until we're distracted and backstab us.
And what exactly is Robb going to do in a fight between Shardbearers besides dying pointlessly?
 
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Datakim said:
Assuming we can do the possess-stabself-runforitbeforedeath thing, then its about as good as destruction.
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It's significantly better than Destruction, as we can use it to do things like ride around in people's minds.

If we were to get it to Level 7 we could even access a Bloddrider's memories and find out what happened at the docks, although that would take 200 XP.
 
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