Note Lucas made the concept and stuff first, the movie was in production for some time. It's others who added stuff on top of that, we just *saw* it first.
Yeah. It's a case of the EU actually improving on and fleshing out a bit character again. Well, not bit, but you know what I mean. They made a head-canon so powerful that 'now all that is canon' isn't all that impressive.

So yeah, Grevious might actually be a poster example for 'The EU enriches and makes three-dimensional some characters from canon.'
It's like what was recently revealed about the YT-2400 (can't remember if I mentioned it in here?): turns out it wasn't an EU element brought into the SE, it was in fact a background ship designed for the SE, and that's all it would have been. Except Shadows of the Empire was also being made during that time, they needed a ship for Dash Rendar, and thus was a popular misconception born.
 
That's Gaiman quoting GK Chesterton.

Not the first time I've had to correct this.
And Pratchett either quoted it or paraphrased it in the vampire book.

There was a old comic book out their that when released was immediately labeled non canon. It focused on a Jedi Sentinel during the Jedi Sith Wars. I don't have the comic anymore but it was brutal the guy took on ten Sith Lords at the same time and killed them all with his bare hands.
Actual Sith lords, or people who Darth Maul/General Grevious would have carved through by the dozen
 
That's Gaiman quoting GK Chesterton.

Not the first time I've had to correct this.
Dammit, I had a feeling I was misattributing it, but Gaiman is who it was linked to in my head.

Yeah. It's a case of the EU actually improving on and fleshing out a bit character again. Well, not bit, but you know what I mean. They made a head-canon so powerful that 'now all that is canon' isn't all that impressive.

So yeah, Grevious might actually be a poster example for 'The EU enriches and makes three-dimensional some characters from canon.'
It's a little bit more complex then that- remember Lucas is the guy with good ideas, horrible execution.

Jason Fry does a good breakdown on his competing backstories in his Endnotes for The Essential Guide to Warfare:
Jason Fry said:
War Portrait: General Grievous: Grievous famously has two competing backstories. The EU depicts him as a Kaleesh warlord who was made into a patsy by the Separatists, who arranged a shuttle crash and messed with his brain, turning him into a killer. Via Dave Filoni, we know George Lucas imagined Grievous as a failed Force-sensitive who voluntarily shed his humanity (or his Kaleesh-ity) to become a sort of mechanical Jedi.

They're both good yarns that give some depth and dimension to a character who otherwise might seem like a one-note bad guy twisting a metal mustache – I particularly like the poignant detail (from the Grievous-as-patsy story) of Grievous becoming enraged at being mistaken for a droid. When all is said and done, though, I confess I like the Lucas backstory better. The idea of a would-be Jedi so consumed with rage at being rejected that he turns himself into a soulless machine is interesting in its own right and serves as a tragic premonition of Anakin's fall – though it's too bad, given the resonances between the two tales, that continuity won't allow Anakin and Grievous to cross sabers in the Clone Wars. They strike me as better "natural rivals" than Obi-Wan and Grievous.

Anyway, back to the two backstories. I rejected the idea of trying for a retcon that incorporated them both – they're so different that I think such a "fix" would be awfully strained, a retcon for retcon's sake that could never feel convincing. Like Filoni before me, I left things ambiguous, using quarreling historians as a disguise.
 
Dammit, I had a feeling I was misattributing it, but Gaiman is who it was linked to in my head.


It's a little bit more complex then that- remember Lucas is the guy with good ideas, horrible execution.

Jason Fry does a good breakdown on his competing backstories in his Endnotes for The Essential Guide to Warfare:
I agree on what Jason Fry says about Grievous
 
So, @Kylar, do you have anything to say about Trade Federation? What were they up to before Naboo?
A few things, actually. In 44BBY, they were part of a little clusterfuck called the Stark Hyperspace war, and they also spent a while before, during, and after the events of Episode 1 fucking up the Karthakk system for maad caash and profit.

At this rate, I might end up doing a general retro prequel era roundup...
 
For the life of me, I can't find a Star Wars General thread, assuming we even have one. So, while this doesn't quite fit, I'm going to add my thoughts anyway and then tie it in (sort of) with the rest of the thread.

====BEGIN NEW CANON STUFF====

So, Thrawn has a theme now, which he hasn't had since the TIE Fighter game. Personally, I prefer the version in Rebels, but TF was pretty good. Have a listen:

Star Wars Rebels - Thrawn's Arrival Audio Cue | StarWars.com
Star Wars Rebels - Thrawn's Web Audio Cue | StarWars.com
Star Wars Rebels - Thrawn's True Face Audio Cue | StarWars.com

"Thrawn's Arrival" certainly provides an excellent introduction for the titular Grand Admiral, and is appropriately sinister while maintaining an air of menace. "Thrawn's Web" is his theme on full display, and if you want a generic "Thrawn's Theme" akin to the Imperial March of the Emperor's Theme from Episode VI, this is pretty much it. "Thrawn's True Face" is an excellent exploration of the theme: starting off slow and sinister as Thrawn sets up his demonstration, with the theme coming back in a booming, intimidating manner as he makes his lethal point before finishing off on an almost melancholy and sad variation as the reality of what he's done sinks in for Ezra. Brilliant, utterly brilliant.

I can never, ever give enough praise for what Kevin Kiner has contributed to the Star Wars musical legacy ever since The Clone Wars came out in theaters - whatever you thought about the movie itself, give the soundtrack a listen because there's a lot to appreciate - and since then over two TV shows (and hopefully more!) he has continued to build an enduring legacy that is worthy of being in the same Galaxy as John William's epic scores from 1977.

Just because I can't express it enough doesn't mean I won't try when the opportunity arises, though. ;)

====END NEW CANON STUFF====

So, to tie it in: seriously, this theme would work so well for basically every appearance Thrawn had. Think back to Heir to the Empire when Pellaeon first goes into the Grand Admiral's ready room and encounters him for the first time (from our perspective, at least). Then, add in the music from "Thrawn's Web" over that scene. Tell me it doesn't fit the mood and character of Grand Admiral Thrawn and that scene in general perfectly. Actually, upon further thought, "Thrawn's Arrival" is an excellent contender for that scene, with "Web" working just about anywhere, but especially in moments like when he deduces where Princess Leia went after she, Han and Lando left Nkllon. And that climactic moment in "Thrawn's True Face" (REBELS SPOILER: after he blows up Ezra's friend on the speeder bike) would fit perfectly with the scene where Thrawn has Rukh execute Crewman Cris Pieterson, who refused to acknowledge his mistake and attempted to pass the blame on to his superior officer.

Rebels has been noted for bringing in some old EU elements, but let's consider for this moment what could be contributed back the other way if we chose to do so.
 
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Nothing stopping you from making one.

There is, however, a Rebels thread here: TV - Star Wars Rebels
I know about the Rebels thread, I just posted in there. :V

Ultimately I was making that post, with or without a General thread. The original plan was just to link back/quote that text between the ====NEW CANON==== thingies (a technical term, I assure you) and then discuss it in relation to Thrawn's old EU origins. So either way it works out.
 
The Trade Federation
So, @Kylar, do you have anything to say about Trade Federation? What were they up to before Naboo?
Eh, why not. Get ready for more information from The Essential Guide to Warfare!

(There seems to be a trend in this thread.)

The Trade Federation: Origins
The Trade Federation was founded 350 BBY, or about 320 years before the prequals. It initially was actually a lobby group for planets being exploited by ruthless traders- yes the fact they became what they fought was deliberate on Jason Fry's part. In time it moved into the trading business itself, and in those days it was actually a pretty legit good force in the galaxy- helping keep mega corp exploitation down, improving space lanes, helping the push against piracy, etc. They did a lot to help blaze trade routes into the Outer Rim- something that became something of a point of contention later. It also was not Nemodian dominated at that point- the Gran were huge players till they got distracted by one of their colonies committing atrocities and the nemodians used it to take more control, and remained major players all the way through the Clone Wars. There also was a surprising amount of humans as remembers, but more on that in a bit.

Course, they didn't stay that way, they kept growing and changing, and not for the better. Eventually they wound up what you see in the prequels- an exploitative megacorp in every sense of the term. Then about 150-67 BBY (I have conflicting dates), the Republic got hit by some sort of economic problem. Details are scarce, but trade to the Outer Rim was drying up. So they declared Free Trade Zones in an effort to jumpstart trading. As part of the horse trading involved, Corporations got allowed seats in the Senate (that is way more recent then I thought it was). Which worked- it boosted trade- but the Trade Federation and other later Separatist aligned groups wound up with virtual monopolies. They leveraged that into getting a lot of Outer Rim Worlds giving them their votes, and economic strangle-holding more. It also made them shit tons of money, that they used to buy more votes. Net effect, they were very quickly a major player in the Senate- as in getting near Kingmaker status around Naboo.

Fast forward a bit, and you get the Stark Hyperspace War, which I'll let @The Englanderish cover- I haven't read the comics in question, though The Essential Guide to Warfare devotes a solid chunk of a chapter to the conflict. Long story short, the Trade Federation, always somewhat militant (pirates are a problem in Star Wars) was getting a lot more so, especially given their, if you'll pardon the pun, imperial trading practices were gaining them outright terrorist groups attacking them. And so we lead up to Naboo.

A Prelude to Naboo
A lot of what follows comes from Cloak of Deception, an early prequal era EU novel. Its a pretty decent read- not winning any awards, buts it solid and enjoyable, and it features what I think was nearly every named Jedi in the EU at that point- mostly in cameos, but still. But getting back to the Trade Federation, at this point it was run by a Directorate of seven beings: four humans, two from Kuat (yes, the ship builders who basically made the Clones vehicles entirely) one from Balmorra ('neutral' weapon makers who want to sell their guns and battle droids to everyone- they went Separatist in the Clone Wars, while still selling war droids to the Republic) and one from Filve (apparently they make droids? It's really unremarkable), one Gran, one Sullustan, and of course, a Nemodian who held the position of Viceroy and was the leader of the whole thing. He's a familiar face: Nute Gunray.

Without summarizing to much of the plot, Supreme Chancellor Valorum wanted to end the Free Trade Zones, because they weren't doing the intended thing anymore, and were making things worse in the Senate. He was aided heavily in the endevour by Senator Sheev Palpatine of Naboo, which really should tell you everything you need to know about how it ended. But the Trade Federation was rather against the whole idea of getting taxed again (and was using the risks they incurred blazing the hyperspace route the trade depended on as a reason why they shouldn't be: they took the risks, they should garner the rewards), so the Republic was going to loosen the restrictions on their armed forces so they could better deal with terrorists and pirates. Long story short, terrorists hit the conference to discuss the changes, and killed all the Directorate members but Nute Gunray, the taxes went through, Valorum got embroiled in scandal, and the Trade Federation blockades Naboo for its Senator's behind the scene role in them being taxed again. Oh, and Nute Gunray stuffed the Directorate full of Nemodian stooges.

Or to quoth Darth Sidious: "Everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen it."

And then Naboo actually happened, and nothing did. :p


Overall, pre-Naboo Trade Federation was a classic megacorp- it wasn't good people by any stretch of imagination, but it also wasn't Corporate McStoogeville as it would be after Palps got his stooge in Chief in a position of absolute power. It also was more diverse, though a lot of those holdings followed it into Separatism.

Hm. Thinking on it, the Trade Federations defense of their blockade after the fact must have been something like 'we were using the only avenue we had left to protest these unjustifible taxes against us, and now the Republic seeks to punish us for it!' And then Dooku joins in with them. No wonder Padme doesn't like him in AotC- he basically would have been saying the the Trade Federation was right in that the Republic had no authority to hold it accountable for war crimes against her world.
 
Wow, so the trade federation was basically honorverse's Rembrant trade union gone wrong exactly the way many people feared it would. Much better story that I actually got out of the movies.
 
Wow, so the trade federation was basically honorverse's Rembrant trade union gone wrong exactly the way many people feared it would. Much better story that I actually got out of the movies.

Essential Guide to Warfare basically has a smart writer going through and saying, 'Ok, how can I make this not only make sense, but be interesting...?'. Largely it works!
 
Essential Guide to Warfare basically has a smart writer going through and saying, 'Ok, how can I make this not only make sense, but be interesting...?'. Largely it works!

Yup, that sums up that book. Even had a few epic events of it's own. Like those late-war NR-IR campaigns that had only been alluded to prior to EGTW.
 
With the SSD Megador and all that? Those were great.

Yeah, expanded a few throwaway lines from Starfighters of Adumar and Hand of Thrawn into a series of knockout dragout campaigns with NR and IR going at it in conventional fleet battles, no proper super-weapons, just a good honest military campaign.
 
I've got a question regarding the Battle of Hoth. Was there ever an explanation as to why there weren't any TIE fighters present? You never see any flying around protecting the AT-ATs. I'd get if it was a budget issue or a narrative one, you can't have Rogue Squadron tripping up Walkers with TIEs around, but I get this feeling that somewhere in EU, there's a scene of General Veers berating Piett over not giving his troops sufficient air support especially considering that have infantry.
 
I've got a question regarding the Battle of Hoth. Was there ever an explanation as to why there weren't any TIE fighters present? You never see any flying around protecting the AT-ATs. I'd get if it was a budget issue or a narrative one, you can't have Rogue Squadron tripping up Walkers with TIEs around, but I get this feeling that somewhere in EU, there's a scene of General Veers berating Piett over not giving his troops sufficient air support especially considering that have infantry.

Planetary shield. You can't fly through it save maybe very close to the ground at the edge, which is why they had to walk over. Trying to fly TIEs under would be risky at best.

Also, cold weather is rough on fighters. They aren't designed for atmo first to begin with, before you get into icing over.
 
Planetary shield. You can't fly through it save maybe very close to the ground at the edge, which is why they had to walk over. Trying to fly TIEs under would be risky at best.

Also, cold weather is rough on fighters. They aren't designed for atmo first to begin with, before you get into icing over.
Rogue Squadron (the video game) shows the titular unit engaging TIEs in atmo shortly after the shields are brought down. I can presume the Empire has a grasp on materials science and engineering sufficient enough to make something that can withstand the rigors of dogfighting while not freezing over easily.
 
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