- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep - and this is an issue in both continuities now. I suppose you deal with it by having a group of younguns and the Skywalker/Solo kids are just one or two of them.
Star Wars EU Retrospect
- Thread starter Kylar
- Start date
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Apart from anything else, surely Luke should want to not look like he's practicing favouritism.
Z-Cosmonaut
Self-Requested Ban
I kind of like the Skywalker/Solo dynasty dominance that was seen in Legends. For me, it was rather poetic to know that the family split three or even four ways by the Legacy era, with the roles they took being pretty ironic. In particular, I really like the irony of how the Fel Dynasty ended up merging with the House of Solo (and Skywalkers) meaning that the Empire's modern ruler is a descendent of Vader.
- Location
- New Hampshire
I didn't mind the focus on the Solo kids. I hated Anakin being killed off and Jacen turning Sith. Fuck THAT with a chainsaw-lightsaber! 
- Location
- Singapore
The Jaina becoming Empress of the Fel Empire thing had me at headdesk.I didn't mind the focus on the Solo kids. I hated Anakin being killed off and Jacen turning Sith. Fuck THAT with a chainsaw-lightsaber!
tankdrop24
Tread First into Hell
- Location
- The Center of the Universe: Toronto, Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, the Empire getting 'redeemed' in any fashion kinda sucked, imo.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The entire Baron Fel Resurgent Empire was all kinds of bullshit.
- Location
- Georgia
I didn't mind the focus on the Solo kids. I hated Anakin being killed off and Jacen turning Sith. Fuck THAT with a chainsaw-lightsaber!
The spotlight was at least spread around more or less equally between the twins, Anakin, Tahiri, Zekk, Tenel Ka, and Lowbacca (I might be missing someone else) in the YJK.
I challenge you to name one notable thing that any Jedi in the New Order did between the end of Darksaber and up to the period of time where the NJO books begin. (not including the YJK and Junior Jedi Knights series)
- Location
- The Old Dominion
I will admit as far as empire characters go went I rather liked Gilad Pellaeon though its a pity they just couldn't keep the old man retired.
I have to admit Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr are pretty much the only new jedi order jedi I can easily recall period(Mara Jade doesn't count as she's married to Luke Skywalker).
I have to admit Corran Horn, Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr are pretty much the only new jedi order jedi I can easily recall period(Mara Jade doesn't count as she's married to Luke Skywalker).
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Yeah, the increasing amount of Imperial apologia in the latter days of the EU was... troubling. I can pin some of that shit on Traviss (like Daala coming back), but it was really Zhan who started it with the Hand of Thrawn duology (along with multiple books of Thrawn apologia, which is a separate but related thing).
They fought off an attack by Desann's Empire Reborn (not to be confused with Hethrir's Empire Reborn) with the help of Kyle Katarn.
Ultimately, the problem is that the books were rarely about people other than the protagonists of the films, so if there was a story about a Jedi doing something, it was almost always going to be Luke (and maybe Mara) doing it.
Yes, that was dumb. But so was the existence of the Sun Crusher in the first place. "It's more powerful than the Death Star and it's indestructible!" is some kindergartener logic. Jedi Academy Trilogy are not good books.
There's a reason why other writers only ever brought Kyp back to dunk on him.
Alert: Summarize! Summarize! Summarize!
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
summarize! summarize! summarize!
Please do summarize or link to the relevant timestamp when posting long Youtube videos in lieu of an argument. I have given you a staff notice under Rule 4.
Please do summarize or link to the relevant timestamp when posting long Youtube videos in lieu of an argument. I have given you a staff notice under Rule 4.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Oh yes I had forgotten about him... Which is especially jarring at least for me as I had played KOTOR 2 before my first written encounter with Kyp in I Jedi so I could recall that the exile well was exiled right out of the republic by the High Council and the exile had only used a experimental weapon of mass destruction as a last resort not as apart of a revenge rampage across the galaxy.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
Towards the end even Wedge was making jokes about being fifty year old flying a seventy year old starfighter or something like that.
The EU writers would always come back to the Main Characters from the first few years of the franchise doing a lot of the same stuff with the same toolkit and same mindset. And a lot of their moral indecision or political wrangling normally amounted to padding until finally towards the end of the book or series in question they go back to doing what they always do.
The NJO I will give points for trying different things and as much as the political plotlines all sucked and the Jedi dilemma about trying to stop the murder of trillions was really really fucking stupid at least it decided that the Galaxy was stagnant and needed to a lot of chars getting iced and new ones brought to the for and a different galactic situation. Sadly Dark Nest* decided to shit on all that and Legacy was just a mess.
*Dark Nest ending with Jedi Deathsquads seeding the forcibly downteched and disorganised killiks with a bio weapon to control their population is just...wow.
Star Wars has a (bad?) habit of centering its morality on the protagonists. Early on this was fine because Jedi had been doing their own thing for thousands of years and Luke and co clearly had a very personal journey with the Galactic war as a kind of background thing they sometimes affected but it was clear that this was a story about a small cast of misfits, exiles, rebels and adventurers trying to find their way. RotJ has the 'final' battle between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance be backdrop to Luke Skywalker confronting his father and deciding an act of mercy in the hope that the good in his sire would overcome the evil. And that was Fine.
The EU however kept this whilst also putting the Jedi and their associates center stage often semi ruling the galaxy or at least constantly butting heads with the people trying to do so and were again and again singled out as the most competent people and the only ones with good intentions and the capability of saving the day. Luke and Leia's personal shit increasingly came with a bodycount basically. Their bi-decade withdrawal from public life with all their toys normally just left the galaxy in the lurch, their failures as parents or teachers normally would result in a civil war or something sooner or later.
In the end the EU needed to Expand with its Universe, it never really consistently did so. Always falling back hard to a genre and story that really did not scale well.
The EU writers would always come back to the Main Characters from the first few years of the franchise doing a lot of the same stuff with the same toolkit and same mindset. And a lot of their moral indecision or political wrangling normally amounted to padding until finally towards the end of the book or series in question they go back to doing what they always do.
The NJO I will give points for trying different things and as much as the political plotlines all sucked and the Jedi dilemma about trying to stop the murder of trillions was really really fucking stupid at least it decided that the Galaxy was stagnant and needed to a lot of chars getting iced and new ones brought to the for and a different galactic situation. Sadly Dark Nest* decided to shit on all that and Legacy was just a mess.
*Dark Nest ending with Jedi Deathsquads seeding the forcibly downteched and disorganised killiks with a bio weapon to control their population is just...wow.
Star Wars has a (bad?) habit of centering its morality on the protagonists. Early on this was fine because Jedi had been doing their own thing for thousands of years and Luke and co clearly had a very personal journey with the Galactic war as a kind of background thing they sometimes affected but it was clear that this was a story about a small cast of misfits, exiles, rebels and adventurers trying to find their way. RotJ has the 'final' battle between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance be backdrop to Luke Skywalker confronting his father and deciding an act of mercy in the hope that the good in his sire would overcome the evil. And that was Fine.
The EU however kept this whilst also putting the Jedi and their associates center stage often semi ruling the galaxy or at least constantly butting heads with the people trying to do so and were again and again singled out as the most competent people and the only ones with good intentions and the capability of saving the day. Luke and Leia's personal shit increasingly came with a bodycount basically. Their bi-decade withdrawal from public life with all their toys normally just left the galaxy in the lurch, their failures as parents or teachers normally would result in a civil war or something sooner or later.
In the end the EU needed to Expand with its Universe, it never really consistently did so. Always falling back hard to a genre and story that really did not scale well.
Mortis Nuntius
Theon Killjoy
- Location
- United Kingdom
Yeah but the authors seemed to forget that given Kyp never seemed to struggle to be an asshole or mass murder civilians when not possessed. I think they decided they *liked* Kyp as the bad boy who constantly takes things way too far and gets away with it bar the odd slap on the wrist.
- Location
- Singapore
Borsk Fey'lya
He lives in a world of shifting alliances. Borsk does what Borsk needs to do, at any given moment, to benefit Borsk. And he's so jaded by that personal philosophy that he thinks everyone else plays by the same rules.Luke Skywalker Borsk Fey'lya was a male Bothan whose career spanned much of the...
starwars.fandom.com
Borsk Fey'lya going out of his way to prove Palpatine's New Order right did not help.
Congrats! You restored the Galactic Republic!...and promptly rolled back the laws to pre-Palpatine levels of corruption and incompetence.
EDIT: How Disney did it worse in nu-Canon is for another Thread.
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- Location
- The Old Dominion
Borsk Fey'lya
He lives in a world of shifting alliances. Borsk does what Borsk needs to do, at any given moment, to benefit Borsk. And he's so jaded by that personal philosophy that he thinks everyone else plays by the same rules.Luke Skywalker Borsk Fey'lya was a male Bothan whose career spanned much of the...
Borsk Fey'lya going out of his way to prove Palpatine's New Order right did not help.
Congrats! You restored the Galactic Republic!...and promptly rolled back the laws to pre-Palpatine levels of corruption and incompetence.
EDIT: How Disney did it worse in nu-Canon is for another Thread.
Its a wonder how Bosrk Fey'lya ever became head of state after his fiascos and failed power plays during the Thrawn Trilogy and the hand of Thrawn Duology.
Because he became an established EU character (and, critically, an established antagonist). So they kept brining him back in various books.
- Location
- Texas, US
The NJO pissed me off so much because the government is equal parts incompetent and malicious.
There's these idiots in charge who are going to get everyone killed and then there's Luke and the other Jedi who are not only trying to save lives, they're the only ones who can stand up to the Vong.
But we have to be nice and play nice with the most strawman politicians of all time because....uh....
I'm sure the trillions of people killed by the Vong due to the NR government's inaction and determined hamstringing of their greatest asset are very grateful Luke didn't subvert the democratic process.
There's these idiots in charge who are going to get everyone killed and then there's Luke and the other Jedi who are not only trying to save lives, they're the only ones who can stand up to the Vong.
But we have to be nice and play nice with the most strawman politicians of all time because....uh....
I'm sure the trillions of people killed by the Vong due to the NR government's inaction and determined hamstringing of their greatest asset are very grateful Luke didn't subvert the democratic process.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
True that is, it is nice to have established antagonists that aren't the usual dark side users or imperials... Though oh boy the Bothan concept of Ar'kari is admittedly disturbing but does seem to fit into the previous established cultural views the bothans were shown to have.
It might have been back in this thread, but I remember someone quoting an interview where one of the NJO authors said they needed a renegade Jedi causing trouble, and Kyp Durron was just sort of available so they slotted him into that role. You would think, after that first episode where he left Luke comatose and destroyed inhabited solar systems, that the other Jedi would dogpile him if he so much as raised his voice.
I could see Luke being on a years-long redemption kick after his success with Vader (and also the whole Dark Empire... thing) but Vader simplified things enormously by dying immediately after being "redeemed", and Luke didn't really seem to know what do with a repentant ex-Jedi after that step if they hung around.
Fey'lya and the whole thing with the Vong was enraging on several levels. Firstly that there's this new OCP literally invaded the galaxy and the greater New Republic simply couldn't be bothered to take it seriously, despite an overwhelming number of atrocities committed by the invaders. Considering how much shit the New Republic had been through by that point, you'd think they'd be pretty clear on what needs to happen when people start smashing moons into planets.
Secondly, from a Doylist perspective, I really hate the whole "politicians are short-sighted and stupid peaceniks and only the military has the clear-eyed resolve to recognize and deal with imminent threats so they should get to determine policy" thing that was a constant refrain. Shit like the New Republic trying to sell the Jedi to hostile extragalactic invaders to back up that idea.
I also don't think the Jedi should have rushed to take point on the Vong problem; the invaders are invisible to the Force and resistant to lightsabers. Maybe let the normies take point with flamethrowers and heavy weapons and, like, tanks? Churn out some new IG or HK model droids?
- Location
- New Hampshire
The NJO killed off Lusa, a legit good character from the Crystal Star and got brought back in the Young Jedi Knights and was even Better. That alone condemns the books in my eyes.