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Sport Tanks and the Shangri-La

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Spectrum said:
We~ll...the problem is the school's fielding frankly obsolete light tanks, so tactics should both reflect that and the coaching we may even want to take a stab at recognizing who would have the least experience with it.
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This isn't a permanent state of affairs I should note. I want to cover a fairly broad range of time, so it's safe to assume at some point you'll get some actually decent tanks- this campaign in specifically capping out at late WW2 and done wacky prototype designs.
Psyentific said:
I actually don't like the frenchwoman's focus on elan and independent action. I can't help but read that as, rather than making a true team of tanks all working together, covering flaws, etc. instead she's just going to teach us how to make "everyone go do your own thing" actually work which is imo contrary to the spirit of the game. And if you point out how "everyone doing their own thing" is actually kinda bad, she'll start shouting (en francais) about your insufficient elan.
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That's a really poor reading of how elan and independent action work, honestly speaking. Elan, as a concept, is all about energy and willpower; which then meshes with independent action to create the ability to work together without being in direct contact. This is really important, say, if you need to do things and you don't have radio contact (a reasonable fear) or have had something break your formation up and caused loss of communication. Anyone trying to make "every tank for themselves" work is going to quickly run into the problem that close orders tank formations can beat off lone wolves fairly easily.
 
7734 said:
That's a really poor reading of how elan and independent action work, honestly speaking. Elan, as a concept, is all about energy and willpower; which then meshes with independent action to create the ability to work together without being in direct contact. This is really important, say, if you need to do things and you don't have radio contact (a reasonable fear) or have had something break your formation up and caused loss of communication. Anyone trying to make "every tank for themselves" work is going to quickly run into the problem that close orders tank formations can beat off lone wolves fairly easily.
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In other words, very much like independent action in an actual war? Being able to act to support the main goal without needing to consult the main commander? Which happened to be one of the main advantage of the allies in WW2, since German forces needed the permission of the Commander in chief to do much, while allied forces could act much more freely in achieving their objectives.
 
Themarineguy said:
German forces needed the permission of the Commander in chief to do much, while allied forces could act much more freely in achieving their objectives.
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this is literally the opposite of Aufstragtaktik. i may be a mere amateur but even i know that you are wrong sirrah.

7734 said:
That's a really poor reading of how elan and independent action work, honestly speaking. Elan, as a concept, is all about energy and willpower; which then meshes with independent action to create the ability to work together without being in direct contact. This is really important, say, if you need to do things and you don't have radio contact (a reasonable fear) or have had something break your formation up and caused loss of communication. Anyone trying to make "every tank for themselves" work is going to quickly run into the problem that close orders tank formations can beat off lone wolves fairly easily.
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attempting to make up for material inferiority with energy and willpower (fighting spirit, you might say) only works in anime. it did not work for Imperial Japan and it will not work for us.
 
Psyentific said:
attempting to make up for material inferiority with energy and willpower (fighting spirit, you might say) only works in anime. it did not work for Imperial Japan and it will not work for us.
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Hypothesis:

The object of the game in healthy "elan" doctrine isn't to make up for material inferiority with energy and fighting spirit.

It's to make sure that a temporary or comparatively trivial material disadvantage doesn't easily snowball out of control due to the troops going "NOT AS PLANNED" or freaking out and retreating or freezing in place.

It doesn't exempt you from needing to care about material factors, but it can let you wring out a (sometimes admittedly costly) win where you might otherwise crack up and fail outright. Or let you perform well under circumstances where the enemy expects you to perform poorly, and thus find an exploitable weakness.
 
Psyentific said:
this is literally the opposite of Aufstragtaktik. i may be a mere amateur but even i know that you are wrong sirrah.
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Did not know that...... :oops: :oops: :oops:
Remembered bits about the D-Day landing which I guess was quite a bit different than normal, which was more on the lines of top brass, in this case Hitler sees one thing and those closer to the ground another, and as a result a sizable amount of the forces were made to sit and wait for a second invasion that never came while the first was in progress.......:facepalm:
 
Cerdan tried, but wasn't good enough for nationals, which is a slant on her skill in it's own right...But she can teach us french, meaning even if we suck we'll be bilingual. TEMPTING! More importantly, her strategy seems to be light and tactically strong, though it brings to mind a certain pop-comparison between Galic Berzerkers versus a Roman Legionnare...

Augest did okay, two years in rally, eight years after and some change. Probably pretty solid. Teamwork, Tactics, knowing your Tank well and being sneaky? Not...Entirely sure how this works out, but I suspect he's basically the Legionnare to Cerdan's Berzerker- strong when together, not so great outside the formation.

Dryagina who may or may not be an actual Dragon depending on how silly/anime inspired our author is feeling. (Sadly if what I've seen around here is any indication he's probably not pleased by the implication!) is the BEST TANKER! But uhh, can't help our grades, so that's a thing. Potential narrative shift away from fussing with the tank battles and towards keeping our grades up (Not unlike the trials of Ricky Eagle Buster Johnson the Third!)
Dragona here sounds like her thing is punching through terrain that she shouldn't be able to, fixing up after a quick scrap, and sucker-punching opponents so they can't fight back...Yeah that sounds like a winning strat if you can pull it off.

Dubois is wunderwaffen boy, but also apparently the most-well rounded teacher, which I guess means a plus to ALL Tankery skill areas, versus a specific strategic style. This is...Well, it's like if you can play it well that's cool, but the trouble here is by generalizing you tend to end up having to play off an opponent's weakness, versus leaning on your own strength, though the flipside is if you can get enough hits outside of someone expertise level, pound for pound you'll wear them down...I think.

Nicols sounds like he's about doing CHESS in Tankery battles. Want to use one tank to lure out the enemy while the others prepare to bombard them out of nowhere like your name is CREEEEEED!? This guy is your style (This is, of course, assuming I'm right that's how CREED operates.) Downsides being that if your predictions fail for whatever reason then your carefully laid plans may go awry...
 
Ok I gotta break this down...

Zaealix said:
Cerdan tried, but wasn't good enough for nationals, which is a slant on her skill in it's own right...But she can teach us french, meaning even if we suck we'll be bilingual. TEMPTING! More importantly, her strategy seems to be light and tactically strong, though it brings to mind a certain pop-comparison between Galic Berzerkers versus a Roman Legionnare...
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Read it a little closer, and find out what a pied-noir is. Since this isn't me doing a Serious Quest to Tell A Story, I'm not gonna make a detail like this critical, but an important thing to note is I never, ever leave throwaway description.

Zaealix said:
Augest did okay, two years in rally, eight years after and some change. Probably pretty solid. Teamwork, Tactics, knowing your Tank well and being sneaky? Not...Entirely sure how this works out, but I suspect he's basically the Legionnare to Cerdan's Berzerker- strong when together, not so great outside the formation.
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Tanks don't really fight in formation, and they haven't since the start of competitive tankery. That said, though, if you historically look at German tank use in real life they loved their radios to death- and August mirrors this as a polite nod of national hats.

Zaealix said:
Dragona here sounds like her thing is punching through terrain that she shouldn't be able to, fixing up after a quick scrap, and sucker-punching opponents so they can't fight back...Yeah that sounds like a winning strat if you can pull it off.
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Not a bad analysis. That said, Dryagina does not mean dragon. That's a false friend.

Zaealix said:
Nicols sounds like he's about doing CHESS in Tankery battles. Want to use one tank to lure out the enemy while the others prepare to bombard them out of nowhere like your name is CREEEEEED!? This guy is your style (This is, of course, assuming I'm right that's how CREED operates.) Downsides being that if your predictions fail for whatever reason then your carefully laid plans may go awry...
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This is very wrong, but not horribly wrong.
 
For those wondering a Pied-Noir are Frenchmen and other Europeans born in Algeria during French colonial rule Pied-Noir means Black Feet. The thing is many fled Algeria during the Algerian War when it was known Algeria was going to be independent during the war in the sixty's.

Unfortunately for many they where blamed for the war and collapse of the Fourth Republic along with a perceived notion that they had also exploited the local Muslim population combine that with a substantial Jewish population?
 
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[X] Plan: Art of War
-[X] Girl
-[X] Angelique Cerdan (FR)
-[X] August Becker (DE)
-[X] Cameron Nicols (CA)
 
[X] Plan: Art of War
-[X] Girl
-[X] Angelique Cerdan (FR)
-[X] August Becker (DE)
-[X] Cameron Nicols (CA)
 
[X] Plan: Art of War
-[X] Girl
-[X] Angelique Cerdan (FR)
-[X] August Becker (DE)
-[X] Cameron Nicols (CA)
 
[X] Plan: Art of War

I would have preferred a boy driver for the cross-dorm hijinks, but the coach layout is more pleasing in this plan.
(+1 vote for the viewpoint character to have protection from relationships. She should just make acerbic comments about other fools.)
 
votes re-called let's see what happens

edit: it's still a fucking tie guys c'mon I had faith in you. More extensions!
 
Great, tie broken. Votes called, will start writing tomorrow.



My plan was to grab the coach who would provide the best results with the direction the thread was going, then y'all went to loggerheads on this and both votes included one of the same coaches. Congrats, you are all now doomed to learn French. Hope you like running a multinational squadron, because you're not getting an inside line on anything and the used tank market is a capricious beast.
 
7734 said:
Great, tie broken. Votes called, will start writing tomorrow.



My plan was to grab the coach who would provide the best results with the direction the thread was going, then y'all went to loggerheads on this and both votes included one of the same coaches. Congrats, you are all now doomed to learn French. Hope you like running a multinational squadron, because you're not getting an inside line on anything and the used tank market is a capricious beast.
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Time to learn maneuver warfare. :)

What was the reason that we were supposed to pick 3 coaches and have which one decided for us, as opposed to just picking one?
 
Sentient Tree said:
Time to learn maneuver warfare. :)

What was the reason that we were supposed to pick 3 coaches and have which one decided for us, as opposed to just picking one?
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Because I expected the thread to start puzzling out their own preferred use doctrine, and then I could slap a coach on who wouldn't be smacking the players with a paper fan every ten minutes.
 
7734 said:
Congrats, you are all now doomed to learn French.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

7734 said:
Because I expected the thread to start puzzling out their own preferred use doctrine, and then I could slap a coach on who wouldn't be smacking the players with a paper fan every ten minutes.
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Oh. I thought it was going to be something like we get two coaches and our doctrine is basically cobbled together out of their specializations. Ah well, c'est la vie.
 
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