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Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: Iterations

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Crazycryodude said:
With the radio mast picking up all the nearby salvage beacons, and our giant industrial helicopter that was advertised as being useful for salvage operations, I think it's nearly mandatory that we get it back in operation and go scoop up all the salvage while it's still the early game and nobody else has gotten to it. Salvage operations will get us big piles of resources we can use to rapidly industrialize/develop/entrench/whatever, and it's time sensitive. The earlier we get back in business the greater the rewards will be.
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I agree, but the first priority is dealing with the crisis at hand. Then we can do salvage when our workers won't get shot by pirates. Although it's probably safe to do salvage on the island sooner than it will be to send out the skycrane. I'd like to look for cryopods as soon as reasonably possible.

Eldon said:
The thing with rushing the Skagway repairs is that all three buildings we need are very expensive. And we do not have the stockpiles to build one let alone all three. So pushing all of them is just going to end up with us being unable to do anything else for a good while. Better to ready our defenses and continue to build up overall while working on repairs slowly.
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With the three basic 3D printers going we'll have all three buildings done in 4 days.

Also keep in mind that they do a lot more than just let us repair the Skagway; the lab produces Build tech, the foundry lets us produce cannons for all our ships, ground emplacements, and artillery pieces as well as things that aren't cannons that require big pieces of metal, like proper warship hulls, and the electronics manufacturing line will enable our ability to manufacture high tech items in whatever quantity we need.

It's a strong build combination.
 
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JamesShazbond said:
Regarding that bit about synthesizing medical drugs, is that gated behind the Chemistry Lab or the Training Clinic?
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It's actually locked behind both the Chemistry Lab and Discover advances.

One observation I will make is that I am not always consistent about lending you advice you don't ask for. When thinking about technological research, I encourage you to choose to talk to particular experts to help you understand what is most likely to happen if you invest in each area.

I will give you a regular social action starting next update that doesn't count toward your three administrative actions.

Crazycryodude said:
Well obviously we can't let the pirates occupy one of our bases on our island, then they really have no reason to play nice anymore they've already got a harbor they own entirely. So it looks like we have to send some kind of forces. I don't want to risk a naval engagement though, the pirates have spent all their time since Plantefall getting really good at naval combat on Planet, facing them with an inferior force on their home turf with inexperienced crews has zero chance of going well in my opinion. If we get our little fleet-in-being sunk or even just reduced, especially before the Skagway's weapons come back online or we construct harbor defenses, then we're totally defenseless against attacks from the sea and have a bunch of pissed off pirates who know where we live. Not worth it.

So then it has to be a land action of some kind, either Metrion's plan or Abbadon's. I guess we can play the cavalry and go pull Yudikon's ass out of the fire, but why? He made it very clear he wants nothing to do with us, we want little to do with him, and seeing as his colony is a grand total of 50 people with limited ammunition and no way to make more there's no chance he can hold out in the long term even if through trickery and/or miracle he can win this specific battle against the pirates. Saving him once and then going back to status quo is just going to result in having to save him again when the pirates come back, at bare minimum we'd need to provide him a steady stream of war materiel and probably manpower as well to make him able to "protect himself."

If we're going to end up paying for the protection of the Relief Station either way, why fuck around with a silly client state that's harboring a grudge and just looking for an opportunity to break away again as soon as they can get in touch with some larger part of Struan's? Just re-annex the place and be done with it. We did build the whole damn thing after all, it's our colony he's just squatting in it, and now that his squatting is presenting a strategic weakness in the defenses of our island it's time to move back in and secure the place properly.
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To be fair, both Metrion and Ro have shown themselves to be highly effective naval commanders, whereas the pirates have performed poorly in both battles against them. You also have Köhler and Ro's large crew complement, meaning you could place a veteran commander and proven crews on each of your three fighting vessels. You'd still have a small reserve of at least 20 of Ro's sailors for base-side security duties.

TaliesinSkye said:
Aside from guards, we've got computer experts, and it must need computers to run. We could have them keep it locked down to authorized users. I'm sure LaCroix could think of some tricky traps for would-be thieves.
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I think that's overstating things. The Skycrane is vulnerable to sabotage, certainly, but probably not theft given how difficult it is to fly.
 
Crazycryodude said:
With the radio mast picking up all the nearby salvage beacons, and our giant industrial helicopter that was advertised as being useful for salvage operations, I think it's nearly mandatory that we get it back in operation and go scoop up all the salvage while it's still the early game and nobody else has gotten to it. Salvage operations will get us big piles of resources we can use to rapidly industrialize/develop/entrench/whatever, and it's time sensitive. The earlier we get back in business the greater the rewards will be.
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Here are the timelines under two scenarios:

Priority: Repair Skycrane
This turn:
Foundry
Electronics Line
Repair Chopper

Next Turn:
Electronics Lab
Chopper Salvage
Other

T+2:
Repair Skagway
Chopper Salvage


Priority: Repair Skagway
This turn:
Foundry
Electronics Line
Electronics Lab

Next Turn:
Repair Chopper
Repair Skagway


We would be trading one turn of salvage in exchange for getting the Skagway out a turn earlier and an extra turn of Electronics Lab results. I think that's well worth it.
 
Hmm, so. Before addressing the current crisis, I'm guessing due to the fact that this option is still open,

Trenacker said:
[ ] Start pitching individual shelters. Common habs are more efficient but privacy is a cornerstone of healthy living, both physically and mentally. [-3 Construction Supplies, +1 Health]
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that everybody is still living in communal living quarters? I can't imagine people are going to tolerate that forever. How long before the citizenry just up and try and make homes themselves? They could probably jerry-rig something approaching a hab with a lot of leftover sheet metal and some turns at the publically-available 3D printers. I mean, we have a massive stockpile of minerals just lying around, after all.

Not saying that we need to address that right now, of course. Just wanted to point it out.

As for the technology vote, I am quite convinced by @Crazycryodude's argument that we should probably be making some sociology research soon, because I don't think a society that predicates its existence on survival, resource exploitation, emergency manufacturing and military adventurism will survive forever. The people need a reason to keep on going on once our immediate resource/existential problems are solved, and we're very quickly reaching that point.

The question of the direction of the economy is also pretty easy. All storage is full except for Mineral Storage, which doesn't seem to even have an upper limit. So it's either Exploitation or Manufacturing.

...I am slightly apprehensive of expanding exploitation again, if only because it seems kind of redundant, like we're expanding just for the sake of expanding. Is there any reason we're choosing Extraction, instead of Manufacturing? Ehh... I guess I'll be a voice of dissent!

[] Discovery
[X] Choose
[X] Manufacturing

Edit: Big stupid me got distracted by the shiny blue color instead of the correct, purple one, and chose an avenue for science completely contrary to the one that I was arguing for. Whoops. >_<

Now for the third vote. Pragmatic analysis aside, I think it's important that we remember who we are. We are the U.N. Peacekeeping Forces, not some holier-than-thou warlord high on their own power. I think it's frankly insulting that certain members of our inner circle think we have the right to decide what polities live or die by selectively choosing who to save from piratical scum. Whatever our personal dislike of Dole, and whatever their obvious distaste for us, we chose to let them settle independently from us, and we should respect both their self-actualization and the spirit of our original mission by coming to their defense.

Like Abaddon says, this is for us as much as it is for them. Will we let cold, pragmatic concerns corrupt and pollute the ideals that we brought to this new planet? Tell me, are we shepherds, or are we bitches in a shepherd's coat?

[X] Agree with Vesper Abaddon. Mobilize the Peacekeeping Forces to assist U.N. Relief Station. Gun rovers and hoverbikes will spearhead. Enter the fight as allies of Struan's Asia-Pacific Trading Company.

I, um. I personally skipped the settlement administration vote for now, but I might revisit it later. I'm sure some people here have well-thought out plans and did the actual math, and I wouldn't want to disrupt them without having a good reason! So, that's it for now.
 
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[X] Extraction
[X] Choose
[X] Manufacturing
[X] Agree with Vesper Abaddon. Mobilize the Peacekeeping Forces to assist U.N. Relief Station. Gun rovers and hoverbikes will spearhead. Enter the fight as allies of Struan's Asia-Pacific Trading Company.

[X] Build an electronics lab to expand your knowledge of circuits and transistors. [-3 Construction Supplies, -1 Energy] (This will increase your Build output.)
[X] Replace the SkyCrane's rotors. Represents a significant commitment of mass. [-2 Survival Supplies]
[X] Build a dedicated arsenal with a small foundry that can cast small-caliber cannon. [-10 Construction Supplies, -10 Survival Supplies]
 
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RulerOfNothing said:
According to this threadmark the extractive sector is also supposed to yield energy, which we could use more of at the moment.
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Ah! That's probably a very good reason, actually. Switching!

[X] Choose
[X] Extraction
[X] Agree with Vesper Abaddon. Mobilize the Peacekeeping Forces to assist U.N. Relief Station. Gun rovers and hoverbikes will spearhead. Enter the fight as allies of Struan's Asia-Pacific Trading Company.

I'll definitely be pushing for more Explore technological research in the distant-ish future, if only if we can discover ways of (especially) mineral exploitation that can limit the environmental impact of our settlement. We brought with us the ideals of Old Earth; let's not also bring Old Earth's propensity for ruining things in the long term by seeking immediate, short-term gains.
 
[X] Build an electronics lab to expand your knowledge of circuits and transistors. [-3 Construction Supplies, -1 Energy] (This will increase your Build output.)
[X] Replace the SkyCrane's rotors. Represents a significant commitment of mass. [-2 Survival Supplies]
[X] Build a dedicated production line for electronics equipment. [-5 Construction Supplies, -5 Survival Supplies]

[X] Conquer
[X] Manufacturing
 
[X] Expand perimeter defenses. Build a bunker complex facing the island's eastern shore.
[X] Expand the Motor Pool with a dedicated workshop. [-2 Minerals, -1 Construction Supplies, +1 Manufacturing Economy] (Will allow you to customize 'Rovers with special mission packages.)
[X] Build a Training Clinic to prepare more citizens to become med-techs. [-2 Construction Supplies, -1 Energy] (This will increase your Discover output.)
[X] Choose
[X] Extraction
[X] Endorse Sathieu Metrion's plan. Attack the pirates by sea and occupy U.N. Relief Station. If the pirates are still in possession, evict them. If Dole Yudikon is still alive, arrest him.
 
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Why are we assuming that the attack on U.N. Relief Station is real? The only things we have are a lot of noise -- thunder -- and some smoke. We have no confirmation that the base is truly under attack. Let me be the advocatus diaboli and offer a different view:

The pirates scouted out U.N. Relief Station. Skinner made contact, was his charming self. Yudikon doesn't like us. He knows that he won't survive with 50 people and limited resources. There's discontent in the ranks. Some of his people begin to think that they made the wrong choice, going with him. There's no signal from his home base, no sign that his superior is alive. Along comes Skinner. They get talking. Skinner has noticed during his visit with us that we've got morals. Sooner or later we'll be a problem for him. Yudikon knows that he won't survive as he is. We're too strong to be conquered outright. So there's the obvious solution: pretend that U.N. Relief Station is attacked. Make some noise, make some smoke. We assured Skinner that we would come running to give help. From our previous behavior, Yudikon would assume that we'll come running too. We did give him a lot of supplies and didn't do anything to retake U.N. Relief Station. In his eyes, we're a pushover. He managed to steal from us once before. What better price than our base with all the goods and technology? The Pirates and Yudikon ally. Yudikon gets a good base and controls the whole island. Skinner gets a port, all the malcontents who do not agree with Yudikon's rise to power as slaves and the Holnists. When we go riding to the rescue, the forces of both Yudikon and the pirates ambush us and take over the weakly defended Warm Welcome.
 
[x] Use the 'Formers to drill and set another automated mine that will produce minerals on a regular basis. [-1 Construction Supplies, +2 Minerals ∞, -1 Planet]

[x] Build a mass pump that will source mass from an area close around and produce a constant supply. Seismic instability will almost certainly result. [-2 Construction Supplies, +4 Minerals ∞, -3 Planet]

[x] Build modular packages that can turn your 'Rovers into utility vehicles capable of performing basic agricultural and earthmoving tasks.

[x] Expand

[x] Water
 
Atri said:
Why are we assuming that the attack on U.N. Relief Station is real? The only things we have are a lot of noise -- thunder -- and some smoke. We have no confirmation that the base is truly under attack. Let me be the advocatus diaboli and offer a different view:

The pirates scouted out U.N. Relief Station. Skinner made contact, was his charming self. Yudikon doesn't like us. He knows that he won't survive with 50 people and limited resources. There's discontent in the ranks. Some of his people begin to think that they made the wrong choice, going with him. There's no signal from his home base, no sign that his superior is alive. Along comes Skinner. They get talking. Skinner has noticed during his visit with us that we've got morals. Sooner or later we'll be a problem for him. Yudikon knows that he won't survive as he is. We're too strong to be conquered outright. So there's the obvious solution: pretend that U.N. Relief Station is attacked. Make some noise, make some smoke. We assured Skinner that we would come running to give help. From our previous behavior, Yudikon would assume that we'll come running too. We did give him a lot of supplies and didn't do anything to retake U.N. Relief Station. In his eyes, we're a pushover. He managed to steal from us once before. What better price than our base with all the goods and technology? The Pirates and Yudikon ally. Yudikon gets a good base and controls the whole island. Skinner gets a port, all the malcontents who do not agree with Yudikon's rise to power as slaves and the Holnists. When we go riding to the rescue, the forces of both Yudikon and the pirates ambush us and take over the weakly defended Warm Welcome.
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Yeah I would not be remotely surprised if this is the case, Yudikon should not be able to put up really any fight at all with nothing more than 50 demoralized goons and some ancient LAWs. Firefights don't generally sound like regular rolling thunder, it's either a noisemaker hoping we're idiots who don't know that or the base getting shelled. I think Metrion's plan is still the play because if an armored column led by UN Marines (i.e. not just some of the best soldiers on Planet but some of the best soldiers on Earth) can get successfully ambushed by some corporate security guards and pirates then they deserve what they get. Sending the light units piloted by militia rushing on ahead with no infantry support trying to play cavalry, though? Yeah that's just begging to get all our mobile units blown to shit by some kind of trickery.

We should also keep the Foils warmed up and on alert just in case the bad guys try a sneaky naval assault as soon as they realize the bulk of our army has marched far enough away to not respond in time.
 
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An observation I'd like to make to the thread; currently the winning votes have us building a foundry before an electronics production line. The Foundry requires 10 survival supplies made on an electronics or complex production line, meaning that it will take a long time to build the supplies for with our current single complex workshop. If we build the electronics production line first it's much more efficient.
 
[X] Replace the SkyCrane's rotors. Represents a significant commitment of mass. [-2 Survival Supplies]
[X] Build a dedicated arsenal with a small foundry that can cast small-caliber cannon. [-10 Construction Supplies, -10 Survival Supplies]
[X] Build a dedicated production line for electronics equipment. [-5 Construction Supplies, -5 Survival Supplies]
[X] Choose
[X] Extraction
[X]Endorse Sathieu Metrion's plan. Attack the pirates by sea and occupy U.N. Relief Station. If the pirates are still in possession, evict them. If Dole Yudikon is still alive, arrest him.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
An observation I'd like to make to the thread; currently the winning votes have us building a foundry before an electronics production line. The Foundry requires 10 survival supplies made on an electronics or complex production line, meaning that it will take a long time to build the supplies for with our current single complex workshop. If we build the electronics production line first it's much more efficient.
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Yeah I don't see the point in building an electronics lab before we can produce electronics. Sure an extra bit of science output is nice to have but all the cool shit they come up with isn't worth anything more than the hard drive space the blueprint occupies if we can't actually build them.


Also unrelated, but the more I think about it the worse Abbadon's plan sounds on a purely tactical level even ignoring the strategy. Unsupported cavalry rushing off in a glorious charge attempting to be Big Damn Heroes ends in Custers far more often than it does Alexander the Greats. Our mobile units aren't even space dragoons who can dismount and fight like infantry if they get stuck in it, they're light scouting and harassment hoverbikes. Terrible idea to throw them into a unknown situation without any heavier support or infantry screens to hide behind.
 
Crazycryodude said:
Yeah I don't see the point in building an electronics lab before we can produce electronics. Sure an extra bit of science output is nice to have but all the cool shit they come up with isn't worth anything more than the hard drive space the blueprint occupies if we can't actually build them.


Also unrelated, but the more I think about it the worse Abbadon's plan sounds on a purely tactical level even ignoring the strategy. Unsupported cavalry rushing off in a glorious charge attempting to be Big Damn Heroes ends in Custers far more often than it does Alexander the Greats. Our mobile units aren't even space dragoons who can dismount and fight like infantry if they get stuck in it, they're light scouting and harassment hoverbikes. Terrible idea to throw them into a unknown situation without any heavier support or infantry screens to hide behind.
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May I sell you on Erkin's hit and run strike at range to hurt the pirates plan? It also has the benefit of leaving our soldiers home to defend the settlement, I'm worried about sending them out when the pirates could double back and hit our base before our soldiers could return.
 
Crazycryodude said:
Yeah I don't see the point in building an electronics lab before we can produce electronics. Sure an extra bit of science output is nice to have but all the cool shit they come up with isn't worth anything more than the hard drive space the blueprint occupies if we can't actually build them.


Also unrelated, but the more I think about it the worse Abbadon's plan sounds on a purely tactical level even ignoring the strategy. Unsupported cavalry rushing off in a glorious charge attempting to be Big Damn Heroes ends in Custers far more often than it does Alexander the Greats. Our mobile units aren't even space dragoons who can dismount and fight like infantry if they get stuck in it, they're light scouting and harassment hoverbikes. Terrible idea to throw them into a unknown situation without any heavier support or infantry screens to hide behind.
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I should assure you that you were voting for a general approach to the problem, not the operational or tactical specifics of execution. Abaddon's advice is best simplified as, "Go as allies, not as a third party to the conflict."
 
Crazycryodude said:
Yeah I don't see the point in building an electronics lab before we can produce electronics. Sure an extra bit of science output is nice to have but all the cool shit they come up with isn't worth anything more than the hard drive space the blueprint occupies if we can't actually build them.


Also unrelated, but the more I think about it the worse Abbadon's plan sounds on a purely tactical level even ignoring the strategy. Unsupported cavalry rushing off in a glorious charge attempting to be Big Damn Heroes ends in Custers far more often than it does Alexander the Greats. Our mobile units aren't even space dragoons who can dismount and fight like infantry if they get stuck in it, they're light scouting and harassment hoverbikes. Terrible idea to throw them into a unknown situation without any heavier support or infantry screens to hide behind.
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The electronics lab could give benefits for the assembly line. Wouldn't want to have to rebuild it so soon if we get something good.
 
So, we know that all of Aquatic Operations was woken up. Can we find out from the Datalinks how big the section was, and how much of it was either loyal to Svensgaard personally, or ideologically synpathetic to Holnist ideals?

Similarly, can we see how much Data Operations works for the Tomorrow Institute? It would be good to get a sense of how many people we're dealing with.
 
Plan Skagway Repair Package:
[X] Build an electronics lab to expand your knowledge of circuits and transistors. [-3 Construction Supplies, -1 Energy] (This will increase your Build output.)
[X] Build a dedicated arsenal with a small foundry that can cast small-caliber cannon. [-10 Construction Supplies, -10 Survival Supplies]
[X] Build a dedicated production line for electronics equipment. [-5 Construction Supplies, -5 Survival Supplies]

[X] Choose
[X] Extractive

[X] Decide in favor of Erkins. Engage the Nautilus Pirates in a naval battle. Send the Kungalooshi with three gun Foils.

Going to follow Talisiensky's plan, except I am taking Choose instead of conquer. (I think it is good to get all tech to lvl 1 at least and there is bound to be ethical choices up ahead with the wounded)
The other change is Extraction, this owing to the fact that both extraction and manufacturing will get a +2 from the mass refinery but Extraction is currently an uneven number.

Ps: loving the update and all the discussions so far!
 
Quick update!

Exceptionally busy week at work. Next update may be delayed as late as this coming weekend, but as it is end-capped by a holiday, you can expect at least two posts.

We will slow the timeline since you will probably be embarking on combat operations. Expect time to proceed on a scale of hours or half-days with each update rather than the weeks to which are accustomed.

To be most productive until then, we can discuss two topics of recent interest.

Population Types
Because of the in-narrative timescale, recruitment and recover of cryopods are your primary opportunities for increasing faction population. As you scale the tech tree, cloning and construction of robotic colonists will also become possible.

Heretofore, you have encountered only four of the ten population types: Talents, technicians, citizens, and overseers. Since I'm not sure how many of you have spent time with the Alpha Centauri 2 playbook that is at the heart of this project, I will transpose some of my notes here.

Talents are individuals with high educational and professional attainment. Many factions afford Talents special privileges and except from them exceptional contributions. Hydraulic engineer Sun Shao and Factor Dole Yudikon are Talents.

Librarians are a sub-population of Talents with special qualification to perform settlement administration and/or information management. Commissioner Pravin Lal is a Librarian.​
​
Specials, also called Augments or Perfects, possess significant genetic and cybernetic enhancement that take them far above the human mental and physical baseline. On Earth, they would be genius-level Olympians. No individuals with enhancements of this kind were included in the Unity crew compliment. Specials are exceptionally efficient workers and soldiers.​

Thinkers perform astounding feats of philosophical contemplation and critical analysis, usually aided by advanced mental techniques or psychotropic drugs. Like the Mentats of Dune, they receive intensive training to increase memory and perception to eidetic levels. Creating Thinkers requires the tech Intellectual Integrity. Thinkers improve doctrinal research rates and increase a faction's pool of Influence (social actions).

Scientists possess the training to conduct empirical research into natural and social phenomenon. Robotics expert Dr. Johann Anhaldt is a scientist.

Technicians are colonists with the education and qualification to perform highly skilled labor other than faction administration. This broad classification in particular covers most engineering disciplines (civil, chemical, mechanical, electrical, environmental, aerospace, and digital). Members of the military officer corps are also technicians. Master Malakai Ro and Annunciator Sathieu Metrion are Technicians.

Overseers are individuals who supervise laborers. They are a tempering influence in factions that with un-free workers (convicts, drones, robots) and typically occupy a precarious social position because of their role in maintaining social systems that are inherently unstable.

Citizens are those of ordinary capability. They are usually afforded the full spectrum of rights and privileges afforded by their faction. Cabo Primero Pereira, a non-commissioned officer, is a Citizen.

Drones are unskilled laborers living in a condition of exploitation. "Drone" is a pejorative term describing someone who has been formally subjugated. This group includes indentured servants, slaves, prisoners, and anyone who has been nerve-stapled or otherwise subjected to compliance techniques that reduces their cognitive and/or executive function.

Robots are fully artificial life forms designed to mimic human behavior.

What Happens Next
One of the joys of collaborative writing is bringing to life the scenes that my readers and voters want to experience. Following the dictum "don't ask, don't get," I invite you to share with me specific story outcomes that interest you.
  • What other factions are you most interested to encounter? The Lord's Conclave (Godwinson) has been requested.
  • What fate do you wish for Dole Yudikon?
  • Which member of the Peacekeeping Forces would you most like to learn more about?
  • What kinds of people would you like to discover among the stowaways?
  • What kinds of salvage would it most excite you to recover?
 
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I'd be interested in seeing how Nwabudike Morgan, the arch-capitalist, is adapting to starting from zero.

Honestly, it'd be cleanest if the pirates killed Yudikon. He's made it abundantly clear that he's not interested in working with us, Lal/us aren't the sort to just shoot him, and I doubt that Struan is going to just pick up his people and go. If I recall correctly, though, most of the people who left with him were Overseer types, something we don't need, and doesn't mesh at all with who Lal is. Would be a trial managing them.

What's Abbadon about? We've just got a deposed tinpot dictator bumming around the place, and he's the one advocating for us to hold to moral purity?

You made an offhand line about the Soviet Premier possibly being in one of the pods, and that'd honestly be funny as hell. More seriously, perhaps some sort of scientist or doctor; we're well stocked on asskickers right now, oddly enough.

Raw supplies might be more efficient, but honestly, the most interesting salvage is something like the Skagway; a questline that rewards an advanced prize at the end. If you do go with that, it should probably be a noncombat thing, so as to not step on the Skagway's toes or trivialize combat too early. One of those giant super Former things would be neat, or some kind of high grade 3D printer.
 
I'm a bit curious if alien ruins & artifacts are going to show up. I'd like to find some more sympathetic people & factions to talk with.
 
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