Salted Spires (A Cradle Quest)

1. Who says we wont have any free time? And yeah, theres an opportunity cost to any choice.
It might not be as extreme as having absolutely free time, but it will cost time, it will take the place of different (arguably better and more interesting) actions.

2. Yeah we can see more characters, sure. But we have to learn about the outside world and leave for it eventually. Unless we want to be stuck here in gold forever and force kitty to visit disaster. Seems likely to be via akura now.
Why? like actually why? setting aside that we already know some of the outside world (there are outcasts that come from there after all) and that are other ways to learn more of the outside world (like interacting with said outcasts).

Why are you so sure that we must leave at some point?

Why can't this quest be Lokahi life in the salted spires? I trust Kittyempress to make that interesting.

I really don't see a reason to just abandon anything Lokahi knows just because we must.

Not every story has to be about world-shaking events.

Even if we are required to do so, we have a long time to do so and can do so from a source, that is not a spoiled little shit princess that treats Lokahi like shit.

3. Are we really acting like lokahi doesnt have a noble's ego.
It not about ego, this girl insulted him, his family and his entire home. She insulted everything he likes and holds dear, and she continues to do so with every second breath. She treats him like dirt, despite the fact he helped her when he didn't have to.

She didn't even bother to remember his name.

This is not about pride, it about having the basic self-respect to say no to the one who just spat in your face.
 
Personally I'm fine giving up any reward from her if we don't swear, to be clear. I'm not expecting freebies for refusing.
 
[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."

We're like 5 a year isn't that big a deal, and we'll learn about the outside.
A year would be an enormous fraction of our life, and it would feel like an eternity of servitude we were signing up for. I don't expect we will get comparable rewards from politely telling her that we decline.
Someone else from the spires will serve her and get rewarded for it. I think I'd rather see that plot point from the outside.
 
[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."

Akura are world powers, she'll have all sorts of knowledge Semis can't even dream of
 
Also say goodbye for any free time, want to progress in our special parasite ring cycling? Well, we cant because Lokahi is busy being a man servant, want to learn soul smithing form his mom? We cant because he's busy being a man servant, want to hang out with Lokahi friends or do anything else? we cant because he's too busy being a manservant.
Compared to the rewards losing a year of cycling is nothing and I doubt it will even happen.

It is possible to get all the way from the beginning of cultivation to true gold with just 2 pills. Losing a year of cultivation is nothing compared to something like that.
 
[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."
I just think this is the most interesting path, think of the scripting knowledge we could acquire.

Plus I think the dynamic between a stranded Akura and the very talented Lokahi will be very interesting to see.
 
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It not about ego, this girl insulted him, his family and his entire home. She insulted everything he likes and holds dear, and she continues to do so with every second breath. She treats him like dirt, despite the fact he helped her when he didn't have to.

She didn't even bother to remember his name.

This is not about pride, it about having the basic self-respect to say no to the one who just spat in your face.
If someone spat in your face and offered you a billion dollars if you would say "Thank you" would you personally take that offer if you knew it to be genuine?

Because that is the level of wealth being talked about here.
 
ompared to the rewards losing a year of cycling is nothing and I doubt it will even happen.

It is possible to get all the way from the beginning of cultivation to true gold with just 2 pills. Losing a year of cultivation is nothing compared to something like that.
One, its not a year of cycling, it's a year of mastering this super special cycling technique or it's a year of hanging out with friends or a year of studying scripts or any other thing.

Two, those two pills may or may not be actually a thing but regardless of their existence (or lack their of) its unlikely those pills are going to be the payment given, sure we might gain some pills to help cultivation buy I doubt it'll be that good.

If nothing else then the fact that She is going to be consuming those kinds of pills as she attempts to get to gold.

If someone spat in your face and offered you a billion dollars if you would say "Thank you" would you personally take that offer if you knew it to be genuine?
Yes, because I have basic self respect and do not have a spiting fetish, Maybe my answer would be different if I was at the point of starving or any other point of desperation but I'm not and neither is Lokahi.

And as a point of order, the offer here is not "get a billion dollars" its "I will give you something good, something that I the sheltered princess who knows nothing of the area has deemed to be beyond whatever you barbarians have"

Very different things, I'm not saying that we wont get something good, but its not a billion dollars good and if you're going to sign us up to a year of being a servant to an abrasive girl that will continue to insult and degrade everything and everyone Lokahi likes and loves at least do so with the level of the reward actually in mind.

And not this fantasy.
 
And as a point of order, the offer here is not "get a billion dollars" its "I will give you something good, something that I the sheltered princess who knows nothing of the area has deemed to be beyond whatever you barbarians have"
She's right though:
More halfsilver and goldsteel than you'd seen in your entire life was used for sconces and doorhandles. Scripts that were beyond your wildest dreams were everywhere.

Outside of your family, the ring you now were wearing was the type of thing someone might commission for their child's Jade advancement, and even then it'd be a notably pricey gift, the type of thing that ring alone would not be disappointing when opening your gift box. Inside of your family they were slightly less valuable, but only because your family owned most of the halfsilver that had ever come to the Spires.

We got the potential to learn a whole lot of things that are not available to the Salted Spires. So if we do end up saying in the long run we can do a much to improve the place.
 
[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."

Yes, Gratitude is an arrogant little shit. Yes, we are giving up a lot of free time that could be spent cycling or learning scripting or having friends.

But honestly this is a pretty good deal.

1. We get some reward. I don't think we're getting showered in pills, but the dross of a mainline Akura is incredibly valuable to a backwater.
2. We ingratiate ourselves (if only as a servant) to a powerful family.

Why are you so sure that we must leave at some point?

Why can't this quest be Lokahi life in the salted spires? I trust Kittyempress to make that interesting.
It depends on where Kitty wants to end the quest, but frankly we are hard capped in this area. There's like four Truegolds here total. This place just quite frankly doesn't have the resources or aura density to make it to Underlord, let alone beyond that.

If you wanna become Truegold (or maybe Underlord) King of the Spires, that's totally fine. But I'd like Lokahi to go beyond that.
 
So where do you think we are? Eternal storm, but not on any maps? I think the Salted Spires might be on top of the slumbering Weeping Dragon during the period when all the old Monarchs died. We're in the eternal eye of his eternal storm. If so we're in trouble / the origins of a dreadgod cult when the dragon finally wakes up.
 
It is possible to get all the way from the beginning of cultivation to true gold with just 2 pills. Losing a year of cultivation is nothing compared to something like that.

I will at least confirm that this is not the case. If these pills were packed and ready for consumption by anyone, Gratitude leaving would be a matter of hours or days, not a year.

Which should be obvious. Jumping you to gold from one vote would be extremely boring, most of all.

2. Yeah we can see more characters, sure. But we have to learn about the outside world and leave for it eventually. Unless we want to be stuck here in gold forever and force kitty to visit disaster. Seems likely to be via akura now.
Why? like actually why? setting aside that we already know some of the outside world (there are outcasts that come from there after all) and that are other ways to learn more of the outside world (like interacting with said outcasts).

Why are you so sure that we must leave at some point?

Why can't this quest be Lokahi life in the salted spires? I trust Kittyempress to make that interesting
So where do you think we are? Eternal storm, but not on any maps? I think the Salted Spires might be on top of the slumbering Weeping Dragon during the period when all the old Monarchs died. We're in the eternal eye of his eternal storm. If so we're in trouble / the origins of a dreadgod cult when the dragon finally wakes up.

The mystery of the Spires and the Storm-Walls are things I very much intend to elaborate on. It's the closest thing I have to a main plot here. Those with Cradle series knowledge probably can make some good educated guesses on it!

I don't entirely intend to keep you trapped here forever, but where you are, why you are, and what is up with your home are all things that are important. And that might help you prepare for that exodus if you wanna take it.

You're not going to escape with Gratitude (because you'd both need to be lowgolds, and... she's not gonna wait for that.) But you might escape eventually. Maybe you could look her up then.
 
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Huh, I'm kind of surprised serve is winning. Well may as well try it, it's only a year and if we can derive even a fraction of the possible benefit from it then that's great.

[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."
 
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This is pretty interesting, because it's one of those things where the more meta we are or aren't as voters, the more the situation changes. On the most fundamental level: Gratitude is promising something specific, and the soul oath has to mean that it's something she's serious about. She believes she can and will be able to fulfill it, or else she believes Lōkahi will release her from the oath. Lōkahi knows this, so they know she has to mean it.

We also know from just... the last two updates... that no matter what else is or isn't true, Gratitude possesses treasures and potential resources that greatly surpass the Salted Spires' current powers, so Lōkahi has a good reason to believe that she can make good her promise, even without context we have.

What Lōkahi can't know and which readers of the canon books do is that... her story does seem to check out. She looks like an Akura, she's named like an Akura, her path appears to be in line with common Akura paths, and she name-dropped their Sage, Charity... which not only suggests 'Akura', but 'fairly high-up in the Akura head family'. Charity is her 'Aunt', a position Charity holds for a lot of Akura as an honorific, even when not literally true. Charity isn't that old, so it can't be too much before canon. This almost certainly isn't post-canon, because the reference to "my great-grandmother" as a champion against dragons only fits Akura Malice's and Seshethkunaaz the Dragon King's relation up through partway into canon.

There's still potential for her to be lying, which is to say that this could be a trick on the readers (presumably Watsonianly because she's doing an Akura impression on a third party for some reason), but I don't think she is.

The thing with Akura virtue names is that... people live up to them, even those who don't appear to at first. Mercy is easy. Pride is easy. Grace is easy. Malice has explicit in-story encyclopedia entries explaining her. But then you have the generally-chill Fury, which doesn't make sense until you see him cut loose against someone he actually doesn't like. Charity seems standoffish and cold, but she genuinely does care for and give to the family and clan with selfless charity. Even Harmony wants a type of harmony, just a self-centered harmony of unquestioned hierarchy.

Lōkahi thus doesn't know, but we do, that Gratitude is probably going to show real gratitude, perhaps in a slightly warped way.

We can make other more or less meta analyses: what if this is supposed to be the start of a protagonist cheat skill? if the question is up for a vote in a KittyEmpress quest, there has to be up and downsides both ways, right? what will other scavengers among the Spires think of this deal? how far will said scavengers want to push things to get at Gratitude's valuables? if she was betrayed, is someone with the 'betrayers' likely to show up and maybe offer us a comparable/better deal with different context?

I think it's definitely worth considering her offer and maybe even taking it up, but my personal reaction here is basically that I picture Lōkahi reacting more based on what he knows and expects and what he thinks his family will default to, as opposed to an impulsive or dispassionately rational take. Ironically, both of those could see Lōkahi accepting Gratitude's offer, but I'm instead going to vote for:

[x] B. "No, I will not make that oath. I won't serve you."

Wouldn't it be fascinating to meet back up with Mom and Tama and have them say "what the hell why did you say no"?
 
You're not going to escape with Gratitude (because you'd both need to be lowgolds, and... she's not gonna wait for that.) But you might escape eventually. Maybe you could look her up then.
Oh wow, we voted pretty ungreedily here, huh?

At best we're going to get a few items from the cloudship after a year of work when most other vote options would have resulted in Lokahi's family looting most of the ship?

Oh well, easy come, easy go. At least we saved a (jerk's) life.

I am assuming Gratitude is going to take her cloudship with her when she leaves. If she can't open a wide enough hole for that and instead leaves it, and everything else she can't carry, to "her loyal servant" Lokahi, that's a pretty amazing get.
 
[x] A. "I swear to serve you for a year, or until you reach the stage of Gold."

The thing with Akura virtue names is that... people live up to them, even those who don't appear to at first.

Lōkahi thus doesn't know, but we do, that Gratitude is probably going to show real gratitude, perhaps in a slightly warped way.

Yeah, the name is a pretty big hint that she repays her debts in spades in the long run.

Also if we're the only other person on the ship for a year we'll get plenty of opportunities to explore it and mine it for secrets. I want a chance to examine all the scripts.

It seems like the ship has intelligent defenses from its reaction when we started repairing it. Staying on Gratitude's good side should keep the ship friendly. If we'd allowed her to die I bet the ship would be actively hostile.

If we hadn't repaired it at all then between the lightning strikes, unstable scripts, and race to be the first to gut it for parts I doubt there'd be much left in the way of scripting or other complex resources to take advantage of.

I wonder what sort of advanced facilities and training tools we might be given access to. Not even as rewards but just so that we can be a more effective magic butler.
 
Yeah, this keeps the ship intact. Hopefully, she can't get it fixed and leaves it to us. Even if she does take it and most of the stuff, there's a scripting opportunity here. Our own scripting might progress enormously by studying the ship, and we can share it with our family to pay back some of the resources we've been taking.
 
I will at least confirm that this is not the case. If these pills were packed and ready for consumption by anyone, Gratitude leaving would be a matter of hours or days, not a year.

Which should be obvious. Jumping you to gold from one vote would be extremely boring, most of all.





The mystery of the Spires and the Storm-Walls are things I very much intend to elaborate on. It's the closest thing I have to a main plot here. Those with Cradle series knowledge probably can make some good educated guesses on it!

I don't entirely intend to keep you trapped here forever, but where you are, why you are, and what is up with your home are all things that are important. And that might help you prepare for that exodus if you wanna take it.

You're not going to escape with Gratitude (because you'd both need to be lowgolds, and... she's not gonna wait for that.) But you might escape eventually. Maybe you could look her up then.
You mean it isn't a secret realm made by an eccentric Monarch named Nakul? ;)
 
I think no matter how we vote here a lot of people are going to be mad at Lōkahi for repairing the barrier formation and denying them the rich salvage they would have had otherwise.
They don't know that Charity would kill everyone on the spires about it if she could get past the Storm Walls, or that she might actually be able to via Sage teleportation.

[X] B. "No, I will not make that oath. I won't serve you."
 
I think no matter how we vote here a lot of people are going to be mad at Lōkahi for repairing the barrier formation and denying them the rich salvage they would have had otherwise.

Yeah they're likely to be furious about us costing them the biggest windfall to hit the Spires in generations.

If they find out. Which we should try to make sure they don't. We can pretend Gratitude fixed it herself.

Aisha probably knows to keep the knowledge in the family. And if the family wants to keep it a secret from the other clans that limits their ability to punish us.

Taking the deal gives us a lot of leverage here because it gives us access to the ship. Every clan will be desperate for the knowledge and secrets it offers and the advantages it can give them over their rivals. They're likely to be eager to deal with us for whatever we're able and willing to share, especially if Gratitude views dealing with them directly as beneath her station. Or we might bias her towards making deals with our family and friends when she needs external resources, instead of going to the other clans.

With the leverage we're too valuable to punish or retaliate against. Without it we're relatively exposed.
 
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Wouldn't it be fascinating to meet back up with Mom and Tama and have them say "what the hell why did you say no"?

Tama sighs as he hears you explain what happened, "Oh to be young and naive." His gaze that looked at you was one of pity, "Let me say that you will one day grow to regret this moment. And you will wonder why you refused it. It will live in your memory forever more." His wisdom was more pointed than usual, more intentional. He wasn't leaving a puzzle for you to find out, he was admonishing you outright.

You paused, hesitating as he said that, "Do... do you really think her rewards would have been that great?" You felt shook to your Core as he was spoke.

"Oh, the gifts could have been lovely. But, my young brother, too young and innocent to understand..." He crouched down, a hand on your shoulder as he looked into your eyes, "One day, what you shall understand is that..." A long pause, and a sigh, as he looked away from your eyes, "a beautiful woman bossing you around is a lovely problem to have."

Suddenly a kick landed on his face, as Lani landed from above, "What the hell are you teaching a kid?!?" Her face was red from embarrassment.
 
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