- Location
- barking
aka all wars cause holy shit did the skaven fight everyone
Revolt-Revolution, Yes-Yes! (CK2 Skaven Post-Revolution Quest)
- Thread starter The Laurent
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] [Seconds] Allow them. Baruk can appoint someone to vote for him while he's gone, as can anyone.
-[X] From now on, any candidate to Councillor must designate a Secretary of their choice prior to the election. Each Councillor's Secretary will help them with their duties and take their place in the Council if they're absent or otherwise temporarily unable to attend.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first.
-[X] From now on, any candidate to Councillor must designate a Secretary of their choice prior to the election. Each Councillor's Secretary will help them with their duties and take their place in the Council if they're absent or otherwise temporarily unable to attend.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first.
Chittertongue seems like he's not a bad choice when things are calmed down and diplomacy is a more common thing, but Andratse is really helpful in a crisis.
At least his schemes aren't aimed at backstabbing people, just trying to get the government to go in a more diplomatic direction than we've had so far (ignoring that "so far" is only a couple months).
We know, but does he?
I think that's a bit too complicated, maybe it should be voting for each councilor and a "vice councilor" or something to assist them and fill in if the councilor is unavailable, and possibly head the council seat's eventual bureaucracy so the councilors can focus on making the right decisions or something.
Secretaries is better than the vice councilor thing I was thinking of, and if they're important to vote for then the prospective councilor can run with their secretary on the ballot too.
Honestly one could make an argument we'd be more justified than Rome with "defensive" wars taking a lot of territory.
Last edited:
- Location
- barking
this makes him a threat cause when we need untiy cause we are fighting the whole darklands he wants division
- Location
- My Plotting Chamber
I have a bit of trouble reconciling the presented images of Chittertounge as both a malicious liar and schemer, but also too naive and idealistic for offensive wars. Potential resolutions include 'he thinks he is justified because the alternative would be worse for everyone.' and 'he acts this way due to bad information'. Both of which can be worked with.
Which doesn't make unnecessary division a non-problem, but it means that hypothetical scheming isn't a lethal dagger to the back with total disregard for anything but personal advancement.
We are no more fighting the whole darklands than Rome was fighting the whole world.
Which doesn't make unnecessary division a non-problem, but it means that hypothetical scheming isn't a lethal dagger to the back with total disregard for anything but personal advancement.
Last edited:
As the update says, there are some who question the fairness of a direct appointing. However, If you think my idea is overcomplicating things, I'll instead propose that, as @GuestLurker suggested, all Councillor candidates should run for election alongside a Secretary who would help them in their Council duties and substitute them whenever they're absent. This would both be relatively simple, appease most of the dissenters and allow the Councillors to choose someone they trust (avoiding Skaven style murder-promotion attempts).
EDIT:
[X] [Seconds] Allow them. Baruk can appoint someone to vote for him while he's gone, as can anyone.
-[X] From now on, any candidate to Councillor must designate a Secretary of their choice prior to the election. Each Councillor's Secretary will help them with their duties and take their place in the Council if they're absent or otherwise temporarily unable to attend.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like this is a good idea, but way beyond the scope of this vote. I don't think we have a formal set of rules involving candidate selection and voting at all...like, I don't think we have set terms of office yet, never mind rules for voting, so this is very much putting the cart before the horse.
Last edited:
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Chittertongue like
Very much just wants people to thank him and think he's useful, but feels alienated from skaven society and finds comfort with people of other species. This is probably not something that Andratse could understand easily. It is, however, extremely important to note. Chittertongue's need to understand and know about people is a good thing, and it is undeniably useful. If Andratse and he has a chance to get to know one another then I think they'd make useful allies of one another.
He's also not entirely wrong about how Andratse's move from Broodguard to Council leader looks. I don't doubt that his drunken assertions are related to how he actually feels. Similarly, I don't doubt that the Broodguard has a history. They were part of the last regime, and they were part of the machine that kept the Broodmothers being what they are. Andratse's current self is directly shaped by that.
We saw her flashback. She was trained to be a skaven supremacist. The fact that she isn't is a miracle, and part of why I was happy she won.
Very much just wants people to thank him and think he's useful, but feels alienated from skaven society and finds comfort with people of other species. This is probably not something that Andratse could understand easily. It is, however, extremely important to note. Chittertongue's need to understand and know about people is a good thing, and it is undeniably useful. If Andratse and he has a chance to get to know one another then I think they'd make useful allies of one another.
He's also not entirely wrong about how Andratse's move from Broodguard to Council leader looks. I don't doubt that his drunken assertions are related to how he actually feels. Similarly, I don't doubt that the Broodguard has a history. They were part of the last regime, and they were part of the machine that kept the Broodmothers being what they are. Andratse's current self is directly shaped by that.
We saw her flashback. She was trained to be a skaven supremacist. The fact that she isn't is a miracle, and part of why I was happy she won.
- Location
- barking
I would think all skaven are raised that way its part of their whole thing
- Pronouns
- He/Him
True, but clanrats get it more than slaverats do, and Andratse was a clanrat (of a very specific and relatively elite sort), while Chittertongue was a slaverat, or at least that's what seems to have been the case. The higher status they were, the more they got the lesson reinforced.
Archivist Grim
Totally not AI
- Location
- The abyss
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
[X] [Seconds] Allow them. Baruk can appoint someone to vote for him while he's gone, as can anyone.
-[X] From now on, any candidate to Councillor must designate a Secretary of their choice prior to the election. Each Councillor's Secretary will help them with their duties and take their place in the Council if they're absent or otherwise temporarily unable to attend.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first
Do hope we can avoid conflict with Skitter, perfer not having divison at this time, with everything in a sorry state
-[X] From now on, any candidate to Councillor must designate a Secretary of their choice prior to the election. Each Councillor's Secretary will help them with their duties and take their place in the Council if they're absent or otherwise temporarily unable to attend.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first
Do hope we can avoid conflict with Skitter, perfer not having divison at this time, with everything in a sorry state
There is literally nothing in the framing of the scene to remotely support him lying here.
If he had any control when drunk, he wouldn't be openly discussing him plans. This is a obvious scene of him drunk beyond his capacity to hold it together.
The scene is a obvious twist of typical skaven dynamics. Where the underling plans to overthrown the overlord only like... he has reasonable reasons for doing so, and his 'evil goals' are 'let's be friends'. It's taking a typical story-beat and twisting it. There isn't even any reason to lie about that to humans, because like.... this broodmother is a distant thing for them. If the framing was about using that as a half-truth, we'd have a scene of them reacting in horror showing how his lies worked. Instead, it's a bunch of drunk people going 'right on mate' to another drunk.
Last edited:
Honestly I think Chittertongue will be a great leader. He's going to be our best shot at a positive Skaven face to deal with the Boarder Prices, merchants, Pigbarter, and Cathay.
He's just not the leader we need RIGHT NOW. Once we are able to defend ourselves and are dealing with frieldlyish nations, he's nearly ideal.
I want him to unite various factions behind him and pull off his GLORIOUS plan to overthrough Adratse via democratic vote...
And for Adratse to go "Congradulations" and get back to work.
His plan is basically diplomacy and democracy so far. Maybe if he rolls 13 and does something particuarly skaven that may change, but so far his plan is to work within the system.
He's just not the leader we need RIGHT NOW. Once we are able to defend ourselves and are dealing with frieldlyish nations, he's nearly ideal.
I want him to unite various factions behind him and pull off his GLORIOUS plan to overthrough Adratse via democratic vote...
And for Adratse to go "Congradulations" and get back to work.
His plan is basically diplomacy and democracy so far. Maybe if he rolls 13 and does something particuarly skaven that may change, but so far his plan is to work within the system.
Last edited:
- Location
- barking
I disagee on him being a good leader a good diplomat sure but his arrogant (till proven other wise I will use his char sheet as a basis for him) and that likely wont end well (also his sheet says he wanted sought to achieve great status so not sure I trust everything he says even without him being a schemer)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's not the vibe I got from either him or the scene, but I do agree that it's definitely not clear that he's lying, I was just stating my own opinion that he was capable of doing so even while drunk and struck me as the sort to say that kind of thing to run down a political opponent regardless of its truth. Like, to me, Chittertongue seems like the kind of guy who says whatever he thinks will provoke the response he's looking for without even considering whether it's true or not.
And yeah, it's not the best argument for the audience...but the phrasing was calculated to still appeal to them and he was drunk, plus there's little other bad stuff to say about Andratse, so if he wants to badmouth her his options are limited.
Jane Dough
(She/Her)
- Location
- Occupied Cascadia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So long as chittertail remains within the legitimate democratic process with his scheming, I see no reason to really worry.
Even if he *does* underestimate the enemies we have, our system should allow us to correct that should the need arise
Even if he *does* underestimate the enemies we have, our system should allow us to correct that should the need arise
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We should likewise keep to the bounds of the democratic process...but that's not quite the same thing as 'not worrying about it', IMO. Chittertongue wouldn't be the worst possible replacement for Andratse, but he wouldn't be the best either and establishing a precedent that accusing political opponents of malfeasance in unverifiable ways is a good way to get elected is a bad precedent to set.
If he wins, he wins and Andratse supports him, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and keep him from winning.
Futher Mechanical Tidbits: Food
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I was randomly out of nowhere inspired actually to finish creating mechanics for your food situation.
It will not be long and complicated, so here it is. You have two categories, both of which sorta already exist but I'm just formalizing it all.
The second category is "Stores" or I used "Surplus" but I'll change it, and that just represents how much you have right at this moment if all sources of food were cut off, or at least severely curtailed: how long could you keep going?
The first category goes like... this.
STARVING (-5, and beyond)
Substantial deficit (-4)
Moderate deficit (-3)
Modest Deficit (-2)
Slight deficit (-1)
SUBSISTENCE (0)
Slight surplus (+1)
Modest Surplus (+2)
Moderate Surplus (+3)
Solid Surplus (+4)
ABUNDANCE (+5, beyond)
Essentially the bigger the surplus, the more you add to "Stores" and if it's negative slowly the more you take from "Stores." Surplus is 100% relative, though starving is starving.
But for instance, at the moment everyone is eating about as much, relative to their species needs, as peasants in a lean but not disastrous year, the kind of year that tugs at the body but you know you can survive as long as you don't chain too many of them together.
This isn't great, but compared to how almost all of them were eating before, it's led to them gaining weight, putting on strength/etc.
(The exception is Ogres, who are not eating as well as they want, but are eating better than that because who's going to stop them?)
If you got up to a Moderate or Solid Surplus and decided, as you probably should, that everyone should eat better... maybe not great, but at least well enough to equal a peasant on a pretty okay year... or even on a good year, if you're ambitious, then that will knock down your Surplus by a number of points, more depending on how much more you do.
Yet at the same time, other than preparing for disaster and siege, surplus is for using, one way or another: Exporting food is something that you will not be doing under basically any circumstances short of "You're at the center of a large empire and so the 'exporting' is just moving it from one part of the Empire to the other" or other such things.
So grow your crops, account for population growth... survive. Don't starve.
You can do it!
Also, don't worry about variety and quality of food yet... that's for later. At the moment and for quite a while just getting everyone food of at least some value and some variety will be more than enough.
It will not be long and complicated, so here it is. You have two categories, both of which sorta already exist but I'm just formalizing it all.
The second category is "Stores" or I used "Surplus" but I'll change it, and that just represents how much you have right at this moment if all sources of food were cut off, or at least severely curtailed: how long could you keep going?
The first category goes like... this.
STARVING (-5, and beyond)
Substantial deficit (-4)
Moderate deficit (-3)
Modest Deficit (-2)
Slight deficit (-1)
SUBSISTENCE (0)
Slight surplus (+1)
Modest Surplus (+2)
Moderate Surplus (+3)
Solid Surplus (+4)
ABUNDANCE (+5, beyond)
Essentially the bigger the surplus, the more you add to "Stores" and if it's negative slowly the more you take from "Stores." Surplus is 100% relative, though starving is starving.
But for instance, at the moment everyone is eating about as much, relative to their species needs, as peasants in a lean but not disastrous year, the kind of year that tugs at the body but you know you can survive as long as you don't chain too many of them together.
This isn't great, but compared to how almost all of them were eating before, it's led to them gaining weight, putting on strength/etc.
(The exception is Ogres, who are not eating as well as they want, but are eating better than that because who's going to stop them?)
If you got up to a Moderate or Solid Surplus and decided, as you probably should, that everyone should eat better... maybe not great, but at least well enough to equal a peasant on a pretty okay year... or even on a good year, if you're ambitious, then that will knock down your Surplus by a number of points, more depending on how much more you do.
Yet at the same time, other than preparing for disaster and siege, surplus is for using, one way or another: Exporting food is something that you will not be doing under basically any circumstances short of "You're at the center of a large empire and so the 'exporting' is just moving it from one part of the Empire to the other" or other such things.
So grow your crops, account for population growth... survive. Don't starve.
You can do it!
Also, don't worry about variety and quality of food yet... that's for later. At the moment and for quite a while just getting everyone food of at least some value and some variety will be more than enough.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cool. So given we're listed at Subsistence level, well, it could be much worse. Hopefully with some good rolls on the mushroom farming, we can start building up that surplus.
LuxemburgLover69
There are more things between Heaven and Earth...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Seconds] Allow them. Baruk can appoint someone to vote for him while he's gone, as can anyone.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first.
[X] [Meta] Stewardship, Learning, Intrigue, update first.
What happens if Adratse loses a future election and the new Council Leader is from a race without a tail? Do we still get to keep the Twist of the Tail option?
I do not think we should worry about the opposition either, but at the same time I think we need a more formal party system or something that allows groups of like-minded individuals to exist under the light of day as it were. One of the greater dangers to the republic right now is what we do not know how to manage a peaceful transition of power. That has always been the great weakness of early republicanism, or indeed latter day nascent democracies. We the players I think should want Chittertongue to eventually win and do do so peacefully