Except the EU court only hold jurisdiction over those who have willingly signed up to it and its laws are made with input from those countries.
The Mandate of Heaven does neither of those things. So yes it is a dictatorship.
Return of the Stellar Empress [Worm/Xainxia]
- Thread starter Darkphoenixlady
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Except the EU court only hold jurisdiction over those who have willingly signed up to it and its laws are made with input from those countries.
The Mandate of Heaven does neither of those things. So yes it is a dictatorship.
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The Mandate of Heaven is pretty much the deus ex machina in Xianxia novels. It is the set of rules Heaven lays out to everyone under the heavens, weather those be mortal or immortal. It encapsulates luck, fate, destiny, and whatever else you want to call it.
It is also the reason for the Heavenly Tribulation during certain breakthroughs, as a test / punishment for those with the guts to dare try to ascend the Heavens.
It sounds more that Taylor managed to ascend high enough to be able to declare what the Mandate of Heaven actually says for everyone below her (which at this point is pretty much literally everyone)
And the main difference between Taylor's Mandate and the common Mandate in Xanxia novels is that Taylor's is specifically designed to keep the higher heavens from excessively interfering with the lower heavens (which includes the whole slavery and cultivation ingredient stuff), and that she is willing to inform everyone what exactly the rules say, instead of having the people figure it out from who gets a Tribulation on their heads or not.
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No, a dictatorship is not an appeals court. The heavens don't dictate the law in lower realms, they can only be called on to adjudicate it. That's the difference.
A Dictator makes the rules, a court judges them.
There's also the fact of her title. She is an Empress. She rules by divine fiat, just be glad she doesn't make laws.
This
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- Neptune
Have you missed the part where the culture clash has been explained?
What were the laws like before she made her changes?
And I mean like, what were they explicitly?
And I mean like, what were they explicitly?
So say someone is convicted of a crime, how would they appeal and which laws would take precedence? The laws of the country? Or the Mandate of Heaven? What if the crime is not covered by the Mandate of Heaven?
As the Empress has personally changed the Mandate of Heavens to suite her ideals.
As the Empress has personally changed the Mandate of Heavens to suite her ideals.
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Considering general Xianxia rulings?
You get a Tribulation for every major breakthrough above the average at your level of existence.
You are not allowed to improve the situation you were given by birth (And breaking this rule is pretty much the plot of 90% of xianxia novels)
And the higher heavens can do whatever they want in the lower heavens. (And this one is mostly kept at bay because they are not the only inhabitant of higher heavens hanging around the lower heavens)
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Most of the restrictions on what immortals can do when they descend to a lower realm didn't exist, and were basically either go against your local heaven, or get permission from your local heaven to descend (grease the right palms). Along with a few explicit highly abuseable rights for descending (such as being the guiding immortal of a sect, or personal students).
Tribulation Lightning wasn't just a test for cultivators to ensure that their body cultivation matched their spiritual cultivation. Instead any functionary could submit the right paperwork and hit a cultivator with lightning.
They can't appeal the conviction, only the law. If the appeal is upheld, then the judge that did the sentencing is tried by tribulation lightning, and a functionary is assigned to monitor the law.
In the heavenly system, when the heavens monitor something, they're supposed to send a notification to the people affected (in this case the law makers) but different heavens may be more or less corrupt, and thus may or may not send the notification. But that's a different set of laws. There's also paperwork that can be filled out to delay the notification until after the monitoring period is over and the Heavens have come to a decision.
Okay so if a person is convicted of a crime in a country that has laws against the Mandate of Heaven, they can appeal and get the judge that convicted them struck by a tribulation? Then what? Does the Mandate require the opposing law be struck down?
Do you just pray for the appeal?
By giving a person the ability to appeal to a tribunal beyond a countries legal system, it a violation of the sovereignty of that country and the tribulation would be a direct attack on a member of the judiciary of that country, which is even worse.
This would cause ww3.
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Remember I said compromises? The person is still convicted, they then have to rely on the rest of that Heaven's court acting appropriately, and then their local legal system acting appropriately too. Same as the EU court or UN can rule that a law is illegal, but the country doesn't have to listen.
If the Heavens is really upset about the law, they might send a messenger to personally inform the law makers of Heavens decision. But that doesn't help the convict unless the local legal system does something.
But it still subjects the judge to a tribulation which is dangerous.
But I guess apart from that if there is no enforcement the Mandate is pointless apart from pissing countries off when the get a stern letter every time they go against it.
The point I am trying to make is by its very nature as a set of overarching laws that applies to everyone regardless of what country they are in the Mandate of Heaven is breaching countries sovereignty.
The fact that it is being put in place by an American….
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You are missing the point. She's not an American. And she doesn't care if it pisses them off. It's like saying that the British, Russian, French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Roman, etc. Empires cared that they were breaching the sovereignty of the countries they folded into their Empires.
She's not American. She is so far above mortals that they can't even see her shadow.
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She doesn't remember being American. She barely remembers being a slave and cultivation cauldron. The main reason she made those laws is because of what happened to her children.
She speaks English has set up base in America and has recognised family in America. To other countries she is American. While she might not care what other countries say or do America does. The moment they realise what she plans any sane government would basically tell her to stop or leave. If she refuses it would end up her vs the government and all her friends caught in the middle.
By your own words she would be a foriegn power conquering the Earth and applying her own brand of morality to it. If she continues she makes an enemy of the entire world.
A fun power fantasy for a bit but not a great protagonist. Also one who Dragon and the PRT would opppose with everything they have. So make no mistake she, by your own words, is a foreign power who is here to rule the Earth. All hail the Empress.
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Who wants to tell him about Sovereign Citizens?
sovereign Citizens only exist in the eye of nutjobs, its not actually a legal thing.
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Again, no, she's not here to rule earth. She's above the heavens, so until the first heaven has been created, and people ascend to it, the will be no response to the formations and rituals. The first person to climb to the 888th heaven and take the throne will be able to make changes to most of the mandate of heaven.
Not me.
A perspective on the Mandate of Heaven
She's an Empress by way of being personally powerful enough to enforce her rules, which are approximately "Don't be evil" and "Don't make me come over there".
Yes, she's trampling all over the sovereignty of the mortal authorities, but the Empress' revised Mandate of Heaven explicitly limits her ability to do so compared to what came before.
Anyone who attempts to object will be explicitly informed of the rules once, and then, if they choose to ignore them, have them enforced.
So far, nobody has decided to test if the Empress has the will and the power to enforce her rules after being informed of them.
Notably, the rules don't require that she does anything if she doesn't feel like it, otherwise, she'd be flitting across the planet, hitting slavers with cease and desist notices.
Arguably, the Empress' return is similar in nature to 1632, or a ship girl being summoned into the less savoury parts of her country's history and enforcing modern rule of law by being more dangerous than anyone else, the difference being that theoretically nobody in modern times disagrees with the "don't be evil" part and her power is such that she's a 300-pound gorilla when compared to an entire nation, not just an army.
The only thing the UN could (publically) claim to find objectional is sovereignty, and who's going to tell the 300-pound gorilla where to sit?
The countries that object in Worm will complain that their sovereign right to be evil is being interfered with, and will be chastised accordingly.
I expect that much of the UN will cheer, because there is a 300-pound gorilla enforcing similar rules that they've lacked the power to do so in the past.
Yes, she's trampling all over the sovereignty of the mortal authorities, but the Empress' revised Mandate of Heaven explicitly limits her ability to do so compared to what came before.
Anyone who attempts to object will be explicitly informed of the rules once, and then, if they choose to ignore them, have them enforced.
So far, nobody has decided to test if the Empress has the will and the power to enforce her rules after being informed of them.
Notably, the rules don't require that she does anything if she doesn't feel like it, otherwise, she'd be flitting across the planet, hitting slavers with cease and desist notices.
Arguably, the Empress' return is similar in nature to 1632, or a ship girl being summoned into the less savoury parts of her country's history and enforcing modern rule of law by being more dangerous than anyone else, the difference being that theoretically nobody in modern times disagrees with the "don't be evil" part and her power is such that she's a 300-pound gorilla when compared to an entire nation, not just an army.
The only thing the UN could (publically) claim to find objectional is sovereignty, and who's going to tell the 300-pound gorilla where to sit?
The countries that object in Worm will complain that their sovereign right to be evil is being interfered with, and will be chastised accordingly.
I expect that much of the UN will cheer, because there is a 300-pound gorilla enforcing similar rules that they've lacked the power to do so in the past.
I think you underestimate how important sovereignty is to the UN. Also just cause you do not agree with the laws of another country does not make them "Evil". Just because you agree with her does not change what she is doing, and what she is doing would essentially be declaring war on any country she disagrees with.
The argument is a moot point however isnt it? The mandate of heaven does not apply untill she has made the heavens which she has said will take hundreds of years right? Or am I misremembering. Though if she declares her intent to do so and nobody calls her on it, the story officially needs a Mary Sue tag
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You might want to reread the first few chapters. She's also said how long it will take to make the heavens habitable. On top of that, readers have seen the Nascent heavens.
None of this is new. I just threadmarked that bit because it is relevant in the next chapter.
Satisfaction
brought it back.
It doesn't matter.
Metaphorically, her deciding to actively enforce the Mandate of Heaven would be like the some dictatorship deciding to establish an army base right outside of some dude's house for the sole purpose of keeping him from doing... whatever. Wildly overkill, but tf can he do about it? If there isn't some institution or powerful person he can appeal to, he's going to, what? Rambo a military base? Rambo isn't real.
They could throw the entire world's nuclear arsenal at her while she slept and it might not even wake her up. Their feelings and laws only matter insofar she decides to humor them, and fortunately for them she's decided to humor them quite a bit. But if she decides to say there's lines, there's nothing humanity can do about it.
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Hell, if they push, she might decide to turn Mars or Venus into a micro black hole to prove her point.
Wow I musta been sleepy when I read those early chapters. Didn't notice what she said.
There is no way way anyone even remotely associated with the government would be talking to her. They would be creating an exclusion zone not, letting her influence vital government capes.
But can't be bothered with this anymore so unwatching.
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There's two points.
The first is - Either they accept what she said at face value, at which point, where exactly would the exclusion zone be? As they can't exactly evacuate Earth Bet.
The second is - Why would the government believe her claims? Since January she has killed four people in a gang. Retreated to a house on a hill, erected a sword over the PRT, and bought tea. That's it. Oh, and there's rumors of a verifiable way to get power without needing to be a parahuman.
You, as a reader, have more information about what's going on than the authorities on Earth Bet. The only person in a position of authority that knows a comparable amount is Dragon. And she's limited in what she is able to say to anyone.