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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
If we're sent to Gaul, we're in the absolute safest assignment available to us -- it's our fellow Romans, not Gauls, who are known for sending assassins. (Gauls would be more likely to send a screaming horde). We really shouldn't need a bodyguard at that point. Theo (aka our bard) would be better, to give us eyes and ears among the common soldiery, to secure the loyalty of our troops, and to act as an envoy or advisor when making contact with 'friendly' Gallic tribes.
At this point I feel a (very) slight preference for staying in Italian and fighting alongside Sertorius, but I really don't know. Also, considering when the vote opens, I'll probably be mid-REM cycle, so I doubt I'll be posting a plan this round.
- Location
- USA
Taking all of this into account, alongside the recent developments and butterflies that have happened due to this quest. I think choosing Legio VI commanded by Sertorius is our best when it comes to the risk to reward ratio in these choices.
If we start off by simply assuming that a victory by Sulla and the Optimates is not simply inevitable at this point like it was in history, and that it is equally likely that Marius could win the Civil War, then I think choosing the 6th Legion is a great choice when all things are balanced in that regard. As was mentioned above, I don't think we'll be able to gain much glory, loot, or prestige from serving in Gaul. The commander we are serving under does not look like he will go on a conquest spree like Caesar did, and our actions seem to be mainly defensive and diplomatic, something that while commendable will probably not earn us much acclaim in Rome.
Furthermore I think due to the choices we've made, that of being a public Optimate under Scaevola while being a closet populares, that Sertorius is the best commander we could hope for here. He and our father seem to have a history together, and his initial blurb seems to indicate that he is quick friend and fast ally, meaning that in the event the Marians win, we likely won't suffer a bad end under him, while if Sulla wins by being the second in command of the Legion, we can likely use the angle mentioned above to still survive by taking the credit for things.
The rewards as mentioned from this choice, are obvious, in that defeating or pacifying the Samnites will allow us to gain far more in terms of loot and prestige in the eyes of the Roman public, while at the same time not directly involving ourselves in the struggle between Marius and Sulla, and thus not put ourselves at too great a risk. Neither side could accuse us of cowardice or treachery if we defeated the Samnites. While doing so would sure up the power base of the Marians in Rome, we could always simply plead the fact that we were simply doing what we thought would be best for Rome by defeating an enemy that was known to raid and ravage their cities and the countryside.
The ancillary benefits are also beneficial to us. As was mentioned above, since we are campaigning in Italia rather than further abroad we could likely bring our servant Tercerus with us, someone who will be no doubt useful when it comes to aiding us on the campaign trail as well as in the aspects of intrigue as well. Furthermore, as we are still in Italia we will likely still have better access to our information network in Rome even while on campaign. Finally, however I think that serving under Sertorius specifically would also affect our Tribune choice as well in that it opens new doors. While Caesonius is a good choice for any of the other potential Legions we could join, due to the fact that we could rely on him for his stewardship and administrative skills while also being sure that he will not outshine us militarily, I think that under Sertorius we could pick a more risky option such as Rufus. As others have mentioned the main thing choosing Rufus as our Second in Command Tribune would offer are both connections and ties with him as well as his powerful legal skills later down the line. That on the other hand is balanced out by the fact that he would not help us much in our military duties. In any of the other campaigns such as in Greece or in Gaul, that negative could be a massive detriment to us. Serving under Sertorius however, a competent General and Administrator both, I think that we will be more able to rely on Sertorius' competence to make sure that we don't have to deal with as many problems that could come with choosing Rufus as a Tribune. Finally, I think serving under Sertorius will potentially allow us to have the best relationship with our commander, seeing as we already have a tie with him through our father's history with him, and our personal political beliefs align more closely with him. And this relationship will likely help safeguard us while on campaign and will possibly allow us more autonomy, and potentially a mentor-student relationship with him.
With all of that in mind here are the potential plans I've thought up for the options this turn.
[] Plan Flexible
-[] Legio VI
-[] Tercerus
-[] Rufus
[] Plan Safe
-[] Legio III
-[] Theo
-[] Caesonius
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Then there was the time Caesar decided to go beat up on some Germans. Which of course meant bridging the Rhine.
"Did... did you just build a major piece of infrastructure in ten days?"
As you allude to...
If Marius wins, as long as we haven't done anything explicitly backstabby towards him we should be fine. Given how junior we are and that we'd be working for him directly or semi-directly, the reasonable default assumption is that we're helpful.
Unless Marius has somehow become immortal, we can almost certainly outlast and outwait him. He may have enough juice left in him to take down Sulla, maybe even Sulla and Mithridates, but he's like seventy years old. He's very likely to die in the next ten years, well before our ambitions really come into conflict with him.
The biggest problem is making sure we don't get so associated with Marius that it paints a target on our backs in post-Marian Rome. This problem will be greatly mitigated but not gone if Marius defeats Sulla; it will also be mitigated if we can arrange for Pompey to fall somehow.
Trouble is, looting conquered provinces is still going to be more lucrative for a legion than just sitting around collecting the Senate's paycheck. We wouldn't just need to arrange for central payment of the legions (which would cost a lot of money, by the way), we'd need to establish complete Senate control over the legions' finances, even when that meant literally snatching looted treasure out of the legions' hands and redistributing it.
Tough.
I mean, we MIGHT earn an offensive victory or two against the Gauls if the guy commanding our legion is up for it.
But don't bet on this campaign turning into an early conquest of Gaul, no matter how hard we crit. There's too much else going on, and our junior rank makes it hard for us to control events.
Alexander could conquer provinces at our age (or thereabouts), but Alexander was king of Macedon, not the second-in-command of a single legion.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
been thinking of the prophecy that was quoted to me by our most apt Questmaster not too long ago and I've been thinking, the mention of the sun, you guys what do you think it might be? yeah, I am not too willing to pay heed to it, but a part of me is wondering to whom it was speaking, to our character or to the players.
We have a conception of the sun very differenttly from the Romans, for us, speaking of a sun, might be easier to associate to Louis XIV, all things go around me.... but the romans didn't had heliocentrism, so something something Apollo? or alternately something blinding, this isn't a crack at Caesar's baldness?
We have a conception of the sun very differenttly from the Romans, for us, speaking of a sun, might be easier to associate to Louis XIV, all things go around me.... but the romans didn't had heliocentrism, so something something Apollo? or alternately something blinding, this isn't a crack at Caesar's baldness?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Given that the reference to the sun is juxtaposed with a clear reference to the First Triumvirate (Caesar, Crassus, Pompey) that historically would be 'due' to come into being a little less than thirty years from now, I'm pretty sure "the sun" is in fact Caesar.
- Location
- nowhere
cicero is most likely the sun as the sun was in Apollo's domain and inquest his blessing in on oratory/law. IMO the triumvirate becoming one alludes to Caesar's becoming dictator for life which leads to the Republic being turned into the empire. so the only way to keep the republic alive is to join forces with cicero to make the much needed reforms to the law. and millitary
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- Location
- USA
Careful with old prophecies, mind. The soothsayers are never wrong...just the interpretations by the customers.
I would lean towards Gaul and Italia. Honest Roman work, and less chance of ticking off the wrong political beehive too early. Establish credentials for now, anyway.
@Telamon, really enjoying the quest so far. Keep it up!
I would lean towards Gaul and Italia. Honest Roman work, and less chance of ticking off the wrong political beehive too early. Establish credentials for now, anyway.
@Telamon, really enjoying the quest so far. Keep it up!
- Pronouns
- Male
I'm leaning torwads Gaul we could be safe but also gain a smudge of glory by expanding the border a hundred miles north or so.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
I do agree, if it is our intent to reform the Republic and avoid the Empire. I personalty favor this option and while I mentioned that prophecies aren;t something to think too deeply about, specially these sort that you never know if they are self fulfilling.
As for plans, Gaul is safe, but it is safe, no chance for loot or glory... not without a self serving general with a twist for the creative interpretation of orders, and I doubt we will be serving under such a man, so.... Italy and the Samnites, it is a less prestigious option than going east, but that latter option depends a lot on how the Sulla/Marius throw down goes. I think Marius is going to win, I mean he should be dead by now but it is by all reports hale and hearty. that is incredibly suspicious and shows our knowledge is mostly meaningless, short term. Marius was a great general, perhaps the best of his age but I'd rather not throw our lot with him.
- Location
- Central Europe
I was leaning towards Gaul, but I think the arguments made in favor of Italia have won me over.
While we wait for the moratorium to pass:
I'm no historian, but I just rewatched some of the old Historia Civilis videos. There are a few on the Cursus Honorum and the Senate. Especially the video on the Roman Legion seems like useful infodump for the next few updates.
Also long-long term we should look into snatching away that Pontifex Maximus position away from Caesar.
While we wait for the moratorium to pass:
I'm no historian, but I just rewatched some of the old Historia Civilis videos. There are a few on the Cursus Honorum and the Senate. Especially the video on the Roman Legion seems like useful infodump for the next few updates.
Also long-long term we should look into snatching away that Pontifex Maximus position away from Caesar.
I'd argue that our middle term goal should be building a somewhat stable alliance of like-minded men who also want to maintain the republic and prevent it turning into a dictatorship because if our long term goal is preventing exactly that from happening we'd have issues doing it ourselves if we don't want to forcibly take over which would rather defeat the point. We have a good starting point with Cicero, the question of course is who else might be an option.
- Location
- Central Europe
Oh, I agree that saving the republic has higher priority. But, if manage to stop Caesar from becoming Pontifex his rise to dominance will be much much harder.
And you are sure that is something we want to happen? Caesar is in my opinion far from the worst of the bunch when it comes to potential "dictators"/generals and I honestly would much rather have him on our side than most of others.
- Location
- Central Europe
Yes, I'm sure I don't want any long-term dictators. Caesar can be a powerful senator/consul/general, but my aim is to not let Pompey and Caesar be Sulla & Marius 2.0.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Yes, because the worse the dictators are, the more backlash they will generate. the smart ones and able ones will be very hard to dislodge and then you'd have to contend with their imitators.
If you have a disastrous one or two? then you can cast them in the same light as the roman kings.
- Location
- Texas
Voting is open.
- Location
- Classified
[X] Plan Flexible
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus
- Location
- Minnesota
[X] Plan Flexible
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Flexible
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus
-[X] Legio VI
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Rufus