Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that Posidonius of Rhodes should be in Rome about now. He was originally a Stoic but broke with them and turned towards Plato and Aristotle. He had a somewhat idealised view of the Republic as a stabilising force for good in the world, which ties in nicely with Scaevola's example as an administrator and governor. Cicero was a fan too.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Pronouns
- Male
I propose starting out as a simple elected tribune as we might need our patrons favors for other things after all Rome is a vipers pit.
- Location
- Texas
Just a mistype on my part. Thanks for catching it.
Most certainly. It's a valid and extant school of the period.
- Location
- Texas
Well, the moratorium is for 12 hours, and I posted the update at 11:00 yesterday night, so by my estimate, you've got about three more hours before the vote opens.
I know people want to get a move on and take a position (I do too), but I think we should at least consider taking another year to further our education and try to build up connections and clients. Expand our social network, set up a client base separate to Scaevola, take a few cases, let Proserpina expand operations, see how wider politics play out, and maybe look into improving our Stewardship and Administration.
There are risks, of course. Something could happen to Scaevola, which would be a fairly large set back, even if we aren't caught up in it. We've made an enemy of Pompey, too, though I think anyone who believes being in the legions will prevent Kid Butcher from striking at us is being naive. Pompey really doesn't care about the social mores of the Roman upper class.
I don't think taking another year would prevent us from achieving election in suo anno, either. I'm pretty sure that Patrician dispensation only applied to curule office. Certainly Caesar ran for Quaestor at thirty rather than twenty-eight.
Anyway, not certain if I'm going to draw up a plan for this. (Being tribune is an education of a different sort, we'd be slightly insulated from events in Rome, there's the possibility of awards such as the Civic Crown, etc.) I just think we should have the discussion.
There are risks, of course. Something could happen to Scaevola, which would be a fairly large set back, even if we aren't caught up in it. We've made an enemy of Pompey, too, though I think anyone who believes being in the legions will prevent Kid Butcher from striking at us is being naive. Pompey really doesn't care about the social mores of the Roman upper class.
I don't think taking another year would prevent us from achieving election in suo anno, either. I'm pretty sure that Patrician dispensation only applied to curule office. Certainly Caesar ran for Quaestor at thirty rather than twenty-eight.
Anyway, not certain if I'm going to draw up a plan for this. (Being tribune is an education of a different sort, we'd be slightly insulated from events in Rome, there's the possibility of awards such as the Civic Crown, etc.) I just think we should have the discussion.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Being elected at your age is presdigious. Caesar was probably was taking a stance by not taking Patrician dispansion and waiting for his age like phlebs.
Except he took it when standing for Praetor and Consul, i.e. curule office.
@Telamon, did you see this? Before the vote opens, could you revise the description of 'Eclectic' to clarify?
For the Philosophy vote, I'm torn between Eclecticism and Peripateticism.
However, I was reading a bit more on the wiki, and I was struck by this:
I tend to prefer @Godwinson's original plan, so I'll probably cast my vote for:
[] Plan Golden Mean
Philosophy
[] Eclecticism
Cursus Honorum
[] Broad-Striped Tribune
Sub Rosa
[] The Aristocracy
However, I was reading a bit more on the wiki, and I was struck by this:
This makes it sound as those the Peripatetics were largely reactive as a school, that their focus was on promoting Aristotle rather than developing Aristotelian ideas. Oddly, it sounds like the Eclectics of the Middle Academy were the ones actually relying on Aristotle to develop new ideas. Per the wiki:
Just as I argued against Stoicism by pointing out that this is the era of Cato (rather than that of Marcus Aurelius), I'm inclined to argue against Peripateticism by pointing out that this is the era of Andronicus and not of Averroes or Aquinas. The followers of Aristotle at this time seems to be mostly focused on preserving Aristotle's works and defending his legacy, than about expanding Aristotle's theories or developing that legacy.
I tend to prefer @Godwinson's original plan, so I'll probably cast my vote for:
[] Plan Golden Mean
Philosophy
[] Eclecticism
Cursus Honorum
[] Broad-Striped Tribune
Sub Rosa
[] The Aristocracy
- Location
- Texas
I've revised it somewhat, but any larger changes would be unfair to those who have already read the post and haven't seen the discussion more.
As well, Voting is open.
- Location
- Italia
Plan "Golden Mean"
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Great point! Posidonius of Rhodes was known as the greatest polymath of the age (according to the wiki, "He came near to mastering all the knowledge of his time"!), and was a pioneer in pretty much every field. While he's often classified as a Stoic, he rejected the Stoic view of emotion and embraced a view closer to that of Plato and Aristotle, making him more of an Eclectic. When Cicero goes on his tour of Greece and Asia Minor, he will study with Posidonius during his stay in Rhodes.
EDIT: actually, it appears that Posidonus is in Rome, as the ambassador for Rhodes. That would be an incredibly useful connection to pick up if we're able to....
I disagree -- a simple military tribune is more often an equites, so it would be notable if we declined to run as a patrician. Also, the broad-striped tribune is second-in-command of a legion, so if the commander is ever indisposed, we will be able to gain direct command experience even from a young age.
Huh. According to the wiki, Caesar was born in 100 BC and "was elected Quaestor for the year 69 BC", making him... 31 years of age? That might be due to the 10-year requirement for tribune -- the wiki says that Caesar was elected tribune "on his return to Rome" but that his intended return in 78 BC was delayed when his ship was attacked and he was taken captive by pirates. That captivity might have delayed him (and his political ambitions) by a year.
On the other hand, he was elected curule aedile in 65 BC (age: 35 years old), served as praetor in 62 BC (age: 38 years old), and sought election as consul for the year 59 BC -- each of these is one year below the usual minimum age, but one year older than the minimum age for patricians. All that to say: I don't think Julius Caesar ascended the cursus honorum 'in his year' at all.
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[X] Plan Golden Mean
Philosophy
-[X] Eclecticism
Cursus Honorum
-[X] Broad-Striped Tribune
Sub Rosa
-[X] The Aristocracy
Reasoning: 'Broad-Striped Tribune' because it fits us perfectly (and thanks to Scaevola, we're pretty much guaranteed to get the position), 'Aristocracy' because it is the intrigues of Rome that is the true danger, and we'll want a network of informants to keep us up-to-date while the Marius-Sulla conflict reaches a boil.
For Philosophy, I love Aristotle, but the best philosophers of this age (Antiochus of Ascalan, Posidonus of Rhodes, Cicero himself) are all eclectics, and for good reason. The Peripatetic school is too rigidly focused on defending Aristotle's body of work, rather than developing Aristotle's ideas in response to the challenge of other schools of thought. The Eclectic philosophy officially belongs to the 'Middle Platonist' school, but seeks to integrate insights from almost every philosophy available in Rome at this time, and does a better job of embodying both Plato's dialectic and Aristotle's empiricism.
Philosophy
-[X] Eclecticism
Cursus Honorum
-[X] Broad-Striped Tribune
Sub Rosa
-[X] The Aristocracy
Reasoning: 'Broad-Striped Tribune' because it fits us perfectly (and thanks to Scaevola, we're pretty much guaranteed to get the position), 'Aristocracy' because it is the intrigues of Rome that is the true danger, and we'll want a network of informants to keep us up-to-date while the Marius-Sulla conflict reaches a boil.
For Philosophy, I love Aristotle, but the best philosophers of this age (Antiochus of Ascalan, Posidonus of Rhodes, Cicero himself) are all eclectics, and for good reason. The Peripatetic school is too rigidly focused on defending Aristotle's body of work, rather than developing Aristotle's ideas in response to the challenge of other schools of thought. The Eclectic philosophy officially belongs to the 'Middle Platonist' school, but seeks to integrate insights from almost every philosophy available in Rome at this time, and does a better job of embodying both Plato's dialectic and Aristotle's empiricism.
Claytonimor
WE WILL TAKE JERUSALEM
- Location
- Loudon, TN
[X] Plan Golden Mean
This sound neato.
This sound neato.
That's because the ages listed in the cursus are the ages you run at, rather than serve at, IIRC. (I.E. Caesar ran for consul when he was forty in 60 BC but didn't assume office until 59BC.)
Zeroth Jupi
Sporadic Writer and Haver of Ideas
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Plan Golden Mean
- Location
- Central Europe
[x] Plan Golden Mean
Eclecticism or Peripateticism...
TBH I can't see a relevant difference for our character.
We are a young and upcoming Roman politician that dabbles in Greek philosophy. Now we choose to further our understanding of Stoicism and a mix of Aristotle's & Plato's teachings, period.
Personally, I feel that the choice - which of the above schools we choose to follow - should come at a later date. Then again, right now, I can't think of a situation in which that distinction is ever gonna be much more than flavour text.
Eclecticism or Peripateticism...
TBH I can't see a relevant difference for our character.
We are a young and upcoming Roman politician that dabbles in Greek philosophy. Now we choose to further our understanding of Stoicism and a mix of Aristotle's & Plato's teachings, period.
Personally, I feel that the choice - which of the above schools we choose to follow - should come at a later date. Then again, right now, I can't think of a situation in which that distinction is ever gonna be much more than flavour text.
- Location
- Massholistan
[X] Plan Golden Mean
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
An interesting quest, I'll join here and I'll vote the bandwagon, mostly because it is interesting. And while I like the Stoics, the arguments for Eclecticism seem reasonable to me.
And, remember guys, we might need to arrange an accident for a certain gaius
[x] Plan Golden Mean
-[x] Eclecticism
-[x] Broad-Striped Tribune
-[x] The Aristocracy
And, remember guys, we might need to arrange an accident for a certain gaius
[x] Plan Golden Mean
-[x] Eclecticism
-[x] Broad-Striped Tribune
-[x] The Aristocracy
