Replacing the Zippo

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[x]Should I run any plans by you, if they seem dangerous?

Honestly, I don't have much else. Xander is the princess in this episode, waiting to be rescued. Drusilla has plans for Xander, and reacting beyond the moment depends on what those plans entail.

Edit:
[X] Be agreeable while looking for any opportunities to signal your friends UNLESS being agreeable puts your friends in more danger.
This works for me
 
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I keep thinking that I should come up with a plan for this vote, and then I forget. I guess we should generally aim for Xander surviving as long as it doesn't screw over his friends.

[X] Be agreeable while looking for any opportunities to signal your friends UNLESS being agreeable puts your friends in more danger.
 
[X] Plan Diet-Oracle
-[X] Attempt your best to sound somewhat prophetic, stuff akin to "how the Poet Prattles" when referring to Spike, or "what does the Sister Seek" in reference to Drusilla. Do not be direct with your knowledge in any case, neither lie nor tell the real truth, let them make the assumptions of where your knowledge stems from. Do not go hard on it that you are only speaking in that way, sprinkle it in a touch, things you know based on their later character they may react to.
-[X] Do not stand against aiding them, but try to buy yourself a bit of time to learn what sort of aid they want and maybe get rescued in time. Deduce what she wants of you to the best of your knowledge to get out of here with the least amount of damage and the most opportunity to not be able to undo what is happening.
-[X] Your goal is to get out alive, and try and regroup with your allies properly. We do not need to be the big hero, nor a paragon of virtue as we are in a position of weakness and danger, but in the fact alone they want something of you, there is some amount of strength there even if it is most properly utilized through appearing weak and pliable.

Basically try to be a bit Drusilla to her, for Vampires they are bit more Human than many others, but also probably the two most dangerous vampires we're going to deal with other than maybe Angelus. I considered trying to lead them to Wolfram + Hart for potentially getting Darla back and thus away for now, but that is probably too much, or offering Angel's blood for Drusilla's recovery, but I feel listening to what she wants is way better than trying to change their goals in our current position.

We do not know if we're going to be rescued or released so frankly living is the most important step, I even considered specifically requesting to not be turned, but then should we betray them (which is quite likely to occur) I'd be concerned they would turn against us a bit.

Also if we do have allies with us, I think using some Drusilla speak could actually be helpful for us in our warnings being treated a bit more reasonably if they begin to suspect some sort of latent prophetic vision within ourselves. Yes its a lie, but its more reasonable than the truth.
 
Vote closed New
Scheduled vote count started by Blacksheep on Feb 22, 2025 at 4:57 PM, finished with 8 posts and 3 votes.

  • [X] Be agreeable while looking for any opportunities to signal your friends UNLESS being agreeable puts your friends in more danger.
    [x]Should I run any plans by you, if they seem dangerous?
    [X] Plan Diet-Oracle
    -[X] Attempt your best to sound somewhat prophetic, stuff akin to "how the Poet Prattles" when referring to Spike, or "what does the Sister Seek" in reference to Drusilla. Do not be direct with your knowledge in any case, neither lie nor tell the real truth, let them make the assumptions of where your knowledge stems from. Do not go hard on it that you are only speaking in that way, sprinkle it in a touch, things you know based on their later character they may react to.
    -[X] Do not stand against aiding them, but try to buy yourself a bit of time to learn what sort of aid they want and maybe get rescued in time. Deduce what she wants of you to the best of your knowledge to get out of here with the least amount of damage and the most opportunity to not be able to undo what is happening.
    -[X] Your goal is to get out alive, and try and regroup with your allies properly. We do not need to be the big hero, nor a paragon of virtue as we are in a position of weakness and danger, but in the fact alone they want something of you, there is some amount of strength there even if it is most properly utilized through appearing weak and pliable.
 
After Halloween New
"Okay, so what can I do for you? I'm a squishy human, I can't do that much," you babbled.

"What do you want to do with him princess?" Spike asked Drusilla lovingly.

"Ask him how to get Daddy back," Drusilla said absently. Spike grimaced but looked at you expectantly.

"You didn't have to kidnap me for that," you admitted. "He's not taking as good care of his conscience as you'd hope."

"Daddy's a bad boy," Drusilla laughed.

"And we just need to sit pretty and wait for it?" Spike grinned. "And what about my love's health? How do I fix that?"

"I don't know," you admit. "I know it's something to do with Sire's blood, but you find a ritual for it in a book. I don't know what book."

Spike grinned. "So you're useful after all." Drusilla drifted towards you and you shuddered as her lips brushed over your neck. "I can get you something better than a twig like him, love." She turned and drifted back to him shifting to watch something no one else saw. "Your vision's pretty clear, pet. Thanks for the advice." Spike patted your cheek and stood up.

"No one is coming for him," Drusilla said dreamily.

"Good," Spike said with a grin. He gave Drusilla a kiss that made her giggle in delight and headed out. Drusilla continued to watch nothing.

You were tied up for far too long. Spike came back with a girl and you watched Drusilla drain her even as she fought and struggled until she was limp and lifeless, brown eyes still staring at you with fear. The sun rose and Drusilla and Spike were far too happy to have sex only a few feet away from where you were sat. You learned far too much about the pair's kinks as they played. That might have been the most horrifying part of the whole experience, honestly. They seemed mostly happy to ignore you now that you'd given them some answers.

You jerked in shock when something touched you. You looked around wildly, but saw nothing there even as the ropes around you were untied. It took too long for it to click. "Marcie," you whispered.

"Come on, let's go," she whispered back. You followed after her, slipping out of the building and into the sun. You took a deep breath basking in the warmth that meant you were safe.

"How did you find me?"

"The group's been hitting every vampire nest we could find," Marcie replied. "It was luck I was the one to find you."

"The pair are freaky, I am so glad to be out of there before they started another sex marathon."

Getting reunited with everyone meant Willow crying on you. You were doing your best to push down on what happened and not think too much about it. What could Spike and Drusilla really do with what you'd told them? And...should you try to tell them?

[ ]Admit to knowing things
[ ]Say honestly what happened with Spike and Drusilla, but dance around what you know
[ ]Suppress what happened
[ ]Write-in
 
Xander is alive! Yay! And Spike and Druscilla know that he can see at least some of the future. :o What are the chances that they'll keep quiet about that?

I think that we need to tell the others something, but I don't really want to tell them about "Xander's" previous life or about replacing the original Xander. We could tell them that Xander had a long, one-time vision of the future, but then we'd have to justify why we never mentioned it before.
 
I mean previously we've explained to Marcie that we have strange dreams about some things, mostly about her. I feel continuing that lie is much more useful than coming properly clean. Also may be a fair explanation on why we kinda pushed the costumes we did on our friends.

Angel needs to know that Drusilla will be wanting his blood if literally nothing else. However, we know their home now... we could try and make some molotov's....

Also hey Marcie has now saved us, saving each other in a manner is now equalized, re-raising my shipping interest there.

[X] "Admit" to be having some strange dreams about things that sometimes seem to happen, almost warnings of the future. Explain that the crazy female vampire seemed to know about them and wanted to know things about Angel, explain you didn't have much of any visions on him, but you think they may now be after him.
 
[X] "Admit" to be having some strange dreams about things that sometimes seem to happen, almost warnings of the future. Explain that the crazy female vampire seemed to know about them and wanted to know things about Angel, explain you didn't have much of any visions on him, but you think they may now be after him.
I think we really need to emphasize that the "dreams" aren't particularly reliable. The reason I mentioned a one-time vision was because everything has been thrown off the canon rails, and Xander isn't getting any new information. If someone asks us whether we had any new dream about an upcoming event & we tell them what happened in canon, it'll look strange if changes we made earlier aren't reflected in the dreams. For example, Marcie isn't going to be included in any "dreams" we describe to the others.
 
I think we really need to emphasize that the "dreams" aren't particularly reliable. The reason I mentioned a one-time vision was because everything has been thrown off the canon rails, and Xander isn't getting any new information. If someone asks us whether we had any new dream about an upcoming event & we tell them what happened in canon, it'll look strange if changes we made earlier aren't reflected in the dreams. For example, Marcie isn't going to be included in any "dreams" we describe to the others.

Its why I specified "sometimes seem to happen." Being upfront with the unreliable nature of our information. However we mostly just have major plot points really. Like we know the Mayor is already preparing for the ascension even though other things may not go down.
 
[X] "Admit" to be having some strange dreams about things that sometimes seem to happen, almost warnings of the future. Explain that the crazy female vampire seemed to know about them and wanted to know things about Angel, explain you didn't have much of any visions on him, but you think they may now be after him.
I need to go to bed soon, but I'm torn between voting for this and trying to make my own vote that emphasizes that the dream/vision happened only once so it didn't take into account any changes Xander made. However, every time I try to come up with my own vote, I run into the same problem that the above vote has: Why didn't Xander ever tell them what was going on?

For example, Xander's "dream" is a great reason for why Xander was trying to push those costumes. However, it's not a good reason for why Xander didn't tell them that there was a strong possibility that they would become their costumes. If they had known, Buffy and Willow probably wouldn't have worn costumes at all. The last we saw of Witch Willow, she was quite happily blasting people with her magic so I'm not sure how traumatized she is over her actions right now.
 
To err is human. Original Xander messed up with his friends in a variety of ways.

And I prefer we explicitly don't leave it as a one-time thing, because then not revealing whatever we do "remember" of the one time dream is significantly worse than "occasionally" having a prophetic dream. It gives us a bit more room to have general insights, and not having to write out the plot of the show for everyone outright. The reason we didn't necessarily share it is because its not often or always accurate, it also kinda reinforces our various methods of information gathering, as its us trying to confirm what is "cheese-man" nonsense from what is useful in our "dreams."
 
To err is human. Original Xander messed up with his friends in a variety of ways.

And I prefer we explicitly don't leave it as a one-time thing, because then not revealing whatever we do "remember" of the one time dream is significantly worse than "occasionally" having a prophetic dream. It gives us a bit more room to have general insights, and not having to write out the plot of the show for everyone outright. The reason we didn't necessarily share it is because its not often or always accurate, it also kinda reinforces our various methods of information gathering, as its us trying to confirm what is "cheese-man" nonsense from what is useful in our "dreams."
Maybe we should emphasize that the "dreams" seem to be only a singular version of the future that isn't affected by any changes we made in "real life"?

Also, as I was getting ready for bed, I realized that Xander should explain why he didn't tell the others with a couple of reasons from why we voters didn't tell the others. First, Buffy and Giles didn't know Xander in the beginning and had no reason to trust any "dreams" he told them about.

Second, the knowledge is of a singular timeline so the more changes Xander makes, the less useful the knowledge from the dreams is. Just having the dreams changed Xander from his "dream" self, and telling everyone what MIGHT happen would have made everyone else act differently too. That could be dangerous if everyone prepared for one danger and then was completely taken off guard by an unforeseen danger. Things haven't really strayed too far from the dreams until now, and while he could tell the others about his visions in the future, they're highly unlikely to occur the same way now.

Xander should also emphasize that he did his best to avert the worst events from the dreams, but he was limited by being a regular human teenager. His attempt to save Jesse from becoming a vampire just resulted in the vampires killing Jesse even earlier. Wearing a mask to school to block the teacher mantis's pheromones worked but made Buffy and Willow take him less seriously. He's doing his best, but the visions don't grant him perfect knowledge or control over how real life goes.

Ok, I really need to go to bed now. It's pretty late over here. I'll try to vote tomorrow.
 
Ok, I finally have time to try to come up with a vote. I'll actually try to come up with two votes - one for saying that Xander had a single, long vision and the other for saying that Xander keeps getting new visions. The downside of the first option is that the others are likely to want to know all of the details of the long vision right then while the second option's downside is that we have to keep choosing over and over again what and when to tell the others. I prefer the first option because I like being as honest as we can while the second option feels vaguely manipulative to me.

[X] Admit to having what seems to have been an extremely long vision of a possible future right before meeting Buffy. The vision covered several years, but it had limited information and time skips. Honestly, it felt a lot like watching a tv show instead of living an alternate life. Druscilla seemed to know about the vision somehow and had a couple of questions about Angel and herself.
-[X] Before anyone gets upset about you not mentioning the vision before, you'd like to emphasize a couple of things. First, you had the vision RIGHT BEFORE meeting Buffy. You hadn't known about the supernatural beforehand, and Buffy and Giles would have had no reason to believe you if you had told them you had a vision about them in the beginning. While you know that Willow would have believed you, you also know that she's terrible at keeping secrets, and you didn't want to interfere with Willow and Buffy's friendship.
-[X] Second, this vision was only of ONE POSSIBLE FUTURE. Any changes from that future made the vision less reliable, and even you knowing about that future meant that you weren't the exact same person who lived that future. Telling everyone about the vision would have just made the vision even less reliable, and you had worried about getting everyone focused on a specific danger, only to be blindsided by a danger that hadn't appeared in the vision. That's exactly what had happened to you last night.
-[X] Finally, you'd like to point out that you did try to use the vision to help avert the worst things you saw. Unfortunately, you're a regular human teenager, and knowing about possible bad outcomes didn't always mean it was possible to prevent them. The first major thing you tried to change was to save Jesse from becoming a vampire, and instead, you just pushed the vampires into killing him faster.
--[X] While you can tell everyone all about the vision now that things are really off the rails, you'd like everyone to consider whether they really want to know all of the "gory" details. After all, events aren't likely to occur the same way that they did in the vision, and they've all lived different lives than the versions of them in the vision. Do they really want to focus on what might have been if everything had happened in a very specific way?

That's a pretty long vote, and I'm sure that it could be worded better, but I don't have a lot of time tonight. Here's the version for if we want to say that we're having a series of visions.

[X] Admit to having a series of dreams of a possible future, starting right before meeting Buffy. The dreams seemed to show upcoming dangers, but they also were limited to one timeline that was not affected by anything you did in reaction to those dreams. Druscilla seemed to know about the dreams somehow and had a couple of questions about Angel and herself.
-[X] Before anyone gets upset about you not mentioning the dreams before, you'd like to emphasize a couple of things. First, you had the first dream RIGHT BEFORE meeting Buffy. You hadn't known about the supernatural beforehand, and Buffy and Giles would have had no reason to believe you if you had told them you had a dream about them in the beginning. While you know that Willow would have believed you, you also know that she's terrible at keeping secrets, and you didn't want to interfere with Willow and Buffy's friendship.
-[X] Second, these dreams are only of ONE POSSIBLE FUTURE. Any changes from that future made the dreams less reliable, and even you knowing about that future meant that you weren't the exact same person who lived that future. Telling everyone about the dreams would have just made them even less reliable, and you had worried about getting everyone focused on a specific danger, only to be blindsided by a danger that hadn't appeared in the dreams. That's exactly what had happened to you last night.
-[X] Finally, you'd like to point out that you did try to use the dreams to help avert the worst things you saw. Unfortunately, you're a regular human teenager, and knowing about possible bad outcomes didn't always mean it was possible to prevent them. The first major thing you tried to change was to save Jesse from becoming a vampire, and instead, you just pushed the vampires into killing him faster.
--[X] While you can tell everyone all about the dreams now that things are really off the rails, you'd like everyone to consider whether they really want to know all of the "gory" details. After all, events aren't likely to occur the same way that they did in the dreams, and they've all lived different lives than the versions of them in the dreams. Do they really want to focus on what might have been if everything had happened in a very specific way?
 
I feel having such a long response and counter-arguments is much more suspicious and less trustworthy. I honestly think if your going that hard on it just do the full come clean "I've replaced Xander"

I really don't get the trepidation around not calling it a more consistent thing? Even as things begin to get more off-script we still know the basic show-notes. There are things that are unlikely to be butterflied away:
A Couple Monster of the Weeks
Additional Slayer (Kendra or other?)
Wolf Oz (Still eagerly waiting for Oz)
The Mayor's Ascension Plans
The Existence of the Initiative (I'd not be surprised for Adam to not exist because that wasn't even the show's initial preference)
Dawn ( <3 )
That there may be a possible connection between Glory and Ben.
Maybe being able to save Joyce? But this one may literally be impossible.
 
I feel having such a long response and counter-arguments is much more suspicious and less trustworthy. I honestly think if your going that hard on it just do the full come clean "I've replaced Xander"

I really don't get the trepidation around not calling it a more consistent thing?
The others probably aren't going to trust Xander very much either way right now. After all, Xander had knowledge of the future and didn't tell them! In fact, he lied and manipulated them. I'm hoping that if we give our reasons for doing so, then Giles, Marcie, and Angel will still talk to us. Buffy's going to react badly no matter what, and Willow will probably be hurt and pull away to hang out with Buffy.

We just got blindsided because we were relying on canon and didn't suspect things would go off-script. I'm worried about the others doing the same if they know the full details. Also, there's some things from the tv show that are unflattering to various characters that they're probably better off not knowing. I don't want to keep lying to the others about what exactly happened in the "vision" because that feels like doubling down on manipulation so I want to give them fair warning that they might not want to know.

Ideally, the others will decide that only one or two people (Giles and either Marcie or Angel) will hear the full details of the alternate future, and then they'll try to figure what's unlikely to change.
 
Just found this, enjoying it so far.

[X] Describe what you have seen as dreams of other choices. Try and use multiverse theory (something common enough in comics) to describe what you see as a potential outcome, but one that will not happen the exact same due to the very fact you know of it. You are not the same Xander as your experience shapes who you are, just as Willow and Buffy are not the same Willow and Buffy from a week ago. Maybe something about the Hellmouth making the barriers between worlds thinner did something, but nothing you can say for sure.
 
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